Morning Brew: January 13, 2009
Photo: "Glass and Blue Sky" by wvs, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.
What's happening in the GTA (and sometimes beyond):
The winners from Spacing's thinkTORONTO competition are on display at city hall through the 18th. The winning proposals would dramatically remake parts of the city - for the better. City planners are particularly fond of the proposal to add skylights to PATH, which would bring sunlight underground in a beautiful way.
2009 had been such a good year for the TSX. Well, it was up this year anyway, until a nearly 300 point dip yesterday wiped out the year's gains - and put the market down overall for the new year. A drop in oil prices is getting blamed, so when the price at the pump drops, know that it comes with a hefty price tag on your investments.
With mounting frustration over the strike at York U, and an offer on the table the union says is unacceptable, one family has turned to Facebook to give prospective students a warning: do not come to York. York's admissions people may want to start their own Facebook group, with a new slogan: Come to York U, where classes won't get in the way of making new friends!
I know it's gonna be cold when Metro Morning informs me we've already reached the day's high (-1, btw) by 7am. Starting tonight, and continuing the rest of the week, Toronto is going to feel like a deep freezer, with temperatures reaching -30 with the wind chill. Although it's been useful making ice on the back porch, I much prefer the +30 days in summer.
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Toronto native Howie Mandel is in hospital after going in last night with an irregular heartbeat. When offered the case with a heart attack Mandel shouted "No Deal!" and then promptly took the next offer, which included an overnight stay and release later today.
Remember how back in December Greyhound announced it would tighten security at the bus terminal on Bay Street? Yeah, ok, me neither. Well, apparently, those changes haven't happened yet.
Three young men died in a car crash last July after leaving a Muskoka golf club, and now 16 staff members, including managers and executives, of that club were charged with serving the victims too much booze. The accused will have to prove there was no negligence in order to not be found guilty, but I'm thinking that when you serve three young men 31 drinks in just a couple of hours - and then let them drive away - you are more likely to become a shining example of negligence, not the other way around.
Well after last week's lottery debacle any Fruit Smash winning ticket may sound too good to be true, but Scarborough's Dawn Dudgeon won the $75,000 jackpot. Now she's going to Disney World! No, really, she is.
Comments (49)
"City planners are particularly fond of the proposal to add skylights to PATH"
seriously, is this really our priority? the problem with the PATH is that,just like the TTC, connects to NO WHERE... and nobody knows how to get around..it doesnt connect to yonge and bloor, and it doesnt go east and west.. i think the path should be built parallel to the subway line, such that people in downtown have an option to walk to work and get around, done in underground completely given our weather condition, and terrible transit system
I'm not saying PATH is perfect, but I do think it's much more extensive than most people realize. Here's a map (pdf).
"Three young men died in a car crash last July after leaving a Muskoka golf club, and now 16 staff members, including managers and executives, of that club were charged with serving the victims too much booze. The accused will have to prove there was no negligence in order to not be found guilty, but I'm thinking that when you serve three young men 31 drinks in just a couple of hours - and then let them drive away - you are more likely to become a shining example of negligence, not the other way around."
Three young men drank to much, than got in their father's car, then drove that car and something terrible happened. When do people start taking responsbility for their own actions. The servers didn't make them drink, the owner didn't tell them to drive home, the bartender didn't give them beer cans before coming into the bar.
If you had read the article that was linked, you'd see it clearly explains that one of the city's senior urban designers likes the concept. Nowhere does it say that it's a priority and no such proposals have been put before any city committee, as far as I know. Stop freaking out, man.
And I second Joshua's comment that a lot of people underestimate the size of the path system. It's already fairly extensive (though in some places, a bit tough to navigate). You can get from the Atrium on Bay to the ACC without going outside. That's pretty impressive. Also, the city is looking to expand the system, though I'm not sure what stage any of the extensions are at right now. I know the first one will run north under York Street, from the west end of Union Station to Wellesley to connect to the PATH system there. One big problem with fast tracking a ton of extensions is that, just like digging new subway tunnels, expanding the PATH is very, very expensive.
