Best of Toronto
The Best Movers in Toronto
The best movers in Toronto is a list that everyone might need to refer to at some point. Moving is inevitable for most of us, and save a crew of willing friends easily bribed by beer, or some random strangers on Craigslist, chances are a moving company is going to play a part in the experience.
The problem, and this has been well documented, is that moving companies can be as sketchy as they come. There are countless stories of moves gone bad. Take this one, for instance, where a moving company called Executive Movers allegedly tricked a customer into forking over a $300 deposit, only to demand an even steeper payment once their goods were loaded onto the truck.
It's more common than you might think. Earlier this year the Toronto Star ran an investigative story in which they alleged two moving companies - Desi and Indo-Pak Movers - engaged in a similar practice.
Years ago, Joey DeVilla published a widely read post to his site documenting a call he received from Quick Boys Movers complaining about a comment a reader posted to his site. It's still a great read even four years later and by the looks of things Quick Boys has either gone out of business or changed their name.
Meanwhile, the Canadian government has published a couple of documents - The Good Practice Guidelines for Canadian Movers and The Consumer Checklist for Choosing a Moving Company. If you're planning to ask a prospective moving company 20 plus questions, the latter document provides a good checklist of what to think about.
For starters though, it's worth noting a few things that are common practice with Toronto moving companies.
- Rates vary by day of the month and week: Most Toronto moving companies charge a different rate depending on the day of the month you want to move. Since most people want to move at the end or the beginning of the month, they'll charge more for this privilege. So if you can somehow swing a move in the middle of the month (and ideally a weekday, not weekend) you'll save some dollars. Some Toronto moving companies even charge more the closer you book to your moving date, so it pays to plan ahead.
- Moving companies charge you for their travel time: Most (but not all) Toronto moving companies will charge you for the time it takes them to get from their warehouse to your home and from your new home back to their warehouse again. So don't assume the clock starts and stops when the movers arrive and then unload your last piece of furniture. You'll generally pay for an extra 1 to 1.5 hours in travel time. Costs will escalate further if you're moving to or from the suburbs.
- Insurance is worthless: Moving companies generally quote rates that include what's called standard liability insurance. Basically, if something breaks you can get it replaced at a value of 60 cents a pound PLUS a deductible. In practice, you get nothing close to what your scratched, damaged or broken possession is worth. Have a $4,000, 200 pound designer sofa that got ripped and soiled? At 60 cents a pound the most insurance will cover is $120. At that kind of payback it's worth thinking of upgrading to a declared value or full replacement option. The standard cost would be a payment of $125 for $25,000 in coverage, minus a $300 deductible. Worth noting is that many Toronto moving companies will tell you that Ikea furniture, glass and anything they didn't pack isn't covered by insurance.
And with that as a primer on moving in Toronto, here's a list of the 7 best movers in Toronto. I'm not promising these are the best moving companies in Toronto, but they've all been recommended by readers of this site; and at the very least should be a good starting point to finding a Toronto mover that best meets your needs.
Despite their name, El Cheapo isn't the cheapest option around. If moving on non peak days of the month, 2 movers and van will cost $130 for the first hour and $37.50 for each subsequent half hour. To get things moving a bit faster you can add an extra guy for an additional $40 for the first hour and $10 for each subsequent half hour. During peak periods (end of month), rates go up to $150 for the first hour....but I was told that as time slots get booked up rates will go up as well and could go as high as $190 for the first hour and $47.50 for each subsequent half hour.
The good news is that they only charge for the time between when they show up and when they finish the job, so you're not paying extra for the travel time from their warehouse. They have seven trucks (cube vans, actually) and some trucks might do up to 3 jobs a day. The guy on the phone told me "you want to be the first job of the day". He also encouraged me to check out HomeStars which is peppered with favourable reviews.
Note: if you have more stuff than what would fit in a cube van don't go with El Cheapo as then you'll need to pay for them to make more than one trip.
Joe the Mover doesn't have a web site but what he does have is six trucks and rates that change from weekdays to weekends. Weekday rates between the 3rd and 27th of the month are $65 an hour for 2 men and 1 truck. Weekend and end of the month rates are $85 an hour. An extra hour is billed automatically for gas and travel time from their warehouse. In other words, if the job takes 5 hours from when they arrive to when they complete the job you pay for 6 hours.
Your Friend with a Cube Van is probably the smallest operator on this list. They have two 16 foot cube vans and sometimes they use both of them for the same job. So, if you really want to use these guys I'd suggest booking as far in advance as possible.
Rates? Not too friendly. For a regular non-peak job (ie. not the first or last two days of a month) they will send 2 movers and one truck and charge $150 for the first hour and $75 for each subsequent hour. A peak job will cost $170 and $85. Add an extra mover and the rates go up even higher to $205 for the first hour and $120 for each additional hour.
The good news is that there's no one hour surcharge. The clock starts at arrival and ends when the movers have finished unloading the truck at the destination. They also offer free in-home estimates where they'll tell you things like how much time they expect the job to take and whether everything will fit in to the truck in one trip.
Tender Touch has operations across Canada (Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary) and are the largest moving company on this list. In Toronto they usually have 8-12 trucks available on a given day which range from a two bedroom apartment friendly 24 footer to a Bridle Path estate worthy tractor trailer.
Aside from prices, what separates these guys from the other movers is the extent to which they'll help you pack your stuff. They actually recommend that their movers pack all the clothes into wardrobe boxes (4 are provided free of charge) and will also gladly shrink wrap your sofa (2 free shrink wraps. $5 for each additional shrink wrap) and wrap up two mattresses.
Like all movers, they have different rates depending on the day of the month. From the 4th to 25th of the month they charge a flat rate of $104 an hour + GST + a $25 fuel surcharge. Otherwise the rate is $114 an hour. They'll also charge an extra 1.5 hours for travel time before arrival and after unload so if the move actually takes 6.5 hours you end up paying for 8.
Dino's Movers was probably the easier to get a quote from over the phone. Unlike every other mover on this list, they offered me a flat rate of $90 an hour regardless of the day of the month. That's for 3 movers and one truck. A fourth mover bumps the price up by $25 an hour, still a cheaper rate than many of the other movers.
Where they likely fall a bit short if the lack of packing help and protection that a mover like Tender Touch provides. They'll happily wrap some big items in blankets but for anything else (wardrobe boxes, bubble wrap etc.) expect to pay extra. They also charge an extra hour ($90) for travel time from their location. So, again, if the move takes 5 hours you end up paying for 6.
