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Eat & Drink

Inside the new Green Room

Posted by Derek Flack / February 20, 2011

New Green Room TorontoUpdate (February 25th, 2011):

The Green Room is closed again.

As it turns out, the latest iteration of the cafe/bar was never authorized by Municipal Licensing and Standards to reopen in the first place. Although a new application for a license was made by 1836551 Ontario Ltd., "Green Room Cafe" will have to face a Toronto Licensing Tribunal if it hopes to open. "The current status of this application is refused based on concerns stemming from City of Toronto investigations. The refusal letter was issued on February 22nd, 2011 and mailed on February 23rd, 2011. The applicant has until March 24th, 2011 to request a hearing before the Toronto Licensing Tribunal," explains Bruce Hawkins of ML&S.

Although it seems strange to me that a restaurant without a license would be inspected by Toronto Public Health (TPH), apparently this was all a part of the re-application process. "The first inspection resulted in a Conditional Pass, and this info was provided to ML&S as a condition of licensing for the new owner," wrote TPH media representative Ahmad Saidullah in response to my inquires.

But despite the fact that the business has reapplied for a license, that doesn't mean that they can legally operate during this process. "The Green Room does not have a license. They were not legally allowed to open at any point," Hawkins confirms.

Calls to the Green Room earlier today met with the same answering message I first encountered on the Sunday the 20th. I thus have no explanation as to why ownership believed it was authorized to open its doors, if indeed it did.

I did, however, speak with the Green Room's assistant manager, Ryan. He tells me that the restaurant ceased operating following the long weekend, but that management has yet to receive the letter from ML&S mentioned above. He claims he has "more insight" into the latest chapter in the Green Room saga, "but is not in a position to discuss it at this time." I'm not sure what exactly that means, of course, but when asked if ownership and management believed they were to receive a new license, he's was quite animated in his confirmation that this was the case.

The staff at the Green Room "are all very disappointed in this latest development," he admits. I have to say that I also feel sorry for them. I'm not sure if I fully made this clear in my original article, but each of the servers I spoke to on the evening that I paid my visit were enthusiastic and forthcoming about the relaunch, an attitude that was not shared by Jessie Tong and the mystery person downstairs. It's a shame that they're once again out of work.

If and when more information comes to light, I'll again update this article.

Update (February 23rd, 2011):

In the process of inquiring about how the Green Room was able to re-acquire its license, I've discovered that my initial suspicions about the re-launch were well grounded. Although I don't have all the specifics quite yet, in an email exchange with Bruce Hawkins at Municipal Licensing Standards, he revealed that "there is currently no valid license for the business. If open, it is operating contrary to the City's by-laws. A new application has been made, but the application process is not yet complete."

More to come soon.

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The new Green Room looks a lot like the old Green Room - and determining the extent of the difference between its latest iteration and the restaurant that was shut down last September is not completely possible on this, a long weekend. But as a new chapter begins in a story that will likely continue to have contested versions, I was at least keen to pay the place a visit to get whatever information I could about its reopening.

Having spoken to an unnamed employee at around 3 p.m., I strolled over just before it was supposed to open in the hopes that there might me someone to talk to. There was -- in fact, a number of restaurant staff were on hand, including the person who would eventually identify herself as the new owner.

Green Room reopenedUpon entrance, I inquired if it'd be possible to ask a few questions about the re-launch, which met with the not altogether surprising response, "that depends on what type of questions." Doing my best not to look sinister, I explained that, more than anything, I was hoping to take some photographs of the new interior. This prompted a potentially revealing deliberation. A women who identified herself as the manager first asked if I'd be willing to come back next week. When I responded that now was the perfect time given that the restaurant was both tidy and unoccupied, she seemed to start to change her mind.

It helped that the first staff member I encountered (he of the "that depends on what type of questions" response) was rather encouraging of the idea. As it turns out, his name is Ryan, and he's the new assistant manager of the Green Room. But despite his enthusiasm, the manager still wasn't fully convinced. Appearing both nervous and suspicious, she asked if I could wait for a moment and then headed downstairs. She then returned a minute later to ask for my business card. Apparently I passed the test, because a few minutes later she reappeared and introduced herself as Jessie Tong. Who she spoke to downstairs was never revealed.

Green Room reopen TorontoAfter ensuring that she wouldn't have to pay for the photographs, Tong opened up a bit and was willing to answer a few questions. First I confirmed the stuff I already knew: the restaurant reopened Friday, will continue to operate seven days a week, and has undergone some renovations. It was at this point that it got interesting. When asked if the Green Room was also under new ownership, Tong responded that she was the new owner. Given her two visits downstairs and the murkiness that's surrounded the ownership of establishment in the past, this is unfortunately not a claim that I can believe without corroboration.

