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Liz Worth Excavates Toronto's Punk Past

Posted by Rick McGinnis / January 27, 2010

Liz WorthIt was obvious at the launch party for Liz Worth's Treat Me Like Dirt: An Oral History Of Punk In Toronto And Beyond that the author had a success on her hands, as copies of the book sold out before the night's entertainment had even begun. What was just as obvious was the age of the crowd, most of whom were probably in the crowd at the Viletones, Diodes, Secrets, Curse and Demics shows that were the main event for the scene Worth wrote about.

Even more in evidence was their eagerness to heckle anyone onstage; Damian Abraham from Fucked Up, who interviewed Worth about the book, was an irresistible target, and it was clear that anyone who didn't make it onto the pages of Worth's book - and may who did - were as unwilling to be silent now as they were back then.

"That didn't surprise me at all, because punk history is all about that," Worth recalled a few days later. "I always thought of punk as a great equalizer, where everyone's involved somehow. At these shows, there was just as much show going on in the audience as on the stage, right?"

For her part, Worth had to imagine what the scene in Toronto - and Hamilton and London - was like over thirty years ago, as she was only 24 when she started interviewing people for Treat Me Like Dirt four years ago, after discovering her hometown's brief but vivid punk scene in her teens, after reading the late Daniel Jones' relentlessly grubby novel 1978 - the inspiration for her own book. Imagining Queen Street West in the mid-70s took a bit of work, but Worth insists that connecting with Toronto's past is something we do all the time, since constant, often remorseless change is part of the city's nature, for good or ill.

Horseshoe Tavern"It's weird - I grew up in south Etobicoke and the thing about Toronto is it's always changing. When I used to come down to Queen Street when I was a teenager in the 90s, it's completely different now from what it was like then. Toronto doesn't hold on to its past - we're used to seeing beautiful old, worked-in buildings torn down and then they put up a glass condo. That happens all the time, so I don't think it's all that hard for a Torontonian to imagine Toronto in another decade, because we're always reimagining Toronto, always trying to think 'What used to be here before?' We always have to keep the past in our heads all the time because the city is changing all the time."

The site of the Crash 'N' Burn clubWhat made it especially difficult was the briefness of the scene itself, as clubs like the Diodes' Crash 'N' Burn, David's and the Horseshoe only did business for a few months, and so many of the shifting lineups of bands went unrecorded. The Horseshoe is still doing business, but the Beverley Tavern is now a franchised Asian restaurant and the Crash'N' Burn is an office, while the David's and the Colonial have disappeared entirely from the streetscape. "At first it was challenging to piece all of these things together because the thing about the Toronto scene is that it was a moving scene, in that every venue they had was taken away from them somehow."

"They all lasted a very short period of time - from the Colonial Underground to the Crash 'N Burn and then to David's, and then David's burned down. That never happens - how often does a venue burn down? It was very dramatic the way things came to an end, like with the riot at the Colonial. It has to be real because you couldn't make this up - if this was a novel people would think it was over the top and they'd never publish it."

The site of the Beverley TavernThere's also the fact that a band like Fucked Up, who are open about their love of the bands Worth writes about, have been able to record and perform far more easily than any of them, and someone Worth's age has probably never had to try as hard to see bands or find records as it was back then. "It's hard because I feel that we're so saturated with - I don't want to be mean - but with a lot of music that doesn't matter. I think it's because it's so easy to put out a record, and we have the internet, which makes it so easy to buy anything you want now. Technology has changed a lot, and it's a lot easier to get your stuff out now, but that doesn't make the music better, right?"

"I feel like we live in a strange time where everything is everywhere, and I don't know if anything matters. I don't think there are many bands now that we'll talk about thirty years later, the way there were thirty years ago."

Discussion

21 Comments

keven / January 27, 2010 at 10:41 am
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Definitely want to read this. Originally I'm from Winnipeg, so most of the homegrown punk I listed to growing up was from out west, (DOA, Red Fisher, SNFU etc).

<blockquote>I think it's because it's so easy to put out a record, and we have the internet, which makes it so easy to buy anything you want now. Technology has changed a lot, and it's a lot easier to get your stuff out now, but that doesn't make the music better, right?"</blockquote>

I'm not sure if this is because she has grown up or what, but I'm very confused by this statement. Punk was all about a DIY attitude towards music. The simple fact that a crappy band like Fucked Up can become so big, really shows the influence punk had on society as a whole. Technology gave us access to DIY marketing and distribution, the same way that cheap guitars gave wanna be artists access to playing music, in turn creating punk music.

I definitely do not agree with her sentiment that we won`t be talking about as many bands in 30 years. 30 years ago was a pretty crappy time for music, even in the local and international punk scene.
apow / January 27, 2010 at 10:55 am
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TORONTO

PLEASE STOP TAKING YOUR PRESS PHOTOS IN THE GRAFFITI ALLEY

NOT INTERESTING
Ratpick / January 27, 2010 at 11:37 am
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apow, it's the "Scotiabank Graffiti Alley", don't you know?

Ah, mourning the loss of Toronto's punk past...

Back then (1980s) downtown living was hard-edged and young. Now it has become what everyone aspires to, buys condos for.