G&S Moving and Storage are based in Scarborough so depending on where you're moving from and to it may be costly to use them. They charge a flat rate of $125 an hour for three guys and a 30 foot truck but they'll also bill you for the travel time to and from their warehouse (usually about 45 minutes each way I was told). They don't charge premiums/discounts based on day of the month and a fourth mover can be added for an extra $25 an hour.
Like Tender Touch, they'll do their best to make sure everything gets moved scratch free. They provide free wardrobe and picture containers, pad wrap and shrink wrap as well as mattress covers.
Energy Crew does away with a lot of the pricing practices in the moving industry that everyone loves to hate. They charge a flat rate of $120 for the first hour and $37.50 for each additional half hour. This gets you 3 movers and a 24 foot truck. An extra mover can be thrown into the mix for only an additional $10 an hour.
The small catch is that they charge in half hour increments when most moving companies charge in quarter hour increments. So, if the move takes 5 hour and 15 minutes you pay for 5 and a half hours. But, and this is a difference maker, Energy Crew does not charge for travel time between their warehouse and your home and they don't add a fuel surcharge.
Rent a Son used to be someone you'd call for help with heavy lifting. Now, the company has grown up and boasts 40 movers, 8 trucks and a 25,000 square foot warehouse.
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Cheap, professional, on-time and interesting movers to boot.
I know i am lame, but i don't want to live in a shoe box condo or some fucking slum house next to a booze can at Jane and St Clair.
My advice: make sure you research each company you're considering as thoroughly as possible. The movers we ended up using (who actually showed up) were members of the Better Business Bureau. That made us feel a bit better about hiring them, anyway.
(The URL I've used today is a direct link to my ridiculously long blog post about our moving day.)
The guys were professional, wrapped everything as stated and were real work horses. I was sick as a dog on my moving day and they took everything I asked with no complaints (I had a massive 500lb or so BBQ pit to move that they partially disassembled to get it up the ramp onto the truck).
The quote was pretty accurate based on the estimated time, they did have extra charges for tape and shrink wrap that they didn't mention beforehand. Overall I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
Local movers are less likely to screw you than long-distance movers, but it can still happen. The best way to pick a mover is through personal recommendation of a friend that has used them to move. Quoted rates are pretty much the least important part of the evaluation of a moving company.
The above list is like a list of the "Best Pizza in Toronto" compiled by reading the menus of restaurants but not consuming their pizza. Worthless.
This person hung up on me repeatedly when I called to check the status of the move, as the movers were late. Then he ignored my phone calls completely until I had my boyfriend call. He continually lied to both of us for 5.5 hours - that is how late the movers were getting to my apartment. I literally sat on my packed boxes for that time, staring at the wall with nothing to do as my whole life was boxed up around me. He told me all kinds of BS, like that they were around the corner and would be there in 5 minutes, then, that they are stuck in traffic, then he ignored my calls and voicemail, then he said he would call and check where they are and call me back - which never happened, then he said the moving truck was in an accident and had to sort out insurance and take it to an autobody shop!
When the movers called me at 7:30 pm (my move was scheduled for 2pm) they told me their boss called in my move 15 minutes earlier, and that they were at an address at Bathurst and Eglinton - I was living at Bathurst and Dundas. So they had to travel another 20 mins to my place. They had no idea that I had been waiting so long at all.
When they arrived, they told me all kinds of stories about their boss. Such as, he is as slimy as they come, they don't know his real name - he uses Logan, George and sometimes even the movers' names over the phone, that he tells people one price for the move, then demands more or else they don't move you or load your stuff in, then demand more money, he uses totally illegal contracts and forces you to sign it or else they are not supposed to move you, the he lies to the movers themselves and says clients have not paid him, so in turn, the movers do not get paid (the client did pay, the mover in question called the client and she said she paid weeks ago), he doesn't have an office or at least they do not know where it is - he pays them cash when they drop off the moving trucks at a desolate, unpopulated area of the city, it goes on and on.
Do not deal with this guy! He is a slimy, reproachable lying sack of sh*t, who rips off anyone he can, including his own employees.
The movers themselves were awesome though, they did not make me sign the dubious contract and moved me for the price I was promised. They were friendly, talkative and did not break or damage anything. Genuinely nice guys who have a shitty boss. When I asked them why they work for a guy they freely admitted hating, they both said "we make great money, when he pays us".
I'm sure this guy changes his email address frequently, but the last one I had was gtamovers@hotmail.com. Should have been a giant red flag that it is a hotmail address, but we all make mistakes.
However, extortionate practices are not limited to outfits like Desi -- if you read my blog post, I tell about my experiences with North American Van Lines, where their affiliate did essentially the same thing, to the tune of more than $US800 above the quoted price.
just amazing! not only did they do my last moving job in less than half the quoted time, in the pouring rain, it was so cheap! and zaid is awesome (just read the "about us").
BUT...I did find a gem- they are called Wild West Productions and I used them 2 times. SUPER nice guys, decent prices, NO hidden costs, but above all they are reliable and down to earth people. They advertise in NOW sometimes- if you see it, cut it out of the paper and keep it.
I found out after that they are also a part of Mayflower, which means they are very experienced and reputable
When I think Movers, I think Hudson Movers, Tippet Richardson etc.
Don't get me wrong, I've used "economic" movers in the past and have had some great experiences, but then again I moved most of the stuff myself and they never lay down mats on the floor or protect the door jams. It's basically paying some friends to help you.
This post should be re-titled to "Best Economic Movers" or "Best cube van movers"
Stay away from Miracle Movers though- I had to use them when El Cheapo was booked. I confirmed there was no extra charge for stairs- twice- only to be told while they were moving that it was an extra $100 cash for stairs. After contacting the office ot complain, the receptionist told me that it was "up to the movers" to decide if they wanted to charge more based on their effort. I talked them down to $40 and that was their tip as far as i was concerned, especially after they dumped all of my stuff in a pile in the living room.
2 thumbs up.
1) My father hired movers he found in a Chinese newspaper. They were ridiculously cheap, but they were SLOW. It ended up being a 6+ hour job, when it should have taken half that time. Didn't really end up saving much money in the end.
2) Hired another Chinese company - they gouged the shit out of my furniture, but I didn't realize this until after they left.
