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New in Toronto real estate: 365 Church Condos

Posted by Robyn Urback / February 14, 2013

365 church condos toronto365 Church Street is one of the most anticipated condo launches of 2013. So far. With a great plot of land at Church and Carlton, this project will surely seduce Ryerson students and/or those who hope to rent to Ryerson students. Rising nearly 30 storeys with a three-storey podium at its base, this building will offer all of those sweet, sweet condo extras, minus square footage in your suite. Here is a closer look at 365 Church Condos.

365 church condos torontoSPECS

Address: 365 Church St

Floors: 29

Total number of units: 359

Elevators: 3

Types of units: Studio, one bedroom, one-plus-den, two bedroom, three bedroom

Unit sizes (in square feet): 323 - 804

Ceiling heights: 8' and 9'

Prices from: $200,000

Parking: $50,000 (for select suites)

Maintenance fees: $0.55/s.f. +hydro

Developer: Menkes Developments

Architect: Wallman Architects

Amenities: Theatre room, rooftop terrace, party room, gym, yoga studio, reading room

Expected occupancy: Spring 2017

365 church condos torontoTHE GOOD

Menkes should probably just call this one "INCOME PROPERTY!!!" because that's probably how most potential buyers will see it. 365 Church says 'student' all the way, with bitty 300-square-foot studios and a fantastic location that's just steps from Ryerson's campus. In terms of immediate vicinity, this spot can't be beat. Across the street from the Maple Leaf Gardens Loblaws (where you can get a doctor's note, a mortgage, and a slab of parmesan all in one stop), this condo will have everything a September-to-May resident will need including coffee down the road, plenty of restaurants in the Village, late night cheap eats, and the College TTC station a few steps away. Granted, the rendering of the building isn't terribly inspired, but it's surely an improvement on the sad parking lot and low concrete shops currently occupying the designated space.

365 church condos torontoSo, will 365 Church be the rich man's Neill-Wycik? Turns out he may not have to be so rich, after all (relatively speaking, of course). So-called "insider" pricing for a unit at 365 Church starts at an eyebrow-raising $575-ish per square foot, leading me to believe there must be a catch. A new condo priced as resale? Perhaps Menkes (rightfully) realizes that no one wants to spend upwards of $650 to $700 per square foot for a unit he or she is going to rent out to a rowdy group of urban planning students, with their mommies and daddies as co-signers. A parking spot will gouge you, of course, at $50,000 for a little concrete square, but for a slice of real estate that will seemingly always be in demand by post-secondary students, potential investors can surely do a lot worse. (See: CityPlace.)

365 church condos torontoTHE BAD

What an adorable motel kitchenette. I bet you could really heat up some frozen entrées in that bad boy. This is surely compact living at its most exaggerated, with a 300-square-foot box presented as a complete living space. Mind you, that might be OK for a first-year dorm room, but these studios are built to include bathrooms, kitchen areas, and living and sleeping spaces. God help you if you want to move in a bookshelf or two. It also seems to me that Menkes missed an opportunity to incorporate more two- and three-bedroom units (aren't "family-sized condos" all the rage now?), especially since cohabitation-minded students will surely flock to this address. Nevertheless, I suspect many of those one-plus-den plans (especially where the dens come equipped with a door) will end up housing two students during the year.

But the high proportion of tenants over owners and fairly rapid turnover will surely take its toll on the integrity of the building. Literally and figuratively. This building will definitely see some in/out migration between school semesters, and I assume tenants won't be as gentle on common elements as might someone who is paying off a mortgage. And if I haven't already gotten the stereotype police on guard, I'll just say that I suspect Friday and Saturday night noise might be an issue. Rage on.

365 church condos torontoTHE VERDICT

Better than Neill-Wycik.

What do you think? Would you live here? Add your comments to the thread below.

