City
Mayoral candidates talk Tamils, fair wage, TTC
Last evening's mayoral debate was alive with overdrawn rhetoric and cheap name-calling. There were even a few "shame"s thrown from the irate in the audience. A few slow claps and lots of shaking heads, but all in all, this fourth debate again just confirmed that municipal politics are best followed with a stiff drink in hand.
The first disappointment of the evening was, of course, learning that Ben (it's too easy) Mulroney would not be in attendance. His absence was remedied by a surprise front-rower, however; Mr. John Tory. (Rumour had it that Tory would be there, but of course, he wouldn't confirm the speculation.)
The first topic of discussion was the Hay Group report recommending that the Toronto mayor receive a pay raise of $16,000. As they've done before, all candidates predictably scoffed off the recommendation, with Smitherman going a step forward to chastise Council for commissioning a $50,000 study. Pantalone responded by calling Smitherman "Mr. Negative" and saying that he "hates knowledge." And no, I can't make this up.
On to the next municipal issue--immigration. Talk turned to the Tamil migrants who recently landed in British Columbia. Pantalone and Thomson emphasized the economic benefits of productive immigrant communities, Rossi talked about the need for better integration while Smitherman slammed Ford for a prior comment he made saying Toronto should be a "refugee-free zone."
"The bottom line," Ford said last night, "is we can't take care of the 2.5 million we already have here." Pantalone piped in, asking Ford to retract his previous comment on refugees, and Rossi gently reminded Ford that Toronto's next mayor has to walk and chew gum at the same time. Smitherman said that if Canada had turned down refugees in the past, it wouldn't have absorbed the Irish community during the potato famine, or Jews during the Holocaust, which probably wasn't the best example.
After a few audience-directed questions followed by predicable answers, Tory got his chance at the mic. He challenged the candidates to set four or five specific policy goals, to which Ford announced his plan to abolish the city's Fair Wage Policy. The policy essentially requires the city to pay contract workers the same amount as permanent employees. Ford called it the "unfair wage policy," and I wondered how much he pays his speech writer.
The announcement incited some audience members to yell "Shame!," while distracting moderator Stephen LeDrew from the fact that Thomson and Pantalone didn't get a chance to respond to Tory's challenge. *Sigh* Always a bridesmaid...
On to the TTC, which Rossi thinks should be privatized, though Thomson doesn't think it will get any bites. Smitherman said he believes parts of the TTC should be privatized calling the state of cleanliness on the TTC "a disgrace." Ford wants to keep the TTC public, and expressed his support for TTC workers.
Rounding up the evening:
- Thomson called out Smitherman out on the eHealth scandal
- Smitherman called out Thomson on her $14 billion (gulp) subway expansion plans
- Ford called out Pantalone on the Tuggs Inc.'s 20-year exclusive beaches contract
- Pantalone called out Rossi on wanting to privatize Toronto Hydro
- And Rossi called out Ford for taking too much credit on Woodbine Live
So what did we learn from the evening? Well, Ben Mulroney had twins. But like most other things discussed last night, that was already old news.
Photos by Dennis Marciniak
Discussion
76 Comments
Sort By Oldest First / Newest First
Subscribe
Also, you'll notice that while other candidates are discussing transit expansion plans, eHealth, Hydro, etc., Ford's big concern is some beverage stand in the Beach. He has a history of making big hay out of tiny, tiny issues. Has he given up the whole Kyle Rae retirement party thing yet?
In summary, Ford sucks.
It's still shocking how there are actually people still supporting Smitherman, holding up his signs and even mentioning him. It's no different than an abused person who keeps going back to the abuser. Wake up and STAND UP! Common sense - oh wait a sec, this is after all something lacking in Toronto these days, which is a part of the "low point." As for those in the media and broadcasts who do support the agenda-ridden and criminal Smitherman, nevermind them as they are the status quo and tampered goods who have to do with affiliations, favours, bias or agenda. They're a lost cause.
Something new in Canada
Unfunded transit plans, and eHealth scandals and waste, are both on par with the corrupt decision making process that has plagued city hall through the Miller regime
Smitherman = E-HEALTH, drug addict, putting sex change operations as more important than cancer and patient care.
