City
NOW writes the latest chapter in the city's East vs. West rivalry
It's a question that's been around for almost as long as Toronto itself. Is there chasm -- some deep-seated animosity -- between the East and West sides of this city? And, if so, where's the line that divides us from ourselves?
Well, just in case you thought the condominiumization of Toronto had rendered such questions moot, NOW magazine has poured a little petrol on the fire. This week's edition of the publication will feature two different covers, one for readers in the East and one for readers in the West.
It's a pretty cool idea, and one that got me thinking about the roots of this putative split. Pretty much all cities feature different cultural and socio-economic identities from neighbourhood to neighbourhood, but being split up the middle is a bit more dramatic, isn't it?
NOW has chosen Yonge St. as the dividing line, declaring it a metaphoric Switzerland in the city's rivalry. This choice has become somewhat standard when having the East vs. West debate, but I've never thought it quite right. To me, the so-called Switzerland (or purgatory, if you will) covers quite a bit more territory. I'd argue that the area between the Don Valley to the east and University/Avenue Rd. to the west is one big no-man's land.
I don't feel like I'm on the West side of Toronto when walking along Bay St. And I don't get the sense that I'm in the East when riding my bike through Rosedale. Perhaps, this expanse should be thought of as central Toronto?
There are many theories bandied about when it comes to trying to explain why it is that so many Torontonians pledge what seems to be permanent allegiance to one side of the city over the other. Chief among these, and the one that I subscribe to, is the notion that our separation was first a geographic one.
And it's for this reason that I don't use Yonge St. as the dividing line -- it's just too arbitrary. As might be obvious from my charting of the space between East and West, I've always thought that it was the Don Valley that split our city.
Prior to the completion of the Bloor Viaduct in 1918, remember, it wasn't so convenient to travel from one side of the city to the other. Although bridges existed at Queen and Gerrard streets, there were few options to cross the Don to the north (short of swimming).
Could it be that even after all these years, the valley the Viaduct crosses still poses an obstacle to a unified Toronto?
Perhaps surprisingly, the answer may be yes. While it's now easy to pass from one side of the city to the other, a certain self-sufficiency seems to have always characterized the East and West sides of Toronto, one that very well may have originated prior to the construction of the viaduct. And, maybe just maybe, this is what perpetuates the rivalry between the two.
The East has the Don River, Greektown, Leslieville and the Beach, while the West boasts the Humber, Little Italy, Queen West and High Park. And the comparisons don't end there. Residents of each side seem always able to cite a superior counterpart to a cherished attraction found on the side of the city opposite them. Based on this logic, there's little reason to travel sideways.
Is one side of Toronto truly better than the other? Well, yes -- but which one depends on who you ask.
Photo of the Bloor Viaduct under construction from the City of Toronto Archives.
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If you notice, the east end cover gets nice red bricks, that speak to history and heritage, a high iron content suggesting strength and ageless design.
The west end gets cinder-block.
'Nuff Said.
Toronto west ends at Avenue road :)
Don Valley to the east and University/Avenue Rd. to the west is one big no-man's land only if you're at Bloor St.
What about St Lawrence, Corktown, Regent Park, Old Town, etc.?
You're definitely not in the west when you're living there. Sounds like you live in the Annex.
Of course NOW's "west" only goes as far as Spadina. They really need to get out of their cocoon and discover that there's a city beyond their little insular Queen St world.
As long as these east/west enders don't ruin it for the people enjoying the entire city as a whole.. it doesn't matter.
What about the the North/Mid/South divide, NOW? Hmm. There's south of Bloor, south of the 401 and then north of the 401 divide as well...
obviously west is smarter, better, more attractive, less gross
I'd say Spadina to Church is a more accurate no-mans land. Place like corktown, distillery district, King & Sherbourne definitely do not feel like the West end. Anything 'Old Toronto' is East.
I think you've got it backwards. You'd never vandalize your own neighbourhood. The graf artists are clearly bombing their rival hoods, thus placing the handsome red bricks in the west and the sterile cinder-blocks in the East.
For the most part, I've lived within walking distance to Yonge Street - frankly, I've never had a desire to live in the east end or west end. In an east/west division of To, I think of the DVP on the east and Dufferin on west. David poses an interesting question re the North/Mid/South divide - I've been in conversations where these borders are hotly debated (much more so than the east/west divide). With respect to the east/west division, I've observed that people who grew up in either the east or the west end (and who can afford to buy in the city), tend to buy where they grew up. Not so much those who grew up in "central" Toronto. Is this because the affiliation with the neighbourhood isn't as strong or is it because central Toronto isn't as affordable for a first home?
