Toronto Police and Chilean Soccer Players Brawl

I was rooting for Argentina, but was absolutely incensed by the poor - or should I say, remarkably atrocioius - officiating during the match.  The German ref should lose his job - not just suffer some kind of penalty - for that kind of performance, and if FIFA was smart, they'd ban him from officiating in any FIFA-sanctioned event, ever.  I mean, we all can get mad at refs, but he not only lost control of the match, but he took out his own frustrations (he clearly knew he made some mistakes but instead of taking them in stride, he decided to become more anal) on players, which is the worst thing a referee can ever do.

While I don't condone the behavior by the Chilean players, I can completely understand it.  And in fact, even though I was rooting for Argentina and think they deserve to win the match, I really do hope FIFA considers listening to an appeal from Chile: the officiating turned what could have been the most exciting match of this tournament into one large joke.

I'm sad that the tensions poured out after the match and the police had to get involved, and I agree that the Chilean players need to be held accountable for their actions after the match, but if there's anyone that needs to bear the brunt of the consequences, it's the German ref...if he actually knew how to do his job, none of this would have happened, even if Chile had eventually lost.

(Of course, FIFA won't be looking too favorably on Toronto after this whole incident, which is sad, because people were starting to look at TO as a great soccer haven in North America: after all, we just scored the MLS All-Star game in 2008, right?  And we were one of the top contenders for the Women's World Cup as well.  Looks like we might as well kiss that hope goodbye.) 

Yes, the ref was incompetent, and the players most certainly have a right to be royally pissed off.  But taking it off the field is unacceptable, regardless of how poor the officiating was and how angered the players were.

I anticipate a long investigation that will likely exonerate the police and lay blame on the players for the violent clashes after the game.

Yes, one would hope Toronto police are exonerated and Chilean players blamed for the violence. That way Toronto would look better. But truth is, this is the same Toronto Police I've seen myself chest-bumping a 50 something year old woman holding a protest sign in front of the American embassy.

Abusive behaviour and a petty display of whatever little power they have is vintage behaviour of the Toronto Police. They might as well walk around with a "Hello, my name is: I have a big penis" sticky on their chest, so they can finally understand that their job is to enforce the law -- and not go around trying to prove they are the law themselves.

And next week The Toronto Tasers host the Chilean Under 20 Nationals in a duel to death, sponsored by Shang Tsung and Motaro. Catch all the action LIVE on BlogTO.com!

I am a Chilean and the one thing that impressed me the most was the similarities between the behavior of TO Police yesterday and my memories of the police of Pinochet.

The Police where at the stadium in force and they can say anything that cross they imagination but I cannot believe that a small bunch of soccer players worn out after a very stressful game has the nerve to began a fist fight with a phallanx of huge (and armed) police officers. So, if there was a fight, where are the "wounded" police officers?, and, do you see the players from the team? they weight the half of every officer there.

I hope this dont cause any more troubles to the players and expect that our goverment or the soccer federation place a law suit against the officers that clearly enjoy themselves attacking kids and worst of all athletes compiting in a world tournament, Canada is the host and must respond to this very clear case of racism.

Marcelo:  Racism?  On what grounds can you make such an accusation?

I do agree. Ref Stark was a disaster, leading Chilean players to the anger. FIFA, as always, will punish Chilean players but Stark will continue working. About Toronto police.......nothing to say....cowards do not deserve my comments.

Canada had proven to be one of the worse hosts anyone could possibly have had.  POlice officers were at their most power trip and had no right to do what they've done.  Everyone is quick to judge the chilean soccer team because of their frustrations in the field...but have any of you seen chileans coverage of the brawl?  THe chilean midea was at the scene and all you see is the injustice toward the team.  What is so wrong about a couple of players gettin off the bus to sign autographs? if anything, that is somehting that not all players do, in any team.  I personally met most players during the United states vs Chile game in New York, the day before the chilean team left to Canada.  They were very kind and cared alot about their fans.  Making efforts to reach out to their fans, they actually stepped unto the seating area to sign autographs.

The police should be held at full blame. Canada has always been said to be the neutral country, never getting into any problems.  Yet yesterday they proved to be corrupted and disorganized...DAMN CANADIANS....Your government SUCKS!

Unfortunately, neither the Canadian nor Chilean media has any video of what actualy happened, just the aftermath. Hopefuly some fan with a cell phone managed to tape what happened. But, from all accounts the Chilean players were trying to go after the refs on the field after the game (not necessarily with violence in mind) and tempers were high. With angry fans outside, and the players trying to interact with them, the police likely had no idea what to expect. Canada isn't typically home to football riots, which can be very ugly. So this is likely why they used such harsh measures, not excusing it in any way. They had no idea what to expect. Likely there was some cause for their actions. If police behaviour in the entertainment distrcit is any indication, there must have been some serious need for force with the Chilean players. On a typical night in the entertainment district, police have to deal with thousands of drunken idiots and show remarkable restraint in these situations, focusing on breaking up and holding back fights rather than engaing themselves. I find it hard to believe that given the high publicity of the FIFA u-20's and how much Toronto wants to paint itself as a soccer city that the police would just randomly beat up players without due cause. Even then, none of the players were even hospitalized.?

 This situation meke me wonder if the canadian PD has done the same with a US, German or British Team?

 Besides, I have been in Canada and the most wonderful time traveling through Montreal, Quebec (The Nouvelle France Festival), Toronto and Niagara on the Falls, the only low point was when the canadian airport police harassed me in a very unsufisticated way (to put gently) in front of my family, they didnt know that I can speak english and hear all they racist remarks about the south americans, I didnt make an scene because I was with my family in a foreign country and dont want to spoil their vacations, but the bitter feeling is still there, and I had no troubles at all to believe the declarations of the members of the national soccer team of Chile.

im wondering if there are real videos of this incident , if you have links showing the brawl which i was told it went a lot more violent than the tv station videos are showing please post them. I think the Chilean team should do something in the next match perhaps a moral protest in the field leaving the match would  certainly caught the eyes of the world for sure then Canada would be forced to  take the matter  a lot  more seriously  by the pressure a pacifist reaction like this would create exposing them in a  much biger scale to deal with this situation

I think everyone who is saying that the police are Racist needs to STFU. You really should visit Toronto before you say something like that. I have no idea how your going to be racist towards people from Chile (considering no one else in this tournment has mentioned anything about it). There are such a myriad of different people it would be impossible to single them out. 

Patrick: the security at airports is private security not the police (unless your talking customs which are also not police).

All the respect I had for Chile and its people went out the door after last night's debacle.  Those soccer players were supposed to be ambassadors for their country, especially while on the biggest international stage in their lives.  Yet they acted like a bunch of hooligans.  First against the Argentinians, than against the foreign officiating crew and finally against Canadian law enforcement.  There was no integrity, no civility and no excuse for their actions.  They should be ashamed of themselves, but instead they want to blame everyone else for their own stupidity.  Meanwhile, the coaching staff failed to instill any discipline in their players.  You can only come back from a 1-0 deficit by scoring goals, not getting fouls. Instead of making excuses, the coach should have built a disciplined, respectful team and they might have won the game - or lose with diginity.  But the worst has got to be the Chilean politicians, spurred on by their media, who are now filing formal complaint against the police.  What values are you looking to instill in the youth with such actions, condoning the senseless actions of the players (remember, they fought with the opposing team, than the refs and than the authorities - they constantly sought one fight after another - they definitely were not looking to avoid a fight as these politicians, with their blinders on, would like everyone to believe).  The politicians should have put their foot down, had the boys apologize for their actions and show respect for the fans, the host city, the police, FIFA and the game of soccer.  But you need to have integrity and class to do something like that, and these purported ambassadors of Chile (players, coaches and politicians) are sorely lacking in that area.  I look forward to the return of the days of great soccer, reminiscent of when I can see taped footage of matches from 20 plus years ago - when soccer players were men of honor, who would battle back from adversity, not with their fists or profanity, but with skill, determination and heart.  For the sake of soccer, we need to find that greatness again, and it will most certainly not arise with the hooligans of Chile.   

The Chilean players had no right to go after the referrees. The players of a soccer team are in a position to incite massive riots by the fans and so the Toronto police were right to quickly control the situation. The Chilean players are very immature and have been misbehaving throughout the entire tournament, let this be a lesson for them. I would also blame the management and coach for not controlling their players.

If you've been to Toronto, you know how diverse the city is. This isn't the southern US. Racism is not at play here. Especially not against Chilean players. The police were cracking down on what appeared to be a growing riot. Did they overreact? Possibly. But I'm sure that the images of football/soccer riots that we've seen in other countries were on their minds. That's not acceptable here.

Police in toronto are from different backgroungs. this is not a racist matter its a matter of abusive force and now they are trying to cover up their asses. who wouldnt? if Chile play the right cards they can get a chance to maximize the events forcing the police to come clean as an international matter. personally i would love to see the chilean team taking some kind of pacifist reaction on the match that would set things straight
the police clearly need to be reprimended for their actions. its funny how they are trying to get away from this, the fifa official and the chilean consul who went to take the kids out of detention had an encounter with them. police asked before releasing them to the federation if the consul could promiss for the behavior of the team would not be violent .... to which the consul replies.. can the police promiss they would never take again such actions of abussive and exessive force to any unarmed team members of a delegated nation representing a country in a sports tournament?.. that was the end of it... cops are retarded. minuts before, the fifa official who was seeking their release was asked for the names of the team players.. he stop them and ask for the list of the police officers envoled in the brawl.. that was that too.

