TTC Fare Hike Approved

utterly, absolutely pathetic. i think toronto city council is where D- policy students go to rot.

there are no words sufficient to explain what a ridiculous and crippling attitude both toronto as well as their provincial and federal counterparts take to public transit.

riders pay for a higher percentage of public transit in toronto than in basically ANY OTHER major developed world country in the world. this has to stop.

This fare hike is bull shit. The service is underfunded and faces yearly budget shortfalls. I'm not paying $3.00 for more incompetence and mismanagement, how about I just keep paying $2.75 out of protest.

The system is broken: Bring back provincial operating subsidies for the TTC, email your MPP or MP. People blame the Harris government for removing the subsidies, but McGuinty and Co are just as complicit for not reinstating them.

Boohoo, what a bunch of whiners all you commenters are. Just stop your crying and start jumping the turnstiles. Its cheaper and you get some good exercise.

If y'all are angry I hope you're phoning up McGuinty and Harper (or your local MPP/MP) and demanding greater government subsidization of public transit.

The TTC relies so heavily on fares because it doesn't get nearly as much money from government as other transit systems. GET ON IT PEOPLE.

It is pricks like you that help sway the councils decision jackass!
I'm with Peter and Damien, going to just invest in some good runners and boots for 2010.

I admit, I grew up in the 905. Among other things, I remember getting fed up over the fare hikes for BOTH YRT and TTC (with YRT being more aggressive) just to get to school, paying the full adult price. Now that I live in downtown, I consistently choose walking over TTC anyday if I can help it.

Anyway, would the student discount for university students extend to tokens? Also, just want to point out that the discounted metropases from UTSU go for 96 right now. Don't know whether this would continue.

Nice little socialist package they hid in here, under the guise of a silver-lining to the fare increase: full fare riders subsidizing discounted fares for post-secondary students. Fares are going UP for everyone else, while their's are going down. Wonder how much that little freebie is costing the "cash strapped" TTC?

At $6 a day, its cheaper for me to just drive to work and park there. For people without free/cheap parking downtown? Sorry. For everyone else? Lets cook the environment! I for one think I'll drive around in 1st and 2nd gear only.

In 1968, adult TTC fare was $0.25. There was a two zone system, so if you wanted to go North of Eglington, you got to pay again.

In 1968, a loaf of bread cost $0.26.

In 2010, a loaf of bread will set you back the better part of $3.00, a ride on the TTC will set you back the better part of $3.00, and there's no zone system. And in 1968 TTC service SUCKED. So if anything, cost-wise, we're a little ahead.

The problem is that on a relative basis the cost of operating a car hasn't gone up enough, and that's before we take into account the fact that it's a small planet. What transit riders should be doing instead of whining, is lobbying to make driving and parking much more expensive, and lobbying for more transit infrastructure.

MAKE THE CARS PAY.

elect me your mayor and i will actively peruse federal funding fro the TTC. This is a world class city and it should have a world class transit system.

I can't believe the amount of whining over what amounts to a $0.25 far hike (and the fact that people are lining up like crazy right now to get tokens before the rise).

Yes it sucks that fares are going up... but the TTC is one of the most fare reliant transit systems in the world - it is seriously underfunded by the provincial and federal governments. If we think $3 is bad here, try somewhere like calgary ($2.50 for one light-rail line and terrible bus service) or saskatoon ($2.50 for shitty bus service - with no student or senior discounts)... many more example can be found across the country.

cocoa, I can't find a direct link to a recent post. But it was widely disclosed in the last strike that the TTC union demands $25/hr wages for their employees doing $12/hr work (or better yet, the work of machines).

The main issue I have with the increase is that I doubt we will see any increase or otherwise positive changes in service.

We need Autobots, stat.

that commie dipper bastard who's the Chair of the TTC just imposed another tax on the middle class. Screw him and his union lapdogs.

I don't mind paying extra but service should better improve! wait times atleast!!! although why the big discrepancy in fare hikes on regular metropass?

The TTC won't take that much change....I once tried to put dimes in and the collector told me it didn't work that way

A $0.25 hike is a 10% hike...this is quite significant for a service that isn't being improved. Will you be getting a 10% raise next year. This is just another example of a Toronto public entity viewing torotonians as a bottomless atm. I haven't seen the TTC try to cut costs, fight the union or find alternative sources of fundings. Thier solution is to take the laziest route to plug the funding gap.

