City
Is 83 storeys too high for Bay and Bloor?
Welcome to the era of the super condo in Toronto. Scattered around the city are developments that push building heights to 65 storeys or higher. There's the Trump Tower (which admittedly is also a Hotel), 10 York, Aura at College Park, One Bloor, and the ICE Towers — and possibly 50 Bloor West, which would be the tallest of them all at a projected 83 storeys. Well, that is if the development proposal gets approved.
Urban Toronto has been tracking news surrounding this development for a while now, but the project is getting a little more attention today on account of a National Post story that outlines some of the opposition the project is facing from local councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam.
From the Post:
"Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam of Ward 27 says the development team met with her to discuss the idea in March, but submitted its rezoning application without implementing any of her proposed changes.
'We had told the applicant not to submit, and they went ahead,' said Ms. Wong-Tam, who worries that the project's proposed driveway could impede flow on Bloor Street's manicured pedestrian walkway. 'I can tell you that the planning staff, the urban design staff, no one is ready to approve this project. It's got a long way to go.'"
Naturally, one of the controversial factors is the height of the project and the desire of the local BIA to protect area parks from sitting in shadows cast by tall buildings. And yet, given the location and the intention to maintain street-level retail by building atop the current Hotel Renfrew building, there's also an argument to be made that this is precisely where a building of this scale should go.
Few would argue against dense residential development in the area, but the question is whether or not 83 storeys is overkill?
Photo from the City of Toronto via the Post
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But Sean is right—the design of the building and the number of one, two and three-bedroom units is the main thing, plus what happens at street level.
As some of you have inferred - Toronto is growing, so you have to build. Your choices are to build out (ie Brampton sprawl) or to build up (dense downtown Toronto).
Environmentally, it is FAR preferable to build up in the city, and do your best to leave the country natural, and not swallowed by sprawl. It also creates a more vibrant, livable city (assuming the building is done well at street level).
As long as you're building these huge buildings in appropriate locations, it makes sense. As far as I can tell, Bay and Bloor seems like a completely appropriate place for a giant building like this.
Wong-Tam's "real issue" is not with the density, but a laundry list of other issues that need to be addressed. Toronto Sun types love to distil a multitude of important factors down to a NIMBY phobia of height, which is rarely the case outside of neighbourhoods like the beach.
For a bunch of architects obsessed with the building form, they're doing a pretty crappy job of designing something that doesn't look like it was sketched by a 5 year old. Tall is so overrated. Whenever something tall is proposed, the skyscraper fanboys go "awesome it's super-tall!" Is there any reason whatsoever that tall is interesting, I mean besides more 400 sq ft cheapo units?
Residential floors were a minimum of 8 feet (not counting the floor or ceiling slabs). Now some are 9, 10, or even more. Stores are usually 10 feet to, in some cases, 17 feet. Offices can be 12 or so. So if residential condos, the 83 stories will not be the same as if it were all offices and stores.
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I love those mississauga towers. They're so graceful, like those beautiful Jaguar XKEs, like the one Austin Powers drove. The rendering for this building looks like a few transport trucks from competing companies balanced end to end on one another.
Also the concerns of councilors and citizens during these meetings/consultations can be so BS. I saw in the minutes for a tower at Bloor/Parliment that a citizen said the building shouldn't be built due to it being too close to the nuclear power generator...in Pickering. Seriously.
Shadowing is BS too. With the new Four Seasons all but completed, the last bit of sun that was hitting Jesse Ketchum is gone. If we really want to improve the city, let's get more streets looking like Bloor, starting with Yo ge
Tall buildings cast huge shadows... if you're close enough and happen to be along the path the sun takes during the day... you will have total shade for a huge portion of the day.
Why not round it off to 85?
Hope they use glue for the windows. Seems newer condos are window-challenged these days...
The trees along Alexander cast shadow all day, why not chop then down to let more light in? A point tower casts a thin shadow for a short period. The same arguments were used against 281 and 285 Mutual, there is more light in the area now, replacing the 7 story CBC with 34 story towers.
A proposed project of 51 stories in the lot next to 314 Jarvis. The approved building, 16 floors built to the sidewalk would cast more shadow on the greenhouses then the proposed 51 story tower.
Too much effort is put into lowering the height of these towers. How it integrates with the street is largely ignored.
As a result there have been some very bad developments in the area, 70 Gerrard Street east, 70 Alexander.22 Wellsely street. None of these do anything but occupy space.
"The trees along Alexander cast shadow all day, why not chop then down to let more light in?"... Uhhhh because mostly they're shading the sidewalk + not the entire area where people seem to gather.
Not sure I get your whole tall buildings are better because they cast a thin shadow argument... at least not in this scenario... the two buildings together are going to cover the air above most of the block they're taking over vs. the one floor buildings that sit there now.
great idea, Toronto has one of the lamest sky lines (insert angry replies here)
We have the new subway trains on the YUS, those should be able to relieve over capacity (although those should be added to the Bloor Danforth Line as well.
The other stuff, I agree with you about.
The Aura building at Yonge-Gerrard says "from the $800 000's". How did they possibly sell enough units in that building for $800000 min? I just can't understand why someone would buy that when there are houses in Toronto that cost that much. Is every condo in that building some huge luxurious 3 or 4 bedroom with a giant balcony, huge living room, etc? I understand KWT's concern that the building is too tall, but I would be more worried about it being a giant empty building than that it would house too many people for the street and subway to handle.
Even better would be if these places were built in the suburbs, which are the places that need urbanization more than downtown Toronto.