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New in Toronto real estate: 88 Scott

Posted by Robyn Urback / August 2, 2012

88 scott toronto88 Scott is one of Toronto's newest mega-condos, slated for Wellington and Scott streets. "Mega," in this case, means more than 500 units, stretched out over 58 storeys with too many amenities to list (that's a lie — I list them below). Developed by Concert Properties, this structure will house all sort of different units at varying price points, with a location pretty much at the centre of everything. But the snazzy address and extra frills will come at a price, of course (which pretty much amounts to lots of money). Here's a closer look at 88 Scott.

SPECS

Exterior: Glass, limestone/granite base

Number of units: 513

Number of floors: 58

Unit sizes (in square feet): 278 - 2920

Price range (approx): $250,000 to $1,500,000

Parking: $50,000 (For suites 700 s.f. or larger)

Storage locker: $5,000

Maintenance: $0.45/s.f.

Hydro/heat/water included?: No

Interior design: Union31

Number of elevators: 4

Amenities: Guest suites (2), fitness centre, 24/hr concierge, WiFi-enabled news/coffee lounge, outdoor terrace with barbeques, seamless-edge indoor pool, sky lounge on 46th/47th floor, sauna, games room...

Expected occupancy: October 2016

88 scott torontoTHE GOOD

I'm swooning. It's probably just because I'm a sucker for virtual tours set to an expressive classical soundtrack, but swooning nonetheless. So yes, I sort of like this one. First off, the structure itself diverges from the all-too-typical glass rectangle in the sky (I'm looking at you, Tableau), thus offering a little visual interest and allowing for a collection of varied floor plans.

Speaking of, 88 Scott has all sorts of suites in different shapes and sizes (and consequently, price points) that actually seem conducive to living. That's right — functional layouts! (I never thought I'd see the day...) Most kitchens come with either a breakfast bar or island to offer extra counter space, and bedrooms are equipped with real hinged doors (yes, this is actually a point to be lauded). I could see a first-time homeowner more than comfortable in, say, 88 Scott's 595-square foot one bedroom/one bath, wanting only perhaps of a little more closet space.

88 scott torontoBut who needs closet space when you have the St. Lawrence Market just down the road, plus plenty of cafes, restaurants, and attractions galore? Well, I would probably still want another closet, but nevermind. Within walking distance to various forms of transit and quick drive to the Gardiner, 88 Scott's location pretty much can't be beat. The area is active without being atrociously overcrowded (although, maybe Scott might help to change that), with a more sophisticated nighttime crowd than, say, over at Richmond and John; that is, unless you have a thing for Hummer limos.

The plan also seems to excel in terms of the small touches. Custom roller shades come standard in every suite, for example, and the building will have designated bike parking and pet wash stations. And though I can hear you naysayers already, I'll ask you this: have you ever tried to wash a sandy poodle in a bathtub? Didn't think so.

88 scott condoTHE BAD

In my hasty brochure-reading foolishness, I thought 278 square feet referred to the size of the parking spaces in 88 Scott's underground lot. Not so. Believe it or not, that is actually the size of the building's smallest units, which will surely give its residents further reason to lament their bachelor lifestyles. Of course, the size is only relevant to those who actually choose to buy/rent/live in the studios, but it does raise the existential question of how small is too small for permanent living quarters. I'd wager that if your futon can't actually extend into a horizontal bed, it's time to upgrade.

88 scott condoSo let's say you can upgrade to, say, the 595-square foot one-bedroom unit mentioned in the previous section. Then you're golden, right? Actually, yes, since you're looking at paying more than $400,000. And keep in mind that's the preconstruction price. And I'm also being extremely modest (you're looking at an extra $20,000 or so for a unit on a floor with any sort of view). In any case, you're looking at a bare minimum of $670 per square foot. Not exactly ideal for first-time homeowners. And while you could make the case that you're getting good bang for your buck in terms of location and amenities, you're certainly not getting a whole lot of room.