PATH is great but I have a hard time following it around if I'm not familiar with the route... the signage is so dated and the entrances make the underground system look like a bomb shelter... sky lights would be nice, but cheap window box lights would be more cost-effective and easier to implement.... I think PATH just needs a facelift and some good PR.
Ditto on the PATH being a big asset. And yes, it's a good idea to extend it to the underground complex at Bloor, and eventually Eglinton. Current expansion plans include a new link from Scotia Plaza north to the Bay store/Queen subway station, from the Sheraton west to the Four Seasons/ Osgoode station, and from the AC Centre west to York St. and Maple Leaf Square. All this and skylights too? Wonderful!
Regarding charging the golf club staff, it's unfortunate that when tragedy strikes, some people are so intent on making someone (anyone!) pay that they'll forget that sometimes it really is the victims who were responsible for what happened to them.
I'm more impressed that these guys had such good service. I'm lucky if I manage to get more than 2 or 3 drinks at the bar over the course of the night.
isn't it very clear from all the comments that the issue here is not about letting light into the PATH.. so why spend money on building things that people don't want and don't need..(but oh yeah, that's what our city loves doing, building things people don't need, i forgot)...the stores there are boring.. they should pay a visit to Japan and see how they do it over there..i don't think to dig holes around above ground to create stupid skylights..let me guess the city planners need works to do to keep their job?
Hey jack, which of the proposals in Spacing did you find useful? Or perhaps you submitted one you think is better?
This may not have been my personal favourite proposal, but I liked it because it would add interesting visual elements above ground - including making PATH more noticeable - and would draw people underground to see the city from below ground, which would lead people to actually use PATH (and make it easier to navigate).
I get you don't like it, fine, but it does have merit and what's so very wrong with thinking big?
Maybe the parents shouldn't have started the anti-York FB group. Kids are applying because they generally do things their parents DON'T want them to do!
These weren't city planners coming up with these ideas. Just regular young people. Even if you read the article they clearly state that it's really only being considered for future PATH areas:
Parakh cited the Bay Adelaide Centre, still under construction, as a future site where skylights in open space would connect PATH users with the world above ground.
And as for the lack of decent businesses, that isn't something the city can directly control. They can't call up Indigo and tell them they're opening a new store under the TD Centre.
You have to attract businesses by making the space friendlier to the people who shop at those businesses.
Right now the PATH system is used primarily by office workers who work in the highrises above. So, it makes sense that the shops consist of Grand and Toys, suit and tie shops, cellphone/gadget stores, etc.
As the PATH system starts extending beyond the financial district, you'll start seeing stores with a larger variety. Take a look at the area under the Bay and Holt Renfrew on Bloor for example. There's a little mini-path system there as well that some nice shopping that connects to the Manulife Centre and Cumberland Terrace.
Isn't the PATH system basically just the City co-paying to connect the basements of a whole bunch of buildings? It may not be cheap but it's a very valuable investment. As for the utility of the stores, it's not like the City leases out the places, that's up to the companies who own the space (like Cadilac Fairview and the sort) so I imagine those stores do pretty well for themselves.
Also, I think there's a plan in place to extend the path from union station to Simcoe Place (Front and Simcoe) and once the RBC building is done Simcoe Place will again be connected with Metro Place or whatever that thing under the square beside Metro Hall is called.
at the end of the day, it is coming out from our tax dollars... i live right on the PATH and I don't even use it as it leads to nowhere..not because it doesn't have skylights.. I don't use it because there are no unique stores.. i don't use it because it leads to nowhere... the portion under Bay street is dead during weekends for obvious reasons... and it doesn't connect to areas where condo residents(high density, potential traffic) live.. so what good is this? in an ideal world, i think the path should run parallel to the subway lines to encourage people walking.. walking = more foot traffic = more people walking by the stores, and spending money.. if the subway is down in dt.. people now can walk underground downtown to go anywhere.. and who cares about skylights
The PATH leads a lot of places. The problem is the confusing layout and lack of proper signage prevents people from ever realizing this.
Jack, the PATH already allows pedestrians to bypass Union, King, Queen, Dundas, St. Andrew and Osgoode stations.
I'm not sure if the City pays for PATH construction any more. In fact, I believe that developers pay the City for the privilege of connecting their buildings to the PATH.