Marcelo likes to dream up worlds where there are beautiful football games and at the end everyone goes home for completos y pisco.  Unfortuantely, this is not one of those fantasy worlds.

It's proven that soccer games get out of hand wayyyyy too often and TPS made sure that this did not happen here.

It's not a matter of size or strength.  When people are amped on emotion they do stupid things (like disobey an armed officer).   If you are (temporarily) that stupid then you might find the ugly end of a tazer.

Racism, lol, are you defending OJ?!  Give me a break.  TO is one of the more diverse cities in the world and while not impossible it's unlikely.  It's easy to cry racism when you come from a city like Santiago where 98% of the people are Chilean (I and a few other gringos and asians make up the other 2% currently). 

The security Guards at that event clearly need some badly need it training

Like they say here they acted like 5$ an hour untrained guards

This whole incident is sad, but not particularly surprising.  Soccer is renowned for its hooliganism, so it is not surprising that the police were ready for violence and stepped in quickly to stop it.  In fact, they most likely stopped what could have become an even more violent and destructive (perhaps even murderous) rampage by stepping in early and arresting the perpetrators.  As I read the calls of "racism" and "police violence" coming from some parties, it strikes me as being a complaint from people trying to cover up the embarassment of their team and their countrymen who simply could not handle a difficult situatoin with maturity.  It is a GAME, people, and no matter even if the official kicked the ball in the net himself and called it a goal, you still should not physically attack him for it.

As a Canadian, I can assure you, this will be heavily investigated and I'm sure it's all on video. Video shows a security guard blocking a camera and trying to move someone (looking like a prick).  Another scene is of Police Officers taking a report... I see nothing substantial.

As someone said, would love to see a video of what happened... these videos don't show anything. I'm sure there will be videos that FIFA and Police will have access to.

What I do have to say is that the police are the authority here. You don't throw stuff , break wind shields of buses or start/participate in fights here. The police will bust your ass, that's why we pay them.

is it really that big a deal, is this going to cause rival soccer teams who battle it out in toronto and then thoughout canada? - you have two teams that take this game very seriously - you have horrible officiating - you have police involved, it's not a common occurance. 

nothing good could come from this, that's obvious.  it's not going to be happening again anytime soon. 

Racism?  There was no racism.  There was stupidity by the Chilean Soccer Team.   They physically confronted the ref during and after the game and probably kept it up behind the scene which required police attention.   What did the players expect from the ref?  You confront him during the match and expect better calls?  I can clearly remember when another team was getting unfair calls (2002 Canadian Women's Olympic Squad) and they played through it and won.  The actions from the Chile players was stupid and the Argentina team clearly demonstrated that soccer player are the biggest divers around.  The game needs more refs and these fakers need to be red carded.  On that note its time to send the Chilean team home and not allow them to play the consolation game.

Isn't this the same Chilean side involved in the embarrassment with Portugal?  I don't think it is a coincidence that "bad things" happen to them.  Portugal clearly over-reacted to the dive, but it was really pathetic:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO8-Ip_1xQE

There was no racism

There was no fault at the expense of the Toronto Police

Chile had issues with the referee and took it out on everyone else

Chile's government decides to play the blame game

End of story 

Unless you were there, you know nothing of what happened between the cops and the players, you can't make any allegations of racism or abuse(nor can you dispute them), so best to shhhhhhhh

The Chileans should be ashamed of themselves for reacting the way they did, but I have to say, i agree with Sameer.  I was pissed off just watching the game.

The Argentinians should be ashamed of themselves for once again lowering the the beautiful game into an Oscar worthy farce.  They are very good football players, and don't need to dive.

FIFA should be ashamed of itself for allowing such an obviously inept official ruin a semi-final match.  The official should be ashamed of himself for not correcting himself throughout the game, and allowing his own hubris to affect the game.

Diving is a South American "style" (So its defenders say), one that I find disgusting, but it will persist until FIFA actually SERIOUSLY decides to crack down on it.  Personally, I would've suspended about 15 players last night, from both teams.

The Chileans shouldn't have been THAT upset though, since they dove their way into the semi anyways.  Karma's a bitch, and all that... 

People that say the Chileans were overly violent during the game are only part right; they've played that way throughout the tournament.  They've not been sanctioned like this before.  So, how are they supposed to play the semi-final, when they've been fine for 5 games previous?  But perhaps the Police were out more in force for this game due to A)The expected heated rivalry between to South American teams and B) The fact that The last game Chile played ther was also a lot of violent nonsense? 

Alright, anyone treating or talking bad about Chile is absolutley ridiculous..... all they did was want to go say hi to fans and the stupid canadian officers didnt let them through and they ended up fighting.... and they had a whole reasont to be mad because of the terrible job the referee did.... Argentina would have probably won anways but... maybe with a different score, if the ref had been fair.... this is horrible just look at the way they treat the players...  Us chilean people are good hearted and very respectful... so many times ive heard how wonderful canada must be, and i was agree.... but with all this i dont think theyll ever be saying that again.. im amashed of Canada and Fifa...Chile deserves better

The Chilean team was angry long before the game ended and the police had already had to intervene on the field when they tried to confront the game officials.  Soccer is known worldwide for its hooliganism and I commend the Toronto Police for stepping in quickly to put a lid on it.  If the Chilean's had done what was asked of them, then nobody would have been hurt.  They are guests in this country, ambassadors for their own and they failed miserably. 

Chileans are obviously a passionate people - so much so that they'll vehemently claim the innocence of their 'kids' (odd, I was not a kid when I was 18/19/20, and I wasn't even a semi-professional athlete) despite the fact that nobody really knows what happened. Despite the fact that the Chilean players claim to have been brutally beaten, though they have nary a mark on them the next day (and yes, yes I did see the video of the player showing the red mark on his shoulder and the, what appears to be a zit on his lip - I've inflicted worse injuries when shaving).

Look, these Chilean 'kids' were very angry, they felt that they had been wronged and at that point of their lives, it must seem like this game was their world. They were extremely aggressive towards the refs - one player had to be pushed away several times before being restrained. Is it SO HARD to beleive that they were still angry when they left the stadium? Is it SO HARD to accept that they hadn't vented their frustration. Is it SO HARD to beleive that they directed their aggression to another authority figure?

Not that I know what happened, but I do live in Toronto, I have never had anythig but good experiences with the police, and I think it's rediculous to claim that they, that Canadians as a group, that Canada as a country, are racist of all things. Especially in Toronto, the most multicultural city in the world!

An I think that the Chileans want someone/everyone to blame.

John: loose respect for Chile and it's people? Come on, you think ALL chilean people are like that? I'm not accusing anybody of racism. But to speak for a whole country? Isn't that a little bit too much?

If you knew of our violent history and how people here were repressed, murdered and tortured, and you said that you loose respect for this country because there's a 40% of people who still support what happened, I would agree with you, even though I'm chilean, because even I can't understand that there's people who agree with infringement of human rights in any way, but not over a damn sport riot.

Another question, where you there? Or did you just saw what happened over what the media showed (chose to show) you? Do you REALLY know what happened?

Whatever happened, I don't condone it, either chilean players or Toronto Police. I think they both acted wrong. Normally one wrong act will lead to another on the other side. But your judgement John, just serves to tell how narrow minded you are, and also probably, how misinformed.  

can anyone post links of the real videos somewhere? . the blame game will set itself for the facts of those testimonies. there are several eye witnesses who said things scaleted quicky and police was involved in violent events. the news are making mayor headlines all over the world, Canadian reputation is down the toilet, and its all unfortunate.. the Chilean government said they will pursue criminal actions against the police force involved in the riot with the best lawyers in toronto if Canada explanation goes on the rouge road. Canada's mare is backing up the cops. prime minister harper was in Chile 2 days ago and talked about the Chilean players when asked about the U-20 in Toronto as remarkable young men. today his comments were about the emotional side of soccer and would not reffer to the brawl itself. and i still cant see any effing videos capturing the whole picture of what really went on.

 

Perspective from someone who was not there, or did not speak to anyone who was there.  

Firstly, I would assume that most if not all the Police were likely at the end of there shifts or on overtime, the last thing they would want is to have the game go longer or have a brawl break out. I'm sure they would much rather be at home with there families than babysitting a bunch of "whiny" players...(yes thats right I called a soccer player whiny) ***I hope someone can correct my spelling of "Whiny"*** :)

 Secondly, if the team had been from England, Germany, Italy, or anywhere else for that matter the Police would have reacted the same way, so there is no racism involved here. To say anything else is just ....foolish.

It seems to me that alot of people are looking to divert the blame from there "beloved team and not look at the evidence....for example...how come the bus has broken windows????  Why did the Police have to escort the ref off the field??? Where should the blame lie there? hmmm?

Last thought.... the Chilean players have been characterized as "divers" and "complainers"...perhaps these skills have some use off the field as well...especially when the press shows up to ask about their role in the brawl????

Maria-Jose99 has it right... Chile does deserve better, perhaps it is too much to ask a group of 18-20 year old boys to act like men. I am sorry that a great event such event is marred by such an ugly event. 

cellphone video conndeming police actions.   

http://www.thestar.com/default  

this is not clear enough..  

