City
TTC reveals new streetcar design
There's exciting news from the TTC today, as the new design for Toronto's streetcars has been revealed. Along with a new rendering of the vehicle in action on Queen Street, the Commission has posted a series of interior shots to its Meet Your New Ride website. To say that the new cars will be an update on the current fleet would be an understatement. Given that the original design of the Canadian Light Rail Vehicle (CLRV) dates all the way back to the late 1970s, the change is even more remarkable than what we witnessed with the introduction of the Toronto Rocket subways earlier this year.
Here are some of the stats the TTC has posted about the vehicles, which are supposed to hit the streets in 2013:
Seating: 70
Standing: 62 (average) & 181 (maximum)
Length: 30.20 m
Width: 2.54 m
Height: 3.84 m
Weight: 48,200 kg
Maximum Service Speed: 70 km/h
If you're keen on checking out the vehicles in person, the TTC will be showing off a mock-up of the front half of the vehicle from November 12-15 (10 a.m. to 7 p.m.) at the Hillcrest yards.
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Images from the TTC
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Its sad when such a small minority actually like their jobs and actually help people when asked a simple question.
These streetcars look great
Also @TakeTheCar - You're contributing to the gridlock problem. TTC has its faults, but imagine if every person on every packed streetcar decided to drive instead.
Its a me-first mentality that no streetcar or transit initiative will ever change.
But, hooray, finally!
The old articulated streetcar is 23m long and seats 61 (155 standing).
( http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4504.shtml )
So there's a few more seats, but most of the new room looks to be for standing.
And is it me, or is the driver section blocked off? No more interacting with the masses? (or taking fares/handing out transfers)...
That's north of the Baturst Subway station, just south of Davenport Road. Sounds like somewhere that the Ford brothers want it out of their sight when they drive by themselves.
I hope they change it to some other location, like Dundas Square.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/light-rail-vehicles/flexity-freedom?docID=0901260d801a291a
@QWERTY - Collectors are worth having. If you automate everything, who's watching the cameras in the station? Who's calling in or assisting in emergencies? Who's giving directions? Who's helping you when a ticket machine or turnstile jams? Who's opening the station in the morning and closing up at night? You need at least one person in the building.
That's a fact, private vehicle fetishists - better, more reliable, and more bang-for-your-buck public transit would help make your commute BETTER in the long run. Duh ...
Sarcasm aside, I guess they expect most people to stand now...not very much seating, eh?
Accessibility=awesome. Larger capacity for more riders=also awesome.
Myself, since I live in the East End and work downtown, I'll never take a streetcar to work because the subway saves me about 20 minutes. That said, if the city ever wised up to adding a toll for driving in the core similar to London's, we would generate revenue to further upgrade public transit and also make streetcars a better option by reducing traffic. Adding more spots to a streetcar is not going to ease congestion much.
Hey - I remember when the CLRVs were introduced, back when I was in high school. Thanks a lot, Derek, for making me feel old.
On a more serious note, are these streetcars just for routes like Queen, where articulated cars dominate, or will we see them on College and St. Clair, for instance, where single-length cars are used? And is there a shorter version?
Also, the interior looks like the VIVA bus.
Sadly, every time that implementing tolls are suggested drivers freak out - you know, the same drivers who whined nonstop about having to pay the astronomical sum of 0.17/day for the PVT ...
A toll would be ok if there were options for people who didn't want to pay it, but for now we can't implement one.
All Mass Transit has lousy service... the Mass is the reason it's impersonal.
Still, I think the best thing to replace Street Cars with is buses.
If you are going west from Queen and John, you will need 100 feet of clearance ahead of you to just cross the intersection, more to leave safe space infont of the streetcar. 100 feet = 30 metres.
So a TTC operator has to judge if he can make it to Shoppers Drug Mart at Queen/Beverly or else the streetcar will block John Street.
Same goes with Yonge/Dundas. Queen/College/Dundas Streetcars turning onto McCaul or parking and holding there will cause chaos!
These are too long for downtown, better to use on right of ways in the burbs!
For the record, I don't live in the downtown core, and I support a toll for cars entering the city.
1. The TTC regularly complains about having budget shortfalls - hey, let's get new streetcars. Gotta love that endless bank called 'taxpayer money'.
2. The TTC once claimed the streetcar was a Toronto icon. Now the Red Rocket looks like the kind of train found in any typical city with such a service.
3. The TTC doesn't update their streetcars with USEFUL features, like a school-bus style warning stop-sign and a long pause to tell both pedestrians and cars (and although most of them ingore the requirement to stop, cyclists) that a stop is imminent. Despite the ludicrous left-lane arrangement where eager pedestrians run into traffic and eager passengers storm out of the vehicle like racehorses coming out of a gate, the TTC would rather place the onus of pedestrian and passenger safety on the driver. Some drivers are not as clever, some are tourists, some are drunk - where's the TTC/City's typical overprotective 'for your safety' mentality here...I guess before you get on the streetcar once you step off, the TTC is happy to let any injuries be the problem of a driver involved in any possible accident. This is totally insane.