I agree that skylights are more icing than cake, and that the underground shops are mundane. But the above-ground destinations make up for that, and these skylights should help reconnect the two levels.
What's your problem Jack? You don't like lights?? Any idea to bring "light" into the PATH is a good idea, wouldn't you agree? And with reference with Japan, don't you think these sleek, modern and utilitarian pieces would add to an already bleek architectural future that Toronto still hasn't moved towards?? Baby steps my friend... and hopefully we'll walk someday.
You keep saying it leads nowhere but it just doesn't lead anywhere YOU want to go. I live at Yonge and Queen and have taken PATH to go see a Leaf game during a snowstorm. Came in pretty handy actually.
As for the quality of the stores, it connects Union Station with the Eaton Centre so technically someone could take the GO train from the burbs to go shopping and never have to walk outside. I guess because there isn't a door to PATH in the basement of your condo it is completely useless?
Wow... let's keep this Muskoka story on the down-low huh? Word might spread that bartenders make people DRUNK!!!!(*GASP) Isn't this what happens all over the world?!! Take responsibility for your own actions folks. Otherwise, ban alchohol.Respectufully yours, Parkdalian.
That's exactly what my parents do badbhoy. Take a Via train to Toronto, walk to the Eaton Centre/The Bay via the PATH system, do some shopping and meet me for lunch.
Which is impressive considering my Mother has absolutely no sense of direction. After getting turned around once or twice, she has had no problems getting to the mall from the Train station. Which just goes to show the problem isn't necessarily the layout, but more the signage
I'm shocked at the people that don't think the PATH goes anywhere or that there are any decent stores in it. It's great to be able to walk inside from Metro Hall to the Eaton Centre and ACC, as well as connect those with Holt's via a Subway ride.
For shopping you have Books For Business (really great store), at least one Coles, 35 Starbucks, Harry Rosen, Gap, La Senza, Take Me Home (a great home store), Longo's, Black Eyed Susan's for great flowers... As well as The Bay and everything at the Eaton Centre. Sorry that you can't get a bong or a $100 Anime doll from Magic Pony but everything else is covered. The only people that complain about the PATH are people who don't use the PATH. work downtown for a bit and you love it as well as know all the nooks and crannies.
What on January 13, 2009 9:31 AM
"Three young men died in a car crash last July after leaving a Muskoka golf club, and now 16 staff members, including managers and executives, of that club were charged with serving the victims too much booze. The accused will have to prove there was no negligence in order to not be found guilty, but I'm thinking that when you serve three young men 31 drinks in just a couple of hours - and then let them drive away - you are more likely to become a shining example of negligence, not the other way around."
Three young men drank to much, than got in their father's car, then drove that car and something terrible happened. When do people start taking responsbility for their own actions. The servers didn't make them drink, the owner didn't tell them to drive home, the bartender didn't give them beer cans before coming into the bar.
thats a pretty dumb thing to say....
anyone who has more than 4 drinks in an hour will no doubt be feeling it.. as for th epeople being charged, i say damn right.
its pretty naiive to serve 3 guys 10 drinks each in 2 hours and expect them to be okay to drive..
with the ontario agco stating servers/bar staff need to be smart serve certified to sling suds(www.smartserve.org), i find it really hard to believe no one working saw them drunken state these boys were in..
it is criminal negligence, and yes there should be some responsibility on the driver and passengers, but ultimately, i bet the bartender was more interested in a bigger tip, than ensuring they got home safely..
worst case scenario, after these guys pay their tab and decide they want to drive, you call the cops.. or get a plate number, or downright have a cab waiting for them..
stupidity all around,
Mr. Hood, what's stupid is that had he lived, the driver and no one else would have been charged. It's only because the driver can't be charged that the police instead charged the staff of the club.
Alive or dead, the responsibility is still the driver's.
And telling drinking drivers otherwise is very stupid indeed.
What about the fool who got caught speeding on the DVP while driving drunk a few days ago? Was he culpable for his actions, or should we be chasing down the server at the club or bar that served him before he got in his car and drove 231 km/hr drunk?