Leslieville!! The west is more populous, so I'm sure it will get more votes, but that's one of my favorite things about the east. Not over crowded. Small town in the big city.
Truth be told, I love my neighbourhood but I don't have a problem with the west end at all (just doesn't suit my lifestyle, but I can see why some love it). It's just fun to pick sides and play along.
No mention of east side beautiful Riverdale and Leslieville? What about Cabbagetown?
I personally prefer the historic King East strip than homogenous King W.
I totally agree that 'downtown' doesn't feel east or west.. Maybe not exactly those same lines as you, but same idea. (I feel DVP to Spadina is downtown, the rest is then east or west.. and even then, between spadina to bathurst, there's a teensie bit of ambiguity. I feel the east is easier to draw the line since there's the valley.
that being said, i've lived in both ends and don't get why anyone feels any sort of animosity.. both areas have their ritzy parts, their "little-this" and "little-that" (i.e. little india, little italy, etc.).. just hop on your bike or the ttc and go where you want to go, no need to make a division. :) Maybe I'm just being naive, but ignorance is bliss...
Toronto's indie music scene happens overwhelmingly on the West, the large majority of Toronto's music venues are on the west.
The majority of Toronto's best reviewed restaurants, bars and cafes are on the West.
Toronto designer boutiques and fashion retailers are on the West.
The East has a lot of established culture going for it, but Toronto's culture is living and evolving on the West side!
EAST SIDE FOREVER!!!
Yes, I think that's a good point with Corktown, which feels like the East to me. As, I suppose, does Cabbagetown. But, I don't feel like I'm on the East side when I shop at St. Lawrence Market. So maybe Sherbourne or Parliament would be a good line?
Everything from the Etobicoke Creek, to the Rouge River, south of Steeles is one city, not a collection of 'neighborhoods.' This 1880s notion is what is killing this city.
Sure, Now's article is cute, and healthy rivalry can be fun, but NIMBYism and 'us-versus-them,' particularly with the downtown crowd, is not healthy.
The entire city must be treated as an organic whole and we need to avoid allowing petty neighborhood jealousies from strangling progress for the greater good.
"The majority of Toronto's best reviewed restaurants, bars and cafes are on the West."
Objective Reality.
West has Queen West.
'Nuff said.
I've heard that the east end has this place in it called Scarberia?! That alone must make it pretty crappy...
Actually the original did mention Leslieville. Not sure what happened, but I've restored the first wording of that paragraph to reflect this.
What is 'Scarberia' aside from an ignorant label?
What about the north?
It gets lonely up here.
The east-west divide is irrelevant. Just based on the discussions here, you can see that no one really knows where the dividing line is. However, if you ask someone about a north-south divide, you'll most likely get one of two answers: Bloor or Eglinton. To me that is more relevant to this city. Toronto and its former suburbs have always developed along the waterfront first, so the city is not as demarcated the further south you go.
If you want to see what a real dividing line looks like, head to Vancouver and compare the west side of Cambie St to the east side. Now THAT is a divide-- it's like there was a wall there once.
Nothing north of College exists to NOW.
East/West. Phfft! Fact is most of the money in this city resides and is made in between Bayview and Spadina--then heads north.
You could say the same about BlogTO.
That's pretty silly based on the efforts we're making to cover the GTA. Take a look at today's (and many recent) restaurant reviews...
I take yonge street as the dividing line for Toronto.
The East Side is the more culturally diverse part of the city, making it "richer" in what this city prides it self on, diversity.
Not to forget two China Towns, Little India, Greektown, Don Valley, Leslieville, Rouge Valley, Toronto Zoo, Scarborough Bluffs, Bridle Path/Edwards Gardens, Science Centre.
I would say the divider is the Don River, with the area between it and Yonge a transitional area; the West end has stuff to do, the East end does not. That's how I see it.
One thing is for sure though, anything north of St Clair/Danforth is hella lame. Downtown forever!
The divisions are any two areas with a poorly designed interstitial zone. Some of these zones are:
- not the Don, but the ugly roads and highway below the ugly bridges crossing them
- not the railway lands, nor the Gardiner, but the ugly and dangerous crossing of Lake Shore
- not the raised rail bed, but the ugly underpasses beneath them at King, Queen, Dundas and College West
- similar in the East end
- the entire 401, and 427
All of these are designed to maximize the velocity of cars, which they cannot guarantee anymore, but they do guarantee the discomfort of all residents.
