City
Council votes against Ford to return to LRT transit
Although Rob Ford continued to proclaim that "taxpayers want subways" the folks on city council proved they don't buy that theory, earlier today adopting a motion put forward by Karen Stintz to return to a LRT-focused transit plan that looks a lot like the first phase of Transit City. After a marathon special meeting at City Hall today, the final tally was 25-18 in favour of the TTC Chair's transit strategy, which includes light rail on Finch Avenue, an at-grade section on Eglinton East and a proposal to investigate the best course of action for Sheppard Avenue East.
Adding mirth to the already-mockery of a meeting, the final vote was attempted a total of three times as councillors claimed they pushed the wrong button. Yes, 8.4 billion worth of transit-bound dollars with which to play, and councillors are stumbling on the first step: pressing the right button. The mis-votes weren't, however, a factor in the final outcome.
It's very possible Giorgio Mammoliti let out an audible weep following the concluding count. Animated throughout the day, the Ward 7 councillor objected to the idea that LRT was being rammed down his constituents' throats, and at one point even suggested that money be diverted to a Finch BRT, the Eglinton LRT and Sheppard subway instead of at-grade rail in the area.
Ford was similarly indignant about the day's proceedings. At the outset of the afternoon session, the mayor attempted to pass a motion that would delay a vote on Stintz's motion in favour of referring the options for the Eglinton Crosstown to an expert panel, who would evaluate the merits of at-grade or underground passage East of Laird Drive.
When that didn't work — his motion was defeated 19-24 — he would later call the entire meeting into question. I'm very confident the Premier will build subways," Ford said during a brief media scrum after the voting had concluded. "Technically speaking that whole meeting was irrelevant because it's a provincial project."
It remains to be seen what exactly Metrolinx and the province will do with today's news, but pretty much any way that you dice it, this meeting was another huge blow to the mayor and his putative leadership. The councillors who backed the Stintz plan spoke of the need for the city to get the most transit infrastructure possible from the $8.4 billion in funding available. So long as the province endorses today's decision, it appears that's set to be the case after all.
Update (9:05 p.m.)
Ontario Minister of Transportation, Bob Chiarelli, has released a statement on today's council meeting, one that sure makes it sound like the province will support council's decision:
"Earlier today, City Council met to debate the future of public transit in the City of Toronto. As a former Regional Chair and Mayor, I have always respected the will of council, as a whole, to come to a position regarding public transit priorities.
Over the past few weeks, Torontonians have been party to a healthy debate about the future of public transit. For many, public transit is a necessity — it's how employees get to and from work, how seniors get to and from their appointments and how students commute to school.
Throughout the debate, the McGuinty government has maintained a clear stance--we wanted the City to come to a common position so that we all could focus on building much-needed transit infrastructure.
Now that Council has endorsed a position, we have asked Metrolinx to consider the impacts on current transit planning and report back to us as quickly as possible."
Read the statement in its entirety here.
Update (9:25 p.m.)
Rob Ford has posted a note to his Facebook page indicating that he plans to continue to campaign for subways in spite of today's vote. We've copied it in full below:
"Dear Friends,
I campaigned to bring subways to Toronto and the people of Toronto gave me an overwhelming mandate to build subways.
Today, City Council spoke to its wish for the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown. The residents of Scarborough, Toronto's fastest growing region, deserve underground rapid transit — and I promised to deliver it to them. Today's vote does not change my promise.
Great cities, like Paris, London and New York were built around long term transit visions 100 years ago. Subways in Scarborough represent that long term vision for our great city.
I want to thank the thousands of you who called and wrote to my office and to the office of your respective Councillors to tell them that you voted for subways.
I will continue to stand up for taxpayers across Toronto. I will continue to work for a high-speed subway network in Scarborough and across the city.
An investment in first class transit infrastructure will stand the test of time. I want residents, many years from now, to look back at our time and be thankful we did the right thing by building subways that will still be in use.
I will not abandon the people of Scarborough and Finch Avenue to a second class transit solution that will inflict St. Clair Avenue style chaos on neighbourhoods without any promise of improved travel times.
That is, and remains, my commitment to you as Mayor of this great city."
Robyn Urback and Derek Flack
Photo by Mariam Matti


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eh2dBlarX4
I'm happy to see democracy in action. Also happy that my city counsellor is awesome and listening to people! Yay, Mike Layton!