All it will do is worsen thier situation as people who have alternative means to get to thier destination will take it. Ridership will continue to fall. The demographics of riders will get worst and advertising rates will fall.

The TTC is not a business, it is a public service. A giant fare increases is the same thing as a giant tax increase, except that it's directly targeting/exploiting the poorest workers in our city (people who don't have time/energy/education to stand up and fight this). It's bullying, plain and simple... the big kid taking our lunch money. Time to sock the big kid in nose so he thinks twice about trying it again. The thing is, the extra money riders pay for transit is money that they won't be spending on goods and services from Toronto businesses, so everybody loses. This is short-sighted and stupid, and kicking the poorest when we're already down.

Perhaps trimming some of the overpaid management would be an excellent start.

Good idea

Ugh! Taking it up the arse from the TTC hurts, but do we really have a choice! I feel bad for people who have minimum wage jobs or fixed incomes because they will be the one's who will be squeezed the most from this along with all the new tax increases (HST), public transit is supposed to be affordable and the whole idea of public transit is to be wholly-funded by local government. Unfortunately the taxes we pay in Ontario do not come back to Ontario. But it's no excuse for the TTC and the City of Toronto to shrug their shoulders and say the Provincial government has refused to fund the TTC fully. They have made very little effort at looking at other options to funding transit. Truly a sad state of affairs for a city of this size to have a woefully under funded transit system and it's customers who are going to pay the price. Makes me wonder how much we will be paying to ride the TTC when we have the Pan Am games here maybe around $5? Maybe more?

Adam Giambrone can kiss his mayoral chances good bye.

Maybe his councillor chances too.

This is bullshit, I'm buying a car ...

Giambrone, please do something else with your life, that is, besides ruin the TTC. Asshole.

I just don't understand fare hikes without improvements to service or expansions of the lines. Where does this money go?

I've moved to Taipei after growing up and living in Toronto, and all I can say is, "WHAT A DIFFERENCE". Public transportation in Asia is reliable, fast, insanely cheap, logically configured, and constantly improving. I've never been on a train in Taipei that stops between two stations in the middle of a dark tunnel for 15 minutes (READ: Eglington Station). WHY!?

I want to know if driving a car for your routine commute (to school, to work, to whatever) has turned out to be cheaper/faster/more convenient than the TTC. I would not be surprised if it is more cost-effective AND time-effective to sit in morning rush hour grid-lock than to take the "rocket".

Maybe you should spend a couple more years in school; the current discounted metropasses are CHEAPER than the $99 metropasses starting in september and they are full adult transferrable passes, not student passes like the September ones will be.

And we wonder why so many graduates are unemployed; common sense and logic seems to be foreign to most.

WAH WAH WAH!!!!!!!!!!

Its pretty sad when students will being paying adult fare $2 and back in the late 90's that's how much adult fares were. Now $3 for what exactly TTC. Is supposae to be the better way and it isn't .For example buses are slower in winter and don't run on time. Why am I pay .75 cents for a chilld to take the TTC what if I don't have a car and the TTC is my only means of transportation? Let's do the math 121 for a metro pass $20 a week for childrens tickets cuz you have 2 kids that take the bus to school. So $121 +$80 =$201 a month this is my grocery bill every to weeks so do I buy a metro pass/tickets or grocery wow cost of living keeps going up but $9.75 isn't really cutting it while living in Toronto. The poor keep getting poorer middle class does not exist no more and the rich are getting richer on other peoples hard work and money. The funny thing is the people who approved the fare hike don't take the TTC and have a cost of living expense that we pay for what life I should became a councillor to live off the hard working citizens of torornto!

I wouldn't have an issue with a fare hike except that in the time I've lived in Toronto I've now seen TTC fairs more than double and a reduction in the quality of service. Why should I pay more when I'm not getting anything in return?

I guess I will still continue to give my TTC collector the 3.00 fee consisting of pennies & nickels. Let em count some change other than sitting in a booth like a pylon!

I talked to Harper this morning. He suggested we all buy better footwear and winter clothes. He then laughed and hung up the phone on me. This isn't the first time he's done it either. What a prick.

which is one of the reasons the fares went up, because a lot of you: don't pay, jump the turnstile, crawl under it, open the gate, so,on, and so on, and so on. When did not paying for your ride: become an option?
Try this at the bank, when they say: 'no, I don't want to cash your check.Or your favorite Tim Horton's, where 'everyone' stands in line, not just pushes and shoves. Entitled bunch you are.

