Sports & Play
Is Real Grass Coming to BMO Field?
City council will vote this week on a proposal by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (MLSE) to replace the much maligned Field Turf at BMO field, with natural grass. If you ask any of my fellow Toronto FC fans, getting the green stuff at BMO is a good thing. The players hate the turf. In fact, the only way we could get Spanish heavyweights Real Madrid here in the summer was to install a $250k temporary natural grass solution.
Field Turf gets blamed for everything from nagging injuries and missed goal opportunities to the price of beer at BMO, so it's no surprise that while TFC's playoff hopes fade for this year, MLSE is pushing hard to install a natural grass surface to make the players happy and maybe even to quiet the rising, very vocal disappointment of TFC's most loyal supporters.
Ryan Keay, president of TFC supporter group U-Sector says "there are a few problems with the Field Turf. Firstly, a lot of players prefer grass, and TFC has missed out on players because of the field. In addition, it leads to inconsistent play, because the ball just doesn't react to the turf like it would with grass. Bringing in real grass means that we can compete for players on a level playing field with other teams in MLS."
But this is about more than whether or not TFC will find itself battling for first place instead of a last playoff spot next year. In order to fulfill the community-use mandate agreed upon with the city when the stadium was first built, MLSE has to foot the bill to move the winter dome from BMO to nearby Lamport Stadium, turning it into a year-round facility in addition to building a new soccer field in South Etobicoke.
This new combination of facilities means community use for the fields in question will increase from 4800 to 7700 hours per year. The downside is that the new soccer field is outside of the area where athletics facilities are the most scarce, in the downtown core. The upside is that Lamport will be receiving some 1.2 million in desperately needed renovations to it's crumbling architecture.
Miller opponents are quick to bash his support of this project partly probably because when it comes to TFC, he's a fan before he's the Mayor. You can easily find him on any given game day, overpriced beer in hand, hurling invectives at the pitch. However, it's really hard to ignore that despite the reduced community use at BMO itself, this project really is win-win. The city doesn't have to pay a dime on an already quite profitable investment, community hours have increased, and the fans can look forward to seeing top-flight players and teams, once hesitant to play in our home by the lake.
In the meantime, with renovations to BMO hopefully beginning in the winter months, TFC supporters will have to brace themselves for a long off-season of waiting, and dreaming of the sweet smell of grass come April.
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the field turf is worn out after 2.5 seasons, even though the company says it's supposed to last 7-8. Also, there are some studies in the US that suggest the mix of rubber and other product in field turf fields are actually bad for the health of players, especially in the heat of summer.
As long as MLSE is paying for the whole conversion, as they are, and the community use is replicated and expanded, as it will be, then this is a great move.
I don't really think it's a massive difference in winter to have games moved to Lamport. Lamport is closer to where people live. So instead of trekking down to the wasteland of the Ex in the winter, people can more easily go to Lamport and play there.
I play Ultimate Frisbee at BMO, and I can vouch for the fact that the stadium is well used by the citizens of Toronto. There are sports played night after night there, throughout the fall and the winter (it is used all year round).
In terms of other options for indoor fields, there really aren't that many. There is the hangar at downsview (quite a hike on the TTC), varsity stadium, at occasionally the turf field at UCC. Otherwise, there aren't very many options in Toronto to play sports indoors, and even fewer that are easy to get to on the TTC.
MORE community use would result, not less.
Downsview has great facilities but it's pretty damn difficult to get to unless you have a car (easily 30-40 mins on the subway from downtown, then a 20 mins bus ride, then at least a 20-30 min walk).
Fair enough if you do use the field but I don't see why your frisbee game should be held in a dome inside a stadium that holds 20,000 which was built with the intention of being the national soccer stadium. The fact that many players on our national team have refused to play on the shoddy surface is a bit emabarassing.
And correct me if I'm wrong but outside of a Genesis concert last year and Bill Clinton's speaking engagement, there haven't really been any other public events held at BMO Field.
Keep in mind that TFC is owned by MLSE, and they're a private organization. They sell tickets, overpriced beer, merch, etc, and make a killing already on the backs of the people of Toronto. Why should our tax dollars go towards supporting what is already a highly profitable enterprise. Perhaps is MLSE wanted the stadium to be professional use only they should have ponied up the money upfront to buy the stadium and outfit it with grass in the first place.
Ultimate being ultimate, we will find places to play whether in the snow or not. The travesty here is the fact that Torontonians are losing access to a great resource, after paying for the lion's share of it. It's as if a large park in the downtown core is building a ten foot high wrought iron fence around it.
From wikipedia: With the total costs in the realm of $62 million ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium. The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium.
The city's contribution to the original play was basically limited to the transfer of the land (and what else were they going to do with it???). Although MLSE/TFC benefited from the deal, the real reason the stadium was built was the serve the Canadian Soccer Association and for use at the 2007 FIFA u-20s. Since the surface has been pretty much destroyed in less than half the time it was supposed to last (largely based on the year round community use that you are lamenting the possible loss of) it's been rendered almost useless for that. Players won't play on it. Whether they are overreacting (and they very well might be) doesn't matter. The bottom line is the same.