You want sunlight? Walk outside, that's why its called the outdoors. But its cold and snowy and slushy outside? Guess what, the skylights are coverd by the shyte too, so much for your light.
Wow Mr. Constant Negativity.. you live up to your name(hahaa) And i thought "I" was negative.
First off, if you haven't noticed, the PATH's convenience serves it's purpose during our horrid winter months. And maybe the new sky lights can have a self-defrosting devise to help them stay clean and clear? Just a thought.
Maybe a new year's resolution for you could be to become Mr. constant positivity(?) Trust me, I'm working on that myself.
replying to everyone.. stores & shopping malls in toronto are in generally very boring.... the PATH as this point has very limited purposes and usage.. people should think a bit more long term if building more subway lines is not feasible.... the skylights is a stupid idea as in the long run, you need people to clean it, maintain it etc.. homeless people start making them their shelters, just like that stupid park in Yorkville
Ok seeing as how everyone's so keen on paying 5 cents for a useless plastic bag, you all understand things cost money right? There should be a toll for using the PATH 5 cents to enter and 5 cents to exit UNLESS you have a valid receipt from one of the stores proving that you purchased something while down there. Improvements and maintenance cost money, you ain't gonna be using the PATH to stay warm and get light for no reason, if it's worth it pay the toll or walk outside!
Maybe Jack and Mr. Constant Negativity should merge as one and create a MEGA-negativity group(*if you run, there might be room in Facebook!)
First off, stores "everywhere" are sometimes boring(*deal with it) And to suggest that the PATH has no purpose, is incredibly ignorant and ridiculous(*no disrespect) As i mentioned in another article post, maybe if we were more "positive-minded" we could see that skylights could either create jobs for people(maybe those BUMS you speak of?) or better yet, have a de-frost device installed in them to keep them clear of snow and ice.
And lastly, what does the stores not attractive have anything to do with this ThinkToronto idea of a skylight??
hey idiot, don't twist my words.. where did I say the PATH has NO purpose.. learn how to read before commenting, asshole... if the skylights idea was that good.. people in Hong Kong and Japan would have adopted that..and if the PATH was really that great, we wouldn't be even having this conversation...
Skylights on the side walks, rooftop gardens, people walking underground... CRAZY WORLD I tell you. Craaaazzzy World.
Jeez, take it easy. Just because you haven't been able to construct a rational argument why you don't like PATH doesn't mean you have to start attacking people.
You didn't specifically say that it serves no purpose, but you did say things like "it leads nowhere", "the stores are boring" and "what good is this".
And your response to fact that PATHconnects to the Eaton Centre is that most stores in malls in Canada are boring as well? What are you looking for? Waterslides? Do they have that in Japan and Hong Kong?
My appologize Jack, for misinterpreting your disgust for the PATH. I should have read between the lines that you really do have something(*something!) positive to say about the PATH.
Also, where did i say we should be like Japan or HK? Can we not design or innovate ourselves? And when did I say the PATH doesn't have it's flaws??(*ie. signage) Sounds like someone else was jumping the gun on what others are thinking. It goes both ways on email unfortunately. Except, i don't resort to name calling.
ANd to Mr. Negativity, great response! Way to debate an issue!!!
Thanks Parkdalian glad you like in a sarcastic way.
Just so you're aware I'm not here to debate just to share my thoughts, points and brainstorm with the rest of you, I put it out there and see if it sticks, not here to argue with you about why you're terribly wrong.
if you call this innovation, you really need to go see the world.. I am all for the PATH, just not the sky lights
As for what they have in hk and japan.. you should go see it for yourself..
Thanks Negativity, duely noted(*that you have no idea what the difference is between posting a though or opinion on a blog to debating an opinion on a blog) Way to contradict yourself.
I'm also not here to debate or put anyone down, let's be clear on that. I'm simply stating my opinion as to why your opinions don't necessarily "stick" with me(*if that's ok) You should expect a little debate when posting a comment on a world-wide blog by the way. With all due respect.
Of course I expect debate, comments etc thats how it all works lets try a sample of how it could go,
"we could see that skylights could either create jobs for people(maybe those BUMS you speak of?) or better yet, have a de-frost device installed in them to keep them clear of snow and ice."