As for Rossi, he's okay, but that doesn't do the job. He has too many affiliations with the same-old same-old status quo that has pushed Toronto down for too long now.
Remember the key is a FRESH START. This means a fresh candidate who is not linked or tied with the same-old routine, group and trend in city hall.
I have yet to hear Ford even mention an issue. His whole platform is built on pettiness. A mayor needs to have a sense of vision, not dwell on who spent what and where.
"Wow, if the general population of Toronto believes in a wife abusing bigot, then I give up on humanity."
You are a banjo-picking moron.
Ford was NOT CHARGED with beating his wife, so get your facts straight, tard boy!
It would be kinda cool to have a woman for mayor...clearly the guys arent working out very well.
Exactly, and how is Ford NOT part of the same-old routine?
Who are these pro-Ford commenters? Your candidate is STUPID. Objectively so, and totally unable to criticize himself or think in a complicated way about anything.
I'm not saying Smitherman or anyone else is so great either. The whole lot of the are weak. But Ford is still distinguished by virtue of his extraordinary pig-headed stupidity.
He was arrested for something though. A wife doesn't call the police on her husband for nothing.
Besides, it's not a politician's job to take to do exactly what constituents want in every circumstance. Politicians should be elected based on their ability to think critically and lead and make hard decisions that may sometimes be unpopular, not just respond to polls and outraged phone calls like trained monkeys.
Sprry, I can't believe I misread your comment "wife abusing bigot." How silly of me? We're you suggesting emotional abuse, perhaps?
Wise up.
Ford, we already know about him and I think he's not one to divulge or brag about ideas right away. That's good because he must be aware about the easy routine of politicians listing everything they intend to do (all talk!) in order to woo people and get voted in, though the ideas never end up happening! Thomson, she's the only candidate who heavily presses on the subway/transit issue and has ideas towards that, but she's the only one to have another innovative idea which is the building plan idea - the plan to allow developers who are willing to invest in design, to be fast-tracked through city hall bureaucracy. This is also something Toronto really needs as buildings are just going up without care or respect in design and the city's history and original mode.
I'll be at Nathan Phillips Square at 2pm today to express my dissatisfaction with Ford.
He clearly has no value for the lives of cyclists, the homeless, those with HIV/Aids, and now the backbone of our city. I'm proud to live in a city of great diversity and will continually vocalize my distaste for those who attempt to undermine its inhabitants.
I fervently support those candidates like Rocco Rossi who promise conservative fiscal spending and support the values of our city. I'm voting Rossi for Mayor on October 25th!
<i>Exclusive</i>, i.e. no competition, 20-year beaches contract: "beverage stand in the Beach"
Cut unnecessary councillor expenses in that fly in the 20-50K+ range <b>each</b>: "paper clips"
Cut wasteful spending and bloated projects: "pennies"
E-HEALTH: "what e-health?"
Toronto doesn't spend 1 Billion on G20, cave to Union demands, let project costs balloon (TTC LRT, Open Fare, York Subway), etc, because that's "just want happens"...
But you know, ignore these issues because you think Ford's fat, or mean, or too old-school, or not talking about <b>your</b> issues; we can just keep taxing citizens out the nose, Toronto's not a city that tries to fix itself, <i>anymore</i>.
Ford views the city as an expense that needs to be cut, Pantalone views the city as a big piggy bank to fund his unions cronies, Smitherman views the city as a big piggy bank to fund his consulting cronies, and Rossi views the city as a big yard sale.
"Im appalled by Ford's comments. I firmly believe Ford's comments are close minded, ignorant, and offend the spirit of our great city."
That's super duper! So, when can all these illegals coming to Canada -- many, I'm sure with links to the Tamil tigers and other criminal groups -- expect to receive a portion of your parcheque to pay for their housing, food, and welfare?
Thought so.
Hypocrite.
Hypocrite.
Miller is far from perfect, he's made plenty of mistakes. But, Ford? Rob Ford? YOu just have to be completely out to lunch or a very bitter and angry person to vote for this guy.