On the other hand, it's worth stressing that I also have no evidence aside from the restaurant's past to suggest otherwise. With Municipal Licensing and Standards closed until Tuesday, definitive answers about the ownership situation and how the restaurant has managed to reopen will have to wait.

Green Room Annex openAs Tong and I continued to chat, her responses became decidedly less specific. When asked when she acquired the business, she responded "a couple of months ago." After further prodding, she noted that it was "all this year," which I took to mean both her putative acquisition of the business and its renovation. But given that the centrepiece of these renovations appears to be a new floor -- which was reportedly already installed when last autumn's tribunal took place (see last link) -- it's again impossible not to doubt Tong's responses.

At one point, I ask her if she'd like to account for the various changes she and her staff have made to ensure that the restaurant doesn't have the same problems with DineSafe inspections its had in the past. She doesn't want to do this. In fact, what she's most interested in establishing is that Green Room hasn't changed. At first this confuses me. Why in the world would anyone working at this restaurant not want to distance it from its checkered past, I wonder. But Tong offers the most convincing response of our chat when she says that she'd like people to "feel that they can come home" to the Green Room. There's new ownership, she repeats, but she doesn't want to change the place too much.

2011221-green_room_upstairs2.jpgSome may scoff at this attitude or accuse Tong of being completely out of touch, but after considering her reasoning for a moment, I acquire a certain understanding of this nostalgic branding strategy. I've always thought the Green Room would be a great bar if it could just get its act together as far as health violations go. But, lest I be too idealistic, the fact of the matter is that for years the restaurant's ownership demonstrated no ability to do so.

Is this set to change?

Well, the Green Room is not off to the best start. When first inspected this time around (on February 15th), it was again guilty of a number of infractions, including inadequate pest control. This is anything but auspicious, and yet it's also important to note that despite the infractions, the restaurant did receive a conditional pass.

As I walk around taking photographs, I chat with employees who helpfully turn on lights in the areas I'm working. One of these people is the aforementioned assistant manager, Ryan. New to the position but familiar to the Green Room (he did some handiwork for the bar in the past), he speaks with an obvious conviction about the future. Although initially hesitant to talk about the ownership situation, he argues that the past problems "were all about philosophy. There is new ownership, yes...but there were problems in the past despite ownership changes. It's a new philosophy that'll keep us from being closed."

I want to believe him. I want to believe that the Green Room has new ownership with a new attitude. This is a place where I used to spend a lot of time, and I have fond memories here. But my visit just doesn't leave me feeling like I'm being told the whole story. For that we'll have to wait until the City of Toronto offices open up on Tuesday.

More photos below:

2011221-green_room_table-ds.jpg2011221-green_room_upstairs.jpg2011221-green_room_corner.jpg2011221-green_room_exterior.jpg

Discussion

40 Comments

Hector / February 20, 2011 at 09:07 pm
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This is a great looking place but considering the shadiness of the business owners and the circumstances surrounding the closing, I don't think I'd ever go back. If they don't trust people to photograph the place and ask questions, why would anyone trust the food from their kitchen?
Wing / February 20, 2011 at 09:11 pm
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“I have find memories here” should probably be “ I have fond memories here”.
Peter / February 20, 2011 at 09:11 pm
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I posted this question on Twitter but I didn't get a reply.

What's the deal with this Green Room soap opera? Who cares? What's the big deal, the place got shut down and now it's back open...so? Am I missing something? There's like hundreds of restaurants in Toronto and there's always story after story on this place on this site.

Is there a larger story here that I am missing, like a statement on the DineSafe inspection program or something? Does the author know the owner or something?? Is this the author's favourite hang-out??

Just what is the big deal???
Elizabeth replying to a comment from Peter / February 20, 2011 at 09:21 pm
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The Green Room just has a special place in the hearts of Annex residents, U of T students and the like. Sure, the pad thai is rice noodles doused with ketchup, but the dark lighting, the odd chairs and old couches, and the melted candles all over wine bottles bring back fond memories. Also, with the corporatization of the Annex, the Green Room remains special to may of us!
Wing / February 20, 2011 at 09:22 pm
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I have to say it is too easy to accidentally click on the “unsubscribe” link. It should be much less conspicuous. Or the backlink to the article should be much more conspicuous.
nb replying to a comment from Peter / February 20, 2011 at 09:24 pm
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thank you! i was just wondering the same thing.
this article reads like a mystery novel!