Dear city, please stop paying people to work the fare booths. Please use this extra money for automated card systems. Thanks in advance.

ANARCHY!

With the recent adjustments, all costs seem to be going up about 11%, with the exception of cash fares. So I guess we can no longer complain that they are picking on metropass holders. Hell, compared to tokens and (already useless) weekly passes, the metropass isn't increasing as much.

Cash: 2.75 -> 3.00 = 9.1%
Token: 2.25 -> 2.50 = 11.1%
Weekly: 32.25 -> 36.00 = 11.63%
Metropass: 109.00 -> 121.00 = 11%
MDP: 100.00 -> 110.00 = 11%

Student/Senior Cash: 1.85 -> 2.00 = 8.1%
Student/Senior Ticket: 1.50 -> 1.65 = 11%

I understand that they have to make up for the shortfall, but what I'm not getting is that, with the expected loss of riders because of the fare increase (11 million trips). and allowing university students (who I would imagine are a substantial segment of TTC riders) to be in the same fare class as high school students and seniors, how much money is this increase really going to generate?

Several comments here are to the effect that this is Giambrone's fault, that he's personally ruining the TTC, that he can kiss his mayoral chances (whatever they may have been) goodbye.

Get a grip, people. Do you expect fares to remain forever constant in nominal dollars (that is, to decline in real terms as inflation erodes the value of the dollar over time)? This is a $0.25 fare increase. Twenty-five cents. Not raising fares would be incredibly financially irresponsible, and cutting TTC service -- the only other plausible course of action, notwithstanding ignorant/unrealistic labour relations trolls' incessant calls for salary slashing, contracting out and miscellaneous other mass layoffs -- would be disastrous for riders.

The TTC pays its bills from federal & provincial subsidies and from the farebox. Only the farebox is under the TTC's own control. Those of you above calling this an unfair tax should check your rhetoric and ask how many times you've lauded "user pay" in public service delivery in the past two decades. You love it when the neighbours pay for most of their own swimming lessons (etc.), and the folks in Suburbaruralwhereverton, On., love it when we pay for most of our own TTC ride. Your elected officials know you love it, and they give you more and more and more.

The alternative to a fare increase is higher subsidies. These are necessary, IMHO. But don't forget for a second that *that* really would mean a new tax (or axing some other subsidy), and would mean that it's time for all of us to start looking to one another to gladly -- ok, maybe we can aim for grudgingly -- and equitably spread the cost of public services across the population through the tax system rather than through user fees?

If you want a cheap-as-free commute, you want new taxes and should vote accordingly at election time. Otherwise, plunk down your freaking QUARTER (seriously!) and deal with it. Histrionics over an inevitable fare increase, which is what this is, only highlight how cheap and petty most of us can be. As usual, the TTC is bringing out the worst in us... and, as usual, the fault lies with us.

Sorry to vent, but I think this also needs to be said:

Why does everyone think that automated fare collection, which I concede is attractive, is primarily desirable because it would allow elimination of the lone TTC employee available to assist riders in most subway stations?

Are most fare collectors providing sub-optimal customer service? Yes. Is the appropriate course of action to provide zero customter service? Of course not.

Casting automated fare collection as a way to eliminate labour costs is both misleading (especially when combined with the false implication that most collectors earn six-figure salaries) and wrongheaded. A bigger, busier, more-automated TTC will require ADDITIONAL and IMPROVED human customer service in stations, not less. Taking the view that people are the problem and that machines are the solution may well lead to a more "efficient" TTC, but efficiency can take many forms -- many of them highly undesirable from a user perspective.

Not everyone jump turnstiles to accont for a price increase of $12.
How does one promote a product and when it is to succesful complain.No improvement in service,trains going out of service,stopping between stations etc.Every what... 2yrs there is price increases.When it reaches $150 would we then riot.Fellow Commuters we got to do something as a collective.Boycott refuse to take the TTC the day the hike goes into effect and lets see if reduction in staff at out respective places of employment for 2 days will have any impact.I bet it will!Why because of economics.The economy will be hurt employers will be loosing money and that they can't have.We can whine all we want and send as much letters to our representatives as nice decent civilized citizens all to no avail.But let there be a general staff reduction for all companies across the GTA by refusing to pay the fare to go to work.And there will be action.Capitalism my freinds.If we loose and we force THEM to loose,THEY will do something.Your choice for a general boycott on the date of the fare increase....