Even if, say, he were to get elected. There is still going to be the vast majority of councillors who will oppose his every word because, well, he's not a smart guy and we already know he doesn't really have any idea or vision or insight. What will Toronto look like with Ford as mayor?
Forget the waterfront, too much money. Forget doing anything about the Gardiner, too much money. Forget public transit, forget bike lanes, forget affordable housing construction, forget it all. What we'll have, based on Ford's vision thus far, is a penny-pinching, cynical city with cops in every school, fair wages for good workers, your friends and neighbours a thing of the past, a mass exodus of city builders, and businesses, an end to transit expansion, an end to toronto as a green, bike friendly city. It is all over if this chump, this moron, gets elected.
I know you're all angry at Miller. Fine, be angry. But educate yourselves. The information is all out there. Read it. Don't take this option. The city will die.
But does anyone think Ford will give a crap? I'm absolutely positive that he doesn't care at all about architectureal heritage or modern design. He'll support whatever is cheapest (excuse me, most "cost-effective.") I also absolutely guarantee that he would in virtually all instances support developers instead of heritage advocates or community members. (Yes, I'm assuming here, admittedly.)
In response to agentsmith, the key word is "pandering." Pandering is bad, regardless of who you're pandering too. It means you're parroting what they say and contributing no idas of your own. It means you're guided by opinion polls and knee-jerk populism rather than logic of nuance. It doesn't mean you properly represent anyone, it means you do whatever it takes to get and stay elected.
And to Mike W, way to willfully misunderstand what we Ford detractors are saying. we're not implying that finance issues are irrelevant. We're saying that Ford gets hung up on weird little personal vendettas and extremist penny-pinching and isn't able to see that there's more to being mayor than saving taxpayer money.
Where is this idea coming from that Toronto is a broken city in need of fixing anyway? It ain't perfect, but it works better than most. Get out of town and see the way other cities operate before you start bleating on about how poorly-managed TO is. (Those private-enterprise, low-tax havens of Aurora and Mississauga would be a good place to start.)
Tard boy.
Spoken like a true Ford supporter! Next up, Orientals!
Exactly, all of these are a waste of taxpayer money!
I am changing camps. I WAS pro-Ford, but he just appeals to the angry tax-payer in me. Thomson is the smart choice for Toronto going forward.
The mayor is the face of a city, and I personally don't want our mayor looking like he would keel over after climbing a few flights of stairs.
Rob Ford looks like he could be the mayor of Windsor, Sudbury or Hamilton but Toronto?
And since it's safe to assume that this new boatload of Tamils do not have visas, I'd say that they are by definition illegal immigrants, until their refugee claims are successful. And those whose claims are refused will most likely remain here illegally, since it's not reasonable to presume that they'll return to Sri Lanka on their own given the state of things there, and Canada is notoriously lax at deporting rejected refugee claimants.
Please stop participating in our democracy until you crack a few civics texts.
Since when is it racist to stand up against ILLEGAL immigration? Sorry, despite what the bleeding heart lefties on blogTo may think, it is not Canada's duty to let any and everyone into this country (and then their entire extended family...and then support them while encouraging them NOT to integrate into our society...and stand by while they promote their terrorist group)
Thomson CAN win this....she needs to be heard more over the others (which is tough with Ford and Smitherman constantly at each other)."
Sure she can win... in an alternate universe, perhaps, when you eat with your ass, and poop from your mouth.
"Regardless of Rob Fords platform, I could never give my vote to a candidate who is obviously out of shape and over weight."
And I could never give my vote to a candidate who is fat, bald, uneducated, corrupt, stole a billion dollars from Ontario taxpayers, and takes it up the ass.
"Since when is it racist to stand up against ILLEGAL immigration?"
When you're bleating about "ILLEGALS" primarily because of who they are and because they make an easy target, and their icky suspect other-ness is your major complaint, it starts to look racist (and not rational) pretty quickly. Now, you may well try to argue that's not you, except:
"... support them while encouraging them NOT to integrate into our society...and stand by while they promote their terrorist group"
You deny racism, but then immediately launch into all manner of smearing, other-ing, and outright labelling of any and all such folks as actual terrorists? LOL ... geez man. Way to totally paint yourself into a corner.