3) Hired "2 Small Men With Big Hearts". Office lady who I booked with lied to me, as she said their movers had "shoulder dollys" to help move heavy things up stairs (this was important to me, I was moving into a 5-storey walk-up with no elevators.) The movers told me that they had no such thing. The movers themselves were two young guys barely out of their teens, and a skinny grizzled old guy who looked about 65. They took a lunch break during the move, even after I offered to buy it for them - left me sitting on the porch for an hour, while they took off with the truck FULL OF MY STUFF and went to McD's. They ended up taking FOREVER to move, and started getting careless with my belongings (leaving my rolled-up rug lying on the street gutter.) Exasperated, I started moving my own shit, as they sat in the truck winded and tired. After the move was finished, I realized that a large part of my bed was missing, but they blamed me for not packing it properly. Considering that the old guy LOST THE KEYS to their truck after the move was finished (and had to sit and wait in front of my building for an extra 3 hours), I'm more inclined to believe that it was THEIR fault.
4) Hired El Cheapo last year, and they were absolutely fantastic. Hired 3 movers again, and they were very efficient, professional, and super-duper nice guys. I bought them water, coffee and croissants (it was early morning) and they were positively giddy over it. I would recommend them to anybody.
The two guys (hard working and hated their boss) that were working were good, but one dropped something (can't say what or Monty will know who I am and likely come after me) that was worth about $300, then Monty tells me it is OK and that is will still work, may I add it was in pieces)
We get to the new place, each box was labeled as to what room it is to go into. They simply just drop everything in the living room, upside down sideways any which way they can.
These guys are the biggest rip off. Monty uses his enormous size to intimidate you, and when it is the last day of the month what choice do you have??
Actually, I'm going to go ahead and guess that they're not that good. Because a) good companies usually don't resort to spamming comment threads and b) good companies usually aren't run by morons. I mean, really, if you're going to do some spamming, don't do it under your real name. Go ahead and google "Frank Sinopoli toronto". The first hit is a LinkedIn profile:
"Frank Sinopoli
CEO at Fransin Inc.
Transportation/Trucking/Railroad | Toronto, Canada Area
Current: CEO at Fransin Inc., Vice-President & Co-Owner at Ranger Moving Systems Inc."
Brilliant job there, Frank. The moral of the story: when it comes to this kind of subject, never trust anonymous comments. And sometimes, don't trust nonymous ones either.
anyways Mr.Wonderful, I am actually Franks Uncle (also Frank Sinopoli).......And that doesnt change their service.
Either way, I wouldn't listen to this no life clown nor i would listen to Frank......I would simply make my own judgements, as everyone should do when choosing a moving company, just pick a well known one and have them guarantee your price within 10%!
problem solved!
Nick - get a life
Frank - get a life
With that said, there are many good companies out there. Of course the good ones are going to more expensive than your average two pot-heads and rusted pick-up. Reason for this is the insurance and other fees they have to pay for.
Jae Burnham, Owner
U-Save Moving
Well, if this is true, then I'm sorry for disparaging Nephew Frank. But you've already been dishonest once in this thread so I'm not about to take your word at face value.
"wow! this nick guy seems to have a lot of time on his hands.....seems like just a disgruntled customer of Ranger Movings past, because I just tried to search that name and got a poker star!"
Yeah, causing googling two names takes a lot of time. Also, I said to google the name plus "toronto". If you don't add the "toronto", you have to look a little farther down the page. I'm not sure what your point is either way.
Yes, maybe I'm a disgruntled customer (who somehow forced one of the Frank Sinopolis to post fake raves about their service). Hell, maybe I run a competing company. My point still stands though.
Friends who've used Tippet Richardson have all been very, very happy. It's expensive as hell, but they try to keep the brand clean and don't screw you anymore than they quote you. If you're moving in the city and have more than a 1 bedroom apartment, I'd use them. Once you're buying and not renting, you can roll the moving costs into your mortgage and it's just another transaction cost of 0.5-1% of the value of your residence.
http://homestars.com/on/toronto/moving-storage
Did you pay him the extra money?!! We do not want to period. Any advice here people?!! PLEASE.
They were incredibly slow (painfully slow) and complained the whole time. Actually, by complaining, I mean that the on guy screamed and shouted and swore when he lifted anything heavy (kind of part of the job description) and repeatedly smashed my furniture into the wall when frustrated. Both of my dressers had to be MacGyvered to even stand up. Apparently they had a bad move right before they got to me, but it's not like it has anything to do with me and complaining to me is not professional.
The one guy was ancient and the other guy was the one w/ anger-mgmt issues. I was very uncomfortable but pretended this dude was normal. When I carried some easy stuff in, the one guy actually got sarcastic with me, as in "oh, watch yourself with that heavy stuff". Seriously? I hired you for a reason, and I'm seriously asthmatic and wheezing!
Anyway, I suppose El Cheapo are hit and miss. Probably great if you get them first thing and "pull your own weight" with the move.
It's not worth it for me to use them again. Awkward situations are bad enough, but even more so when they last twice as long as they should.
we all love them, had smooth moves, no hidden costs, friendly movers. attention to detail. Responsive staff.
I won't use any other movers again!
D.
www.mtrmovers.ca
M.M.
(full disclosure - I work there, so I'm finding this thread interesting to follow)
http://homestars.com/companies/2777123-complete-movers?service_area=1829541
Surprised there wasn't a review up already.
We payed a little more as our main concern was proper packing of EVERYTHING and we had a lot. iMove arranged us free storage with a local facility for a month and the movers knew what they were doing. We did end up with a single cracked china piece from my antique collection and I was impressed when the claims person arrived with exact same piece 20 days later (we did not file any claim).
All in all, we were very pleased with the service.
Had them promise to use a 2.5 hour move, they said fine. Day *before* our move in the evening, said they do a 4 hour minimum. We told them that's not what we were promised and that they should honor their word, it's a verbal contract. Women said tough luck, refused to talk with us anymore and hung up the phone.
They are shaddy! Don't use them.
Had them promise to use a 2.5 hour move, they said fine. Day *before* our move in the evening, said they do a 4 hour minimum. We told them that's not what we were promised and that they should honor their word, it's a verbal contract. Women said tough luck, refused to talk with us anymore and hung up the phone.
They are shaddy! Don't use them.