88 scott condoAnd then there are all of those extra costs. While most new projects start out with artificially low maintenance fees, not all of them have multiple lounges, entertainment rooms, and fitness options. Rising maintenance fees, coupled with the additional cost of heat, water, and hydro, likely means that living at 88 Scott won't be cheap. Not that residents would really be under that impression in the first place.

88 scott torontoTHE VERDICT

Ah, farm-fresh produce within minutes every weekend. Curse you, St. Lawrence North farmers' market and your pure-maple-syrup powers of seduction. If you've got the dough (key) and you like the area, I don't see how a would-be homeowner could resist. Plenty of floor plans mean you can pick the layout you want, and the centre-of-everything location means you can pretty much walk to whatever you need. Please stockpile some of that syrup for me.

What do you think? Would you live here? Add your comments to the thread below.

Discussion

26 Comments

Flacid / August 2, 2012 at 09:58 am
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I was very excited seeing some of the earlier renderings of this building. Now I see this. Another wall of green glass. My excitement is gone.
Rick / August 2, 2012 at 09:58 am
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278 sqft ????? I guess the builder knows they'll have no problem selling these vienna-sausage-can sized units to someone (sardine can would be the 595 sqft units) for a tidy profit. These guys are unbelievable, is downtown Toronto freakin’ Japan now? Is the downtown core so dense with people that people want to live in credit-card sized spaces? Are people that dumb and desperate to live downtown that an closet sized (literally) apartment unit is worth $250 K +parking +storage +maintenance fee ???? Someone enlighten me please…
FOTL replying to a comment from Rick / August 2, 2012 at 10:03 am
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Here is hoping its like Japan.

Cant wait for panty filled vending machines next!!!
Nick replying to a comment from Rick / August 2, 2012 at 10:18 am
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Please compare the unit size to more small items. I just can't get enough of those.
Graham replying to a comment from FOTL / August 2, 2012 at 10:29 am
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I could go for the beer filled vending machines.
Rick replying to a comment from Nick / August 2, 2012 at 10:35 am
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Wallet sized, smartphone sized, business card sized, cubicle sized, toyota yaris sized, in-dash glove box sized .... you get the picture Mr. useless.
LF / August 2, 2012 at 10:42 am
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It's not really about living space when you buy a condo that is 278 sq feet. People that buy large homes in the suburbs spend a considerable amount of time indoors, in their large homes. People that live downtown are only home to sleep. We either work long hours (so appreciate the short distance to get home) or we have busy social lives which means we're out and about in the city and are really home for a few hours a day. So having a small condo in the city makes sense to those that can afford it. Everyone has different lifestyles and different ideas as to what constitutes a home. I think this condo sounds amazing and is a GREAT location!
Michelle replying to a comment from Rick / August 2, 2012 at 10:48 am
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I imagine some of our wealthier downtown workers may buy these as "Pied A Terres". If you live out of the city but often work late downtown and can afford it, why not?
Victor / August 2, 2012 at 12:28 pm
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The Toronto condo market is toast. Sales and prices are dropping like a stone. This project will never get off the ground.
Alex / August 2, 2012 at 01:07 pm
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Interesting. But the built in dog baths put me off. I'd rather be in a building with as few pets as possible.

FYI, living on lower floors isn't always a bad thing. Sure, no view. But no waiting for elevators either, plus cheaper rent/price is a nice incentive. When a fire alarm goes off it isn't as much of a hassle as well.
Flacid replying to a comment from Victor / August 2, 2012 at 01:33 pm
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Um, no. The units in this building are already over half way sold. This project has been "off the ground" for months already.
Victor / August 2, 2012 at 02:30 pm
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Um, yes. When buyers start realizing that the market value of the condo they purchased has just dropped 20% - 50% they will be walking away in droves. Will not be built.
me know architecture! / August 2, 2012 at 03:40 pm
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Apparently this is outside-the-box design, yet Tableau is conventional? Wow. Okay.
Svej / August 2, 2012 at 04:39 pm
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Hm ... I used to live in a 2-bedroom, 325 sq. ft. apartment. I had a medium size bedroom, a laughably small kitchen, and a small washroom (with the door entering into the kitchen). Even if that 2-bedroom were a 1-bedroom, it still would be uncomfortably small. I would NEVER pay for a condo that size (or in this case, 278 sq. ft.) You can't even call it a condo, that's a glorified closet.