I want to an amazing comment raised by someone on the Toronto Star website:
Dr. Robert (great and underrated Beatles song BTW)
"If traffic is at a standstill why is it the fault of a public transit vehicle like an LRT holding 300 people, as opposed to the legions of SUVs only holding one person (the driver)?"
http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2012/02/statement-from-minister-bob-chiarelli-on-public-transit-in-toronto.html
A loss those mythical creatures who are always going up to Rob Ford to tell him how right and how great he always is.
Have any of you heard of the Scarborough LRT? Or better yet, tried to take it during rush hour? Scarborough isn't getting any smaller, and LRTs are NOT the answer.
Scarborough is, yet again, getting the shaft. And not surprisingly, the blogto downtown-centric community is happy.
Oh, and by the way - I am aware that Ford has a weight problem. So spare me the he-is-fat-and-therefore-stupid "arguments".
The 401 should get a diamond lane for ttc buses instead of a Sheppard lrt.
Toronto has a lot of train tracks which could be used for go trains which run around the clock. Build some more stations. During construction time no additional problems. This could safe tons of money.
If a fairly small amount of people chose Fordo, or not to vote, he would win.
It's a little hard, but not impossible, to believe that that many Pants votes would go to Smitty.
@Angela - the SRT was a poor choice that was chosen because the technology was being made by a provincially owned company that is now owned by Bombardier in Thunder Bay, so it's entirely different than an LRT that is used by a large number of cities in the EU. However, the SRT _does not_ have the ridership to support a subway, and I doubt it will have the ridership to support it for a while. It only receives 39,000 riders per day, whereas several of the downtown streetcar lines will carry 10,000+ riders/hr during rush hour and the BD/YUS carries 30,000 riders/direction/hour (60,000 passengers/hour). The SRT was also part of the Metro plan to create smaller "downtowns" outside of downtown, many of which failed to become large like Scarborough Town Centre.
Secondly, with regards to jfsnotjfk's comments. Your commute being hard to get to work is not a valid reason to spend $300M+/km for a subway that loses money. An LRT serves the same purpose as a subway but at much lower capital cost, higher frequency than could be supported otherwise, and at much lower operating cost. Considering the density in North York and Scarborough are so low, I seriously doubt any sane real business would consider building a subway before an LRT. Heck, the Bloor streetcar line in 1952 carried 9,000 riders/peak hour/direction (Duncan [Operations Manager], 1952), meaning that it would've had higher ridership than Sheppard does today. There's a very good reason why Toronto and Manhattan built subways AFTER the streetcars became overcrowded, and that's because the demand was there to let the company make money. Sheppard is the only subway line that loses money, and it's easy to see why when there is such abysmal ridership across all of its stations.
As someone who commutes from downtown to UofT Scarborough every day. Ford's plan was wrong for this city (The whole city overall). I support council.
I've mapped the geographical vote distribution (good 'ol trusty paint)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw
See you in a week or three. I'm not at liberty to say which fat farm/boozecan I'll be holed up at but just remember one thing. I'm THE MAYOR and you're not..
( the mayor walks away..shoulders slumped even lower than usual..and seems to contemplate a loser intensive future )
To those of you who are upset, you do realize that the Eglinton Line was always going to be using LRT trains? And that 11KM of this line is still going to be buried underground (Jane to Laird)? Even under Ford's plan, Kennedy to Scarborough Town Centre was going to be LRT very similar to what we have now (but with far superior trains).
All that has essentially happened is they elected to put Laird to Kennedy above ground, (saving 2 BILLION) and putting those savings toward a Finch LRT. (Finch has bus rates comparable to Sheppard subway ridership - that road was desperate for a transportation improvement). Ford released a study this week saying that making Laird to Kennedy above ground would add 10 minutes to the trip. We're talking 10 minutes here people! For all this 'our children will regret this' talk! 10 minutes!
Nothing happened today that is 'anti subway'.
In fact, Stinz said today she actually SUPPORTS Ford's desire to create a Sheppard Subway (hi Scarborough residents - THIS is your opportunity for a subway connection. Eglinton never was). She is also putting forth the study of the DRL - a subway.
Lets understand what is actually happening before resorting to 'Left vs Right' and 'Subway vs above ground'.
WE CANT STOP CRYING!!!!
After all, they could just gliiiide over traffic and construction.