They wrapped all my furniture in blankets, used runners on my carpets and hardwood floors, they had all kinds of equipment which is something I'm not used to seeing with other movers that I have used in the past. They also provided wardrobe boxes for me to use for the day.
I have moved a lot in my life and I can without any hesitations or doubts recommend Dino's Movers to anyone that is looking for a no B.S moving company in Toronto.
You can reach them at 416-255-1200 or www.dinosmovers.ca
www.ammoving.ca
best of luck
Good luck
I'm glad everything worked out for you with your move. I don't think $60 is very expensive at all.
I have to say you are very determined to post your message, 4 posts in a row, very ambitious indeed. To me your post(s) looks more like an advertisement, possibly because you own the company.
If your intentions here are to promote A&M Moving, you should be ashamed. If not my bad.
Best of luck anyway,
Eric
Careful Movers out of Toronto. They are located at 140 Milner Ave unit #4 in Toronto they're phone number is 416-720-6111 and they're website is http://moverstoronto.net
I don;t know how many of these posts are from the owners but I am not I am the real deal as far as customers go. You can take my advise or leave it but they were a top notch moving service
Toll free 1-866-762-0234 .
http://metropacificmoving .com/
Despite their good and friendly helpers l was charged one free that l do not really think l was suppose to pay for l was charge a service free . Although their customer service Representative told about the service fee when l booked with them l just want to know if it fair to be charged a service fee. Despite that thumbs up to Metro Pacific Movers there a good moving company ( but service fee?
We recently had to move from a 4 bedroom house and needed movers. We searched the internet and found a company called Agility Moving & Storage. We couldnt find a single bad review on them, so we decided to call and get more info. We spoke with a reresentative named Shelly, she was very polite, informative and helpful. We decided to hire them for our move.
Thy showed up on time, the movers were very polite and very learned of moving. They were very careful of my belongings ( I liked how they used floor runners to protect my carpet and furniture pads to protect my furniture). They completed the job in less time then i thought it would take. When it came time to pay the bill, there were no hidden fees and no problems. Because they came in under budget I gave them a nice tip. These guys are the Best Movers in Toronto. Give em a call at 416-654-5029 and look em up online.
I'm dependable mover and this is my website address:
www.zaidmoving.weebly.com
lots of reviews there
I own a moving company with over 80 staff (I won't mention the name, I don't spam so I threw up a popular review site) in Vancouver, BC.
If you want a pro mover, there is many things you can do to avoid false posts on some boards like this. Here's a giant list off the top of my head of things I would do knowing what I know about this industry...
1. How long has the company been in busines
2. How is there BBB rating (free online)
3. Do they have an office/warehouse you can physically visit?
4. Are they helpful over the phone?
5. Do they offer free in home estimates? (always meet your mover)
6. Will they guarantee your move not to exceed 10%
7. Do they have newer clean trucks? If they don't care about their own equipment....(you get the idea)
8. Do they buy back moving cartons when you're done?
9. Do they train their staff or hire "ëxperienced" staff?
10. Google the moving company name + reviews
11. check their homestars rating
12. Drive to their location at 7:45AM and watch their trucks "roll out" ..do they leave on time at 8AM? Do the movers look professional and in uniform?
13. Ask for a recent reference (within 1 week) that you can call to ask how the move went. Of course they'll send you a happy customer but if youre at least you'll know if they have had a happy customer within the last 7 days lol.
14. Ask them to email you a copy of their city business licence, liability insurance, WCB report (These are free online) and a copy of their companies moving terms and conditions.
Remember, when a move goes to hell, it's usually the customers fault. WHY??? Because they just hired the 1st mover they called over the phone with no questions asked.
I have 20 years in this industry and after a customer hires a crap company they say "I can't believe that moving company is still in business!"...If everyone did 30% of my above list, THEY WOULDN'T BE! =)
Good luck out there!
i had a nice experience with right motion movers. they are really good, they knew what they were doing. they charged me 65$/hr. though it is not too costly or very cheap. it is worth of paying them. it is better to go with a small company like this. i had reserved a schedule in there website (www.rightmotion.com). there muber is 416-477-7334
i had pretty good experience with right motion movers. i had reserved a slot through their website (www.rightmotion.com
. they were punctual and professional at work. i did not loose a single item from my home. they took lot of care when i told them about my grandpa's furniture. there number is 416-477-7334. i think these is one of the best moving company in Toronto.
Living in a small town in BC, makes me think about how flexible and dynamic beings we are.
Jay
-after booking Miracle Movers I came across some negative reviews on here about them showing up late, or not showing up at all.. I started to get nervous so I called the company and asked to speak to the owner Eugene so he could put my mind at ease that none of this would happen. In speaking to Eugene he said not to worry and that the movers would show up on time with the right size truck between 8 and 9a.m. the next morning.
-The next day came and my worst nightmare came true, and instead of arriving on time they came a whopping seven hours later and arrived at 3:00 IN THE AFTERNOON!!!
-They brought a truck half the size they promised us. We have a 3 bedroom house, they sent a truck for a 2 bedroom apartment - dont believe the pictures on their website, you wont be recieving the trucks they promise you, and I guaruntee those aren't even pictures of trucks they own.
-My neighbour had to bring our remaining stuff to us the next day, 3 hours away (Cambridge all the way to Bracebridge area).
-We had to pay for the extra truck rental time the new owners of our house incurred because of the seven hour delay - $500, and they were not able to move in until the next morning
-The movers were finally done at our new home at 2 a.m. the following day
-In disputing the original bill the following day I was told by Eugene (THE OWNER OF MIRCALE MOVERS) that someone from 'Customer Service' would call me, but instead, I recieved a call from one of the movers, Dimitri, who proceeded to scream at me for 10 minutes, threaten me, and exclaim that God would harm my children if I didn't pay in full that day. He actually wished harm upon my unborn children!!! And it was at that point I called the police and they spoke to him directly, cautioning him that he could go to jail. So, what happens is that EUGENE doesn't pay his movers until they collect the total bill. He holds them accountable and then they have to threaten the customer in order to get paid by Eugene. THAT is how Mircale Movers they deal with their customers.
-Bottom line, this company is run by criminals who should be in jail for the way they mistreat their trusting customers (and their overworked and what I can only assume to be illegally employed staff for that matter). I cannot say anything else other than to STAY AWAY FROM MIRACLE MOVERS. DO NOT GO NEAR THIS COMPANY UNLESS YOU WANT TO HAVE AN EXPERIENCE LIKE THIS. They are horrible and should be put out of business for good. Do not give these criminals a dime of your money. Do not be lured by their competitive prices, they are low for a reason!!!