John, you are an IDIOT. Clearly, you have not been paying close attention to any of the Chilean games, throughout this tournament. You are a MORON when saying "The Chileans shouldn't have been THAT upset though, since they dove their way into the semi anyways.  Karma's a bitch, ..." Chilean team members played beautifully. They trained hard to get to the semi finals. And, as to the Toronto police THEY SHOULD GO AND REINSTATE WHAT THE LAWS IN CANADA ARE. Clearly, they have no idea.

Can't we have a civilized exchange of ideas without resorting to calling each other idiots? Clearly, John has overly generalized Chilean play, and Kathy has clearly has her Chilean rose coloured glasses on.  I would not describe Chilean play as beautiful...but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 One question Kathy, what the heck do you mean by "they should go and reinstate what the laws in Canada are"  The Police do not make the laws, they enforce them. Please elaborate. 

Can't we have a civilized exchange of ideas without resorting to calling each other idiots? Clearly, John has overly generalized Chilean play, and Kathy has clearly has her Chilean rose coloured glasses on.  I would not describe Chilean play as beautiful...but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 One question Kathy, what the heck do you mean by "they should go and reinstate what the laws in Canada are"  The Police do not make the laws, they enforce them. Please elaborate. 

Check this link out:

http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/toronto/archive/2007/07/20/eyewitness-account-of-upset-between-chilean-u20-team-and-police.aspx

This is an eye witness account of what happened.

I don't justify what the players did on the field, but two wrongs don't make a a right, especially by "Toronto's Finest"   

is good to know the Chileans will persue legal action against the police with the top lawyers in town..a government can afford  that  as all of this vanishes into the wind..    not long ago i remember in the news when the cops use force against some poor women protestors in howard st.  they complaint about exessive force but because they were poor ,  a formal investigation would  never reach the light of   day. they wont be able  to cover their asses and  get away so easily with it for this one

Video brawl July 19, 2007, in Toronto.

Courtesy of Gary Pieters, eye witness 

http://video.canada.com/VideoContent.aspx?25710&fl=&popup=1 

Problem with that video is that it doesn't really show much, let alone how it started.  But his commentary is not very complimentary toward the Chilean players.  It would seem they were looking for a fight and picked one with the only  guys around that had sticks, pepper spray and a taser. 

 Just a thought, if they were abused by the cops with sticks, and tasers, how come no one ended up in the hospital.  Doesn't seem like anyone was beaten.

what everyone in Chile says is that the players were to share some time with the chilean fans, they approached them for autographs and that kind of stuff and the police came over them in an unjustified violence rage, the players were brutally punched, they used electric shocks on them and there's video taped evidence that they were even hitting one player who was previosly injured in the arm, not one cop but five against one, toronto police seems totally insane, brutal and even racist, there should be a internal investigation on them...

let me add to the hospital question seb....

If the chilean players caused such a riot on their own, and were "at complete fault", like the canadian police claims...why weren't they arrested? why were they hand cuffed and let go?  if you have someone committing such an infraction of the law...you would assume arrest and federal or local prosecution...how come such thing did not happen here? BECAUSE THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CRIME COMMITTED ON BEHALF OF THE CHILEAN TEAM...

another point i would like to add..

Why is it that the canadian government is now saying that there was a chilean player having a confrontation with an argentina player, but yet the argentinians are denying such confrontations? Once again...BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SUCH CONFRONTATION...Canada is just trying their hardest to lay blame on the chilean team...Im glad the chilean government is filling legal actions twd the TO police. no such thing would have happened in the United states....Unlike someone earlier had mention. 

 All you canadians claim no racism in part of the TO people or what not...but yet here's a link showing you how during the canada vs chile game Canadians were telling chilean fans to go mow their grass...if thats not racism...then what can you call it?

Please canadians have nothing on one..As an AMerican i stand by chile 150%!!!!

let me add to the hospital question seb....

If the chilean players caused such a riot on their own, and were "at complete fault", like the canadian police claims...why weren't they arrested? why were they hand cuffed and let go?  if you have someone committing such an infraction of the law...you would assume arrest and federal or local prosecution...how come such thing did not happen here? BECAUSE THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CRIME COMMITTED ON BEHALF OF THE CHILEAN TEAM...

another point i would like to add..

Why is it that the canadian government is now saying that there was a chilean player having a confrontation with an argentina player, but yet the argentinians are denying such confrontations? Once again...BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SUCH CONFRONTATION...Canada is just trying their hardest to lay blame on the chilean team...Im glad the chilean government is filling legal actions twd the TO police. no such thing would have happened in the United states....Unlike someone earlier had mention. 

 All you canadians claim no racism in part of the TO people or what not...but yet here's a link showing you how during the canada vs chile game Canadians were telling chilean fans to go mow their grass...if thats not racism...then what can you call it?

Please canadians have nothing on one..As an AMerican i stand by chile 150%!!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ucpJnygx8vY

why is this a racist issue????  Where is the proof that this was racially motivated?  I am so sick of hearing about every time someone is picked on by the Police, its because the Police are racist. Everytime some throws out the race card for something stupid like this it demeans the memory of people like Rosa Parks or the Japanese Canadians who were interned during WW2 who ACTUALLY faced racism. Please stop throwing out the race card and look at this issue for what it is, a series of bad decisions by a bunch of different people. As I mentioned above, if these players were English or Italian or German the Police would have reacted exactly the same way. So please please stop saying this was a racial bias issue.

 And, Kino I dont now where your from but this is not brutal...why dont you go to Darfur or Afganastan or Iraq and see what people do to other people there and then come back and tell me that this was brutal. No went to the hospital, no one died, no one suffered grevious bodily harm, I haven't even seen footage of any blood, so why is it brutal?

Kino, Of course people in Chile are saying that, they can't come to terms with the fact that their team put in a sub par performance and did not have the character to overcome a one goal deficit and a questionable referee. They fell apart and gave up.

And then they got in a fight with Police, trashed their bus, got tasered and got arrested. The players embarrassed themselves on the field and off.  They should be apologizing to their fans back home and the fans of soccer everywhere. Time will tell if they have the character off the field they did not show on the field.

Just another thought about Soccer players, isn't this the sport where if someone trips them they fall down like they have been shot. Roll around on the ground in apparent life ending agony, only to pop up with a smile once the ref shows the red card to the offending player?  Perhaps this very same tactic is being played out off the field?

Just food for thought.....feedback please 

jjriel: Darfur and Iraq do not face brutality...they face dehuminizing conditions absolute hell...brutality was seen in TO.  Syaing these country face brutality is cutting them short of their suffering and pain.

 Players didn't crash their windows for the hell of it....TO police were throwing gas bombs into the bus to imobolize them...inorder to escape such gases they were trying to break windows. 

What the hell is wrong with you people...get your facts straight before you decide to take a side and yap your mouths away about something. 

 "isn't this the sport where if someone trips them they fall down like they have been shot. Roll around on the ground in apparent life ending agony, only to pop up with a smile once the ref shows the red card to the offending player?  Perhaps this very same tactic is being played out off the field?"

Are you kidding me....did u watch the game? WHo got ALL the red cards? WHo got most penalties? CHILE...

Canada should never be allowed to host any sports event...this incident proves to the people they are incapable of handling situations in the correct manner. ...

The referee was absolutely terrible.  I can understand the Chilean players' frustration.

But the way they acted out their frustration was pathetic and not worthy of sportsmen.  Anyone who has played ice hockey knows that there is a constant game of trying to upset your opponent, and the opponent who loses his temper and acts out is the one who is an idiot and gets a penalty.

If the Chilean players cannot control their tempers they should not have been representing their country.  Period.   I mean, putting your hand on the referee?  Pouring out of the bus to take on the police?  I had lost all the respect I had for the Chilean team when I saw how they reacted to the adversity of the terrible refereeing. 

Hearing about their behaviour after the game just makes it worse.  If you are a sportsman, you need to be able to not get into fights.

Natalia, just to clarify your last point.  In Canada there is a provision that allows the Police to arrest for "Breaching the Peace" which allows the Police to detain someone long enough for the "Breach" to subside. I think it would have been very easy to arrest and charge all the players.  I suspect that it might even look better in the press to lay charges on these kids, but the Police opted to let them go, with a caution. The difference between the Toronto Police and say oh the LAPD (notorious nay infamous organization?) how might they have reacted???? I think I'd take the Toronto Police over the LAPD when it comes to race relations.

And to clarify your last point, the word here in T.O. is that the incident was sparked when a fan and a player got into a fight.  A fight between a Chilean player and an Argentinian FAN.  The teams would not be allowed anywhere near each other after a match like this.

 And, if you would be so kind to explain to me how many "Canadian" fans would be able to get a ticket to a match between Chile and Argentina?  I thought Canada was eliminated in the first round anyway.

 And could someone explain to me how telling someone to go mow their grass is racist????  Am I living under a rock?

There will be a full and proper investigation into this affair.  As soon as the police are done investigating themselves they will, as usual, find that everything they did was proper.  They did nothing wrong.   

 Funny when the police invetigate themselves it turns out they they did no wrong.  They are batting 1000 in Canada so far. 

