City
TTC May Raise Fares in Early 2010
Facing another operating deficit, the TTC has predicted a $100 million shortfall for 2010. Nine city councillors are set to discuss the matter in a meeting now scheduled for Nov. 17. The remaining six-week period would give the commission just enough time to implement a fare hike for the New Year.
For every $0.25 increase in fare, the TTC raises roughly $45 million. TTC Chairman, Councillor Adam Giambrone, says that the current fare of $2.75 won't be increased to four or five dollars because that would "not [be] good for riders". But, I won't be surprised if I find myself throwing a Toonie, Loonie, and maybe even a quarter in the fare box in the near future.
With the TTC's recent problems with finances, it's no wonder rumors of a fare increase are circulating. Hoping to avoid the ridership losses experienced in the 1990s -- when the TTC raised prices and reduced service -- Giambrone has repeatedly stated that he's not prepared to cut service.
I think if Mayor Miller didn't announce a 'price freeze' effective until the end of the year, Toronto would have seen talks of a fare hike much sooner. In retrospect, his announcement actually prepared me for a hike sometime in early 2010 -- saying that user costs won't increase this year, almost definitely means they will the following year.
Interestingly enough, CP24 is premiering a new TV show on Thursday at 8PM entitled On The Rocket. The show will be broadcast live from a moving streetcar where passengers will ask Adam Giambrone questions and chat about transit related issues. Let's just hope for his sake (and ours!) that a fare announcement isn't made tomorrow night.
UPDATE: (4pm)
The TTC has just announced the following proposed fare hikes, to be considered at the November 17th meeting. If these hikes are approved, they will go into effect on Jan 3rd, 2010.
Regular adult cash fare would jump just 9.09%, but the regular adult Metropass will see a significantly greater hike (of 15.6%). Maybe this will help them with their problem of the transferable Metropass being too attractive an option for its own good.
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No kidding, Adam. Nobody was even considering having a fare hike that high. That statement smacks of nothing more than a deflection tactic to make the inevitable $3 - $3.25 seem like less of a blow. You're paper thin, Giambrone.
He's been keeping tabs on how his boss does finesse. Remember "property tax increases in line with inflation"?
That said, TTC costs aren't going down - fuel is expensive and operators are getting pay increases. The reality is that that has to be paid for, and the province doesn't have money to give a bailout for the operating budget this time because Duncan's numbers are billions in the hole, not merely millions.
We need someone unlike Giambrone (who admittedly has been great for PR) to take the reins and stop being a nice-guy freeloader and actually whip the system into shape, if we expect it to be a reliable and essential part of our city any longer. Having it fall into a state of frequency and coverage such as Mississauga Transit's system would be devistating for our city and its roads.
Well I'm at it.. The service through the core at rush hour is out paced by people walking! How about some dedicated street car lanes through the core (queen street). It works like a dream in the queens quay. The streetcars don't deal with traffic delays, and people again will be more inclined to take a streetcar over their car if its faster and cheeper. Not to mention drives don't have to dread getting stuck behind a streetcar on queen.
Thats my rant.
When will commenters grasp that NO ONE wants to advertise on the TTC. They can't even sell out the space they have. That's why there's so much underused space and ads for festivals everywhere that were over months ago.
Advertising revenue for this year was $13 million. Even if the amount of advertising magically increased TEN TIMES, it would still only equate to about a 10% of the TTC's operating budget or a drop in fares of a few cents. Advertising is not the answer.
If the TTC needs to increase fares, they better implement a 2 hour transfer and allow stopovers.
When I'm on the bus, I never see more than half of the ad space used anymore.
Even if properly promoting advertising opportunities and charging appropriately brings in a mere $100,000 that is $100,000 they didn't have before.
$126 a month for a Metropass? really?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/721193--ttc-ponders-double-digit-fare-increase?bn=1
Who the hell is he kidding? I know he takes the TTC to work, but don't lie to us about paying for your rides. Seriously!
Brad Ross: $126 = $3024 for me & my wife for a year. Our car is cheaper than that. Sad but true.
MDH perhaps you should read for comprehension. The author of the article said that, not Giambrone.
I think ill just walk.
I would have no trouble with a fare hike if they were even considering a system overhaul to make things more effective, instead of patch jobs every few months, every few years. A little while back, there were reports of the TTC hiring something like 100+ new employees, most of which were management. If there's one thing I know from years in customer service and management, it's that even the biggest, most complicated business can be run well with half the number of managers that the business is probably using.
TTC, hire a business consultant (or team of consultants) to check where your money leaks are, to keep an eye on hiring, and then maybe I'll consider paying $126 a month on my pass. Transit in this city is a bloated dinosaur, and, although I'd like to think otherwise, will probably never update, streamline and become even partially automated (like the most successful transit systems in the world.)
The politicians need to be removed from control of the TTC and there needs to be a clause in all employment contracts requiring TTC staff to not live in the City of Toronto and to remain politically impartial like civil servants of yore.
we need to bring the concept of the collectivo to toronto. guy buys a mini van for $1000, charges $1 to take you up dufferin or down spadina or where ever.. i've seen 15 people squeeze into a 7 seater mini-van and i've certainly felt as squished on a bloor-danforth subway. he'll even drop you off between stops in the winter and smile at you. that's value.