And Eugene, feel free to respond to this should you feel the need, but you know EXACTLY what happened. And the fact that I actually trusted your word is what sickens me the most and makes me feel so stupid. You are a horrible person who takes advantage of your trusting customers and your company will not be around much longer if I have anything to do about it.
http://homestars.com/companies/2773108-miracle-movers?service_area=1786312
I seems Eugene has a bit of a reputation.
One company suggested I book the moving services in the morning and the elevator in the afternoon. Even if we didn’t arrive until 11:30, that would leave their men idle until 1:00 and the clock ticking on my tab. El Cheapo assessed the contents I had listed and said they were absolutely confident they’d get the job done in plenty of time, so I booked them.
On the morning of moving day the movers show up and tell me that I’m getting three men for the price of two. As it turns out, I was completely moved in under two hours, with almost an hour left over on my elevator reservation.
The guys hustled the entire time. They were professional, friendly and careful with my things. When the concierge at my new building was delayed a few minutes in opening the service elevator, one of the men complained that I was paying for downtime.
The people I spoke with in the office were helpful and friendly. I will quite happily recommend them to anyone.
We called these guys because our movers never showed up.
They had a full day, but they managed to fit us in and come save us.
They showed up 20 minutes before they said they were able to get to us, and started right away.
We had heard of them from doing a little research on Google.
The crew that came were professional and friendly, even after doing a move before they came to us.
They moved us without a hitch, and the rate was reasonable especially for the service provided.
At the end of the night, there were no hidden fees and even though we had no money to give for a tip, the guys were still friendly and polite.
We will always use Agility and we will be recommending them to ANYONE moving.
These guys are the BEST movers ever.
Give them a call at 416-654-5029, you will be satisfied.
SAM
http://blog.homestars.com/archives/2010/05/21/reviews-of-the-week-dedicated-to-the-victims-of-desi-movers/
(Save yourself)
Hi I am international student for English studies in Seneca, two years before I had bad experience with ( diamond mover ), I live at college residence and moved to house because I did not had money and rented basement.
I called this thief to move my stuff which can be fit in small car’s back seat, they told me $45 hour, and did not tell me minimum four hours, I was new to Canada I do not know I have to pay 4 hours + plus travel time, arrival time, heavy books charges, and so many other charges so finally, they billed me 650,
I collected amount from my friends and paid them 450 and they left all my stuff at drive way. I had only 200 in my pocket I thought I will pay $45 to move and rest 150 was for my food for month since I paid first and last month rent, I cannot explain how much I was hurt & my feeling, Also after 3 months I received huge bill from Rogers, It is very difficult to live this country, everywhere there is catch. How much we suffer from high fees of colleges & they never also never tell book cannot be reused, everywhere money money. But off course there are few people those are pissed off like me, they helped me and I believe I also have to help them.
Finally I told my story to Landlord, she gave me reference to use next time ( Right Motion Moving guys) but it was too late to call ( Right Moving company ) recently I moved to new location as my Landlord sold home and went to condo, I used same RIGHT MOTION company, My prayers are with those kind heart guys, he charged me $80 only, it is very good company , only you have to tell them you are “International student “ I cannot tell you how much they helped me, they are friendly and very good. All international student must call this company, they were amazing and all of them were highly educated and good skilled guys, You can test their knowledge of any topic.
They work for different charity and religions organization absolutely free, it was discovered later when I found from our community group.
Why I am writing so much, because I feel we should help good people, he fixed my laptop for no charges, as I said they have huge knowledge about different area, My Landlord had Kitchen Electrical switch problem he fixed that for free, how much good we aspect someone offer more then services requested.
I wanted to write my comments in their website but they said they are working on comments sections as the website was hacked and they have to re-fix again, so that I can post my live interview, they told me web is still under construction, if so remember their website http://www.RightMotion.com
If you are student they also offer job for Flyer distribution, and pay reasonable. I can say they are like my friends now and they treat every customer like that, my landlord is so happy also, My Landlord does real estate business, both husband wife says they will never give reference to anyone, who could spoil their name, But their customer never had any problem. They always refer this moving company.
If Right Motion Owner see this post, Yes I feel my obligation to help your business grow, I have no words for thanks but if people write here why I should not write? I am sorry if you find something I wrote was not true. Infect you deserve this and should immediately open review section at your own website. Please do it soon, and tell me I will be the first one to fill form. Once again thank you so much and GodBless you guys.
Need packing services that won't break anything, and have to move this stuff into storage somewhere. House in in North Toronto, storage should be in or near Brampton where I live.
Can't do much packing or moving myself. No time, plus I had a heart attack a couple of years ago so gotta watch it. My sister lives in Ottawa and may be down on the last day, but again won't be able to do much.
We're going to hire an auction house to come in and take away the stuff we don't want, but expect lots to be left.
Any suggestions?
I’ve been using them, and recommending them for a few years. However, the begging of the month I used them and them and they have totally fallen apart. They showed up in a rental truck. One of the guys was actually very personable and seemed to know what he was doing, the other looked like he was on drugs. I watched him let go of my grandmothers’ nightstand while carrying it, totally smashing it. My brand new hardwood floors were gauged beyond belief. And virtually every piece of furniture I had was scratched. At the end of the move, after pointing out the destruction, the ‘good’ mover confided to me that they are no longer the company the once where. The owner has no part in the business. They make it a common practice to screw over all their core reliable movers, and instead hire ANYONE they can get at the end of the month in order to cut costs. Horrible business practice! Now, I would have gone out of my way to rand about them like this if this if it was an one-off event, but in the last few months nearly everyone whom I recommended them to had a similar experience. Very disappointing. And not even close to cheap!
Yeah, I had a similar experience.
Not reliable. The office guy I dealt with sounded drunk too!
What a shame!
Referal could be RealEaste Agents, Lawyers or doctors or Judges, high Rank Referals or somone who moved before. I totally do not understand this concept? Anyhow good luck and try to see if you get moved, I do not know number but website is http://www.RightMotion.com
With these folks the woman at the office went over the fees with me, and when the movers got to my place they also reviewed the fee sheet.
Here's how it went:
- Lady at the office called the day before to confirm and offer some last minute packing tips.