If you're the picture of tolerance in the Ford camp, I sure as heck don't want to meet the real hardliners.
The real indication Ford isn't cut out to be mayor is that he is so swayed by these hot-button issues, and so unable to pick his battles, he can be almost immediately derailed from his supposed fiscally-minded approach. Who's going to pay for all the police officers he wants to put in schools? Why is he spinning his wheels on federal issues he'd have next to no pull on? Ford's ADHD-like approach to flashy issues just does not inspire.
Most of them have grown up silver-spooned and are career politicians.
Ford, in particular, has sucked from his father's teat his entire life.
Add his bigotry and you have a very short-sighted, snake-oil salesmen, whose entire career has been spent picking on low-hanging fruit.
However Miller still caved for the unions and every citizen I knew was willing to put up with their garbage as long as it took to knock the union back.
You talk about city council as a team yet place the past gross expenditures on the exiting Miller alone?
I haven't seen any vision or insight from any candidate, so to attribute this quality or lack thereof to Ford alone is pretty biased.
What does Ford have to do with cops in every school? City builders? Ending transit expansion? He advocates responsible spending, not NO spending.
You're implying he'll cut every but that's uninformed at best and at worst, misleading.
You baselessly think he's a chump and moron (who's on city council no less. Even I can give Miller some credit) and that every Ford supporter is a fool, crazy, angry, "out to lunch" without looking at the rational behind their support? Then maybe it's you who needs to be educated.
Finally, Toronto will have a mayor that it can be proud of...Mr Ford.
Keep kicking A$$ Rob - especially that clown Rossi after his sad attempt to confront you in front of City Hall.
FORD ALL THE WAY!!!!
all I know is who Im not voting for.
Ford needs to ride a bike.
Hooray for pandering to people's fears to win votes! (Ugh.)
"Oh god, it was inevitable that sooner or later they would show up. Here come Rob Ford's left and right testicle (aka: Olaf and Randy)."
Well, there's no guessing where Sphincterman's dick is right now -- in your mouth.
Don't forget to floss!
I just wish the media wouldn't pick their own favourites but give us (the voters) a chance to EQUALLY see and hear all the other candidates running for the job. In the meantime, Rob Ford has my vote.
Where is the friendly, tolerant, forward-looking city I remember? So now we have a mayoral race where there are no realistic plans to improve the TTC, no plans to improve bike infrastructure, and the leader is a guy against clearing sidewalks??
Luckily I have nothing to do for the next two months so can spend it canvassing for someone who has a vision for the city. Any idiot can balance the budget without providing any services, the challenge is to provide services on budget.
The problem, 'S', is that it's precisely the most mouthy "fiscal" types who very often prove completely incapable of following through on it. Ford not wanting to see the city in heavy debt has no bearing whatsoever on his actual ability to avoid it. There is something lacklustre about what be brings to the table other than his mouth that should give you pause when he spouts the rote fiscal responsibility talk; think back to similar speechifying from our Prime Minister and the subsequent mess we find ourselves in -- the ability to follow through w/ actual fiscal ability (vs. fiscal soundbites) just wasn't there. Ford will make that look by comparison. Even within his own campaign blather, the numbers don't add up.
Rob Ford gets my vote.
Any yet look where the city has gotten itself.
But hey if you can find a candidate that is better for the city (not just for <i>you</i>) I'll vote for that candidate too.
Until then Ford gets my vote out of these slim pickings.
When Ford is elected I just want the people that keep whining about rabid Ford supporters and "they must be crazy to vote Ford" talking point repeaters and "fear mongering!" complainers and "he's ___ist like 75% of the population!" idiots to realize this:
You, or your camp, aren't an intellectual/humanitarian anomoly.
Your fellow citizens voted Ford in.
They are just as informed and uninformed as you are.
Get over yourself.
Why? Because he's the loudest?
They're all a load of duds, I'll give you that, but don't vote for this glazed ham, Elmer Fudd - knob of a candidate.
He should not be charge of a city with a 6 billion dollar operating budget.
You might want to check your ignorance before the "Add Comment" button though, because if you really think people are voting on the criteria of "loudest" don't bother replying.
The focus on Smitherman should be his eHealth record.