4. Here's a great idea. Let's put steel rails into the road and surround it by concrete. Coupled with the salt, the extreme winter cold and hot blazing summers will do wonders to that scenario where steel and concrete expand and contract at high different rates. It gives us a great excuse to throw more money into maintaining cracked roads on a more regular basis. Lovely isn't it? The TTC doesn't pay for these road repairs, the CITY does. But let's not replace the rails with buses that could even simulate the look of streetcars (smaller rubber wheels) which would be able to move around obstacles and eliminate both the 6-streetcar backup problem, but would also eliminate problem #3 above. Instead, we'll keep the current state of affairs which is just dandy for the TTC, as long as their marketing and tactics to push people away from driving keeps their ridership growing (instead of an effective service attracting people to use them on a more regular basis).
The TTC is just as effective in its marketing and tactics as the MLSE corporation is at maintaining its user/fan base without doing much for the people who give them their money. The TTC is doing juuuust enough to keep those who need the service dependent on it and manipulating the peripheral factors to force new users. Flashy new streetcars and marketing scheme to wow riders into believing 'hey look how progressing and modern we are', is not the answer.
The TTC needs to stop pretending like they are the defactor owners of the City streets (the people of our City do; that means EVERYONE). The City should make the busy steets no-car zones, higher capacity by making them one way with effective and vigilant zero-tolerance parking (while not targeting the easy-pickings, revenue-generating parking offenders in residential areas and/or entertainment districts), or eliminate streetcars by trashing them and replacing them with 'lookalike' buses with all the modern bells and whistles, no nonsense, safer and and on-time riders, and happier drivers who (for a change) see that the TTC is doing something tocooperate, rather than simply target them.
Maybe privatization is the better way.
Toronto now has the worst congestion on the continent, and it's no doubt in part related to the fact that Canadians are so toll averse. We think that our current taxation can sustain growth, and it can't. Without the toll, there can be no really way of creating (read paying for) the massive infrastructure expansion that is needed to accommodate the population explosion that we're in the midst of. Funds are needed for whatever the solution is going to be, and we need to get traffic out of downtown.
Not ALL of the drivers who would stop driving downtown are going to move to the streetcar.
Who's was it again that sold the 407 to private industry? I can guarantee you, the 407 owners are laughing all the way to the bank right now AND laughing at the public who dumped a revenue generating road back into the private sector because Canadian are so irrationally anti-toll. That toll road has become the only sane option to the 401 for anyone who commutes across the top of the city, and the revenues will never go back into infrastructure as they should.
Sorry, getting tangential!!
http://www.thestar.com/videozone/1081465--does-toronto-need-a-congestion-tax?bn=1
i do wish the windows opened, like the current models. the viva bus's windows dont open, and i find it annoying.
The new streetcars look amazing. I just hope they've switched back to vinyl seats, instead of the perpetually stained fuzzy material.
1, TTC driver sits in a completely separated pod. You wiill not be required to interact with him.
2, It will use a honour based fare system (proof of payment). So, you could ride it for FREE!!
"folding seats for easier mayoral access"
LOL
"i'll still take the car over the ttc", you asshole. Think we can all afford a car. This shit is a necessity. You think the ttc workers are rude? It's probably because your an asshole. Your not the center of the universe, it's time you and all you ford supporting, Etobicoke living, suberb fucks realize that.
Bring on the new streetcars. Complainers can suck it.
Well, no. I know it seems expensive to buy new streetcars, but at some point the expense of fixing the old ones overtakes the cost of buying new ones. I don't know if we're at that point, but unless you do, the above is not a legitimate complaint.
Yes, they look great, because they look better than the current ones we have BUT.....
you expect a bit more standing room areas to help with our non-existant plan for the future of public transportation? Go back to sleep people!
'm laughing all the way to work in my Mercedes.
And to say that the TTC is wasting money replacing a streetcar fleet that's 35 years old? Are you kidding me? Do you think that streetcars just last forever?
Oh yeah, drivers? You might want to blab less about your faster and "cost effective" (lol) way of getting around. The more people you encourage the drive, the more gridlock you experience. A single streetcar this size can take about 200 cars off the road, why you'd try to discourage that is a mystery to me.
Although I agree with you on trolleybuses - let's bring them back along Bay/Dupont, Avenue, Lansdowne, Dundas West, Weston, Ossington, and Mount Pleasant North. you know, where trolleybuses used to run before 1993. It's downright foolish to replace streetcars with buses: Buses carry a fraction of the people, last a fraction of the time and cost many times what a streetcar would overall-you've got to replace them four times as often and there are those darn fuel prices are only going to rise! Admittedly with trolleybuses the fuel costs don't apply but the first two main problems do! Even articulated buses couldn't handle the ridership on streetcar routes.
