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TTC unveils new system map and stop poles

Posted by Chris Bateman / February 25, 2013

new ttc mapThe Better Way is working on a better map. A series of new London-style TTC maps and reworked stop poles are currently being rolled out on the 94 Wellesley route with an eye toward making the new designs a fixture system-wide.

The re-worked maps (high resolution verion here) strip away the clutter of the existing design and opt instead for something closer to the classic London Underground look that's proved popular with other transit agencies for its simplicity and clean lines. A recent presentation by the TTC noted that the current maps, located in subway stations and in existing outdoor shelters, are "very cluttered" and "lack critical information."

new ttc stop polesSome of the notable changes include the use of the system's famous font to label subway stations and the addition of a new "you are here" marker, something that's sure to help infrequent riders and visitors to the city. Extraneous information included on the old maps - the region's rivers, major highways, shoreline, etc. - is banished.

Executive director of corporate communications Brad Ross says making surface routes easier to navigate and including alternative routes where they are available is part of the TTC's new focus on customer service.

The TTC expects to have its revised hardware rolled out on the Wellesley route between Castle Frank and Ossington by Friday. On-street interviews and online research will help determine if the new look is successful and if any additional changes are needed. What do you think? Will new maps make it easier to navigate surface routes?

MORE IMAGES:

new ttc mapParliament Street map with key (high res)new ttc mapHarbord Street map with key (high res)new ttc mapThe existing versionttc stop polesClose up of the new stop pole badgesttc stop polesSimplified messagesttc stop polesClearer information on service levelsttc stop polesExisting bus and streetcar stop poles

Chris Bateman is a staff writer at blogTO. Follow him on Twitter at @chrisbateman.

Images: TTC

Discussion

86 Comments

Jon / February 25, 2013 at 04:03 pm
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This isn't confusing at all.
Bob But Not Doug / February 25, 2013 at 04:03 pm
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What we want: vehicles that are on some semblance of time and not packed like cattle cars. What we get: NEW STOP POLES OMG
tommy / February 25, 2013 at 04:08 pm
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Links to images? Blogto's format compresses them down too small.
qqwe replying to a comment from tommy / February 25, 2013 at 04:12 pm
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Did you read the article?
johnsonstarfish replying to a comment from Bob But Not Doug / February 25, 2013 at 04:13 pm
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Totally agree with you. Although I can appreciate them changing these. Although it doesn't make a difference to the people that always ride the TTC, it will help the infrequent travellers.

I do agree that they sometimes have their priorities not straight.
Hector / February 25, 2013 at 04:13 pm
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I can't believe this. New stop poles. What a joke. Get these TTC crackerjacks to ride the Dufferin bus at rush hour, then get back to me with new bloody stop poles. For crying out loud!
Hamish Grant / February 25, 2013 at 04:15 pm
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I noticed they seem to be testing "next streetcar/bus arriving..." gps displays at street level stops... there's one on Dundas West, west of Lansdowne. It still seemed to be on a test-display when I went past last night. Is this something they're going to (hopefully) roll out across the system?
Dan Levy / February 25, 2013 at 04:21 pm
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What the heck is an "All Branches Information Badge"? I don't get its function/purpose.
Giliar Perez / February 25, 2013 at 04:30 pm
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Pretty cool, I think the signage is of pretty good quality and it was already due to some standardization and refinement. Great project.

I just wish BlogTO had links for the large version of the images.
Picard102 replying to a comment from Dan Levy / February 25, 2013 at 04:32 pm
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It would mean all busses that start with the 63 route. So 63, 63A, and 63N.
WUAAA?? / February 25, 2013 at 04:33 pm
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How backwards can the TTC be!!??
Do they actually think that this is BETTER!!!??? WTF?
Wayyyy too confusing and money can be better spent somewhere else like increasing frequency to certain routes.
These new posts are WAY too cluttered and that map is crazy confusing...
GREAT JOB TTC! YOU MANAGED TO SCREW UP YET AGAIN!
Paul / February 25, 2013 at 04:39 pm
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This is a great improvement. The existing maps lack the local detail and the overall clarity. However, now you'll have to have your own general map with you. Still, having been on many transit systems over the world, this is a welcome change.
Jofrey replying to a comment from WUAAA?? / February 25, 2013 at 04:52 pm
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"Oh and BTW, we DONT live in LONDON! I do not understand why we have to copy something that is from London"