There is defintely a divide! I live on King West and I have family in the Beaches that I never see. If someone moves there or to the Danforth, I know our hangin' out days are over. I love the east side, it's beautiful, but it's too far away, parking is terrible and cabs are expensive.
Nothing north of College exists.
Parking is better at King West?
The whole divide thing is silly. I live in Riverdale (east side, I suppose) and I adore the Victorian historical aesthetic of the neighbourhood (and the proximity to jet fuel!) but I'm just as happy to hop on the streetcar and visit the west side and explore all that is has to offer.
I have friends who refuse to live anywhere other than the west side, and I get that. I'd never leave my beloved riverdale. Everyone has different spots that they love for whatever reason, that's what makes a city so great and diverse. But I can still appreciate the rest of the city.
Why do we always feel the need to dichotomize? I used to live in London and it was also divided into the north/south, and they had the same neighbourhood wars. Dumb.
East SIDEEEEEEEE...til I die. OK, enough of that. East York, the Danforth, Riverdale, the Beaches, the Don Valley...that's enough reason why the East side is the best.
I totally agree that the Don Valley represents the geographic divide. I've lived east and I've lived west but truth be told, I prefer the middle.
There's no debate. One side makes culture, the other side makes babies. One side boasts of a beach you can't swim in, the other side boasts of bars, clubs and restaurants visiting stars and cultural icons want to be seen in. One side has a zoo where they lock up animals, the other side is a zoo where the animals are free to roam. If you can't figure out which is which, you probably live on the wrong side. Sucks to be you!
No one ever sees anyone from the beaches. I think they prefer it that way.
I can't think of much on the east side that's any good or good enough to get me to go over there... Some of my friends and I (all west-enders) lived over there for a little while and we all hated it and ended up back on the other side within a year.
The best part about the east side is the lack of west side hipsters hanging around.
I'm a west guy and the st Lawrence market always feels like the east side - and I mean that in a good way. love that area. definitely doesn't feel like the west side. it just seems calmer, more neighborhood-y, and the views are pretty different on that side of town. there's more lower rise on the east side, so the views of the core just seem more dramatic.
It may be worth noting that the geographic centre of the city is actually all the way over at Don Mills & Eglinton, basically right where the Ontario Science Centre is.
Travis.. which zoo do you mean, where animals can roam around? (I'm not being critical, I just want to see this place!)
Well....I am not from Toronto originally so I think I can be objective (I've lived in TO for 11 years.)
There is this divide between the east and west for the following reason: the west end folks are snobs because they make more money. Their snobbery is what instigates the divide. The east enders hate the west enders because of this snobbery.
I can afford to live in the best neighbourhoods in the east end and west end. Yes, I have been LUCKY in life. (I think west enders would say they DESERVE IT, while east enders would say they were LUCKY. It is called, HUMILITY) Anyhow, even though I can afford both sides of the city, I have chosen to live in the east- the beach more specifically. Why have I chosen the beaches:
1) Because it is the most beautiful place in the city.
2) Because the people who live in the beach are without doubt the most down-to-earth and friendly people in the city.
Whoa, hold on. You'd better not be lumping the Prince Edward Viaduct into the "ugly bridges" group. If so, please leave. Also, I like the old railway subways, especially the one on King West. The are interesting fragments of a past age, and add to the overall urban fabric. I've always been partial to the buildings and infrastructure of Toronto's earlier more industrial age however.
Also, seeing as you're on an anti-car tirade (what's new here), these bridges, underpasses and other bits of the infrastructure aid everyone; not just cars. Streetcars and subways cross the Don. Streetcars, buses, and pedestrians can cross with ease where there used to be at-grade train crossings. The 4-series highways, well I guess they are car exclusive, so you can have that one.
Also, crossing Lakeshore is only dangerous if you're some sort of moron. Is it pleasant? Not entirely, but I think that people really build it into something worse than it is. Ever seen NYC, Chicago, Tokyo? They've got bustling areas even in the shadows of elevated highways and railways. I really think we need to embrace our similar areas as well (check out the planned West Donlands Underpass Park for some inspiration).
The east side and the west side ARE different. But I live on the east side and I can safely say that a lot of the neighbourhoods within the east side strongly differ from one another, and I assume the same of the west. The Beaches and Cabbagetown are not very similar for instance although both are great in their own ways. Toronto is made up of a collection of neighbourhoods. Can't we just leave it at that?
Also I don't think the people differ that much from one side to another. You'll find great people anywhere, just as you'll find assholes anywhere. Such is the way of life.
