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Eat & Drink

Is one of these Toronto cafes the next Starbucks?

Posted by Rick McGinnis / May 28, 2010

Starbucks TorontoThere's a specter behind the shoulder of the Toronto cafes that have expanded in the last year into second locations. It's green and black, and can be found almost everywhere - often within a short walk of these burgeoning mini coffee empires. Starbucks is the coffee shop we love to hate. But are the enterprising entrepreneurs behind such burgeoning indie coffee chains as Dark Horse, Crema or Lit Espresso Bar fashioning themselves as the next Howard Schultz?

"Let's face it, we wouldn't be here without Starbucks," says Billy Dertilis, one of the trio behind Red Rocket, which recently expanded from its cozy original location on the edge of Leslieville to a second spot on Wellesley Street. "Starbucks is the industry reference. If an independent coffee shop doesn't look toward it for inspiration, it should - just like a new donut shop should look toward Tim Horton's, or a new clothing retailer should check out H&M."

"All that said," he adds, "by overextending itself and losing sight of its original principles of quality and service, Starbucks has given the independent Coffee Shop the opportunity to chip away at its clientele."

"I haven't spent a lot of time analyzing what Starbucks has done," insists Geoff Polci, whose Junction coffee shop Crema recently opened up a tiny new location right near Yonge and Bloor, sharing a storefront with an outlet of "fresh food fast" chain Freshii. "I know they went from more of a quality focus, they expanded rather quickly and it definitely thinned out the brand a little bit."

Crema brandingWhat our homegrown coffee entrepreneurs all agree on is that Starbucks made branding king. "I think branding is one of the most important things," says Joe Angellotti of Lit, who expanded a few months ago from Roncesvalles to College where the new cafe is run by his sister. "We've been trying to do it right from the get-go, even with my Roncesvalles location. We had t-shirts made as soon as we were open, we did flyers in both neighbourhoods when we opened up."

Like Dark Horse, another burgeoning mini-chain, none of these expanding coffee empires have opened up competitively close to each other, but a battle of the mini-chains might be brewing in the future, since all of them admit that expansion was always in their plan. "My plans were always to expand and I think that's probably the case for a lot of people," says Crema's Polci.

"Our plans for Red Rocket Coffee are huge," echoes Dertilis. "For now, the second location is the perfect opportunity to further define our concept: what is the overarching brand? How does that branding adapt to specific neighbourhoods? How do we strike the right balance between the allure of the independent coffee house and the consistency of a chain?"

Lit's Angellotti adds that, above everything else, quality control is his biggest problem, as it's the area where he thinks indie chains, regardless of their size, have the edge over their well-financed, highly branded international competition. "The hardest thing is quality control, and that's what i'm focusing on myself. I'm going from store to store working with every employee trying to stay on top of the quality. That's why I'm not thinking of opening a third store right now, because you need the right people working for you."

Editor's Note: When asked, owners of these cafes declined to specify how big they believed the market opportunity is in Toronto (ie. how many locations, or how large, they think they can grow and instead offered comments like "just wait and see"). Not discussed in this article are other local cafes that are currently operating two or more locations such as The Grinder, I Deal Coffee, B Espresso, Ezra's Pound and Savoury Grounds.

Discussion

26 Comments

Coffee Addict / May 28, 2010 at 09:25 am
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You'd be amazed at the lack of independent coffee shops along Hwy 7 and other major thoroughfares.

Figuring out a way to include darkhorse/redrocket etc in the lobby's of office buildings in suburban Toronto...there's a mint to be had.
John / May 28, 2010 at 09:58 am
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The old Second Cup on Roncesvalles still sits empty, waiting ... (hint, hint)
snjy / May 28, 2010 at 10:44 am
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dear Coffee Addict

while your idea of having an amazing independant in the 905 seems great ... the rest of your sheep coworkers and neighbours disagree.

people who live 'up there' are very happy with their cookie cutter homes, cars and shopping -- coffee sadly is no different to them
Coffee Addict / May 28, 2010 at 11:04 am
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snjy...

no one ever made money following the herd.

at some point, the queues through timmy's drive thru will be too long, and at some point, *bucks lattes will rise above $5.

to have an independent owner set up in a corporate lobby, the sheep will follow.

...maybe i'll have to start one up on my own.
Matt / May 28, 2010 at 11:06 am
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Dear SNJY,
I; with most gratitude; invite you to spend some time in the 905. They have more sophistication than you think.
Check out picturesque town cenrtes such as Bronte, Unionville, Bramlea, Brant St. Burlington, Main St. Markham, Stouffville, Port Credit... the list goes on.
I'm sorry to hear that your impression of the 905 is simply cookie cutter homes and gas guzzling cars. Of course that is a problem... that Toronto faces too.
Mike / May 28, 2010 at 11:40 am
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Do you think the gourmet burger joint down the street with 2 locations will reach the heights of McDonalds? Same ridiculous angle to this story. There's so many more interesting topics to write about in the world of coffee.
rick mcginnis replying to a comment from Mike / May 28, 2010 at 12:02 pm
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Mike - Starbucks was just some little gourmet coffee joint with a couple of locations in Seattle for years. These places have expanded from one to two stores in much less time than it took Starbucks. Of course going from one to 1,000 is a bigger leap, but who would have thought that a $5 coffee would be a daily staple for office workers back in 1978?
mike / May 28, 2010 at 12:13 pm
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For something a little more in depth to understand the hurdles of gourmet coffee shop expansion, you may want to refer to this article in the Globe and Mail a while back on Caffe Artigianio -

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/your-business/start/franchising/coffee-chain-plans-to-beat-the-odds/article1454439/