  Even when people die here and the police explaination involves a contortion that even the most double jointed entertainer would be proud of it appears that THEY DO NO WRONG..

 Natalia,

 The Oxford Dictionary describes Brutal as

 • adjective 1 savagely violent. 2 without any attempt to disguise unpleasantness.

Having spoken to my friends who have been to Afganastan, I would say this fits the conditions over there. I do not believe that "savagely violent" describes the situation here in Toronto. However unpleasant the situation has become, embarrassing to many,  no one was "brutalized".

 As for the gas bombs....I think you might be watching a bit too much TV.  Police here have pepper spray but no "gas bombs"...I will double check for you if you like. Before someone embarrasses themselves without all the facts.

And, no natalia I did not watch the game, nor was I there, nor did I speak with anyone who was there.  I only see whats reported on the news and what I read.  I was just generalizing about the game of soccer....I suspect that many people will agree that "diving" and faking injuries are part of the game of Soccer.  I mearly suggested that there might be some "gamesmanship" going on here for the benifit of the media.

One question that was raised in several interviews, was "where was the adult supervision of these kids".  Apparently there were no Officials from FIFA or from the Chilean delegation around when this happened. I would suggest that if FIFA or the Chilean managers were around this ugly event would never occurred.  Oh well....lets all just blame the Police anyway.

Jeffery...if you tell a jew he's cheap ur being racist and discriminating...if you call a black person a nigger ur racist...if u call white people hicks...ur also racis....if u tella spanish person to mow ur lawn..guess wut...ur being dicriminating and stereotipical

who said anything about canadians at the chile vs argentina game...link was of chile vs canada game...im guessing you havent seen it...hmmm

my point was that someone earlier had said canadians are in no way racist. NOW, watch the video and tell me what was said to a hispanic??

And to answer your questions...i would take the LAPD...atleast i know THEY are doign their jobs

So basically you are telling me...the TO police could have arrested and detained the chilean players...but obted to be nice people and not do so? But now they are getting criticized for their violence...yeah right! 

Lay charges and do the right thing(get praised by the press) or be a good guy and let them go(facing possible blame for their actions)?? Hmmmmm sounds like a hard decision...Give me a break...

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the mowing the lawn thing. I just had never heard that before.  I never said there were no racist in Canada, I am sure there are just as many here as there are in the United States.  We don't really keep track of that kind of thing in the census up here. ;)

 As for the link about the game between Canada and Chile, no I did not see it.....I don't really like Soccer that much I'm more of a Hockey/Football guy. I do not dispute that there are racist everywhere.  I am disputing that this was a racially motivated incident.  It is too complicated of an issue to simply slap a "racist" sticker on it.  There are lots of people to blame and its not all one sided blame.  Its too bad that this incident will follow all of those players where ever they play. 

The Police here will not ever face a sanction for the actions at the game....no matter who sues, or complains, or whatever. Thats a fact and several people have eluded to that above. So, they could have charged or not charged the players and the consequences would be the same for them. They opted to let them go with a caution and thats their discretion. Would it have looked better from a public relations angle to charge them....yes.  However, I think they realized that no benifit would come from that as these kids are not from Canada and will not likely ever come back to Canada. So whats the point of a Criminal record in a country you don't live in. 

 And, as for your "gas bomb" theory.....i made a call or two.  Front line Police in Toronto carry an airbourne aerosol pepper spray, that is applied from the hand...not thrown.  The only Officers that have tear gas, are the tactical unit...and it is fired from a shotgun kinda thing and would clear out the entire building if it was used.  I did not read about anything like that so I am assuming that was not used.  However, the papers talk about pepper spray being used.....which would mean that the players would have to be off the bus or the Police went on the bus..... which kinda shoots down your whole smashing the windows to escape the gas theory.

I don't know about the LAPD personally, just what I read and see on the news..... so I will take your word for it.

The 19 and 20 year old Chilean players aren't children as their press might try to pass them off as. They acted as children. They started the mess with the police knowing full well the reaction they would provoke. It's really hard to admire someone for stirring the pot when all they do is whine after they get the reaction they were looking for. If you can't handle the result don't be the cause. As soon as the comparison attempt between the police action and Pinochet's rule is thrown in you start to see third world political propaganda in action. All we can hope for is that the intelligence of the Chilean people will see through their media facade.

police did in fact arrest the chilean team they just used a different word "detention" after realizing they were in hot water with all the press attention and furthermore with the direct intervetion of the diplomatic authorities from Chile. Some videos even show the handcuffin. and the reason why they were let go so quickly was because ot the direct intervention of that consul, who had a laugh with the smartass police remarks trying to put the blame on that team. Toronto's finest has no idea about international diplomacy agreements and regulations and yes, that is asking to much for any police force anywhere so, they even took a shot at it with that consul as a typical routine practice. look its simple everyone tries to cover their butt only this time it will blow because a foreing government will take the nesesary steps with the Canadian domestic laws to pursue criminal justice.

I agree and disagreee with you SEB, there was definitely alot of political pushing and pulling. I am sure cell phones were ringing all over the place in Ottawa and Santigo.  The Police are the tool of the politicians and they were told to release the players I am sure.  The Consul from Chile got his way, most likey because he was there in person watching the game.  Where I disagree is that this will never amount to anything here in Toronto.  No Policemen will lose there jobs, no Politician will not get re-elected, the Canadian Government will say all the right things to make the Chileans happy, I'm sure there will be some symbolic ass kissing gesture and that will be that.  Done

Its not even the top story on the Toronto news websites anymore.

Some English boy wizards book comes out today,  two people were killed by a train and the Blue Jays lost to Seattle...thats the lead stories now

yep..thats life jeffery

The Chilean soccer players (and the fans egging them on) should remember that soccer brawls and riots are not a part of our culture, and aren't about to be anytime soon. It's simply not done. Get over it, for you own sake, or go to Chile to cheer on your team, where that kind of behaviour is acceptable.

 I would like to congratulate the Toronto Police for dealing adequately with what could have been a very violent situation. 

These Chilean soccer players acted like sore losers on the field during the game, and were obviously still furious by the time they left the stadium. We all see what happens during these games in South America, Europe and Asia, when the players incite their fans to indulge in all kinds of impulsive, moronic behaviour and people end up dying, all for a game.

If any of you want to live in a place where idiotic international athletes are allowed to create havoc, then move to Santiago or Buenos Aires. But don't take it out on T.O. cops. As for the racism charges against the police, get real and educate yourself. Most of the T.O. force is non-white. Coming from a relatively white, homogeneous nation like Chile (compared to other South American countries), that criticism is hilarious.

This game Chile Vs Argentina, was suppose to be the best game ever in this tournament.     We wanted to see a good game not matter whom the winner will be.  But all this was destroyed by a referee who was an incompetent or was done on purpose, myself  I think was done on purpose.      Argentina,can not be proud to win a game this way,but they are,they have excellent players and not need for faking fouls.   The first red card  should have been for both players (started by the argentinian player )  or a yellow card.   Whom do I blame,the FIFA for bring in this referee,      About the Police,they over reacted and  hopefully an investigation will  help to clear up things.

This game Chile Vs Argentina, was suppose to be the best game ever in this tournament.     We wanted to see a good game not matter whom the winner will be.  But all this was destroyed by a referee who was an incompetent or was done on purpose, myself  I think was done on purpose.      Argentina,can not be proud to win a game this way,but they are,they have excellent players and not need for faking fouls.   The first red card  should have been for both players (started by the argentinian player )  or a yellow card.   Whom do I blame,the FIFA for bring in this referee,      About the Police,they over reacted and  hopefully an investigation will  help to clear up things.

I honestly don't get so worked up about these kinds of things, but I'm finding I'm taking offense because the Chileans (all Chileans) are critisizing Canada and our law enforcement when the issue is so obviously one sided. It's very Canadian to say, when something bad happens, that everyone shares a bit of the blame, but in this case, the fault rests clearly and exclusively with the Chilean soccer team. Nobody can really decipher based on first hand accounts because, presumably, the Toronto police will say the Chileans are to blame, and the Chileans will say the police are to blame. But, what is indisputable is the fact that:

1) the Chilean soccer team had just finished a controversial game and, because of it, were angry, aggressive and violent. RIGHT? They claim that they were attacked by the TO police, but how likely is that? How likely is it that the Chilean soccer team, fresh from having to be physicaly restrained from attacking the referee, completely changed their mood and became innocent polite kids blinsided by police (who were, for the some reason, in an uncontrollable rage themselves)? GIve me a BREAK!

2) the Chilean soccer team are composed of 18/19/20 year old men. That age group, of any culture, lack the maturity or level headedness of an adult, while at the same time being physicaly adult. Further to that, these are high skill soccer players in a soccer crazy contry. There is no doubt in my mind that they are coddled and cattered to, which in turn, as we all know, breeds entitlement. This is not a Chilean thing,  but I'm saying that if you treat kids like stars, it warps their sense of place.

3) the Chilean soccer team claim to have been 'brutally' beaten, and yet they don't seem to have many (any?) scars or injuries to back these claims up. The player who now infamously claims to have been 'electrocuted' and then woke up to '10 police officers' beating  him and pouring 'acid' on his face is quite obviously either lying or exagerating because if what he said was true, he wouldn't be able to say it. He wouldn't be able to walk, he would be in hospital, and he would have clear marks and scars ad injuries. I mean, come on!