Sorry? You're comparing Toronto to Tokyo in a favourable way? I lived in Tokyo for three years. If you've even been there, I don't think you got the place. Is Toronto more green? Sure. Is it easier to drive a bloated vehicle in? Certainly. But there's this niggling thing: if you're bored in Toronto, you've spent a weekend there; if you're bored in Tokyo, it's time to kill yourself.
NOW's world goes from the lake to bloor and from the Danforth to Ronscy.
It knows nothing about the rest of the city. I can't wait to read the stupid article.
It's a city of neighbourhoods all over the place. There is no divide, NOW morons.
I posted a comment earlier about the west-enders being snobby. Well...I think I was too negative. There are great people on both sides of Yonge as Peter stated.
One last thing: Even though I do love the beaches neighbourhood the most and decided to live there, there are plenty of places in the west that are fantastic. For me, I love Bloor West Village and High Park and the Humber River. We Torontonians are lucky as we are blessed with so many great neighbourhoods. And these neighbourhoods are getting better and better and the pace of improvement has accelerated substantially in the past 5-10 years. I can't wait to see what our city will be like 10 years from now!
I'm with Krista on this.
I live right at Yonge and Bloor. Somewhere roughly at the cross roads of the East and West side.
The divide is deep and palpable. When you cross back and forth over the border as often as I can, you definitely feel a distinct difference in the vibe, look and feel. The West side has way more money and better architecture and design. The East side is all about families, many of whom seem unhappy with each other.
I spend most of my time on the West side. When friends move to the East side, like Krista, I know this marks the end of our " hanging out " days.
Getting in and out of the East side is so time consuming and so far, you just don't want to go unless you absolutely have to.
Warmflash, Sorry to let you know but the majority of the high income areas according to the Statscan map show that they are indeed East of Yonge Street. The proof is in the pudding!
http://www.brocku.ca/maplibrary/Atlas2001/Toronto/avghouseincome.pdf
What about North & South? Divided by the 401, the old North York tries it's best and fitting in with the south. Ha, good luck.
This is a discussion only a born & bred Torontonian can appreciate and acknowledge. Seems as if the majority of the people replying are all based out of the downtown core (more than likely not born and raised in Toronto since the downtown core is where people from out of town come and settle) and don't really know how deep rooted this argument is.
Growing up in the NorthWest end of the city (Downsview/North York) everyone knew that Yonge St. was pretty much the border. Anything pretty much East of Bayview was considered to be 'Scarborough' lol, even though we knew it wasn't. West Enders rarely went East, unless it was a school trip, sports related, or were visiting some girl they met while out clubbing who happened to be from the East end.
The West end is an older part of the City, where immigrants first settled in Toronto up until the mid or late 80's when more housing was built in the east...affordable ones too. Now, the west end has more established neighborhoods because of the initial flood of immigrants eg. Italian, Portuguese, Irish, Jewish, Caribbean etc.. whereas the newer wave of immigrants settled in the East eg. South Asian being the majority.
As mentioned, there are various divides of the city regarding territorial or neighborhoods. Anything south of Bloor and part of the 'Old Toronto' is considered Downtown. Anywhere along Yonge St. or between that DVP-Spadina corridor is extremely expensive and was usually occupied by WASPs. For example...schools such as: Upper Canada College, Northern, Lawrence Park, Riverside, all the way up north to Newtonbrook were majority WASP schools...and rich neighborhoods. North/Central Toronto is exactly that, central, and not east or west.
Even the names of streets change from East to West. Bloor becomes Danforth, Wilson > York Mills, College > Carlton.
Ask any born & bred Torontonian...NON-DOWNTOWNER...if they used to cross over either to the East or West end of where they grew up and they'll say no.
West is the best. :)
I've lived in Bloor West Village which is fairly yuppy west End -- in "North Korea" which is Yonge and Finch (i.e North York) and now live on the Danforth in Greektown.. Now having lived and played in 3 corners of the city I can safely say that yes there are cultural and wealth differences between them - but is any of them better then the other? Certainly not - You can't compare Bloor West Village to Danforth.. You can't compare Little North Korea to Roncessvelles. The differences are so great between these neighborhoods that they can't even be compared. All of these variant hoods make this city richer, those of us whom are taking sides probably haven't even been up to those areas I've mentioned anyway.