I'd say all of the preceding is just my opinion, but I feel like I'm quoting verbatim this morning's private TTC Board meeting before they broke huddle and lowered their latest financial boom.
Currently, it is assumed a Metropass user will take at least 48.4 trips on the TTC in one month at a cost of $2.25 per trip (current cost of a token). That gets you to $109.
What staff is recommending is increasing that trip rate by two, to 50.4 at $2.50 per trip, getting you to $126.
If you use the federal tax credit available, the effective trip rate is actually 42.4, at least from an economic stand point.
Anything over 42 trips, therefore, is effectively a free trip assuming you would otherwise purchase tokens. Add to that the transferability of the pass and the option to join the Metropass Discount Plan (MDP), makes the Metropass a pretty good deal.
Brad Ross
Honestly, if you can't make up $20 extra a month, perhaps you should stop buying cigarettes or finish high school. Seriously, you're uptight about $20? Driving a car is suddenly cheaper? That's hilarious.
Is my perception of this correct? Are there any practical steps* that can be done to fix this? Should Torontonians accept a lower level of service in exchange for more stable fares?
*practical steps do not include anything reality check or jack suggest.
Meanwhile, I haven't been on a streetcar home in days and days that hasn't been short turned with a wait for the next one. Where are those College line buses again?
While the TTC would certainly still be cheaper, the problem is that the service in many people's eyes is most definitely not worth the extra 15%.
It really is an asshole move on the TTC's part. They understand that metropass holders only ride the TTC due to necessity. They commute and have to get to work and have no choice but to bite the bullet and pay the extra 15%
How about cancelling the tranferrable option and making the metropass cheaper - say half a month - 30 trips?
Or cancelling metropass entirely and relying on tokens? And cancelling all other payment options.
I agree with cutting costs from within the TTC first too. All businesses are letting people go and cutting costs in this economy; how is the TTC doing this, if at all? And if not, why not?
I also can't see how a two hour transfer will help, being as short turning streetcars and split routes make for an extended wait to get home most nights anyway.
Or at least the elimination of the COLA that is in addition to any wage increase.
Such is the real problem with union run orgs. And their social scientists still led by Miller.
Tax cars to pay for the better way.
I also like the idea of letting the TTC build offices or condos above stations and keep the money. Can someone explain to me why that can't happen?
Perhaps they should just revoke the transferability of the Metropass. I'm not sure why they introduced that in the first place, as it is one of the major reasons revenue is down!
A congestion charge is overdue for Toronto as well. It has worked well in London and other cities. Stop pandering to people who drive - especially the 905ers who don't even pay city taxes. "War on the car"? Bring it on!
York Region $3.25 Cash Fare, $105.00 Monthly (1 Zone)
Durham Region $2.90, $97.00 Monthly
Vancouver $2.50 Cash, $73 Monthly (1 Zone)
Montreal $ 2.75 Cash,
Calgary $2.50 Cash, $83.00 Monthly
Chicago $2.25 Cash, $86 Monthly
New York $2.25 Cash, $89 Monthly
Los Angeles $1.25 Cash, $62 Monthly
Detroit $2 Cash, $66 Monthly
Houston $1.25 Cash ($1.35 in 2010) No Monthly
Phoenix $1.75 Cash, $2.75 Express, $55.00 Month, $88 Express
Philadelphia $2.00 Cash, $78.00
and to mr. forde, the guy who made the comment about going to school or not smoking, i do not smoke and have two university degrees. $17 a month extra is still a lot for me.
...but i don't think i would mind it if the system actually worked.
also for the blue night service, make it every 15 minutes in winter months when the temperature goes below 0..
extending the subway hours until 3am is a great way to get people to "arrive alive"
upgrades to systems cost money so im ok with a fare hike. But i agree with new management, a new direction for customer service, and smarter dollar spend rather than throwing money into a burning fire.
And we're all fully aware that by making the metropass transferrable was your perfect excuse to raise fares later on...now really.
You've lost one metropass buyer here.
The 905 councils need to pay up, too.
also maybe the ttc should be doing surveys to see what the riders want and actually have a better site that looks like they actually put some work into it because their current site really sucks. like I have to use google maps for everything because the actual site makes you download stuff that I don't want to. also it should be made better for tourism and tourist. it should be more clear where all the attractions are and how to get there by TTC or public transport.
and maybe the ppl who run the TTC should be looking at what they're doing in other cities. and about the advertisement. how could you not want to advertise on the TTC? maybe they should be making it more effective where there's listings, and also maybe the TTC isn't actively trying to promote advertising on the TTC maybe it should be on the front page of the TTC website so that right when you go there you'd be like "oh ok I think I'll advertise there" even 40$ per advertising is better than nothing because it's they get like 100 40$ advertisements all over Toronto then that's 4000$ they should be helping smaller corporations to get big. and maybe they could make it look better? and the graphic design on their official site is pretty terrible. I really hate going there because it's so hard to do anything on that site. but anyways TTC needs to get better and stop raising fares because they need to think a little bit more about the people using the TTC. we matter too.