"the whole story"? what are you expecting to uncover here? other than some slightly negligent owners who can't keep a restaurant clean and rat-free?
accozzaglia / February 20, 2011 at 09:26 pm
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Peter, it was a popular spot for many years. It was kind of woven into the culture and mythos of students — predominantly from the University of Toronto. It was often where people met outside of campus. It figures deeply in the memories of a lot of people — more so than many places.

If there had been a tacit trust between the Green Room and patrons, it was broken when inspectors from DineSafe condemned the place to a (sadly well-earned) ignominy of best a pest resort.
Peter / February 20, 2011 at 09:34 pm
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I was a U of T student as well and I remember going to the place a few times and it was fun. But it was only one of many places to hang out.

And if it was closed down, well sorry guys, then any cachet the place had is completely gone. Find a new hangout people, easy as that. It's not like we aren't in a city with hundreds of other places to hangout.
Kasia / February 20, 2011 at 10:07 pm
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Oh Pete, don't be such a spoil-sport. Intrigue! More intrigue! Is the management different at the other Green Room-esque places, like Pour Boy on Manning, or the Red Room or Java House on Queen?

Or am I misinformed about how connected they are?
Adam H. / February 20, 2011 at 10:12 pm
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So, did they keep any of the old rats on staff for the opening?

The worst restaurant meal and the worst service I ever had, was at the Green Room. I'd never go back.
eyes hurt / February 20, 2011 at 10:13 pm
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Let me explain this painful article in a single paragraph:

omg so I went to the Green Room and I talked to a guy and then this other guy and then some other person and I went inside and I took pictures and I talked to an assistant manager or something and then the person and then this person and the owner and omg then i talked to someone but I don't know anything else other than that.
Derek replying to a comment from eyes hurt / February 20, 2011 at 10:22 pm
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But they're nice pictures, right? I'm having a crisis of confidence. At least give me that or I won't be able to sleep...
Cindy replying to a comment from Derek / February 20, 2011 at 10:24 pm
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lolz.
Greg Shortall / February 20, 2011 at 10:30 pm
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>When first inspected this time around (on February 15th), it was again guilty of a number of infractions, including inadequate pest control.

Wait - what? Also, the draft beer there was always vile. Have they cleaned the pipes I wonder? It was like they poured that stuff through a bum's asshole. I won't be rushing to go back.

eyes hurt / February 20, 2011 at 10:55 pm
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WE KNOW YOU'RE EXCITED AND TICKLED THAT IT'S RE-OPENING
WHY DO THEY HAVE TO TELL YOU THEIR ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE
AND WHO OWNS WHAT AND THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER THING
CHRIST GIVE THEM A WEEK OR TWO TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER
WORD OF ADVICE DO NOT EVER EVER EVER DRINK THE DRAUGHT THERE
BOTTLES-O-BEER ONLY
YES CAPS LOCK DAMMIT
Elizabeth / February 20, 2011 at 10:57 pm
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the way you wrote this makes it seem you were trying to imply shady business ownership, like a mafia front or something.

I doubt that's the case
Jeff Blake / February 20, 2011 at 11:17 pm
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Yikes, Derek, I love you site and all, but, this article is so overboard. Like, it wasn't like you were a newspaper reporter going in there asking questions. She probably had no idea what Blogto was for one. Second, I would be suspicious of some guy coming into my business and starting to ask me questions about ownership, etc.

I think you do them a disservice by writing your article like that. It was almost comical reading it on my end.. Hopefully others take it the same way (although, not your original intent) and laugh it off.