4) the driver of the independent bus, who was a Canadian but  who is impartial as you can be in this situation, said that the behaviour of the Chilean team was the worst he'd seen in 17 years on the job.

I mean, I understand that Chile is upset at having lost, but the facts are the facts... you have a bunch of young men who are quite obvioulsy immature (as displayed by their reaction on the pitch), who are claiming to have been beaten by police, but who have nothing to substantiate their claims. I can understand the soccer players saying this -in their minds, there was nothing more important that this game. What I can't understand is how the Chilean government, and the Chilean people, and some of the people who are posting on this board, can logically (and vehemently) take the side of the Chilean soccer team. It's absurd and it shows a lack of intelligence that I think gives Chile a black eye, moreso than Canada or Toronto. And yes, I am saying that anybody who supports the Chilean soccer team in this matter is stupid.

And a couple of random thoughts:

How rediculous is it for Chileans to claim  that Argentina dove at every opportunity - as though it's unusual in soccer or that the Chileans don't do it. Every contry has players that dive - they have to, it wins games.

How is mowing grass racist? Are Chileans known to mow grass? Do they hate being known as grass mowers? I have to have that one cleared up for me? Or is it just that it's painting an entire culture with the same brush? Like, if you were to say that Canadians are just a bunch of 't-shirt wearers', would that be racist? 

Very nicely put Pat,

 as a Canadian I would like to be known as a "t-shirt wearing, cottage going, beer drinking, hockey fan" and for whats its worth I worked landscaping all summer one year to put myself thru school. I cut grass everyday that summer, I also cut grass at least once a week still.

I had a Peruvian friend describe to me "South American" style of football, she said its full of "diving" and "theatrics" (her words). So, the Chilean team got through to this game using this style without facing another team using the same style. The Argentinians are just better at it then the Chileans, the young men from Chile got upset and lost their cool.  They got behind a goal and fell apart.  A true champion overcomes adversity, they don't bitch and complain about it.

I think it is becoming more and more evident that the Chilean U-20 team screwed up and gave the tournament, their country, the sport and themselves a black eye. What makes it worse is trying to blame the Police and label them racists lacks class and character.

A true champion displayes grace and class in victory as well as in defeat.  They take the blame when they lose and accept praise with humility in victory. The Chileans are not champions, just sore losers.

Most I've talked too really think that the Chilean team were responsable for everything and the reaction from the Chilean Government is way overblown. Personally, I think FIFA should disqualify the Chileans and not let them play the Consolation game. Maybe that would teach them how to behave at an International Tournament.

Just a random thought, last season me and a buddy were messing around after a beer league hockey game and we started a wee fight.  We were just horsing around but he accidently punched me in the eye, not very hard mind you, but it was a stiff shot.  By the time I got to the room it had already started to swell and by the time I left the bar and got home it was starting to turn blue, and the next morning it looked terrible.

So, using that as an example, if I was beaten by 10 angry cops, I would likely be near death in hospital.  Or at least have a few marks on my body, boken bones, internal bleeding, concussion some sort of hard evidence.  I doubt I would be able to play a game of soccer a few days later thats for sure....but all of the Chilean players will play that next game (if they are allowed).  So, in my humble opinion the players were not beaten by Police, although they deserved to be.

 The only footage I have seen of injuries are a few scrapes and a fat lip. There was no blood, no reports of broken bones, no CAT scans at the hospital, or internal bleeding....nothing.... a few cuts and scrapes..... you all can make up your own minds

I find unbelievable that some people from Chile are making analogies between Pinochet's regimen and Canada.

The "kids" from the Chilean team were frustrated, went after the referee, got in a fight with an Argentinian fan and to be restrained. We are supposed to believe that what followed next was only the result of a player trying to give autographs? Because of their bad behavior as sore losers, they were told to get in the bus and stay there. Somebody decided to be macho and show the police that he would do otherwise and got in trouble. What the other players do? Get off the bus to confront the police and threw things at them.

Chile has a significant history of violence during soccer games to the point that decent people were stopping to attend the games (see BBC site http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_football/3583913.stm).

Other teams have lost in important competitions and the referees had made mistakes. This is no reason to behave  like that. The U20 Chilean team should be banned from international competitions and their federation fined.

Just another note: Take a look at the pictures and interviews in one of their own newspapers (if you can read spanish) - http://www.lun.com/

The pictures show the players surrounding the referees and yelling at him. One of the players got in trouble according to himself because he raised his hand and an officer held his arm. He says: "I swear I just insulted him, but I was not going to hit him". Yeah, right.

He then tried to break free and was controlled by the police. There is also a video showing the referees leaving under police protection and Chilean fans throwing bottles at them. 

Despite all this, they say the police was heavy-handed. The players were behaving badly already before the brawl started. They should be sent home and another team chosen to play for the third place.  

Fact:  FIFA has had some well officiated games during this U-20 tournament, minus a handful of games that were evidently biased and very poorly officiated.

Fact: The chilean/argentina semi-final was one of these poorly officiated and biased games.  I don't think any honorable person will dispute this...

Fact: The argentinian futbol team was putting on quite the act and embelshing every challenge, knowing the officiating was biased towards their cinema.

Fact:  The chilean delegation played with heart, courage and determination.. but while trying to overcome these challanges in their path, these young men lost their composure.  They should have turned their backs, sucked it in and continued on with an entire nation rallying behind them.  Immaturity and frustration did this team in.

 Fact:  The chilean delegation were boarding the bus.  As has been the case in each city they've played in, some players went to acknowledge their fans.

I find it hard to believe that as the police claim, that there was a single rival fan in the midst of hundreds of chileans, to which this player went to confront - - with a fence in between them - - which required the police to use such drastic force.. I would like to know who the interpretor was that translated the exchanges between persons who didn't speak english, to which they came to their determination.

Fact:  As we've recently seen, politicians and our police forces are not the most honest of people, and are in some cases more corrupt than what you'd expect from a hardened criminal.  You'll have to excuse me if I don't jump at the first explanation/excuse they provide.. which is contrary to eye witness accounts.

 Fact:  Argentina is a skilled team, that put 3 balls into the net to Chilé's zero.. with each displaying varying degrees of outstanding play by the club.

Argentina will represent South America as this years U-20 champion..

Fact: If any of the Chieans had any mark on their body, they would be sure to show it to jusy about any news/media organization.

As a chilean I'm going to stand behind the Toronto Police Departmen.Yes I mean it. Because there is no way that someone is going to make me stand enfront of such as narrow-minded and despecab kind of "barbarians".

"Barbarian" is a pejorative term for an uncivilized, uncultured person, either in a general reference to a member of a nation or ethnos perceived as having an inferior level of civilization, or in an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, insensitive person whose behaviour is unacceptable in the society of the speaker."

Patrick, just by chance.. do you happen to read more than one source of information before coming to your conclusions?

 I have seen multiple pictures from both North American and South American press, which should b picked up by the AP/CP as well, which showed these injuries.

 Perhaps they were self inflicted after the fact, and perhaps there were also WMD on the bus as well..

Time will tell.

 And it is interesting to see how the Chiléans (Latin America) are being portrayed as uncivilized barbarians.

Passionate..  Patriotic.. and Brave I think would sum up the "stereotype" somewhat a little more accurately.  And great soccer players too.  Plus they do make some pretty decent wine as well.. for poor uncivilized folk.

It is amazing how many people have NO IDEA of what happened and completely back one side or the other. Some even speak of Racisim, is it not if you yourselves back one side over the other without nowing the facts and just jumoping onto thier side.

Let's see we have ticked off young male soccer players, and Yes the Ref was bad, who just lost 3 to ZERO, embarassing ya think?, coming off the field. Then we have Police Officers standing by told to "Keep The Peace". Well do you think MAYBE, just Maybe the soccer players may have went off and THEN the Police stepped in. I think that is a logical look at what info is available.

Is it right on Soccer pl;ayers end, NO, are the Police at fault, I don't know, but we have systems in place to invetigate and get further into. But I am sooooo sick of people saying the poor Kids... They are 19 and 20 friken years old, they are men

Gerardo - I have been very disturbed by this story and I searched for all outlets that I could.

 Further, if there are pictures that I'm not seeing but that show the Chileans being beaten or showing the effects of having been beaten, please post a link. I would love nothing more than to see them. Even if the text isn't in English - I'd like to see the photos. What I have seen so far is this guy: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2007/07/21/4357534-sun.html

And if that's supposed to be an injury, well... my dog scratched me this morning and it looks far worse than that.

Lastly, I would like to ask a question of all the Chilean posters:

Why do you think the police are in the wrong? I posted why I think the Chileans are in the wrong - because they were in an aggrevated frame of mind, because they had just attempted to start something with the ref, because they don't have any marks to back their clams... so beyond what the Chilean soccer players' claims, why do you think they're right? Please tell me. 

The worst blind person,is the one who doesn't want to see.....It is incredible the prejudice of some people.     I thought  the majority of the readers for this paper,belong to a more intelectual or intelligents people,for sure I was mistaken.....

Thats it!!!!! A scrape on his shoulder?  I saw photos in the paper of another player with the marks taser, another guy had a cut on his lip......thats all I have seen. I have also seen the photos of a bus with all its windows smashed. 

