Starbucks to Ruin Kensington Market?

About time! Ideal Coffee is a corporation disguised as an indie hippy joint! Ideal Coffee is found in more cafes downtown than there are SBUX locations south of College St!

Of course, I'm certain the landlord is behind this move...$$$:)

let them move in and see what horrible reception they get. For the same reason a second hand used clothing store wouldn't work in the PATH or Financial District.

I think we overreact sometimes to the fear of gentrification. Kensington is very resilient and has a large community backing.

The Market definitely doesn't need a Starbucks!

In Seoul the historic market district required Starbucks to change its appearance (including transliterating its store sign into Hangul) before it moved in. If it was Starbucks with a crappy hand painted sign and tagged walls, would it be accepted in Kensington?

I predict broken windows and spray paint. Call me Nostradamus.

Eh. I'd hate on Starbucks, but look at what an improvement it made to the corner of Queen and Bathurst.

Too many people seem to hate starbucks because it's the cool thing to do. To echo some above sentiments, I don't see what the big concern is. If Kensington Market has the strong community that we all think it does, then Starbucks will learn it's lesson and move on. If not, then there are obviously other things that need to be addressed.

Ry-Tron: Exactly. The solution to this non-problem is the same as Wal-Mart or McDonald's or anything else.. don't shop there.

That would be Blue Banana
http://blogto.com/design/bluebanana

I don't really care that much about S-bucks moving in. Without support, it won't last long. But, please don't try to tell me they make good espresso. Those push-button machines their "baristas" use make a brew that's got no flavour and is barely even warm - and when served in a paper cup the only aroma you get is from the paper.

Starbuck's makes notoriously bad coffee. They thrive on their ubiquity; people go because it's what they know. It's honestly the McDonald's of coffee.

As contradictory as it sounds, the throngs who come to the market on the weekend to experience something a bit different will gladly stop in to a Starbuck's because it's familiar. It won't matter how slow their sales are during the week.

No art protests will change this.

@Matt there are tons of clothing stores in the PATH

Ben, sliding doors tend to actually lose less energy than traditional doors (when the sensors aren't accidentally being tripped). Traditional doors, when opened create suction, pulling air out of the room. Even with the power required to run the door and accidental openings, I would imagine their sliding doors are much better for energy consumption than a single set of regular ones.

Meh... Again, big deal... I don't buy coffee at any of the places in Kensington Market it's usually more expensive than Starbucks and you get less.

I wonder, though, if having Starbucks in the neighbourhood will raise the general expectation of cleanliness for other places (really tired of seeing shops with bad records there).

I don't think they'll do so badly (financially) either. Like the poster above said, it will be a familiar refuge for tourists. Like a McDonald's in the third world.

Are there any special zoning bylaws for Kensington? Rek's reference to the Seoul market requiring conformity to a set of standards is interesting. But yeah, what would Kensington's be?

You raise a very interesting argument, joeyjojo, but I think that your suggestion is misplaced.

The issue isn't whether Starbuck's will clean up Kensington. Surely they would clean up at least one store's worth. The problem is that Starbuck's is too standardized. If one opens in Kensington, which is arguably one of Toronto's most unique neighbourhoods, then some of that uniqueness will be lost.

I can't imagine it. It's not their style. I could however see them opening a location at Augusta at College, or on Spadina, at Baldwin (in burned out remains of Edo where there is no rebuilding going on). That's the type of location they favor, with lots of walk-by traffic, on a corner. That location in the market wouldn't make enough money. Os, the eldest brother who runs the coffee shop at Augusta/Baldwin (which I think has the best and most consistent latt? this side of Yonge (but Mercury has the best in the city in my opinion), doesn't stay open on Sundays because the people who visit the market on Sunday's are 'all sightseers and don't buy anything'. If his little shop, with so little overhead, can't find it worthwhile to stay open on a weekend day, Starbucks isn't going to make enough to pay for the renovations, staff and equipment.