I've lived in Bloor West Village which is fairly yuppy west End -- in "North Korea" which is Yonge and Finch (i.e North York) and now live on the Danforth in Greektown.. Now having lived and played in 3 corners of the city I can safely say that yes there are cultural and wealth differences between them - but is any of them better then the other? Certainly not - You can't compare Bloor West Village to Danforth.. You can't compare Little North Korea to Roncessvelles. The differences are so great between these neighborhoods that they can't even be compared. All of these variant hoods make this city richer, those of us whom are taking sides probably haven't even been up to those areas I've mentioned anyway.
You all know that Yonge Street is the dividing line for this city. I mean hello that's when all streets either turn to west or east right? I think this is an interesting way to look at our city. I know you have all encountered someone at some point who may mistake you for being from the opposite side that you are and you well in most cases take offense and state proudly whether you are from east or west end. Theres also a divide between"Uptown" and "Downtown" people but that is more along the lines of distinguishing where you are from outside of the west and east.
I was born on the East side (North York General represent!) but we quickly moved West, and I spent my formative years there. By sheer accident I ended up living on the East side - Queen and Pape - due to cheaper rents and now I wouldn't live anywhere else. When I bought a house it was only a few blocks north.
However, I would concede that the "entertainment" aspect of the East is poor. Other than the Danforth, there's nothing out here.
I would guess this is primarily due to the physical barriers of the Don and the psychological barriers of subway stops past Sherbourne.
I don't mind this as I can enjoy my quiet retreat while still living a 10-minute drive to my office at Front and University, but I definitely understand why people prefer to hang out in the West.
@ Clover_Leaf - that's pure truth right there. I was born downtown, grew up in the East end .. now live in North York - Willowdale. Everything you said is true as far as small town folk and immigration settlement trends are concerned. I have a lot of friends who are from small towns across Ontario that all move to Toronto and settle in the "trendy" parts of downtown but don't understand the history of the social dynamic in this city.
The East was def. dry but had its quirks. There are still parts of the West end that I've never been in my life. It really is a tale of 2 cities that many people might have a hard time understanding unless they were born or raised here.
I've lived in Toronto for 5 years and I only first traveled east of the Don Valley a month ago.
I feel the Don Valley is the dividing line and the area west of the Don to Yonge is the middle. I've been known to jokingly refer to Yonge as the ass-crack of Toronto - with nice cheeks on either side! I live on the west side (Bloor/Spadina) and I wonder if people forgot the old saying of NOBs and SOBs - north of Bloors and south of Bloors. I used to live around Spadina and St. Clair and didn't like it at all. Everything I did required getting down to at least Bloor. I've only gone over to the east side of the Don to meet people over there or for exploration on my bike. If I lived on the east side, I imagine I'd be coming over to the west for just about everything.
Technically those high income areas are within city limits.
Technically.
But they're really not part of the city. Those areas are suburban sprawl.
The people up there may have a lot money, but they aren't spending any on making their area attractive or interesting. It's hard to consider it part of the city. There's no one on the streets. Only cars.
Oh. My. God. WHO GIVES A SHIT.
i feel that the reasonable compromise here is for everyone from the west side to be shot.
I grew up in Bloor West Village--when I was in highschool in Humberside all of my friends that didn't go to school with me lived around Chester station. My best friends' boyfriend went to Malvern. Needless to say we were in the east a whole bunch.. But, then again, you made a very broad statement and there will always be exceptions if you do, so you might be right in general.
Wow! I live on the East... I live near Riverdale, if I have to read one more comment about the people who live in the West make more money, they are highly uneducated ignorants. Some of your more seen Toronto celebrities from News and TV live here on the east, my neighbours are ballerinas, when I go for coffee I can see CityTV anchors at my local Starbucks. There is PLENTY of money on this side. Do not be mistaken.
If you grew up in Toronto, you have a divide, because you became acustomed to your sites, why go to High Park if you live near Riverdale, why head out to Sunnyside if you have Ashbridge's, you hungry? Either you will say Danforth or College. Forest Hill or Victoria Village
And the divide is really downtown, how anyone doesn't deem the downtown as between Yonge and University, North and South...the divide even far North is still East and West.
But for those snooty west siders who think they are so above us East Tdoters, we have 2 of the biggest weekend festivals on our side of the city, the Taste of the Danforth and Pride. And I know you have no comparison for that!
I'll say this on the WEST side we have the BIGGEST PARADE in North America.....CARIBANA BUDDY!!!! What that generates dwarfs all other festivals in this city.
Funny how the West-End got more than twice as many votes above, yet all the comments I see are from East-Enders. Maybe some folks feel the need to justify their end of the city...