 People, these kids were not brutally attacked. They are fakers, they showed it on the pitch and they showed it after the melee with the Police. Just a word of advise to the players, there is no referee with a red card in the real world, you are accountable for what you did.

They all should be suspended from international play. No thats not true....some reports describe some of the players and staff trying to act as peace makers....only 9 were arrested.  So only 9 should be suspended.

Manolo - just explain why you side with the Chileans... that's all. 

Nice little Chilean players angels or bad temper youth without manners; maybe well trained police forces and security guards or overexciting order keepers. Who knows. I'm not holding anybody back and as a Chilean I'm, I know Chileans in general "got mad" very often for stupid things. But one thing it is true and undeniable, and that is, the Toronto police overreacted, they say there was a fight (fight as a interchange of punches, kicks, etc), I'm not sure of that, what I'm pretty sure is this, there was somebody (Toronto police) kicking somebody else (Chilean players), and I'm sure that was like that, because you can see (in the news videos) the marks (bruises, skin burns, etc.) on the Chilean players, some of them were even knocked and nothing happened onto any Toronto police officer neither on the security guards, so we may say, it is was more like a hitting fest from the Toronto police officers and the security guards against the Chilean players rather than a "fair fight" between both sides.

Another fact is that the police didn't let the reporters make their job, some of them were put in a sort of jail (made of fences) and they confiscate some tapes, do the police and security guards have something to hide, why, it is not normal, isn't it.

What I know is that, in Chile and the UK at least (I'm sure in many other countries as well) if somebody fight, insult, spite, slap, etc. a police officer he will be reduce and arrested right away (without any doubt), and then there will be a criminal procedure. The question is, why nothing of that have happened in this case. Lets suppose there was one, two or nine bad temper Chilean players and they want to fight to anybody (including the 2mt high and armored police officers) and I have to say, that could happened, I wouldn't be surprised (we are Chileans), but, gives that the power to a well trained police officers and security guards to transform a police procedure in a big dog fight or as said before in a hitting fest, I don't think so, do you.

I've read something like "how is in your country and how is in my country" about the corruption, and the true is Canada is in 14th place in the "Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index 2006" list and not to far away Chile is the 20th place. You can confirm this in http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi so please don't be dump saying "they are like that, and we are not" and keep talking about the real issue.

I've heard the word Racism, and i feel pity for those who say it, without inform themselves and know the facts first; we shouldn't match every single bad situation we have in a different country with the term racism, that it isn't good, and that doesn't help to get over it, at all. I have lived in the UK for a year, and in that time, i have never felt one little single drop of racism, never, in fact I'd a sort of trouble with a English man, and I got the entire support of the English company I was working with, the English people and more than that the English police department. I'm not saying that nobody is a racist, I'm sure there are loads of them in everywhere (even in Chile we got them), but we can't blame a whole country for that, not at all. I'm pretty sure Canadians are quite nice people, because I've meet some of them, they are really good people, indeed, as Chileans are.

The whole situation is quite awkward anyway. But please don't jump into conclusions and please don't say "I trust 100% in those or thees guys (police officers or players)" we don't even know them.

Love Rodrigo M O

Natalia - either you are an absolute idiot, or you think the rest of the world are. I had to laugh out loud at your comment saying "what is wrong with a couple of Chilean players getting off the bus to sign autographs?"

 What, through the window? And I suppose they thought they'd be signing lots of autographs, which is why they ripped the seats out of the coach as well.

 What an arsehole you are, Natalia. The Chilean players tried to harass the referee (who probably deserved facing a few questions to be fair), the cops escorted the officials off the field, then some Argentinian shout abuse at the Chilean team, again the players are stopped from attacking the opposition fans so they take it out on the cops.

 I'm not a cop myself, but I can tell you this - if a coachload of people come charging at me intent on doing me harm and I'm armed, they're going down.

The rest of your posting is just a load of racist bollocks directed at the Canadian people. Perhaps FIFA should ban Chile from taking part in further events until they have demonstrated they have grown up and can accept defeat with good grace.

FiFA  is mainly responsible for the security of the participants of a world tournament and they cannot get away with their responsability as did Mr. Blatter.

Firstly, comunication is very important in the game field. It was a mistake having a non spanish speaking referee. The referee lost control because there was no communication with the players and when the mistakes this go on and on, caused the lost of control in the chilean players, which became violent. However looking at the videos there are many situations of diving  that should have been stopped from the beginning but not by yellow cards. Simply a warning.

 Second. About the police behaviour.  Argeninian players have been fair about what happen  because they saw all. Videos and eyewitness  show the cruelty of the Canadian police . Canadian officials lied because their version has been found absolutely false.

Third. This could happen to any of the thirld world countries in the future. So , is very important to keep this in mind: Canada is not safe anymore for delegations.

Finally,  anything that happened has nothing to do with canadian people just the police. I have been in Toronto years ago and have nothing to complain.

Oscar

Go to Google and type in "Toronto Police Brutality". You get 404,000 results! I was born in Canada and it has long been known that the Toronto police force has more than it's share of goons. The Chilean soccer team and the country of Chile deserve an apology. I am a regular visitor to Chile with many friends and relatives there and this is a huge story there. Unfortunately Chileans are not being told that the Toronto police did this to their soccer team but the CANADIAN police did this. In other words all of Canada and all Canadians are to blame. When I go to Chile I am always proud to say I am a Canadian. From now on I won't be so eager to say I am from Canada. Thank you very much Toronto police. You blew it. BIG TIME!!

After the game when the Chilean players where headed to the bus they wanted to approach their fans as they have done all tournament. The Toronto police and the security guards did not allow this and upon the players insistence the police reacted with brutality and used the taer gun on a player. This i when the rest of the team mates that were on the bus got off to try to help their team mates. Result was more brutality and use of excessive force where player were billy clubed, peppered spray and some were even kicked by 3 or 4 while on the floor. Even the Consul was treated disrectfully and the Chilean press was reduced to a corral for 2 hours so that they werenot able to cover the news nor film what was going on in a clea manifestation of censorship. In sum the events that happened that are not shown in the Canadian press are XENOPHOBIA, police BRUTALITY, and press CENSORSHIP. Those officers should be jailed. Very dissapointing, I thought Canadians were more civilized. 

Hey Larry - if Google his is supposed to be indicative of truth, type in 'Pigs Fly Toronto' into google, and you get 777,000 hits. So by your logic, not only to pigs fly in Toronto, but there's a greater chance for pigs flying in Toronto than there is of police brutality in Toronto.

Anf Franco -so now you're saying we suppress the press here? We're not only insanely violent, but also racist, xenohobes, and censors? Wow, decades of a contry displaying just the opposity ruined by what a few 19 and 20 year olds said in order to avoid getting in trouble! Incredible!

And for the last time, please PLEASE PLEASE can a Chilean PLEASE tell me where the marks are? Where are the injuries? Why, if the police were so brutal WHY ARE THERE NO MARKS! If the are marks POST A LINK TO A PHOTO! I mean, here you are critisizing Canada, because soccer players said that they were mistreated! No marks, no video, no photo, no nothing. Do the Chilean soccer players have super duper healing powers? In a few weeks are they going to DESCRIBE their various injuries? At that point, are you going to say SEE! SEE HOW THEY GOT INJURED? THAT SOCCER PLAYER JUST SAID THAT HE HAD HORRIBLE WELTS AND BRUISES THAT HAVE SINCE HEALED, OF COURSE. 

What I'm looking for is discourse, rather than a bunch of Chilean supporting posts saying nothing more that 'you are horrible for beating my little boys'. PLEASE ANSWER ME CHILE PEOPLE. 

"Hey Larry - if Google his is supposed to be indicative of truth, type in 'Pigs Fly Toronto' into google, and you get 777,000 hits. So by your logic, not only to pigs fly in Toronto, but there's a greater chance for pigs flying in Toronto than there is of police brutality in Toronto."

 lol

Canada welcomes people from all nations every day. If you plan on making Canada your destination of choice no matter if it be for competative sport or leisure, then you should abide by our laws and act appropriately. Just because you act in a certain mannor which does not constitute a breach of the peace in your home country, does not mean you can come to Canada and commit a breach of the peace and be free from legal consequences. Committing such an act is an offence in this country!! I am not a police officer and I do not have any family serving as such, but I am a native Canadian. I do understand my culture and the fact that if I where to commit a breach of the peace or act in a disorderly manor in any way or form, I know that I may be arrested by police in order for them to restore order and prevent any roitous behavior. I say thank you Toronto Police. I am sure that post investigation results will prove that the Toronto Police had acted within the execution of there duties and that the incident was dealt with integrity and professionalism . come on people, these soccer games are always an issue every year in every country. It could have been alot worse. As for those who blame the police. take a look at yourselves and take blame for your own actions. At least this will set the example that our laws will be enforced no matter where you come from or whoever may break them. A big thanks to Toronto Police

Hey Jerrold thanks for your educated comment man. Yeah, really enlightening! Oh and I'm glad I was able to provide a service and give you a laugh. Funny though I wonder why no one else is laughing.