Greg replying to a comment from Elizabeth / February 20, 2011 at 11:18 pm
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Print reader? Following links would avoid confusion. The reason the Green Room lost their license is that the last prospective owner was deemed to be a front for the former. Torontoist has the details. Stop doubting.
Keith / February 20, 2011 at 11:42 pm
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It's not like The Greatest Place in Toronto.... C'mon, you talked about this place once - enough!
simple / February 20, 2011 at 11:51 pm
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To be honest, this article is pretty fair. Not sure what's got bees in everyone's bonnets.
vern / February 21, 2011 at 01:21 am
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Derek, worry not, I'm totally the person this article was written for. I spent a lot of time at the Green Room though my late teens and twenties, and whenever I am back home in Toronto, which is frequent enough, it's just about the only place I want to meet up with friends—not because we don't know anywhere else to go, but just because, well, it's the Green Room! Some friends in Toronto grew sick of the place long ago but relent whenever I insist, and we eat cold food provided through mediocre service, and flick away the crud on chairs in dark corners, and we have a great time. Following the GR saga only from a distance, I want to know every little detail. Thanks.
hadurr / February 21, 2011 at 02:32 am
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Derek, I am pro Derek. Tell me what is not admirable and engaging about an involved denizen of a very, very distinctive part of the city expressing interest in some of its history and current events?? This is what SO much of this 'online' community is about - why be so nitpicky about the content? I am thrilled with this well written and photo-journalized recount of a neighborhood haunt that has played a large part, although trivial, in the lives of so many Torontonians
hadurr / February 21, 2011 at 02:32 am
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Also, yes the photos are beautiful!!
Eric26 / February 21, 2011 at 04:18 am
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What I learned from this:
If you can find patrons as stupid as you are, you can have a successful business. Makes sense.
anon / February 21, 2011 at 07:35 am
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worst. service. ever.
Sean replying to a comment from Peter / February 21, 2011 at 07:55 am
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Peter, I agree with you. Like yourself, I too was a student at U of T. I went to The Green Room a bunch of times but, I did not feel a great loss when it closed because restaurants close down all the time. That being said, this story is absolutely hilarious since The New Green Room sounds wonderfully shady. I might pay it a visit in hopes of seeing the mystery man that Jessie Tong was talking to (I suspect it was her lawyer).

Also, Mr. Crisis of Confidence, your photos look great as per usual.
Stra / February 21, 2011 at 08:59 am
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spinning wheels again. Derek - I swear sometimes you suffer from writer's block and just spew to get yourself out of it. Unfortunately you publish the end drivel. This article's a mess duder. Pictures are nice though.
Ryan / February 21, 2011 at 11:14 am
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I'm glad you are still covering the Green Room saga, even if this article isn't the best-written thing around. It's good to know that I'll again be able to get delicious sangria and cheap beer at an Annex staple – though I'll certainly never dine there again, as I have not for a long time.
Michael / February 21, 2011 at 12:05 pm
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I don't know why you *had* to publish this *right now*, if you needed to wait until Tuesday to corroborate facts with the city office. Why not just wait until Tuesday after you've completed your fact-checking to publish this?

I know the Green Room has a checkered past, but this article is kind of unfair to the (new?) owners.
Axeworthy / February 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm
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It's the same owner. Despite the sharpness and almost complete lack of improvements, there's one way I know for sure: the butt painting. The butt painting was commissioned many, many years ago by the owner (who shall remain nameless), supposedly of some server he had a thing for. He would never leave it. Now, this doesn't mean the place doesn't have new fallguy ownership, but the old owner is definitely there somewhere. Hey, I love the place, and have an old relationship with it, but I really wish they had done a bit more to renovate. I'm not sure there has ever been a restaurant that's closed that made more people sad, but deserved it more.
Eric26 / February 22, 2011 at 07:12 am
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I went there with my friend last night because he suffers from nostalgia. I did my very best to ruin his night but he was determined. He ordered food for some reason. I guess this place could be clean. After all, the fat cockroach I saw was in a urinal, not in the food.
The Chimp / February 22, 2011 at 08:45 am
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It was dodgy when I went there in the 80's before the fancy health signs and inedible pad thai. Even in my addled state I was smart enough to only order booze... :-p
New Philosophy / February 26, 2011 at 08:46 pm
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If there is new ownership, shouldn't everyone who have enjoyed the Green Room in the past give it the benefit of the doubt and go there with an open mind? As far as the food goes, just because you might have had a problem there in the past doesn't mean it will be the same under the new management. We should support this place as it is an Annex staple that is a great hangout if run correctly.
M / February 27, 2011 at 11:59 am
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I feel like this would be a great food network project ... Just saying.
D / March 3, 2011 at 02:42 pm
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I used to work at nirvana which is owned by the same people, and Jessie was the assistant manager there at the time (despite being hilariously unqualified and speaking very little english). If she's "managing" Green Room it is definitely not under new ownership.
Dr / March 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm
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Trust me this is the same owner as the past. "William Pham" Just read the health infractions from the past and you will understand why this place should be closed.
J / August 13, 2011 at 06:08 pm
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Hey does anyone know if this place is still open?
J / August 13, 2011 at 06:09 pm
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I walked by and it looked pretty dead..
abt / December 11, 2011 at 11:10 am
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I saw a sign for a Green Room drink special out on the sidewalk on Bloor on a Friday night but the place looked closed. Any updates?
Roger / December 19, 2011 at 01:41 pm
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The Green Room has been open for several months now. They just like to keep their lights very dim, unlike in the photos above. They had a green DineSafe PASS card in the window the last few times I've been by there.

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