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Discussion

37 Comments

steve / February 14, 2013 at 08:59 am
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I live in a condo adjacent to Ryerson and no your not being too stereotypical.
Maybe, just maybe, if these kids (cannot call them young adults) become property owners they will learn how to be responsible adults.
steve replying to a comment from steve / February 14, 2013 at 09:00 am
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OMG your=you're.
LineUpLineUp! / February 14, 2013 at 09:51 am
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I'll be first in line at Mickey Finns !
Aaron / February 14, 2013 at 10:08 am
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How can they have three bedroom units if the largest one is 804 sq. ft? I'm afraid to look at the floor plan for that.
Todd Toronto / February 14, 2013 at 10:16 am
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No streetfront retail? Seems like a waste.
JAAAAAAAT replying to a comment from steve / February 14, 2013 at 10:48 am
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yes, living next to any school with 30k+ undergraduates will have youth that do not own property, and the surrounding area will face some depreciation because of the constantly fluctuating population. Why would any 19 year old own property?
This is the case for every area surrounding an institution as large as ryerson.
Cyril Sneer / February 14, 2013 at 10:50 am
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No fume hood over the stove?
Kat / February 14, 2013 at 11:18 am
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where does the fridge go?
matts replying to a comment from Kat / February 14, 2013 at 12:17 pm
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...it's already there
joe / February 14, 2013 at 12:31 pm
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Condo's are ridiculous, you never own...your always paying something..fees, taxes, just ridiculous. and these condo's will be run down in 5 years after students get a hold of them..
JB replying to a comment from joe / February 14, 2013 at 01:53 pm
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Houses are ridiculous, you never own. You're always paying something... roof repairs, hydro bills, taxes. just ridiculous.
Rob replying to a comment from JB / February 14, 2013 at 02:19 pm
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You also don't pay for a gym, concierge, Olympic-sized swimming pool, and 24 hour security that you don't use.
Sophia / February 14, 2013 at 03:07 pm
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I can say first hand that 300 sq ft can certainly be a 'complete living space' for a single young person.
Right replying to a comment from Sophia / February 14, 2013 at 03:46 pm
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I couldn't even fit the furniture from my living room into 300sqft.... How someone can manage or would even want to live in a shoebox is beyond me..
george replying to a comment from Right / February 14, 2013 at 04:26 pm
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Lived 3 years in a 354 sqft studio condo in Boston. It was awesome. Killer location,high cielings, historical building. Never once felt crammed for space.
Milo replying to a comment from Rob / February 14, 2013 at 05:33 pm
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I think i'd rather pay for a gym and 24 security I dont use - than for a backyard in the sticks I dont use either.
Arturo / February 14, 2013 at 05:40 pm
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Hey look! A building for robots to live in.
TOBlogTrash / February 14, 2013 at 06:40 pm
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Oh god, we've been subjected to yet another idiotic review by RU. If you hate condos so much, find another job and let someone do a real review without the wannabe snarky comments.
TOBlogTrash replying to a comment from Cyril Sneer / February 14, 2013 at 06:41 pm
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It's require by law and it's likely a low profile fan....
TOBlogTrash replying to a comment from Kat / February 14, 2013 at 06:43 pm
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It's built-in
TOBlogTrash replying to a comment from Todd Toronto / February 14, 2013 at 06:44 pm
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Yeah, there will be retail....
Aaron / February 14, 2013 at 10:49 pm
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Insta-dump! Will fit right into its dumpy surroundings.
john / February 15, 2013 at 11:04 am
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why so many haters? how many of you have ever purchased a condo?
john replying to a comment from Aaron / February 15, 2013 at 11:07 am
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surroundings change, this may be the catalyst.
Sophia replying to a comment from Right / February 15, 2013 at 12:04 pm
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It's hardly a question of 'wanting' - not everyone can afford a spacious apartment.
Aaron replying to a comment from john / February 15, 2013 at 02:22 pm
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Indeed, a catalyst for further dumpifying. This POS looks like a ghetto-slab from the 60's.
Rob / February 15, 2013 at 02:47 pm
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It's kind of sad that the city can't plan for affordable student places and thinks scumbag international investors will make up the difference.

Yeah. Right. $5 a sf per month is what these will rent for.
steve replying to a comment from Rob / February 15, 2013 at 04:32 pm
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Those same scumbag international investors keep the construction workers employed who in turn drive the economy.
juhh-ohn replying to a comment from john / February 15, 2013 at 06:09 pm
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why so many haters? because most of these comments are dead-on. this thing will be a wreck to live in for anyone who buys to occupy themselves. noise complaints like crazy, and the concierge will NOT be of assistance. sigh
Rob replying to a comment from steve / February 19, 2013 at 01:43 pm
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Not really. RE wealth isn't real wealth. It's a ponzi scheme with a bottom that will fall out if applied to other industries.