I suspect that real punk has moved on. It ain't on Queen any longer, taking its dog to the daycare and noodling on a MacBook in the coffee shop.
Dave / January 27, 2010 at 11:39 am
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This books good too - SMASH THE STATE - its out of print but you can still find it around

http://www.forgottenrebels.com/album-smashthestate.php
Laura / January 27, 2010 at 12:07 pm
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The question is, how to get a copy of the book other than ordering from Amazon, which claims the book is not in stock?
hiliz / January 27, 2010 at 12:24 pm
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i need info on how to get the book too, prefer to buy from local business then a corporation. in support of local business and the author. Liz is so pretty, will u marry me?
rick mcginnis / January 27, 2010 at 12:35 pm
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The first printing is apparently sold out, which explains the status at amazon, but even the publisher's website:

http://www.bongobeat.com/bongobeatbooks.php

...will direct you to amazon. Check in at Soundscape or This Ain't The Rosedale Library regularly, but I have no idea when they'll have copies again.
rick mcginnis / January 27, 2010 at 01:00 pm
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Keven - I don't want to put words into Liz Worth's mouth, but I think she was saying that, basically, you should be afraid of what you wish for. Sure, we've reached a point where technology has made it possible to get music out and connect with audiences more easily than it was in 1977, but that ease - and ubiquity - has taken away a lot of the charm and aura that accrued around these "obscure" scenes, where you really had to work hard to find a record, or get to a gig.

I'm speaking from memory - finding punk records meant trips downtown, and tiny print runs meant that you'd be taping copies from friends and acquaintances, or buying bootlegs, if that. I have gigabytes of old punk singles now, but it would have taken me years, and thousands of dollars, to build up this collection, not to mention the sheer physical impossibility of being in a couple of dozen places at the same time to find them. You can be comprehensive in a way that wasn't possible then, but the special quality that actually tracking down something - and spending actual money on it - isn't there.

Also, there's just so much music today, much of it seeming to recycle and recombine things we've heard before. Despite it all, real innovation is as scarce as it ever was. Or maybe I'm just sounding like an old man - it's possible.
James / January 27, 2010 at 01:57 pm
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How old is Liz?
rick mcginnis / January 27, 2010 at 02:01 pm
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"...she was only 24 when she started interviewing people for Treat Me Like Dirt four years ago..."
keven / January 27, 2010 at 02:07 pm
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You do raise a valid point, I'm not sure I agree with it though. It's brought us here, sure the beginnings were tough, I can remember only a few years ago being able to get records that I HAD TO HAVE back when I was younger but could not get these records unless I made a trip to the UK or Toronto (hell even clothes like Ben Sherman or Fred Perry). But to me it's simply a "Things were better when we rode horses to school" mentality.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see it as a celebration of how far we've come and how much deep influence (our) punk scene had on everything from empowerment to style to attitude. From the first time the NY Dolls spit at a reporter all the way to street kids starting anti-anarchy & anti-racist collectives.

As far as your comments on innovation, you know it's totally cyclical. Your parents complained about your music, you'll complain about new music too. I find people often get stuck listening for life to what they more or less did when they were kids. Comfort level perhaps?

Check out anything by Mike Patton for example and tell me that innovation is not happening. I can remember only a handful of great punk bands in my locale surrounded by shitty punk bands too, now it's just on a WAY larger scale.

wow, sorry. Really long reply.
keven / January 27, 2010 at 02:09 pm
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oh crap she was only 24 when she began writing it? Okay this makes much more sense to me now. Obvs talking to lots of old-timers. I thought it was her experienced opinion. Still worth checking out though, from what I was told the Toronto Punk scene was amazing at the time.
RALPH Alfonso / January 27, 2010 at 03:14 pm
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Hi folks

I will have the 2nd printing in a few days and you can order it directly from the publisher, me, for $39.99 and that includes postage. This is the link:

http://www.bongobeat.com/LizWo_TreMeLi_bk.php

Thanks

Ralph Alfonso
Bongo Beat Books
RALPH Alfonso / January 27, 2010 at 03:16 pm
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FYI

Frank Manley, who published Smash The State, bought 7 copies of Treat Me Like Dirt.


Ralph Alfonso
matt on his bike / January 27, 2010 at 09:51 pm
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Sneaky Dees at Bloor and Bathurst.
Anyone?
Angela / January 28, 2010 at 09:08 am
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This made me drop my jaw, this photo was taken in front of my brother's memorial wall. What can I say, it's a public space, but my brother was killed in 2004 and ceil was his tag but he definitely was in no way related to punk roots or punk music and it was a little misleading to see this. Nothing against the article, just want to let people know that there is more to this than a photo op.
M / January 28, 2010 at 09:40 am
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I believe you can get this book at the punk record store Hits & Misses on Bloor just east of Ossington as well.
Greg / January 28, 2010 at 12:00 pm
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Grabbed the book a couple weeks ago. Liz did a fantastic job. It's great that there is a buzz surrounding this book.

Congrats and thank you to all of those behind it.

Punk is still alive and well in Toronto. It may not be as crazy as it was, and there may be some people involved that are mere spectators, but there is some great, memorable punk music coming out of this city at present.

Hits & Misses also has the first Viletones single on the wall right now.
post punker replying to a comment from matt on his bike / January 28, 2010 at 01:08 pm
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College & Bathurst :)
post punker replying to a comment from matt on his bike / January 28, 2010 at 01:08 pm
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errr, that was a reply to matt on his bike.
matt on his bike / February 2, 2010 at 10:04 pm
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werd up post punk
Sneeky Dees useded to be at Bloor and Bathurst.
Looking for anybody that remembers those times.

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