Automated service may be seen as a problem because you can fit three people in those heavy rotating doors on one fare.

If no none of you complainers are willing to boycott the TTC by not going to work the day of the fare goes into effect, then stop complaining.

"I pay in pennies and nickels often...they can't do anything about it."

Who would they want to? The collectors don't count money. Giant machines do that. Though the union is quite happy you are paying that way as it means they have to employ more people to haul the fares around the city. They hired a dozen staff just to handle the additional weight of tokens when tickets were eliminated.

I do not "fail to realize" that fares have risen over time. Actually, I explicitly acknowledged that they do and must rise. Torontoist has a pretty good overview of how this has played out here:

http://torontoist.com/2009/11/ttc_fares_over_time.php

What you seem to have missed in my (overly long) post is my point, which was that the subsidies are the problem, not fare increases (or rather, not *this* fare increase).

Anyway, I'll stop flooding this thread. G Smith out.

My response was no more vague than your critique. Merely using the word "empirically" doesn't actually prove your comments. They were little more than your opinion that you think the average rider can afford and extra $144 annually.

The TTC obviously can't afford more capacity. The haphazard expansion last year is a good example of this. They embarked on increasing services to a level they were aware was unsustainable. Now they need to do something to address a problem they helped create.

Before the TTC increases services they need make sure the system is stable (and begging other levels of government for cash is a poor answer). They also need to make sure the current service they provide is reliable, which it is not.

You do make one good point however. I am also skeptical that automated toll collections would be cost effective, particularly in the short run.

Nice Rhetoric. Won't help one bit. Torontonians must boycott the TTC. They are to nice,no. Just talkers.Take the fare increase up y'all arses.

Government subsidies are not the solution. The TTC needs to be run as a corporation, for profit that is. It needs to be managed efficiently, and not a by a bunch of dinosaurs with no vision. Privatization is a solution.

Do we have short memories, or do we REMEMBER the last TTC strike, announced suddenly at midnight. Disband the unions, arrest their leadership, and finally modernize this system!

Peter -- I took your argument to be that because some of the people who buy 12 Metropasses per year are poor, therefore an annualized price increase of $144 for all Metropass purchasers is offensive. My response was to cast doubt on the notion that many poor people are actually part of that class of rider. Your reply was to say that it's obvious that poor people ride the TTC. That's what I meant about your dodge by increasing generality.

Neither of us can deal in hard numbers, although perhaps others have some sense of how the poor actually consume transportation.

Anyway, what do you think about the notion that subsidized (or, ideally, free) passes should be made available to the poor? Would it really be best to have the TTC administer such a system, given your doubts about its capacity to do anything well?

At any rate, invoking the fact that some TTC riders are poor to oppose a fare increase still strikes me as missing the point. If fares need to rise -- and I am obviously arguing that they do, but we can disagree -- it is still possible to address these concerns without making it impossible for the TTC to protect its revenue from inflationary erosion.

What on earth is your point? I only see one link to Torontoist above, and it was used to illustrate a related point?

Thank you Cocoa for making it easy for us to find out MP's and MPP's to email them!

I just emailed my local MP and MPP. It took me less than 5 minutes. There are 97 comments on here right now. I hope that each one of you who is taking the time to vent here also takes the time to vent to your local representatives to let them know how this hike is affecting you and how you feel. Do not be afraid to send them an email. There is power in numbers. Please, every one of you use your voice. Let's work and channel this energy toward something positive.

Copied and Pasted from Cocoa's comment:

Find your MP: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC

Find your MPP:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_current.do?locale=en

Email them about your new-found interest in public transit funding.

Giambrone for mayor!!!

where are the blogto reporters when they are shutting down the subway? shouldn't this be a major posting?

just be thankful it's not snowing and -30c

Okay, get this:

1)Automation is not possible now, if it was, every system would be automated, please stop regurgitating bullshit that you've heard from people that don't know better

2)Automated fare systems aren't possible in the TTC due to the lack of wiring; a lot of wiring would have to be done first before any of these systems could be implemented, and at the rate technology changes, any of these fare systems could become obsolete anyway.Talk to Giambrone about this, and he'll say the same thing.

