This pit is now safe? 14 alleged swarmers arrested
Following on the entry from a couple of weeks ago about group swarmings in public parks, the Star is reporting that Toronto Police have arrested 14 youths in connection with the swarm attacks.
All of the arrested individuals are young offenders and as such their names will be protected; Toronto Police is holding a press conference later today to discuss the arrests. The swarmings took place mostly in Dufferin Grove Park and Christie Pits and involved physical assault as well as theft.
OK, it doesn't guarantee 100% safety for all peoplekind in Christie Pits after dark, but it's nice to see these alleged muggers taken off the streets for the time being.
Photo, "Christie Pits Panorama," by sjgardiner, as seen in the blogTO Flickr pool.
Comments (30)
"it's nice to see this particular group taken off the streets for the time being."
These kids are innocent until they have a trial. Swarmings are not half as dangerous as the assumption that because someone has been arrested, they are guilty.
Well, let's just hope that someone isn't calmed down by this so much that they end up getting swarmed in the Pitts tonight. And there's no guilty or innocent question. They are innocent until proven guilty. Period. Basis of western law and it should be the basis of coverage. Especially after the Truscott thing.
Just be a bit responsible. Just a little bit. That's all I'm saying.
Interestingly, about a week ago my brother and a group of his friends were swarmed in a park in a very similar fashion, by a big group of teens. But in Milton (that's a town past Mississauga).
I doubt it's the same group travelling all the way to Milton, so I have to wonder what this represents. Coincidence, or are swarmings becoming unusually popular this summer among groups of young criminals?..
And what does that even mean?
"Guilty or innocent, the arrests will have a calming effect on the community, methinks."
Are you saying that innocent people should be arrested if it calms the community? I don't get your point.
"Swarmings happen all the time, all over the map."
Actually, not according to Google, or to Google News. I certainly never heard of this practice before I moved here from Montreal in the '80s.
It seems to be a uniquely Toronto (or GTA) thing. Or maybe other parts of the English-speaking world just don't have such a colourful term for it.
My point: I think Matt included his statement to reflect what the result of the arrests will be, not to presume their guilt. Matt?
We're clearly all on the same page and understand that these kids are not yet proven guilty, and until they are, they are not guilty. No one has even been named here, so I'm not sure why you're getting in a huff over this.
i think the comparison to truscott is a little over the top. truscott was wrongly convicted of rape and murder and sentenced to hang. these kids haven't even been convicted yet and when they do they'll most likely get probation.
You don't think that swarmings happen often in Bangkok? London? Paris? Moscow? Montreal? We've had swarmings in society since we were neanderthals.
And sorry if I was unclear - I'm not comparing these kids to Truscott. I'm just saying that people --especially those in the media-- should avoid leaping to conclusions. I would think the media would operate with a bit more caution --for a least a few days-- after that large, awful and public of a debacle.
For God's sake, the police didn't even need to give their press conference before BlogTO declared Christie Pits safe. It's totally irresponsible.
I think what Canadians refer to as "swarming" would be simply called "mugging" elswehere. You can't even find a reference on Wikipedia to swarming as referring to a group mugging.
Ryan Oakley. Before these arrests, the probability that the "swarmers" were still at large was close to 100%. Now it's less than 100%. Some might argue that it's 100% and zero simultaneously, given the uncertainty of their guilt. Sort of like Schr?dinger's cat. Don't fret though, regardless of whether they're found guilty or innocent, as young offenders, they'll be back swarming soon enough.
Happens every time, I go out for a couple of hours and all hell breaks loose on one of my posts.
The title error was mine. I make no presumption of the guilt of the arrested parties, and thanks to Jerrold for changing it in my absence.
My presumption was merely that the immediate issue of these swarmings, which prompted the police warning, has been temporarily "resolved," or at least direct action has been taken.
The presumption of innocence is a legal presumption, i.e., something an accused is entitled to in court when being prosecuted for the alleged crimes. The insistence made here (and, frequently, in response to other media assessments of crime or arrests) that the media restrain itself from, as is done here, describing the arrests or, as is done elsewhere, assessing the evidence against the accused is, frankly, silly.
Diane,
Swarming took off in Halifax in about 2005. I'd never heard anything like it for years, then nearly everyone I spoke to had some incident to report. A horrible one just happened there the other day.
Ya in Ottawa I started hearing about them about 5 years ago I think. They happened in parks, but most often near big box strip malls at night.
It's crazy how often headlines in newspapers suggest guilt, especially on the more serious/violent crimes. Libel laws in Canada don't seem to get exercised very often in connection with headlines much, so the media doesn't seem to change.
These crimes were particularly violent. They were not swarmings where they took your iPod and ran - they were swarmings where they took your iPod, broke some bones and then ran.
Several people were hospitalized with serious injuries that require dedicated physio rehab.
I live in this neighborhood, and yes, I'm glad the people they arrested are off the streets. Want my wallet? Fine, you can have my wallet over my kids not having a father. But beating me down *after* i give you my wallet? F*ck you, go away for life.
Guilty or not aside, being "young offenders" tends to mean higher chance of letting them walk, which solves nothing. We wonder why kids do this when the risk is a lot lower then it should be.
I'm with you KL, the degree of unwarranted "parting gifts" style violence in these crimes was particularly disconcerting.
I hope they caught the right guys and I hope they go away for a long, long time.
I especially hope we never meet up.
Just me, or does the whole "young offenders act" seem a little bit messed up?
When you are doing something as deliberate as a swarm-attack, this is a planned thing, and something that kids SHOULD know better than doing.
Its one thing if its a stupid kid who swipes a CD from a store, or a school-yard fight - but its another thing when a kids who are in their late teens decide "Hey, its late night, we are bored, lack supervision - lets go out and gang up on people in a park", they deserve no protection that the young offenders act provides them.
I completely agree, tuggs. I hope the 17 year-olds at the very least are prosecuted as adults.
gangs used to "swarm" people in NYC back in the late '90s. are you all too young to remember that? scary
I agree with you, Tuggs, it would be pretty hard to argue the "they're just innocent children who didn't know any better" line, given the degree of premeditation (and repetition!) of these attacks.
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