So, Toronto lost out on the chance to host national team games (only four -- two men's and two women's -- in three years) and it struggles to attract bigger name club teams (without a massive financial incentive). Canada is planning on bidding to host the 2015 Women's World Cup and, as it stands now, Toronto would be unlikely to host the final. That would be a shame for the thousands of young girls that play the sport in this city (who would miss out on a once in a lifetime chance to be inspired by truly spectacular athletic role models) as well as for the loss of economic benefit that such an event would bring to the city.
Making Toronto a liveable and vibrant city requires a balancing of priorities. You are right to imply that it would be a shame for us to forget about community access to recreation facilities. That's why it's insane for the city to turn down a chance to add a facility at no cost. I'm sorry, but the added benefit of having more fields available, especially in the winter, more than makes up for the extra 10 minutes it's going to take the Annex-set to get to their Ultimate Frisbee game. It's not like Islington is in Alberta.
As such it is ideal for community recreation (weekend warriors aren't as likely to push themselves as hard as a pro athlete, and are therefore less likely to have a stress injury. So the moderate increase in those types of problems is more than made up for by the fact that there are less injuries of a more serious nature).
The issue here, is that if you say something, i.e. this will be a community use facility, and obtain a serious amount of taxpayer funding so that it can be shared, that it should remain like that, not just for the 2 years or whatever that BMO has been open for.
It's amazing how fast these things are forgotten when your lame-duck mayor is a TFC fan.
http://24thminutesupporters.blogspot.com/
Because he likes playing frisbee there.
If the city wants to want a soccer team to be in the playoffs (by attracting better players) they need to put grass in at BMO field
As for these arguments, well Paul is correct that it is unfortunate that the community will lose access to BMO after playing the lions share to build the stadium under the conception that it was a mixed use facility for TFC and the community. In a sense MLSE is getting almost exclusive use of BMO on the cheap. In addition, Duane, your stereotyping of Ultimate players as the "annex set" (which is untrue as people from all across Toronto are involved in the sport) is unfair and unnecessary. Also, accusing ultimate players of disagreeing with the BMO move solely for convenience sake is disingenuous, as the city PAID for this stadium for that very purpose.
Nevertheless, if MLSE's plans are as listed in the 24th supporters blog then I think Paul is thinking a bit backwards. If MLSE is committed to improving Lamport Stadium and bringing in field turf to Lakeshore collegiate (a 20 minute bus ride from Kipling station), then the community is still being served by a winter dome and a Toronto highschool is gaining a top of the line turf. Sure, its unfair that we won't get the access to BMO but this replacement alternative will give back even more to the city. As long as MLSE does not fix Lamport on the cheap and then leave the rest for the city to fix then I am on board with this proposal.
On a side note... TFC!!!
To reduce public access by 85-95% would be a pretty serious blow. I don't feel the sacrifice is justified by another field that takes 1+ hr. to reach from downtown.
Put REAL turf at BMO, care for it over the winter with the bubble on and let's move on....
Turn it into a park exclusively for the community, let the "beautiful game" and all the cowardly little girls that can't play on anything but grass go somewhere else.
No big loss, Toronto will survive.
Would MLSE be getting a deal if this passes considering the public financing used to build the stadium? Sure but according to the proposal they are still resposible for a portion of the maintainence costs for the new facilities moving forward. While I recognize that their motives are purely in their own interests I think the proposal is a fair compromise. I have yet to see a compelling argument here to why this shouldn't go through. Bitching about travelling an additional 5 minutes to your frisbee game in january doesn't cut it.
Yippeeeeeee for dog parks!
BMO is already a community space. No need to be bicker over grass or no grass. Let's be happy we have a stadium at all!
TFC!
Lamport is also nice, as is the south etobicoke site. For the 2 mil or whatever the city could easily make these upgrades themselves and keep BMO as a community site too. Based on the population explosion with all the new condos downtown I'm sure there is enough demand. Keep an eye on who benefits. In this case, it's MLSE getting exclusive use of a 60 mil facility for 13 mil.
I would only like to say that there are valid concerns here. The city is a big place. Ensuring there is bookable, accessible park space for all is no easy task. That's why MLSE has to pony up MORE and why the vote may still be no.
Shouldn't we all agree then, that the decision is:
Is the extra that MSLE puts in outside the core compensate enough to put out the residents of the core?
Paul's point about MLSE getting exclusive use of BMO is very relevant, I think. Council should take that into account. What is Toronto's ROI (city's take on TFC games plus proposed improvements over taxpayers original costs? (also: keep in mind that property taxes only put in $10m of the $60)) on BMO? We're not going to figure that out in a comment box, but maybe MLSE shouldn't get $72m BMO field for 13m construction + 1.2m renos at lamport.