- Morning of the move the dispatcher called to confirm that the crew and truck had left on time.
- Crew and truck did arrive on time.
- Had the red carpets, all the wrappings for the furniture.
- The two very strong men worked well as a team.
- Arranged furniture, boxes, and helped with some last minute changes on the location of certain items.
Went very well and will probably use again.
You can probably skip the insurance to save some dollars.
I have also used Centennial movers from Cobourg for a long distance move, was going to use them for this move but they were booked solid.
Would be interested to hear other moving stories from any of these two companies.
Now if these boxes could only unpack themselves....!
I highly recommend them.
The office staff was very courteous and informative and friendly. They answered all my question and I didnt feel like they were rushing me through the booking.
The moving crew was just plain awesome. The moved our 4 bedroom home (which was quite full) in 12 hours. The had all the right equipment and didn’t damage a single thing. They were courteous to me and my wife, but also to each other, which was nice to see.
They have very reasonable rates and I have already referred them to a friend. We have found our movers for life!!!
Their contact info is as follows:
phone: 416-654-5029 website: www.agilitymovingandstorage.ca
Give them a try, you will be happy with their work.
Andrew
We had to move a 3 bedroom townhouse within Beaches and had all the packing done by our moving crew the day before. Our move took longer than expected, however, I have to be fair and say it was a really hot day, lots of stairs and most importantly there was no damage to my furniture. I've learned to budget for more and get written quotes beforehand to avoid any surprises on the day of. Ask for a free visit before you book your movers and avoid moving in the summer! My movers were great, I just hate moving, period.
They accommodated our move on short notice & made the day go very smoothly.
They weren't cheap, but were worth every penny.
They packed and unpacked the wardrobe boxes they supplied, packed/unpacked all our pictures etc., shrink-wrapped upholstered items, and protected our floors with drop cloths.
The two man team was punctual, very friendly & professional.
They worked quickly, carefully & efficiently.
Small extra charge for tape used to seal boxes.
Would use them again in a heartbeat.
6 hour minimum, 1 1/2 hour travel time added in, $114 per hour.
i took house and the closing day is 19 aug,2010 so i have to move before aug out of my condo,so i have to keep my things in a storage area then after aug19 another move to my house.
i was reading this article and i have decided to go with MTR movers , Guys it was a smooth move, i'm still in denial till now , i didnt beleive that i move that easy.
the two movers , Chalk and John they are amazing , wrapped everything professionally , they brought big boxes and fill it with all the small items that is scattered around the condo, they are really nice guys, smiling all the time, thier estimation was 4 hours , and they finished on time. no surpuises no calling 911, nothing :)
thanks John , thank Chalk , you guys made my day
i dont know how can i thank you ,
thanks alot.
they even kept most of my things wrapped in the storate area for the next move.
After seeing all of the controversy going on in the moving industry these days, my husband and I did a bunch of research to find a good and legitimate company to handle our move to London Ontario. We came across Agility on several Toronto blogs of people praising their services. We called them and spoke to their moving representative. He was very helpful, and answered all of my questions with out hesitation. He made sure to go over every detail about their services and made it clear that no monies would be accepted until after the move was complete and all items were off the truck and placed were WE wanted them. This is what sold me on them. After booking, an confirmation email was sent to me confirming the rate per hour and breakdown. The movers showed up on move day 30 minutes early, and were terrific! They moved us in under the estimated time and had a smile on their face all day. I have already recommended them to my family and would definitely use them again without hesitation. They have many pictures and reviews on their web site,
http://www.agilitymovingandstorage.ca
These guys really are the best movers in Toronto!!
Cindy
MH
Fantastic company! Their prices are reasonable, the guys they send are quick & efficient, and super-friendly. The second time I used them, they even sent an extra guy, because he was "bored and just sitting around", but they didn't charge me anything extra!
I had to have an overnight move once, where they moved me out, put my stuff in storage overnight, and moved me into my new place the next day - all they charged was an additional 1 hour for the overnight, and an additional 1 hour for the extra travel. It was something out of the ordinary for them to do, but they went out of their way to make sure it happened.
They go the extra mile, too. Making sure my shoddy box-taping was fixed so the boxes wouldn't fall apart, making little ropes out of tape to tie-up cupboards in my furniture ... just the extra little touches that make a world of difference.
I would 100% recommend them.
PS. I really don't recommend Careful Movers out of Toronto. I am sure there are some decent people at this company but that has not been our experience.
thanks
http://homestars.com/on/toronto/moving-storage
And was it Lennox who wrote the review on Careful in Calgary?
cheers
Please feel free to contact me: sugar_shae11@yahoo.com. Maybe we can compare notes re: Careful Movers.
Moving can be one of the most stressful time on average in person’s life. If especially you are moving across the Toronto city then you will be able to figure out the real stress that you might have during the moving. Dino moving company is a Toronto movers best in Canada they provide their services to both residential and commercial clients. Our team consists of highly trained labor and individuals doing and presenting the whole work for the Toronto clients. At Dino movers we will help you to answer your entire question related to residential or commercial moving in or outside the city.
Toronto movers are family owner business and their aim is too rude your cost and expenses on the whole moving process. Which in return guarantee our client’s low rate and warm and reliable service what so ever? Especially in the summer we have best summer packages available for families travelling for their summer vocations. Moving during summer when travelling to villas or other places in Toronto can be hectic without the Toronto movers. Some moving companies observe most of the insurance policies given by the insurance companies. Once you have an insurance of something that needs to be moved then it helps both movers and client in its protection. Moving a piano is one of the most desirable products for summer. Piano have lots of complicated parts in it. Piano needs some extra wrapping while moving such as piano has to have foamy cloth on it wrapped to move so it does not give any scratch to body of it and neither it.
Wild West is the best. I've used 'em 3 times and am about to use 'em a 4th. There's a reason they're still in the business.