3)Want there to be lower fares? Vote McGuinty out, and somebody else in who gives a shit about transit.

In the unlikely event that you really are Mr. Tory: you seem like a nice guy, but you are an absolutely shitty politician. Your political career has been dead for so long the bones are starting to decompose, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't realize this. Give it up, or risk becoming an outright laughingstock.

If hell froze over and you became mayor, your appeal to the Feds would be greeted with the same inaction as the past 10 mayors who promised and attempted the same thing. Grow up. This is bullshit, even if you don't realize it.

Please, please, use your considerable talents someplace else. You can make a difference, but this ongoing desire to get elected as anything other than a member of your condo board of directors is wasting your time and your energy. Worst of all it is depreciating what credibility you have left.

As of tomorrow no more buying tokens. Once again the TTC proves how fucking horrible and anger-inducing they are.

@bradTTC: TTC will introduce a temporary adult ticket tomorrow and suspend all token sales until the new year

Get the Tamils to help organize. They love protesting the crap out of things, no matter what the cause!
Human congo lines down University always work.

Disagree. The poster has a point.
Tamils are great at organizing events.
Doesnt matter if its they're own cause or not, they know how to rally the troops. Drum up interest.
And im willing to bet atleast one Tamil uses the TTC.

Did you all know that the Bus drivers get paid more then a nurse. I get $6 less an hour then them and I had to go to college for two years,write an exam plus up grade my skills yearly, I give medications, assess acute care patients hourly, never sit down, tons of paper and computer input, administer IVs/catheters/CPR etc and take verbal/physical/emotional abuse from patients and management plus much more. I also can't afford a car and a mortgage at the same time but they can.
THESE JACKASSES, ARE PETTY COMPLAINERS.All they need is a driverslicense and HS diploma. They should be happy I am not there nurse: Enema? You look like your alittle unhappy.

Please distribute this widely.


You may have heard that OCAP is having a TTC action (see below). We are looking for help with flyering.

Flyering Times:

1) Outside/Inside Broadview Subway Station:

Tuesday, December 8th: 4:30pm

2) Outside/Inside Dundas West Subway Station:
Wednesday, December 9th: 4:30pm

Also, if you would like to sign up to to do outreach, or organize a separate leafleting time, please email us at the OCAP office at: ocap@tao.ca

Lastly - if you have access to a photocopier let us know.

-------------------------------------

Angry about the TTC Fare Hike?

It's time to make transit affordable!

Public Action Against the Transit Fare Hikes
Saturday, December 12th
1pm
Toronto City Hall (Queen and Bay)

The Toronto Transit Commission is facing a $100-million deficit in its operating budget for next year. On November 17th the Commission
ignored community outrage, and instead voted for a TTC fare hike of 25cents/fare and an increase of over 10% per monthly pass. In the new
year, they expect us to pay $6 for ONE round trip on transit! Riders already cover more than 80% of TTC operating costs and it is by far
the least-funded mass transit system in North America. This increase is outrageous and unacceptable - and we should refuse to pay!

Lately, we've been hearing a lot about shortfalls and deficits. We cannot forget where these deficits come from. When the economic
crisis hit, the federal and provincial government quickly found BILLIONS of dollars of public money to bailout banks and corporations.
Now these same governments want us to believe that they can't find any money to support public transit? As usual, big business gets bailed
out, and the people get sold out. Worst of all the bourgeoise socialists affiliated with the NDP on Toronto City Council behind such trying to end the

special diet and trying to prevent those eligible for Ontario Works from receiving it.

For poor and working people in this city, especially for families, transit costs are already too high and often unaffordable. This fare hike will

hurt the people who are already struggling to make ends meet. The TTC deficit should not be loaded onto the backs of people who need transit.

It should not be paid for by riders and it should not be paid for by the workers who run the buses, subways and streetcars.

Paying more for transit is only one attack on already inadequate public services. Lay-offs and deeper cuts to all essential services like Welfare,

Disability, and the Ontario Drug Benefit are coming next if we don't fight back. Our communities demand affordable transit, real income levels,

affordable housing, childcare, and education.

Transit is a necessity and it is a basic right. Not only are we fighting this fare hike, but we are demanding that transit be federally funded and

affordable for everyone. If we mobilize, and together refuse to accept this fare hike, we can take back transit.

Come out December 12th

Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP)
ocap@tao.ca / 416-925-6939
www.ocap.ca