Create jobs, these skylights aren't gonna create any jobs, it will create a contract for a company to install and maintain them. You wanna create jobs, buy an automobile and save a few GM or FORD jobs, plus oil and gas industry jobs. You should drive and not use the PATH if you want to go the employment angle. ALSO PEOPLE it really depends on how much of the underground is exposed to street level that skylights could go in, alot of it exists right under office towers and private property, then is exposed to the sidewalk crosses the street then back under a tower. It may just be a few of them here and there...
Oh WOW.. now your all FOR the PATH?!! Well..... this discussion should have ended many posts ago shouldn't it have?!(geez)
Good night folks! Pleasure discussing these topics(*my bad, not debating)
I think the PATH system needs a BIA specifically for the underground retailers.
- Consistant and CLEAR wayfinding signage located at regular intervals.
- Garbage Cans and Benches at regular intervals. These don't have to be the same style, as each underground mall might prefer something that matches their decor, but in the event multiple malls are okay with the same design, they could save money on larger bulk orders (same goes for other 'furniture')
- Lets be honest, the Eaton Centre is going to be a major destination for most people. Directional arrows in regular locations indicating how to get there (and other major landmarks, such as City Hall) would be better than the current system (Only adjacent buildings are indicated on signage)
- Major Hubs, such as Dundas Square or Union Station should also have adequete signage showing the directions to all of these places.
- More visible surface access. Most people are surprised to find out of underground malls. Skylights would do this very well, but there are also other means.
No I'm not all for the PATH!! The only times I ever used it was when we was young we'd get drunk with know where to go like some kids do, and we'd go down into the path at night and walk about and stumble around.
Its one thing to come up with an idea it's another how actual feasible it is. I agree with Jack in that is the lighting in the underground really the biggest thing on our plate for improving Toronto? Its sort of a Neato idea... maybe cool in a designey way but really you'll be in the underground stare up at the skylight then move on, thats not really any improvement or innovative.
*sigh... Mr. negativity, please read to whom i'm responding to when writing on here please. I was responding to Jack.
And in regards to the skylight, i never said it was the be-all-end-all of city initiatives. Of course it's not high end infrastruture, it's simply a "different" and fun addition to our otherwise sometimes bleek architectural urban landscape(*I dont want to sound too negative now..haha)
On another topic, one other ThinkToronto proposal was the illuminated crystal-like TTC entrances! Wow.. what is it with me with the underground and lights today!(haha)
Ok I'm going on like a babbling idiot but you posted right after me and didn't shed a skylight onto whom you were respond too... so thought it was for me. You didn't say me nor jack. I hold you personally responsible for this mix up.
You blame me for the mix-up? Really?
Just thought i'd point out that beside our names on here, you know, beside the date and time of our comments.. there reads "replying to a comment from".
But i won't hold that against you. We all make mistakes.
Thanks again for resorting to name calling Jack. And don't forget to re-read "badboys" comment about you. I think he says everything that's needed.
Regards,
"Three young men died in a car crash last July after leaving a Muskoka golf club, and now 16 staff members, including managers and executives, of that club were charged with serving the victims too much booze. The accused will have to prove there was no negligence in order to not be found guilty, but I'm thinking that when you serve three young men 31 drinks in just a couple of hours - and then let them drive away - you are more likely to become a shining example of negligence, not the other way around."
Three young men drank to much, than got in their father's car, then drove that car and something terrible happened. When do people start taking responsbility for their own actions. The servers didn't make them drink, the owner didn't tell them to drive home, the bartender didn't give them beer cans before coming into the bar."
What is not being told to the media or by the media is that the driver was not dinking, the corner is a well known hazard that is usually taken at 40km instead of 120km/h and why the kitchen manager is being charged when he had no clue about what customers are drinking how much. He is in charge of running the kitchen, not keeping an eye on how much customers are drinking.
This is all about some rich Toronto parents not wanting their children to accept responsibilty...typical! People need to start taking responsibilty for their actions and the actions of their children.
Off Road Action, the media did today report that 13 of the 16 employees being charged were not even at work at the time.
That the OPP would knowingly charge these people anyway is a clear abuse of their power.
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