I thought the German referee did his best to keep the game under control. It's unfortunate that both teams provided the referee with so many opportunities to flash his cards. I blame the players. Both teams have a terrible history of bad behavior during matches. The whole region does, Uruguay included. As far as the brawl goes, when you're told to stay on the bus so that the police can maintain order in the aftermath of a overly-emotional Latin American soccer match; STAY ON THE BUS! Intentionally mess with the police and they will mess with you; and have the right to do so! The Chileans only embarrassed themselves and their country. They made poor choices. 

Hey Larry - it was actually me who made the comment originally, but no offense was intended. I just meant to highlight the fact that you can't say that Toronto police have a history of brutality just because inputting  "Toronto Police Brutality" in Google yields hundreds of thousands of hits. Many much more rediculous things yield hundreds of thousands of hits as well (ie. Pigs Flying Toronto). That's all.

To amend my above post I should have said Hey PAT thanks for your educated comment  man. Yeah, really enlightening! Oh and Jerrold I'm glad I was able to provide a service and give you a laugh. Funny though I wonder why no one else (except maybe Pat) is laughing. Oh and Pat I don't know what media you have been looking at but the wounds from the tasers were shown on several newscasts.  Oh and finally just because I am a Canadian doesn't mean I have to accept and excuse everything that happens in Canada. That's the beauty of this country. Unlike a lot of places in the world we are allowed to question and criticise what "the authorities" do. It doesn't make me any less of a Canadian. And jeronimi, if there is an investigation of the police (and that's a big if)  of course they will be found blameless. Why? Because as has happened in so many other cases guess who will be conducting the investigation. You got it -THE POLICE! That's right the usual procedure in these type of cases is the police investigate themselves. Don't believe me? Do some research. Anyway it's all a real mess and a bloody shame. This tournament for the most part was great  and all the players on all the teams are great people, wonderful representatives of their countries.

Larry - of course there are taser marks - nobody is disputing that a Chilean soccer player was tasered. The dispute comes in this 'savage beating' that none of the Chileans seemed to have physically suffered from. THEY MUST BE SUPER HEALERS!

And then the big question is: who was at fault? And nobody can come to a difinitive conclusion because the Chilean soccer players are saying that it was the cops, while the cops are saying it was the Chileans. So it's word against word, but I would argue that, given the frame of mind the Chileans were in (having to be phisically restrained from the ref), and the fact that their credibility is undermined from their claims of a savage beating yet lack of physcal evidence to back them up, the cops are FAR MORE LIKELY to be correct here. Again, if there is more evidence of a savage beating, please post a link. It would seem unlikely that soccer players who were savagely beaten by cops would be able to play world class soccer a couple of days later. 8 of 11 starters played, with the other 3 suspended. Weird huh?

The only thing backing up the Chilean soccer team is the Chilean soccer team's word, and it's becoming increasingly obvious that these kids were angry, let their anger get out of control, did some stupid things and were halted by the cops. They then made the claim that the cops attacked them to not look like morons... simple as that. 

Lastly, I'd love to know why you would say 'thanks for the educated remarks'? You said that evidence of Toronto police brutality was that you got a lot of hits when you entered it into a search engine, I countered your claim by saying that one could get a lot of hits for the most inane entry - I think my point was proven was it not? I think that you should have been enlightened that your 'evidence' is extremly easily refuatable. Or do you still think that the fact that you got hundreds of thousands of google returns makes the Toronto police force more guilty? More likely to have been brutal in the past? Because if you do believe that, then you have to believe that anything that yields a high number of Google hits is ligitimized.

Just to be a jerk - 'Smart Chilean' in Google returned 489,000 hits, while 'Stupid Chilean" returned 1,810,000 hits. Hmmm.  

Hi Pat. Thanks for calling yourself a jerk. It saved me the trouble. You can call Chileans stupid if you want but if you really want to know what they are like why don't you scrape up a few bucks and actually go to Chile. Air Canada flies Toronto-Santiago non-stop every day. I guarantee you will meet some of the kindest, most hospitable people on earth. I am a Canadian born and raised but I believe that Canadians could learn a lot about how to treat other people from what you call or at least infer are "stupid Chileans". And you know what, if it is really true that "Stupid Chileans" returned more hits than "Smart Chileans" then that just proves my point. People in general (at least those that post on the internet) are prejudiced or don't like Chileans. I don't understand why I guess it's just ignorance and people not looking beyond their own little world. Like I said, and I mean this quite seriously, go to Chile for a holiday. You will be welcomed with open arms.

Larry - you are completely missing my point. It is:

You can not determine the legitimacy of anything by the number of Google hits it returns. By using Smart and Stupid Chileans, I was proving that point. You can not determine if Chileans are Smart or Stupid based on Google hits (which I assume you agree with), just like you can determine whether Toronto Police are known for Brutality based on Google hits (as you had claimed, and which I hope you now agree with). Do you see what I was trying to do there?

I have no doubt at all that Chileans are kind and nice people, but truth be told, I don't know anything about them. I haven't claimed that I do.  All I'm saying, all I've tried to say all along, is that in the case of who was wrong in Chilean Soccer Players vs Toronto Police, there is far more to support the Toronto Police than the Chilean Soccer Players. And if there is something beyond Chilean Soccer Players saying they were mistreated, I more than welcome hearing about it. 

What I should clarify is that I don't think that Canadians are particularely defensive of the Toronto Police Force, but they (we) are defensive when visitors to our country claim that we operate under a brutal police regime, are racist, xenophobic, etc - when it is completely untrue. If there's a self-depricating contry willing to admit and examine its faults, it's Canada. But we're not willing to have others critisize us unjustly. Especially with such eroneous, obviously self-serving, claims.

So please, show me, or tell me, something to back the Chilean Soccer Team's claims. Please. 

I saw many photos, videos and eyewitness reports that support the Chilean Team version. But i'm still seeking any photo, video or eyewitness report of the Argentine fan,  that support the Toronto Police version. Why? He exist?.     

And, if the second version is true, why an Argentine fan is near of the Chilean Team bus or players while the Chilean team fans are in the fence?. That is a huge security error.

Rick - A lack of a photo actually suport the Toronto police - they're not going to photograph someone who hasn't been beaten right? Or, if looking for a video to support the Toronto police, check out the bronze medal game. The one where the Chilean soccer team is running around winning the bronze. THAT GAME SUPPORTS THE TORONTO POLICE'S CLAIM THAT THEY DID NOT BRUTALLY SAVAGE THE TEAM!

So if you've seen 'many photos' to 'support the Chilean Team version' please post a link. PLEASE POST A LINK!

I haven't seen a single photo or video that shows the use of excessive force used by anyone.  Please post links.

Kathy, it was I that denigrated the Chileans play throughout the tournament.   Believe, me, I think they were brilliant at times, but they did their share of diving.  One incident comes to mind, vs Canada, where the player was taken of the field on the stretcher, and as soon as he was taken off the field, popped up, jumped up and down, and waited to be allowed back on the pitch.

So, the Chilean team has NOTHING to complain about with Argentinas play in the semi.  The got beat by their own style of play, and when they got frustrated, they got more violent.  I still think Argentina has nothing to be proud about either.

Who should complain is the entire soccer world, and get this stupid type of playing drummed out of the game.  Of course, then you wouldn't see very many South American teams doing very well, and FIFA can't have that, can they? ;) 

Also, please note that most of these people supporting the Chileans are actually posting FROM Chile.  They couldn't be more far removed from whats going on.  Don't hold it against them, they;re just mad and supporting their guys.

I was at the semi's between Chile and Argentina.

I was also at the 3rd place match and the finals yesterday (Sunday).

The Chilean squad plays with an attitude of 17-18 year olds. I remember being hotheaded playing for my university squad. Taking passion to a level I have never seen. I have played in games where the referee has completely removed all hope from my team, and I have voiced my frustration.

The Chilean squad was upset. They deserved to be upset, but not with anyone but FIFA for assigning such a horrible ref to such a key game. 

I'm sure emotions were high. This tournament has always been touted as the tournament where stars are born. These players saw that game as the referee throwing them an unfair twist of fate... and I express my sympathy towards them.

So, at 5pm, the Monday after the tournament has ended, let's look at the facts (so we can disregard a good 70% of the posts above).
  1) The initial dispute was between a Chilean player and an Argentinian fan who somehow evaded security.
  2) When Toronto police immediately stepped in, it appears the Chilean player fueled with anger from the game became angry with the police officer for restricting him.
  3) Other players on the bus see their teammate in a confrontation with police and immediately assume the police are out of line and begin skirmishing with police.
  4) Police use force (albeit appropriate) to detain all individuals involved to allow the situation to deescalate.

 Now, read the facts carefully. Based on the situation, I would say the Chilean players should consider themselves lucky and fortunate they only had to deal with the Toronto police. Many other city police services in North America would have treated the players much worse. You do not attack a police officer in ANY country unless you want to expect the worse.

I think above all the people who should be the most ashamed are the Chilean government for writing a formal complaint to the Canadian goverment about the situation... meer hours after it occured. Immediately blaming local authorities when there was no blame to be laid. I fear to think how Chilean police would have contained the situation.

Next I think the 9 players who were detained should also be ashamed of themselves. You were here in Canada representing your country at an international event. You were an ambassador of your country. I hope FIFA is swift and firm in punishing those players.

Finally, I would like to make note that there were many players on the Chilean team who Chileans should be proud of. There are reports that many players on the team restrained other angry players. These players were the true ambassadors!