People are always criticizing what is going on in the market, but how many of you regularly go there, or live there? I live there and like how the market is getting 'cleaned up' -- not 'gentrified'. It's nice to be able to walk through the market after dark and not feel like you're going to get the shit kicked out of you for what little change you have in your pockets. When I first moved into the market, two and a half years ago, I remember seeing a lot of drugs changing hands. The windows at Edo, always provided a good show. Less tagging and garbage in garbage bins and not blowing around the street, is not going to take away from the character. As it is now, we have a park that few will even step foot in. I was disgusted at how dirty the playground was, when I took a trip with a friend and her two year old. The sand area, under the swings, might have been mistaken for the McDonald's parking lot at Dundas and Bathurst.

I wouldn't mind if a Starbucks opened 'cause maybe there'd be someplace clean to go to after 6, that would be open, those nights I want to have a coffee and read or work on my laptop. I'm a night-owl and find it frustrating that the market shuts down at 6pm and there's nothing to do unless you want to drink. And does anyone ever think about the people that Starbucks employs? There's many students in the area who could do worse than work at a Starbucks and need to pay for their over-priced tuition.

If Starbucks opens it doesn't matter if Kensington residents completely boycott it, they will live off the revenue from visitors and tourists and people coming in from China Town and nearby just to get Starbucks coffee. Then you'll get a McDonalds or something, which will survive on similar conditions.

Starbucks and McDonald's aren't in the same category as Nike Presto.

This is Canada, we are capitalists, and Starbucks has every right to open wherever they please. Do I really need to reference the South Park episode about this? Kensington will keep whichever business has better coffee afloat, I am sure.

The comment I left this morning has been deleted. Why???

Corina, this is an historic neighbourhood and goes beyond 'we are capitalists'.

The whole reason people visit this neighbourhood is that it's unique and putting a store there that can be found anywhere on the planet completely undermines it.

One Starbucks won't ruin the Market (though I definitely hope that they get run out of the 'hood on a rail should they set up shop here).

The real problem is the property owner, one Phil Pick. As a story in today's Globe and Mail made clear, he's already turned down several prospective tenants while he waits for a national chain like S-Bucks, Second Cup, or Lululemon.

And don't get me started on the Blue Banana and its phony yuppie ilk creeping south from College St. Why can't gentrification ever strike a balance with communities? It just tends to steamroll over everything and create a pastel parking lot of name-brands and franchisees with no connection to the neighbourhood beyond the fiscal.

Please forgive the rant. I just happen to love the Market as it is. I'm not averse to change, I'm averse to gentrification that makes the neighbourhood unaffordable for me, my friends, and the businesses that have been here for decades.

As mom and pop shop owners in the area, a group of us feel our business is being dramatically affected by the so-called "defenders" of the market.

It is so extremely important to have space in the mind. Otherwise, you always create what you are fighting against. The psychology and the brand image of Kensington Market that people attach to is no different than the brand image that Starbucks has. Both are desperate for power.

Be creative, do something new. Kensington Market is a neighbourhood full of raw emotion and energy, it can be a leader in creativity and sustainability. And that doesn't mean Pedestrian Sundays.

SBux does not keep stores open that are running @ a loss. A store front is not simply a marketing tool - labour costs would be through the roof ... they are like every other retail store - if they don't meet their targets, labour gets cut then the store is closed shortly after if there is no change. I love how people think of Starbucks as a big bad corporation...what about all the jobs they are creating and the support they have on the local communities. Every SBux has a budget specifically allocated to contribute to the community around their location and with every store opening big bucks go to charities. Pike Place was the first location - let me remind you all that that's a small market place in Seattle. SBux are refocusing their efforts and concentrating on their core values ... I think they would fit in very well in Ken. Mrkt - if anything...they may tarnish their image a little by being around such nasty dirty stores!

DRAKE YOU HO!

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

You people don't get it.
If starbucks moves into the market it will cause a huge rent increase for residents and family businesses that are all ready having a hard time making ends meet.