And leave Bremner out of it. Living in CityPlace, I paid for that. And I really doubt my low-floor neighbours on that side of Spadina are going to tolerate domes for winter use. :)
From TFA:
BMO Field, home of Major League Soccer's Toronto FC and Canada's National Soccer teams, realized an operating profit of $900,000 during eight months of operations in 2007, resulting in the City of Toronto and MLSE each earning $450,000 in accordance with the operating agreement. The operating results will also contribute to a further investment of $300,000 on various projects to enhance BMO Field and the overall fan experience.
I imagine that a percentage of that revenue came in the form of field rentals, which will now be close to 0. This means that the total figure of $450,000 could be much lower than that.
This puts the payback in terms of ticket sales for the public part of the stadium at something like 130 years. ($52 mil paid back at $400,000 per year)
Again I refer to the proposal where it states they are also partially responsible for the ongoing maintenance cost of the new facilities. So your numbers are a bit off there.
Someone with a brain realized they could make money by providing the excuse of a soccer game for these retards, and presto, you have TFC.
Nothing like giving people what they want. A chance to get plastared and throw toilet paper onto the field and batteries into the stands. All for just 50 bucks. What a great addition to Toronto. What a joke.
At least at baseball or football or hockey or basketball or basicaly ANY OTHER PRO SPORT EVENT, you can actually enjoy the game without having to deal with these cowardly little bitches chucking flares.
MLSE’s proposal looks pretty close to fair, with maybe a little bit of hard ball to be played by the city. The city did front part of the cost from the initial construction, but they continue to derive revenue from the events that are at the facility making this a money maker.
With grass there are going to be more events, which in turn is going to give the city more revenue. Community use is staying the same (but shifting locations). While it does suck to lose **partial** use of the facility close to downtown there are other locations around that can subsequently pick up the slack. Nobody will have to cry about ultimate Frisbee being cancelled.
Judging by your comment about how dangerous it is to attend TFC games at BMO (trust me, I get stabbed almost every game, it's getting to be excessive), only goes to show me that you have never set foot in the stadium during a match, but rather hate all things soccer. Well allow me, if I may, to interject your moronic post;
What happened last year at the rogers centre? Are you having problems remembering why alcohol is no longer allowed to be sold in the 500 levels on Toonie Tuesdays? Well allow me to remind you! There were several dozen arrests and ejections from a game (that I had attended) in a section that was only 3 or 4 sections away from mine. Young drunken morons began to fight with each other, and eventually with the police. There had been several other incidents earlier in the season with fights in the stands which led to the all-out ban of alcohol in the 500's for Toonie Tuesdays.
There are also regularly fights at the ACC for Leafs games, and Argo games as well. Drinking is not unique to TFC games, especially when the amount of incidents that have happened at TFC games compared to other sporting events is much lower.
As for the argument that the city is losing community usage at BMO, well the majority of the usage is being transferred to Lamport when they get the bubble over the field. Don't try and tell me that you were able to rent BMO on a regular basis anytime after Oct. 31st, seeing as the TFC season goes that late. Your Ultimate Hardcore Non-Contact Frisbee League can continue to operate on the other side of the train tracks just as it has before, alongside the Full Contact Pussy Sport of Sawker. I know it won't be as cool to tweet your friends about how cool you are for playing in our National Soccer Stadium, but it's not about that, right?
You just have the tax payers in mind. THAT'S why your argument makes so much sense with me. My mistake.
After re-opening this page in Firefox (fucking IE!), everything is lining up correctly. I see that BadBhoy gets it, and super does not. The rest of my argument still stands!
Super, you are clearly versed in the nuances of hyperbole.
They fooled ME!!!! :o
Just for futures, don't diss another fans sport, cause it'll inevitably come back to kick you back. Thanks.
I sincerely hope that those who will be losing BMO for community use have their concerns addressed but this was still the right decision. Can't wait to smell the grass from the stands next season!
Just watch now, Rogers centre is gonna wanna jump on the bandwagon. And why not?! If it'll help get a decent crowd out there..
I hope they move the turf at BMO over in addition to the bubble (you think BMO is worn out, go checkout Lamport).
I keep repeating to myself: I will not get involved in flamewars on blogto, I will not get involved in flamewars on blogto ...
"Furthermore, at a minimum, MLSE is guaranteeing that MLSE will pay the City an amount of
$50,000 annually (escalated by CPI annually) to a Lamport Capital Reserve Fund to be set up by
the City for replacement of the bubble and field turf at Lamport."
You mistake what I said. I'm not labelling the people who disagree with me as trolls. I'm labelling the people saying things like "go play your frisbee in the park" or "soccer fans are a bunch of drunken yahoos" as trolls.
I'm happy for the TFC fans. You have your grass. Toronto has a world class soccer stadium and all that.
But is it selfish to lament the fact that community organizations are being kicked out of a stadium that was supposed to be shared (granted yes, I play one hour there once a week)? or is it selfish to kick a bunch of community sports organizations out so TFC players can run on grass?
So i can only imagine that you simply prefer one location over the other despite a more than reasonable compromise. That is selfish. And stomping your feet and whining "but they said we could use bmo field!" is just childish.