NONE of you have any facts about transit that you didn't pull out of your assess, yet you all want the rest of us to believe that you know something about transit. Well, you all don't, your lord and master Ford know nothing either, and his defeat on this issue proves it. It's time to face reality and and understand: SUBWAYS ARE TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE AND CAN'T BE BUILT IN TORONTO ANYMORE. They just don't work in the 'burbs. If you all can't deal with this, then I suggest that you all consider getting the game Sin City and playing it to your heart's content, building as many subways to nowhere as you like it (or until such time as the consequences of doing so become evident, and the game's programing arranges for it to be a big mistake.)
article can be found here..
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Coupler/2009/October/TBMs_being_built_for_Spadina_extension.jsp
http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects_and_initiatives/Spadina_subway_extension/Overview.jsp
LRT's have their place in the plan but lefties just cannot see a mix of subway, LRT, and burying LRT lines is the best mix for everyone.
This is a war on the suburbs. Mihevc and all his lap dogs downtown want to rule and dictate what is best for the suburbs without having to live here. They keep more services given to peole living in the core that people in the suburbs do not get. While the city core gets subways those of us in the suburbs get slow surface route transit and lose road capacity.
It's time people in the suburbs rise up. That want our tax money but do not want to listen to what we want or need.
Kudos to council for representing their wards and not allowing themselves to be bullied.
Dear Ms. Stintz: Thank you for bringing rational discussion back to the chamber, and for resurrecting a transit plan that profits ALL of the people and not just the Mayor's 'friends'.
Now,
Dear Mr. Mayor: I am going to forward you a grammar school book on Democracy. The decisions of Council are not irrelevant. These decisions (as opposed to the voices you apparently hear in your head) are the actual will of the people as expressed through the Democratic process currently in place in the City of Toronto. You are in no position to sweep that aside, Sir.
In fact, Sir, if you cannot accept and fully support that process and its outcomes with, at long last, some political grace and maturity ( no-one, at this point, expects SOCIAL grace or maturity from you or your cronies )- then it is YOU, sir, who has become irrelevant.
We have watched you bully, and arm twist, and gather a gang to spout your platitudes (while you reserve the same old bumper-sticker slogans for yourself)- all in the name of this apparently endless line of people who keep approaching you in public and telling you to 'stay the course', among other vague instructions - so easily and fictionally applied to any self-serving plan you have for the Toronto that mature, socially conscious people love - and we recognise it for what it is: Your bumbling attempt at despotism.
Let us be clear, Sir. Get in line with true democracy, or GET OUT!
The problem has never been the desire to build awesome transit, but the availability of resources. We have the resources to improve transit for people all over the city, including the suburbs you claim there is a "war" on. Why are you so hell-bent on defending a plan with only one actual funded line - which exists in both plans anyway! - and a subway that won't get built without that little thing called "funding", which our mayor has seen fit to brush off for the time being despite making it a centrepiece of his transit plans? That's not vision, that's delusion.
To repeat: There is no subway funded and ready to go. The entire fight over Eglinton was whether to bury a part of the line from Kennedy to Laird; the stretch from Laird to Jane is going to be buried anyway. Council's approved plan also improves transit along the stretch of Sheppard left to rot by Mike Harris and the western part of Finch. This was a conflict between rational people who have a grasp on reality and sloganeers who made a show of fighting those "librul downtowners" while leaving their constituents inhaling the vapour of unfunded fantasy -- or in the case of Mammoliti's constituents, more bus fumes and magic beans.
But yeah, screw Finch and everyone else, right? Burying Eglinton all the way == long-term planning and respect for taxpayers, burying from Laird to Jane == short-term planning and third-world transit! Courage!
Honestly, the cognitive dissonance...
* LRT tracks are for some reason so flimsy they need replacement every 20 years, which is terrible,
* But roads that are routinely pounded into potholes every 15 years are a Top Spending Priority, even though their cost comes out of property taxes.
* And subway tunnels and stations (not to mention tracks) are so durable they last forever, ignoring all our 30+ year old subway stations with cracks and groundwater leaking through...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Advanced_Rapid_Transit
I like to call it a "Skytrain". It's not LRT because the tracks are still electrified and it can't cross streets at ground level.
how is that hypocritical? maybe before you read comments you should learn to read.