What do you call a system that requires buildings to be largely pre-sold before they're built and not a single Torontonian can be found in the pre-sale meetings for "premier investors"?

That's not creating wealth... that's a bunch of guys at the top moving pennies around.
Alex replying to a comment from Rob / February 19, 2013 at 03:14 pm
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It wouldn't make any sense to build something when you have no money for it, so obviously they need to be a certain percentage pre-sold before construction begins.

I agree it's terrible that they specifically target foreign investors for the pre-sales, so all the best units are bought up by foreigners. They should make rules to prevent that sort of thing, but everyone is making so much money off the system that way I guess no one cares.
Rob replying to a comment from Alex / February 19, 2013 at 03:43 pm
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Ontario is unique with regards to its pre-sale rules. Other regions don't have this requirement (70% I believe) in order for shovels to go into the ground... and, surprise, there are far fewer shovels in the ground elsewhere.

When you only need to do 70% of something, everyone suffers and we've seen what happens when the pre-sale is more important than the construction or actual finished product. Pedestrians walking underneath these fortresses of dropping glass panes are acutely aware, in fact. It's no secret that the finished product suffers as soon as they get their requirement to build. There's no system of checks and balances in place to ensure that those buying after the pre-sale are protected like those scumbag international investors.
iSkyscraper replying to a comment from Rob / February 19, 2013 at 04:18 pm
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Well, grass is always greener. You are positing that since there will essentially be zero sales once the building is built, there is no need to have a solidly-built building. Interesting theory, though I would think that the fact that some units always remain unsold is strong enough incentive to make the building stand up for at least a little while. More likely that the poor quality is simply a function of economics -- condos in Toronto are mostly starter homes or future rental units, not pure luxury products as they are in other cities, so there is tremendous pressure to keep the costs down. (This is also why they are smaller than condos in other cities).

On the other hand, Ontario has some pretty terrific regulations and protections that other areas can only dream of. Did you know that in, say, New Jersey you can just make up how you count square footage? As long as you disclose it somewhere it's kosher. Ontario has strict rules for that sort of thing.

As for the falling-glass thing, this is hardly a Toronto issue. You just hear about it more in Toronto because there are more glass condos here. Everything falls off of buildings eventually, regardless of the material. New York City had so many bricks and bits of concrete and stone falling off of its buildings that they passed a law requiring buildings (6 stories and higher) to go through a very expensive physical check and repair of building facades on a cycle of every five years. This is why roughly 20% of all Manhattan sidewalks are always covered by some sort of sidewalk shed with scaffolding above. As Toronto becomes more of a high-rise city this sort of law will become inevitable here too.
Old Lady Hippie / March 1, 2013 at 03:32 pm
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Watch this corner turn into the new Jarvis/Charles. Next to go will be the Social Service building on the corner (already under application at 355 Church), then the lot on the other side and eventually Guu. Awful.
Johnny Canuck replying to a comment from Rob / April 19, 2013 at 02:46 pm
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In this neighborhood, you most certainly would WANT to pay for security. 24hr security!
John Harvard / December 24, 2013 at 07:23 pm
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I live on the condo next door (86 Gerrard East) and I am waiting anxiously for the comparables. I love my condo - 1,400 sqft, corner unit, I can see the towers of 6 different churches from my huge balcony with solarium (and pray on none of them) and have a chocolate martini while enjoying the couple of hawks that live on top of the antena tower at Ryerson dive into supersonic speed to score some pigents with the beautiful skyline of Toronto downtown in the back. My building has only 5 units per floor and only 24 floors, and have been recently completely renovated, including exterior, new elevator, new security system, and newly redesigned lobby to come... But, (What-the-heck! There is always a but...) I have two beautiful kids, 3 and 4, and with no excellent (good is not enough) schools around we are moving out to a new home - our first house. So, if you want to take a look on your options, please reply to this posting and I will contact you somehow.
Kolowrotki Gruntowe / December 28, 2013 at 01:57 am
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The image above shows the sweeping montage of Lees Ferry in the walk-in area, looking
downstream from the lower boulders fishing xp area. Three years ago about three years ago,
the Flat Ranch I went.

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