Anything over $100 for an MDP will probably make me use a car vs. taking the TTC.
20 work-days per month @ $6 per day does not offset the increased MDP cost ($116 x 12) when one considers the months with holidays or vacation or days off. I would likely buy tokens and drive more often (vs. considering making full use of the MDP when it is only $100).
Currently the MDP is a good value. Any increase in price will make it not worth the subscription commitment and reduce the months that I actually buy a pass. I will buy tokens and have less frequent travel on the TTC (vs. buying a pass and using it exclusively for commuting).
Increasing the price will only further encourage me to find other ways of commuting. I discourage any increase the price of the MDP.
1) Make every station/subway entrance gate automated and accept BOTH MetroPass cards and tokens.
2) Automate the toll sales at subway stations via machines and pass/token dispensers (no need for collector booths).
3) Eliminate the "fare watchers" who sit idle and barely count or "collect" fares as people drop (or don't) tokens into boxes).
How can the TTC reasonably ask riders to pay more when people are paid high salaries to make change and watch coins be put into a box?
1. Make it easier for people to ride - pay by visa and debt, flexible fare structure (see London's oyster card system.. or any other major city on the planet)
2. Sell more ad space (jameson - this is far from impossible)
3. Cut labour costs and increase efficiency by replacing some low-skilled workers with machines (can anyone seriously argue with this?) - ultimately will boost ridership and increase TTC employment over time
4. Bring in private sector mgmt and consultants (maybe restructure the commission as a public private partnership)
Until then I'll walk whenever possible.
Does that make you and your overpaid union buddies feel good?
Does Sheppard need an information only booth?
In my line of work, people who don't pull there own weight are out of a job pretty quickly, and after being hit hard by the recession, we've had to reduce jobs AND accept reduced pay just to keep the company going. Charging our clients more was never an option.
The TTC needs to trim the fat, not raise fares.
And @Pete Forde: who the hell are you? judging by your comment you obviously don't take the TTC anyways. Look through your BMW windows and realize we are not all as fortunate as you are to be a souless yes man with a huge bankroll.
Just being out of school myself (university) where i had to pay my own way using osap=massive debt; it's difficult to afford the metropass already. Raising the fare when it's already way too high makes no sense. It should've stayed 100$ flat for the metropass, 2.25$ for adult fare frankly service has not improved. You want to save money? automate the toll booths! Stop buying sports cars for the supervisors! make them use the TTC to get where they need to, i don't think they need to race around to verify scheduals.
As someone stated earlier Giambrone = Used Car Salesman! couldn't stop myself chuckling after reading that.
After reading some of the previous comments I see some people wondering why we are freaking out over $20 more per month. Well here's why: with $126 I can cover 2 or 3 other monthly bills. I can also make a payment to my credit card or student loan. Sure it may not seem much but $1500/yr is a lot of money for a lot of people, especially when we don't see that we get enough value for the money.
So I am going to buy a bike with the amount of money I will be spending on 1 bus pass, or a really fancy one with 2 bus passes.
Oh, and one more thing, Brad Ross: Please have the TTC stop referring to us as customers. It's patronizing. "Customers" implies that we have choice, and that the provider will suffer if it provides bad service. We all know that ain't so. We aren't your "customers" any more than we're "customers" of Canada Revenue Agency.
And what's the REAL problem with the fare increase? It won't result in improvements to sub-par service, so there's simply no value for money.
The TTC as an organization has been abused by gov't AND unions for years, and acts like a trauma victim, by turns passive and aggressive.
Aside from looking at how other transit agencies in the developed world DO things, how about looking at how other transit agencies have turned their own crises and dysfunctions around?
You could go one step further and have a "swipe when you enter" and "swipe when you exit" system, and set up fare zones of $1.00, $2.00, $3.00 measured for distance. A trip from Ossington to College should not cost as much as one from Finch to King.
Wages aren't increasing, but the "TTC tax" is going up.
As to revenues lost due to a transferable metropass, why not scrap it? I lent my pass once and borrowed someone else's twice in all this time. And I can't borrow my daughter's student pass. I don't get much benefit from this. Reduce the price accordingly.
How is that hilarious? You are assuming that people's time is worth nothing. For me commuting by TTC will never be cheaper than driving my car.
20 km commute each way (40 km total per day)
30 minutes by car vs 1.5 hours by TTC each way (1hr per day vs 3)
This translates to 2 extra hours of my time I could spend working.
Assuming I'm one of those high school drop-outs that you seem to have so much disdain for (I am not, but let's assume so for the sake of argument) - that translates to $17 in lost wages (assuming an hourly rate of $8.50)
Total cost of taking TTC = $17 of my time + $5 fare = $22
Driving my car, let's assume costs me $0.40/km for gas and maintenance. Add to that another $4/day for insurance.
Total cost of taking car = $20
In actuality, I earn considerably more than $8.50/hour, so this makes driving my car even more compelling. Add in carpooling to reduce gas costs - why would I ever consider taking the slow, crowded, unreliable TTC?