(416) 240-7241
skeptic but i went ahead and tried it. i was surprised and impressed with the service while my whole move in toronto .I will say dino movers are the best toronto movers even though i had canceled a few times they were still very politeand ready to change the moves to my convenience. at anytime without a doubt i would use them again and refer them to my friends. Give them a call at 416-255-1200 or visit them at dinomovers.ca
skeptic but i went ahead and tried it. i was surprised and impressed with the service while my whole move in toronto .I will say dino movers are the best toronto movers even though i had canceled a few times they were still very politeand ready to change the moves to my convenience. at anytime without a doubt i would use them again and refer them to my friends. Give them a call at 416-255-1200 or visit them at dinomovers.ca
When you are looking for moving from some other country to Toronto, Then it can be a difficult decision to choose the most renowned and best Toronto movers in the city. Especially when you are living in New York, which is the best place to meet and encounter with the international people. My brother and I had lived and got all our studies from New York University and he got a Canadian wife then we thought about moving to Toronto. I am explaining the procedure that we adopted about the moving of our luggage from US to Toronto. We spent about two weeks choosing the right Toronto movers because that is always very important for the place you are moving for the first time and do not know much about the places and companies and their working styles out there.
The best way of looking into a company is read their previous customer reviews or may be looking for the company affiliation with BBB. I am very much concerned about my valuable luggage so what I did in that case I called companies asked them for couple of their testimonials and looked into their rating with BBB and they may be calling some of the people those who have experience them before. I choose my best Toronto movers as Dino movers that way because they never hesitated to give me the list of the companies or people they had worked for and that is the real spirit which I like most. Thanks for best moving companies Toronto.
Summer is one of the most important time in the all the times for Toronto movers. Summer have some of its advantages such as, weather stay nice all the day, kids are out of the schools, and home buying and selling is on the peak and that all is great for moving. May be just summer moving of Toronto for vocations or relocation. Toronto movers can be fun when moving in summer.
But when it comes to moving in the Toronto city there are certain guideline need to be followed because Toronto is one of the biggest city in the country and have certain rules to follow.
The best way of following the instructions is download the Instructions available on the Dino moving website and give them a good follow up to see how things work in the real time span.
It is always a better idea to print the checklist available on the website and that makes the moving real smoother. If you place all the items in the truck very correctly and with no empty spaces between the boxes that can make you ride real better and smoother in t5hat case are out of the tension of things brokerage with the leaning spaces that are between the boxes in the Toronto movers truck.
While packing follow the packing instructions given by movers. Not wrapping things too tight leaving a space between for the rational flow of the air and space etc. And after packing when loading things on truck you make sure heavier things are loaded first and lighter things are loaded after them because of by chance you put lighter weight things down and heavier box up that can crash both boxes and collapse the things in between. Toronto movers ensure this quality check while the whole move.
Load the truck and secure no spaces between the boxes you must use either tape or the rope for secure wrapping up on the whole lot to make sure nothing is hanging out to fall or collapse.
Large things such as sofas, refrigerator, bureaus and other heavy appliances need to be adjusted against the front wall of the Toronto movers’ truck to make sure protective and tight closing of the truck gates. And comparatively lighter things such as chairs, tables, bookcases need to be placed at the back of the truck. All these instructions are good enough for safe and secure summer moving Toronto.
moving companies somewhat good and bad .After being refered to Dino Movers i was a bit
skeptic but i went ahead and tried it. i was surprised and impressed with the service while
my whole move in toronto .I will say dino movers are the best toronto movers even though i
had canceled a few times they were still very politeand ready to change the moves to my
convenience. at anytime without a doubt i would use them again and refer them to my friends.
give them a call at 416-255-1200 or visit them at dinomovers.ca
I see a Chinese moving truck in the Richmond Hill & Markham area a lot. I think they are called "Wan Can"? Or is it "Can Wan"? Has any one used them?
DO not employee these people. Awful experience.
After seeing all of the controversy going on in the moving industry these days, my husband and I did a bunch of research to find a good and legitimate company to handle our move to London Ontario. We came across Agility on several Toronto blogs of people praising their services. We called them and spoke to their moving representative. He was very helpful, and answered all of my questions with out hesitation. He made sure to go over every detail about their services and made it clear that no monies would be accepted until after the move was complete and all items were off the truck and placed were WE wanted them. This is what sold me on them. After booking, an confirmation email was sent to me confirming the rate per hour and breakdown. The movers showed up on move day 30 minutes early, and were terrific! They moved us in under the estimated time and had a smile on their face all day. I have already recommended them to my family and would definitely use them again without hesitation. They have many pictures and reviews on their web site,
http://www.agilitymovingandstorage.ca
These guys really are the best movers in Toronto!!
Cindy
Their rates were much more affordable than the almost-extortionate prices everyone else seemed to be quoting. I let them know at the outset that I was a only single person moving about 7-8 very large, and very very heavy boxes, which probably wouldn't take much time...but that didn't deter them.
I would just like to use this forum to say that the guys from Moving Titan were absolutely brilliant. Simba and Augustine (I love their names!) were not only fast and efficient, they were also really nice and helpful guys. They got everything loaded up, transported and moved in, before my booking of the service elevator expired. And they did it with a smile.
Percy, who I believe is the head honcho, was also really lovely to deal with. It's always a pleasure working with true professionals who go the extra mile to provide a great customer experience.
So that's my endorsement in a nutshell. Moving Titan - highly recommended.
www.movingtitan.com
Tender Touch Moving is a pleasure to deal with I've used them two times this year alone once for my large move and the other for my daughter to Kingston, ON for University.
From the first call to the office to the final piece brought into our home by the movers on move day it has always been a pleasure.
Tender Touch offers superb service, excellent customer service. I wish my past moves could have gone so smooth.
www.agilitymovingandstorage.ca
Audrey Deluca
They keep changing their names. Probably because of bad reputation.
Please read other reviews I collected in the internet regarding these CROOKS:
http://www.ziplocal.ca/companies/2418132-North-York-Moving-Storage
http://homestars.com/reviews/65016?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/56419?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/51253?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/47047?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/41762?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/23217?company_id=218308
http://homestars.com/reviews/13864?company_id=218308
http://www.weblocal.ca/north-york-moving-storage-toronto-on.html
http://www.strongmovers.ca
Have you contemplated suing them (or at least taking them to small claims court)?
WORST WAY TO MOVE
I had my move scheduled with them for two months, and even called the Friday before my move to confirm they were coming. They no-showed on me and didn't even tell me they couldn't come until I had called them at least six times and they finally answered 45 minutes after they were supposed to have shown up. They said they were in Niagara unloading a move from the day before and couldn't come move me.
I said "When were you going to tell me this!?"
He says: "I'm telling you right now! Maybe I can come in like 6 hours?"