This was a well researched story.
Danielle replying to a comment from John / May 28, 2010 at 12:29 pm
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@John the LAST thing Roncy needs is another coffee shop!
hipstah_jeans replying to a comment from Mike / May 28, 2010 at 01:00 pm
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WHY SHOULD I GO TO THE NINE OH FIVE IT IS SO SUBURBAN THERE OMG DO YOU EVEN HAVE SIDEWALKS IN STREETSVILL? CAN I TAKE MY FIXIE BIKE TO THE LAKEFRONT TRAIL IN MISSISSAUGA OH NO I CANNOT!!!!!! T
David replying to a comment from snjy / May 28, 2010 at 02:20 pm
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I live out in the 'burbs and it's full of people like me who used to live downtown, moved out to buy a house. We didn't stop liking going to Dark Horse or Crema all of a sudden. For a city that likes to eat local, there always seems to be a hate on to those that live 2 minutes away from farms.
Mike W replying to a comment from snjy / May 28, 2010 at 02:21 pm
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I've never seen someone take so personally another person's place of residence.
independentthought replying to a comment from snjy / May 28, 2010 at 02:53 pm
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Is that what encompasses Toronto life? - Snobbery and gourmet coffee?

Seems to me that everyone who shares the same "anti-905" view are sheep as well - everyone feeds off the same bloated train of thought.

I'm going to start hating on the 519ers and 705ers just to be different.
marmaduke / May 28, 2010 at 02:57 pm
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red rocket is what they call dog boners. just saying.
jack / May 28, 2010 at 03:03 pm
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there are nicer coffee shops in hk, taipei, tokyo, singapore.. they should bring those concepts over here..
Moe Berg's Left Toe replying to a comment from jack / May 28, 2010 at 03:48 pm
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What's stopping you from doing it?
Farg / May 28, 2010 at 03:54 pm
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Wouldn't the new/separate stores have to be franchised out in order to be considered a chain?
Marc / May 28, 2010 at 04:45 pm
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Please don't ever ever compare any local/indie cafe with that travesty of a coffee shop named Starbucks. Even if they do become a chain or have a number of branches, they will still be legitimate, like Second Cup. But the indie/local ones are always the best.

About the 905 and other areas "up there" outside Toronto, the truth is that because of bad city planning there and wanting to be some disgusting stereotype of a suburban land (they are in denial it when it becomes dense and crowded there), it is mostly malls and strip plazas being put up there (no BIA format or design) especially in the newer areas which are more cookie-cutter and soulless and too far! This does not allow for local and independent businesses to set up shop there, especially in malls. That is why all you see in these malls are big corporate names, many from the usa. The rents and leases are too high to begin with. That is why malls are not friendly, create a place devoid of culture, and are not a good thing for an area.
Ollie / May 29, 2010 at 02:00 am
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The bottom line is taste. This starts with freshly roasted quality arabica beans. Starbucks did well to educate us and establish prices for specialty coffee. But they haven't delivered freshly roasted coffee for a long, long time whereas some independent shops seem to understand that quality is inextricably tied to freshly roasted beans. Period.
Yes / May 29, 2010 at 05:41 pm
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The people who work at Red Rocket coffee are the nicest group in town and their coffee is the best in the city. I wish Starbucks would go under and Red Rocket could take their place taking over the world.

Yes / May 29, 2010 at 05:46 pm
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Also, Savoury Grounds has AMAZING coffee but they usually have only one person working- and that person has to make sandwiches and serve the coffee, and make the fancy drinks.

Sometimes the line up would have 8 people in it, waiting for up to 20 minutes for a coffee. It was too much so I stopped going.
I want them to do well though because their coffee is good, but they need to seriously add more staff.
chephy replying to a comment from David / May 29, 2010 at 09:02 pm
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Don't be ridiculous, David. "2 minutes away from the farms" does not somehow make you in any way like a farmer. In fact, the suburbia has encroached on farmland, so trying to pretend that suburbanites are somehow contributing to the local food movement is pretty silly. BTW, I am not saying that I care about the local food movement (I think it's vastly overrated), but don't try to pretend suburbanites have any connection with it.

And I'm afraid snjy is quite right in his assessment of the majority of suburban dwellers. The places listed later - Streetsville, Main St. Markham, etc. - are indeed gems, but that's because THEY ARE NOT SUBURBIA. They, just like farmland, are the victims of suburbia, quaint little towns swallowed up by urban sprawl. You know what true suburbia is like and yes, it IS cookie-cutter, there is no way to deny that. And yes, people who are willing to subject themselves to living in a place like that are more likely to be happy to drive their gas guzzlers to huge, ugly parking lots to shop at boring, standard chains.

They may be interesting and sophisticated people in other ways, but they are, as a group, more likely to shy away from something unfamiliar like a - god forbid! - indie coffe shop. Especially if it does not have a drive-through...
Rockitscience / May 30, 2010 at 01:35 pm
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it is good to see the expansion of the indies. A developing culture of coffee is needed. However educating the customer in coffee quality is key to winning the war with starbucks. No sane person can say starbucks makes quality drinks.
JR replying to a comment from Matt / May 30, 2010 at 11:59 pm
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Enough sophistication to use semi-colons in inappropriate places? Thought so.
jamesmallon replying to a comment from JR / May 31, 2010 at 08:27 am
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Ha! Nothing like a semi-colon to trip you up; nor pointing out the most unrepresentative parts of the 905 to weaken your own argument, Matt.
Tamara / June 10, 2010 at 08:36 pm
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Love Red Rocket and some of the other indie's mentioned, they have a certain sex appeal.

Personally, I don't believe RR gained their strength simply due to quality brew (personally I wouldn't recognize a good brew). I would say its the warm atmosphere, genuine people, excellent service, a sense of caring.

You talk about starbucks lineups.... but Tim Horton's is rediculous too. Their crazy lineups are for what???

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