Karen Stintz, TTC Chair FOR
Peter Milczyn, Vice-Chair AGAINST
Maria Augimeri FOR
Vincent Crisanti AGAINST
Frank Di Giorgio AGAINST
Norm Kelly AGAINST
Denzil Minnan-Wong AGAINST
Cesar Palacio AGAINST
John Parker FOR
How do we get rid of the Rob Ford lapdogs on the TTC commission?
But the ideal should be subways. Rob Ford's plan wasn't workable for the same reason we've hardly had any subway construction since 1978. The Province treated transit like its bastard step-child, then Mike Harris downloaded it entirely. And Dalton McGuinty hasn't been much better. And regardless of party, guaranteeing funding for big transit projects has been like pulling teeth on a cheetah.
Rob Ford isn't the bad guy of the piece. Queen's Park is.
People--on either side of the fence--are working wayyy too hard to find arguments against one another.
Well we now have arguments against anything else Ford cuts and the likes of Sue-Ann Levy go crazy about.
'You are anti-people, anti-culture, anti-bike! This is so not world-class. I've been to NY and Paris, and they have culture and bike lanes, that's how it's done, they are world class'
.. I'm glad for light rail. It's a shame it had to become such a hot political potato to start with.
Ford : subways :: Newt Gingrich : moon base - you can make all the promises in the world, but if you can't scare up the funding, you won't actually be able to implement them and your constituents end up with nothing to show for all the hot air.
Y'know what road could really use a high-capacity replacement for buses? Lawrence. I have co-workers that get to ride those overloaded buses for an hour per trip. A Don Mills LRT would also be dreamy, particularly if it avoided the aggravating intersection at Overlea and Don Mills.
First of all, he campaigned with the promise to build a Sheppard subway extension, NOT to build an Eglinton LRT. Only when the province insisted did he agree to build the line on Eglinton (which had already been planned, approved, and funded).
The Eglinton LRT was always (and still will) be buried in the congested areas from way west of downtown to way east of downtown. It's only the outer ends of the line that will be street-level. Money left over from not needlessly burying the ends of the Eglinton LRT can now be used to fund an additional LRT line on Finch which is not Scarborough but also needs rapid transit - and yes, and LRT line is rapid. This is not a downtown streetcar line.
Meanwhile, the Sheppard subway extension is no more cancelled than it ever was. After a year of figuring out how to fund it, Ford still has No Idea how to pay for it. If the funds are there, it can still be built. If not enough funds appear, an LRT extension is a lot better than nothing.
The Subways Only crowd is complaining that a realistic plan is being implemented in favour of a plan that has absolutely no hope. That really isn't very hard to understand.
And to those who insist that Toronto is too cold for street level trains, why is it that our existing subway lines (except Sheppard) all go above ground for long stretches at the extremities and still manage to function all year long. So do our streetcars and busses by the way. It's like you people never actually take transit in this city. Could that be it?
we support FORD because we believe in obeying your Dear Leader! whoever is in charge = always know's whats RIGHT for toronto!
when mike Harris cancelled the Eglington Subway in 1995 we all said goooo mike!!!!!
And now that Rob FORD say's we need it, we are like "YEah!"
Our City Counsel is a bunch of coward's who are Fashists that are Two Step's Left of Joe Stalin!!!!!1
Remember the headache on St. Clair West? It will be a nightmare!!! Think the LRT will be cheaper than a subway in the short term? Long term? Nope.
Remind the councillors that voted for the LRT have voted themselves out of office too.
Thank god there's no steep hills there and that the LRT won't be steam-powered.
"The LRT will be a huge nightmare at Eglinton West and Bathurst area. Goodbye street parking."
You mean the bit where it runs underground?
You don't know what you're talking about.
if LRT is so bad, how come rob ford's plan for eglinton was still LRT?
are you saying rob ford is stupid?
I don't understand how anyone could be upset by what happened. We traded a few km of underground LRT for two whole LRTs! This was NEVER about subways vs LRTs, it was simply a choice between burying the Eglinton LRT for a few extra km vs Eglinton LRT above ground for a few km and getting an LRT in Scarborough to replace the SRT AND a desperately needed LRT on Finch!
This should have been such a good moment, and initially when I heard the decision I was happy. But then I got depressed once the mayor of our city immediately started going on TV and lying about subways and dismissing council, and lying about the election results too! You did NOT get an "overwhelming" mandate to build subways, he got less than 50% of the vote! That means >50% of citizens didn't want his ridiculous plan that gave us nothing. I can't believe we're stuck with this liar for another 2.5 years.