The people of this neighborhood do not want this here, and your opinions unless you are from Kensington frankly do not matter.

We like our streets and stores the way that they are, it keeps out all the whiners.

And gos to show that the majority are living in a repressive society that care more about aesthetics then whether or not family's are going to be displaced.

But from the looks of how things are going this won't even go through, a part of the land is on city property which gives our counselor more ground to stand on, as he understands, although not even being from here of the importance of letting community's decide what direction they want to see their neighborhood go.

I think that even if this does end up happening, I'm sure the community will do everything in their power to shut it down. Can you imagine going to Kensington Market for a Starbucks Coffee? That's not why people go. I can see it now...local protesters booing everyone who enters the shop! Wouldn't you opt not to go there and instead find either something "Kensington" or if they must have their stupid Starbucks, they would go to the one down the block. The business would not stay open for long with that kind of commitment from the community I'll tell you that!

Dear Stabucks, Please stay out of Kensington Market in Toronto. You do not belong there.
We have had this sort of problem in Melbourne with the golden arches. It is a matter of changing the dominant discourse and forcing them out. Let them know that they do not have the RIGHT to invade your space. See <a href="http://intergon.net/tsw/sustainableceos.pdf";>http://intergon.net/tsw/sustainableceos.pdf<;/a> or <a href="http://www.myspace.com/thesustainableway";>http://www.myspace.com/thesustainableway<;/a>
Let Starbucks know that they have a DUTY to go somewhere else with their corporate operations.

Again the issue here has little to do with whose coffee tastes better, arguably it's up to the individual to decide.
Coffee here is definitely more fresh as the beans are fried on site and most coffees sold are free trade, where as starbucks only has a few free trade brands which usually aren't on tap.

The main reason we are opposed to this from happening is it will cause a rent increase and force out family's and businesses that have made this neighborhood what is.

This is a moral issue which I think highlights some of the differences in ideology of our society.

Socialist who believe that family business should be protected from being threatened by Capitalists.

The Capitalist's who think that big business should be able to make a profit regardless of negative of effects on the community.

This conception that making somewhere cleaner will actually have any effect on issues like poverty or drug use is ridiculous, and probably the main reason it exists, look at queen st, tell me the existence of any real sign that things will ever get better in parkdale or cabbage town where there are people staggering around doorways of condos and hotels who could care less if the building is clean or not.

The people here believe that the only way to deal with these problems is at a community level, when people are treated like human beings regardless of economic status, and given help they need.

And it is not as easy a simply stating that your going to clean up a deep seeded problem like you wash your car.

Most of the people who are against the Starbucks in Kensington Market are anti Americans. They're the same "type of people" of would also be opposed to any American company moving into their dirty neighborhood. Kensington Market is a dirty place, and I think a Starbucks would help clean the place up. I've been there myself. I currently live in Milton (I doubt anyone from Toronto actually knows where that is) and when I compare Milton to Kensington Market, the biggest difference is that Milton is a clean friendly place, and Kensington is a trashy dirty place.

Again, the people opposed to the Starbucks are anti Americans. They're the same people who want to turn Canada into a socialist nation.

To the person who said that Starbucks was an improvement on the corner of Bathurst/Queen. I totally agree with you on that point, it sure cleaned up all the mess that was there for a long time. I'm for Starbuck on that one, but Nassau/Augusta isn't the same messed up seedy corner. We don't need a Starbuck at Kensington Market.

Kensington is one of the few commercial neighborhoods in Toronto whose culture is really determined by the community who uses the market, and is more of a real 'home' to Torontonians than anywhere else in the city. Friends who visit Toronto from elsewhere in Canada are always impressed and warmed by it's uniqueness, even Montreal does not have an area with this particular kind of density. I'm really surprised that the value of this is even being questioned. The neighborhood needs to hold on to it's integrity. The idea of a Starbucks sitting there sounds like a depressing joke.