Taking transit for me is cheaper than driving to work every day. Even if it was more expensive I'd still take transit to spare my sanity.
Is the extra space nice? Yes.
Am I glad streetcars will finally be accessible? YES.
However, TTC is spending all this money on new subway and street cars, why don't they put HALF of the money into improving service. Sure, the new cars look great and have some cool features, but if it still takes you 2hrs by TTC for a 20 minutes drive, something isn't right.
These new streetcars aren't being built to address the congestion issues in Toronto, they're being built to replace the old decrepit streetcars that we already have.
hope this helps fuckface!
Maybe after we can fix those old decrepit ones and replace them with super shiny ones, maybe we can figure out how to fix the two lanes on king st while these new awesome streetcars take up and congest all the vehicular traffic flowing into downtown.
- My dick in your mouth
If you READ my post, I did not deny that new streetcars and subways are needed. They certainly are, however what is the point of having new cars when there are so many service improvments that need to be addressed. Personally, I'd rather be in a old, unair-conditioned car with good service rather than sitting for two hours on a fancy new car that doesn't help with anything except to appease someone's need to promote a cleaner image.
Respond away.
i am sure they are working on their shitty attitude as i write this. let's just hope these changes can permeate their organization to the core and start reflecting sooner rather than later.
this is a great first step by the ttc. and just in time for christmas - we all need something to get excited about!
Still amazing that we cancelled a 120km fully funded massive improvement to the TTC in 2011.
To be honest, I'd rather the apparently rude TTC employee (I've only had one rude TTC employee in years) and a safe ride than the thousands of assholes who drive every day on the roads and the greater risk to my life. Just be thankful you have the TTC, because the suburbs are like a wasteland if you don't have a car and are gridlocked during rush hour.
When will motorists ever learn?
The city that once led the continent in surface transit is now a sad sack laggard filled with citizens who pretty much know nothing about streetcars or LRT and mock the very surface rail system that other cities would kill for (see - new streetcar system in DC, or the dozens of others being planned or requested). At least Toronto's political and transit planning incompetence did not totally screw up the new vehicle order (slowed it down, yes, confused the public, yes, but it did at least finally happen).
Enjoy the new vehicles, as they are the one thing the TTC has gotten right. What you should do now is forget worrying about the cloth seats or number of passengers and focus on fixing how these "streetcars" operate (fare collection, number of stops, clear right of way, putting streetcars on the rapid transit maps, creating a downtown tourist loop, building new lines a la Transit City...) There is much to do if this investment is not to be wasted by the head-in-sand TTC and council.
Why do you need to attack? Not everyone has your vision for this city. The dust by the way is caused by the sand used to stop these vehicles. I will never agree with your opinion regarding these vehicles so move on.
I still haven't noticed any dust, in my experience the sand tends to sit in the flangeways, and it's not sand that's used to stop streetcars, it's magnetic brakes, sand is only used for traction if the rails are slippery.
And by the way, my "opinion" about streetcars? You're the one who has the ridiculous opinion, my friend! While your argument is based on something Rob Ford told you, mine is based on weeks of meticulous research. There is a difference. You're basically saying here that you'll never agree with weeks of meticulous research. Do you have any idea how dumb that sounds?
Sad if you honestly believe everything you read on the internet. I have attended all the TTC meetings regarding these vehicles and am fully informed thank you very much! I am entitled to my opinion and to state it in this forum. You constant need to argue or have the last say is very childish and honestly imho so are you.
I recall that they in fact have three braking systems, including the emergency brakes.
Sand is used to improve wheel grip on the rails (when approaching an incline, for example.) Not much to do with braking at all.
If sand were used to stop streetcars every intersection in the downtown core would resemble a beach. (Hmm, that would actually be pretty cool!)
This is not going to happen, the streetcar order is in, they are being built as we speak. The city has also just recently spent millions completely replacing the tracks on many routes such as Queen, King, and Bathurst. As well as other tracks such as Shaw, Church and Parliament. To simply abandon these tracks after so much work was put into them is an insane waste of money.
The concept of capacity also seems to be completely lost on people so I'm not even going to start with that.
Streetcars are not leaving this city, no matter how many hours you spend complaining about them on BlogTO.
I just stated an opinion and facts and was shot down for them. I realize that LRV's are here to stay but am entitled to lament that fact.
Before we spend any money on building a rapid transit system in the burbs, we need to fix the transit disaster we have downtown (where the critical mass of people are.) It would be wonderful if we could fix both problems simultaneously, but since evidently we haven't been able to afford to dig a single foot of subway tunnel south of the 401 in over 30 years, such an idea is a pipe dream.
It would take an Olympic Games in Toronto to be able to fund and secure the infrastructure to make everyone happy. We know what happened to that possibility.
The traffic is backed up solid but there is a subway system on every main artery. If there was a transit bus, subway etc. pass your stop every 5 minutes, you would still complain. Try living in the burbs or other cities where buses are 1/2 hr and 1 hour waits....Get over yourselves....