Who knows, maybe there ARE people who enjoy eating/sleeping/working/entertaining all in the same room.
Rick replying to a comment from Flacid / August 2, 2012 at 04:43 pm
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Hey flacid, the Toronto Condo market is just that - FLACID
I suggest you start following the housing situation in Toronto and in other parts of Canada, as there are strong forecasts from major financial institutions, and real estate speculators that the market is cooling fast and home values are trending negative in the future, tons of recent information out there from very credible sources.

I truly hope that this doesn’t happen, however when you have a shoe-box sized apartment going for a quarter of a million dollars in Toronto - something is dreadfully wrong here...
You have to remember the builder's and sellers of these units don't give a shit about anyone, just about lining their pockets by using deception, creating this BS sense of being trendy, or creating an image of "look i'm better than you cause I live here" nonsense that makes the young kids out of university/college that have been employed for a couple years and have money saved in the bank, super horny to blow it all and buy a place that is grossly overvalued before a shovel is in the ground.
simone tai / August 2, 2012 at 08:07 pm
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that small condo...you'll never want to stay home! Ridiculous. OK - you can rent it out as a hotel room while you sleep on the grates downstairs on scott street - they're already quite popular, however! :(
Seriously?! / August 2, 2012 at 08:20 pm
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278 sq. ft., 513 units and only 4 elevators?! Why are developers so greedy and build shitty places for Torontonians to live? I don't understand why people buy these places validating the crap work of these builders. I keep waiting for someone to build a decent building.
Danny Handelman / August 2, 2012 at 10:03 pm
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Dwelling units in larger buildings would be cheaper and larger if height and minimum setback restrictions, segregation of commercial and residential use of land, minimum automobile parking rather than maximum automobile parking of 0, development charges for infill being too high and too low for low-density land use and property taxes were based on the value of land alone rather than both land and building did not make it more profitable for builders to build outward rather than upward.
Aaron / August 2, 2012 at 11:45 pm
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Buy a 595 sq.ft. to live in and an adjacent 278 sq. ft. for your walk-in closet!
Relax / August 3, 2012 at 10:59 am
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It's true condo sizes are getting smaller, that's a fact of big city living and while "vienna-sausage-can sized units" of 278 sq. ft. may seem ridiculous it could be the perfect pied-a-terre for someone who occasionally visits the city.

Besides, RELAX! There are only two units at 278ft in the entire building with the average at 600-700sq.ft. Great location & great design.
me / August 5, 2012 at 11:01 am
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enough to bang new girlfriends (one at a time)
Diane / August 8, 2012 at 04:33 pm
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Hi, I'm sorry I'm totally out of the subject, but would anyone know where I could find the bed frame that we can see in the second picture?
Thanks a lot everyone!
Aaron replying to a comment from Diane / August 8, 2012 at 04:46 pm
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Just wait until the project is cancelled. Should be available shortly.
Anthony / September 27, 2012 at 07:37 pm
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65% sold now, this wont be going anywhere but up so drop it.

Jon / November 23, 2012 at 09:12 am
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Usually units under 400sqft are occupied by people who want to have a small living space close to where they work and who have an actual home outside of the city. I would be surprised if someone else would purchase such a place. I'm surprised the writer didn't talk about that as it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the starting unit size.
Anthony replying to a comment from Jon / December 9, 2012 at 10:30 am
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Jon, only 4 units out of 500 are under 400 sqft. The fact that people are talking about this as if all the units were under that size is silly. People here are very misinformed.

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