After reading so much uneducated comments from several people who clearly did not attend the game or saw the altrecation that took place, I feel I should leave my comments here.

First and Foremost for those of you who actually saw the game , you clearly know that the game itself was a dissapointment. In my history of watching soccer games and belive me ive seen my share.. I have never seen such biased referreing in any game.

with regards to the altrecation that took place after, my comment is this:

  I was at the fence with my parents cheering and video taping this. you can clearly see the aggression being used by the police.  One player was even pepper sprayed in his face... another player was electrecuted twice and fainted ...one officer unloaded pepper spray in the bus and then locked it from outside and you could see that the players were clearly not able to breathe and desperately trying to open the door and windows. No one told me this nor did i read this in any article.  I SAW THIS WITH MY OWN EYES .

 I have made a copy of our video and was handed over to TV Chile as proof of the unessessary agression that took place.  I am very saddened about what happened but while many of you may not know.. it had nothing to do with a rival player or fans, as Argetinian players and  fans had left the stadium a long time ago. 

 I have lived in Canada my whole life and consider myself a proud Canadian.. but  I must say that I am  very dissapointed at the unnesessary agression that the police used against the players.  One other very important factor is the language barrier.  Many of the Chilean soccer players did not understand the English language and Most if not all the officers there did not understand Spanish as they repeatedly asked what the fans were chanting. It would have been totally different had they had someone with the chilean team to translate.

My final word is this : If you did not attend the game or you did not see the altrecation with your own eyes, you cannot make assumptions of what took place. 

I

Great comment Josselyn.

So, It looks like the final truth was that the police used excessive force, perhaps fair to deal with terrorists or criminals but not to deal with soccer  players. Unfortunately the journalists´s work was censored. That is the only reason why there are no more videos.

This is not the first time of a partial referee during games between Chile and Argentina. It is a long story. However no matter what,  this does not justify the bad temper of the players in the field.

Oscar

Josselyn and Oscar,

I have faith in the Toronto police and the truth of the masses - if what Jocelyn said happened was, in fact, what was true, we all (via CBC, CTV, Global, Toronto Star, etc etc etc) would know about it. There is absolutely no doubt that there is NOT a massive cover up by all Canadian media outlets. Oscar, did you just say that the journalists were censored? You do know you're talking about Canada. That just does not happen in Canada! We love to critisize the police/the government/the wealthy/anyone with power and authority whenever possible. And the aforementioned media outlets would love to find the condescending voice, the video proof, the eyewitness accounts, and yet none have! And the Chileans (govt/media/people/soccer players) are DYING to vilify the Canadian police, but the video you made, that you handed over, they what? Decided not to release it? Why not?

Also, Josselyn, I'm going to assume you didn't make a copy of your video so you could post it online? Naw, naw, of course you didn't. So all you really have is all the Chilean supporters ever have... the reason of 'because I said so'.

So again, for the umpteenth time, please provide a link or a video of whatever proof, no matter how minute, you have that the Toronto Police used excessive force. Because the longer it gets, the closer it gets to you guys saying that the soccer players' wounds healed. A claim you'll get to eventually, I have no doubt.

Lastly, I have to say that it's rediculous to classify posts that support the TO Police and casts doubt on the claims made by the Chile soccer players as 'uneducated'. As far as I know, it's educated to deduce, and seeing as THERE IS NO ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE  to support either claim, we ave only deduction. And the educated deduction says that the Police are right and the Chilean soccer team are not.

Please don't respond with: 'I said so', 'they said so', 'I saw', I saw'. Please give me a reason to believe that the Chilean soccer team is right. 

Oh, and a last final: this has nothing to do with the soccer game, except for the fact that the soccer game was what put the Chilean soccer team in an angry and aggressive state. So in mentioning the soccer game and how poorly officiated it was, you're actually making an excuse as to why the Chilean soccer team would be angry outside the stadium, and thus would be more likely to get in a scrap.

Any yes, it was a horribly officiated game, but it's a symptom of soccer now. 

Pat

Let's wait for a proper investigation to find what really happened. Maybe all were wrong; the referee, the chilean team and the police.

By the way: I don't think CBC, CTV, Global, or Toronto Star care about third world players , they have more important issues to deal with.

Oscar

If someone wants to talk about censorship you should contact "CNN en español"  (I think he is Colombian) journalist who reported the events that night. In his first live dispatch he clearly described how a chilean player that was walking by the bus - in his words - got shocked with electricity and when he wanted to take pictures the guards and police forbid him to do it and he went on pointing out that a policeman threatened him to withold his press credentials. 

Hey Rope... I'm a little bored with this whole subject so I won't go on and on about it (agree with Oscar that we shall just have to wait and see),  but I will say that in Canada, journalists enjoy a freedom of expression that is stunted only by corporate interest, rather than the government - corrupt and power hungry cops sell stories, and Canadian media outlets would love to report on it.

Also, Rope, the 'electrocuted' Chilean soccer player was forbidden from taking pictures on the night, but why not the next day? This is the same guy who said he woke up to 10 cops beating him and acid being poured on his face? Google  'Police Beating' and look at the images that come up - anyone who claims that that soccer player was beaten is either lying, or doesn't know the definition of 'beating'.

Sorry my english is rusty.  What I meant by "hes was forbidden to take pictures" was in reference to the  journalist.  If you want evidence take a look at www.elcorreo.ca/elcorreo/story.php?story_id=4114 Freddy Velez is a Colombian reporter of Correo Canadiense a Multicommedia publication.  If any of you doesn't speak spanish please ask an spanish speaking person (not chilean) to translate.  You don't need further investigation, just read.  I rest my case.

Rope, again, I understand that the Chilean soccer players are saying that they were beaten, but again, I think that they're simply looking for someone to blame. The article you referenced seemed like little more than a bunch of quotes from the same soccer player who is lying (and I say lying because he undermines his own credibility by claiming to have been attacked by 10 officers (do you beleive him when he says that? If no, why would you beleive anything he says)). It is disturbing that this journalist says that he was not allowed to take pictures, but the pictures he did manage to take only show, if anything, that the police were not in the frenzied rage that many of the Chileans claim they were.

Anyway, I'm not worried that Canada's reputation has been sullied by this incident, but I guess we'll see.

HAHAHAHA what do you say now, you bunch of goddamn sycophants?  Now that your team has freely admitted to punching a female police officer in the face, and thats what started the brawl?

The Chileans got beat by the Argentinians, beat by the police and beat by the Argentinians.  Did I say beat by the Argentinians?  LOL.  Oh , don't bother telling me that Chile beat Canada.  It's soccer.  Nobody in Canada cares.

I just watched with disgust the press conference that the TO police gave concerning their "investigation" of what happened.? Surprise, surprise, they did nothing wrong.? Would anyone expect a different outcome when cops investigate themselves?? I really liked his "independent" witnesses. All security officials and cops. Nice. BTW, to the jackass who said the chilean team admitted to punching a female cop and that this is what started the whole thing, you're...um...wrong. The chilean team has said nothing of the sort. I think you're quoting the TO chief of police.?
And they are still peddling the ridiculous story that they were just trying to break up a fight between players and some mysterious Argentine fan. I find this version far fetched for various reasons, chief among them that security around the chileans was tight, and I find it tough to swallow that security would somehow have let the players reach this "fan" or vice versa and THEN stepped in to break it up. Utter garbage, when you consider that the players were not even being allowed to approach their own fans. And I can assure you that the VAST majority of fans around the chilean team bus were supporters. An argentinian tryiing to start something with the players would have been jumped long before a player got to him, trust me. If their version is true, then they failed utterly in the job they were given, put the players and chilean federation officials at risk, and at are best incredibly incompetent. I think they're lying. And where is this mysterious fan, so he can step forward and clear everything up? It's BS. As for the free for all, well, there's some other issues. The players were tiny. I mean short and skinny, most not even half the size of those cops. I cannot fathom that a group of "highly trained" officers of the size of most of those cops couldn't control a few of these players, some of whom had just run for 90 minutes, without resorting to punches, kicks, tasers and pepper spray. That is the reaction of someone who has no clue how to get a grip on the situation, and goes with the last resort option as the first. I can only imagine what TO police would do when faced with a real riot involving hundreds of people. Would they shoot into the crowd, and then say they used "appropriate" force? Of course, if this happened, there would still be the same morons here bleating about how the crowd "had it coming" and "fully supporting TO's finest."  ? ?Finally, to the pinhead that keeps asking for video, maybe you should ask the cops why they were putting their hands in front of camera lenses, keeping the press away from the scene, and confiscating equipment. Hard to get good video like that. BTW, there is plenty of video showing bruising and taser marks. The blood on some of the players' faces had been cleaned by the time the press had access to them, but these are no small things, unless you've never been tasered. People have DIED from being tasered. Maybe you can show me video of the poor officers and the injuries THEY recieved. Good luck. No, this smacks of a punchfest by nervous cops and security, who had no idea what they were doing, and were all too eager to lay some hurt on someone a whole lot weaker. Disturbingly, the TO police are not new to this scenario.?
The chilean team did what any other team would do when seeing one of their own being stomped on, by cops or anyone else. They went to defend their teamates. I would not expect any less from our own teams in such a situation. If our junior hockey team were involved in a fracas with police in Russia, let's say, I would hardly expect the rest of the team to board the bus