Thankfully, Zahar movers were able to come within an hour on a last minute desperate call, and were wonderful.
they move me about two weeks ago, my sister introduce the company to me. They are really professionals, friendly and honest.
www.tendertouchmoving.com
htttp://www.movingtitan.com
For the first time I did't have to argue with the movers.
Would recommend them. here's the number and site: 1-888-668-3161 & www.ammoving.ca
Good luck
Morgan
Awsome guys.
Fred, Elvis and Mike did an amazing job. Long hot day, and the guys pulled through with a fantastic job. We are very pleased and will be using them again for our next move in a few years.
M
THE BEST.
I have used them 3 times and am going to use them again. I always request 3 men as it moves fast. My last move only took two hours for a one bedroom. I was so impressed that I tipped $100. So affordable. Nothing damaged. I think in total before tip it was $220. They even moved my treadmill down 2 flights of stairs. Try these guys out I swear you will not be disappointed!!!
Number is easy. 416. My.truck.
Enjoy.
We are considering using them for a long distance move from Alberta to Vancouver.
Any feedback would be really appreciated!!
And to make matters worse, I was missing a bunch of items upon delivery. I can now not even reach the company by email, phone or fax. I was told by my movers that my stuff was "safe" in their warehouse. It's now been almost 2 weeks since my move and I am getting nowhere.
Anyone else having this problem with them? Or know what is going on?
This is my 3rd time using Tender Touch Moving I wouldn't use anyone else. Check out their web site and you can see a video of how they do thier jobs and it's no joke that's exactly how the job gets done. Funny but true these guys are on their game.
The workers looked like they just rolled out of bed, they looked so unkept, unprofessional and unorganized, there truck was discusting and dirty, they were extremely slow, and lazy like the above mentioned we had to practically move everything ourselves. What was the point of hiring movers when we practically did all the work ?? As soon as they got to our location they needed a washroom break before they even started to lift anything !!! They kept stalling and asking stupid questions. Once you've paid you will never hear from them again when we tried to get a hold of them after our move was done. I will never use them again. You pay for what you get.
Amy K.
www.inandoutmoving.ca
James
[url=http://www.gentlegiant.ca]Toronto Movers[/url]
Really, super human. Movers who really care about their customers.
http://inandoutmoving.wordpress.com/
http://homestars.com/on/toronto/moving-storage
They arrived on time, were fast & efficient and helped where I needed it. They arrived at the destination in another city before I did and had the truck unpacked and at least 95% of everything was in the correct rooms. When I finally arrived I was exhausted and one of the movers offered and emptied my van of all the misc stuff that didn't hit the boxes.
My Mother and cousin arrived when the guys were unpacking and were also very impressed with them. My cousin is planning on using them when she moves.
When the crew arrived, as the first time I used them, they were all in uniforms and had smiles on their faces. After taking a look around, they were able to plan the move and it went without a hitch, just like the first time. I really like how they protect all of our belongings in blue blankets and how they protect my floors with red carpet, makes me feel like a queen!
If your in need of a reliable, professional mover call Agility, they are the only movers I and my family will use.
Paid $624 for 2 bd condo (even without bedroom set).
My husband did more moving than of the movers.
Took more than 6 hours – they estimated another 1-2 hours.
Not a single item including furnitures went upstairs. – IS THIS EVEN LEGAL?
After 6 hours they left remaining thing on my front lawn.
USE JIA JIA MOVING AT YOUR OWN RISK!
If you have any problem, you won't get beyond their customer service who can't do a thing for you.
I don't plan on ever moving again but if I do I certainly know who to call.
Thank you for nice info blogto
Pennsylvania moving companies
they are called "BEST MOVING COMPANY". 1-855-259-4001
When I choose company, I am not reading reviews I call and ask a lot of questions and see how will be the whole process, how i recieve confirmation of my booking, how I can be sure in given price, how quickly they answer by email and phone, also check if the company own trucks. If company require deposit, i never pay deposit, may be just for last minute move I will be ok. But even the move depends a lot from moving crew, if movers are proffesional you'll be moved without issues even with company just may be with one truck. So always ask if movers are proffesional ones and see what answer you will get.
Good luck. I choose already the company I will be moving next time - Miracle Movers
Anyway, in the end the bill was like a fraction of what we had spent with our previous movers. ( two men and a truck .. don't use by the way)
Anyways, I thought thy were really good. their site is: http://inandoutmoving.wordpress.com/
J.
Well at least thee gone now.......
Lets compare notes too. I am in Toronto and had my things in their storage and now am trying to get it back but I can't find them. I called the office and a man spoke to me all the time and all of a sudden when I want to get down to the warehouse and look at my stuff, the number ceased to be working.
Marilyn
Did you get everything back now? from careful movers??
My things are still unseen.
Marilyn
http://www.ripoffreport.com/storage-self-storage/careful-movers-aaa-c/careful-movers-aaa-careful-mov-1b8e0.htm#
I have to tell you. These guys were very professional.
I called about 7 months ago (4 months prior to my move) to book my move from Ottawa to Montreal.
The person that took my booking was so nice and professional. On the day of the move, Tender Touch Moving Company was very friendly and professional. They even wrapped and packed everything as requested.
I have a baby grand piano that they wrapped and protected and arrived at my new place without a mark on it.
The final bill was on target from what I was quoted and very happy with all their services and prices.
Overall, I would refer TENDER TOUCH MOVING to any of my friends and co workers for any local or long distance moves.
Cheers to all who are moving
Their reps on the phone are great. So friendly and knowledgeable, they explained the entire process from start to finish. They, in great detail, explained their billing methods and costs. I love the fact that the do not gouge their customers by adding a mountain of hidden fees at the end of the day. Once I booked, they sent me a detailed confirmation email, which I thought was a professional thing to do.
The moving crew was also very pleasant. Quite friendly and fun too, they used blankets and plastic wrap to protect all of my items. They didn’t damage anything major, just a minor rub on an old table which I told them not to bother protecting with blankets. They apparently told their boss when they went back to their location, because the next day we received a phone call apology from the agent we booked with and he even sent a cheque to cover the cost of repair, even though I told them not to.
I would use this company again and again, and I will be recommending them at every opportunity.
I was worried about my move and all my stuff, also worried about moving to the big city, but after having such a pleasurable pack and move into such a great neighbourhood I'm at ease and very happy with Tender Touch Moving Company. I would refer them anytime.
Thanks guys :)