Seriously? You`re complaining about "copying" something that has proved useful in London? When the TTC opened the first subway line, do you think people complained that we were "copying" New York and London?
kasual / February 25, 2013 at 04:54 pm
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The existing stop poles do suck. Is this the TTC's biggest problem? Hell no, but it is a step in the right direction. Being able to text for when the next car is supposed to arrive has been useful (albeit often inaccurate / demoralizing as fuck).
Dan Levy replying to a comment from Picard102 / February 25, 2013 at 04:54 pm
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Makes sense but I still don't get why that needs to be a separate badge. Why not just add it in in the same spot they wrote the route number?
Dan Mc / February 25, 2013 at 04:55 pm
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Yep, nothing beats a plain, crappy Helvetica font.
George Bell / February 25, 2013 at 04:56 pm
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This is ridiculous, in a few years everyone will have smart phones - if they don't already. All we need on a post is a logo, a QR code, and a piece of paper with what the busses and their frequency will be...maybe a handicapped logo, although my understanding is all routes will be handicap friendly in a few years as well.

Instead of spending money to redo all these, hire a couple more drivers and a few more busses...

What do people want...more frequent and reliable service...so provide it...
W. K. Lis / February 25, 2013 at 05:14 pm
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These new poles and maps will be "first trialled on the 94 Wellesley Route starting in February, 2013". In other words, they will be tested first, subject to tweaking.

So if you want to comment on the signs, direct your written prose to the TTC on what needs to be changed with your suggestions.
the lemur replying to a comment from WUAAA?? / February 25, 2013 at 05:15 pm
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It's not about copying something because it's from London. The TTC does a lousy job of conveying basic information (such as which routes serve a particular stop, and where they go). This is just (partially) correcting that shortcoming, which happens to be something that other cities (London, among many, many others) figured out a long time ago.

The people who complain about frequency are often the ones who don't have the information that the TTC has neglected to provide. The maps aren't confusing: they show where you are, where you can go from here, and where you can go when you get there.
Behold! I am one of simple mind! / February 25, 2013 at 05:18 pm
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blogto should really just close the comment section, it's a cesspool at this point
the lemur replying to a comment from Dan Mc / February 25, 2013 at 05:19 pm
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Knowing the TTC, that's not even Helvetica but Arial and/or some kind of distorted fake Helvetica.

The system map seems to have the TTC font at the bottom but Futura across the top.
Ben / February 25, 2013 at 05:23 pm
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This actually isn't that bad, as far as stop poles go. It makes sense--or at least with the guide beside it it does.

But it's a shame that they didn't take the opportunity to include QRs in the "Next Vehicle Arrival Module." Could have been a nice modern touch. Maybe a little too modern for the TTC, I guess.
Toronto Batman / February 25, 2013 at 05:24 pm
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I am so excited. Now I can find my way about SO much easier whilst filming myself acting like a tit.
pat / February 25, 2013 at 05:30 pm
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If you're going to simplify things to symbols, you also need to include a legend so people are able to decode the symbols. This works if you have a massive number of symbols and little space (so the symbols + legend are smaller than the decoded information). This legend needs to be added to each of the poles for occasional users and tourists. Does it reduce the amount of information or make it more clear? TEST IT. USER TESTS.

As for the maps in the subway stations and bus shelters: please keep the real maps. Using these lovely graphic ornaments reduces the amount of information. While the new graphic ones emphasize the system routes, they lose the purpose of having maps, which is being able to navigate to one's end destination. The TTC is the means to get there, not the end purpose. People need to see how the TTC route relate to reality and to their goals.
nfitz / February 25, 2013 at 05:36 pm
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Adding bus numbers to the poles is a great idea, and about 50 years overdue.

But why not show the destination or next subway station of the bus, like many other cities do?

As for those complaining they are fixing this, instead of making the buses less crowded? Really? They shouldn't try and fix other stuff too?
BlogTO Admin Team / February 25, 2013 at 05:45 pm
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We did some webcam checking, and the people who complained the loudest in this thread, are also the fattest and greasiest. And all boys.
+1 replying to a comment from Behold! I am one of simple mind! / February 25, 2013 at 05:46 pm
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agreed
BlogTO Troll Team / February 25, 2013 at 05:55 pm
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Yup, Admin Team's data pretty much checks out. Good work.

However, without knowing anything about this issue .. ahem... HOW EFFING STUPID IS IT THAT YOU SPEND MONEY ON WEBCAMS. MONEY COULD BE SPENT SO MUCH BETTER. EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID ACCEPT ME.

thanks for your time.

ps: as a point of order, just because we're diametrically opposed, doesn't mean we can't be civil... oh, hold on a tick. nm.
natr / February 25, 2013 at 05:57 pm
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How about instead of the next vehicle numbers that you have to text to some other number they just include a QR code to scan with your phone? Most people have smart phones these days, texting a number is cumbersome in cold weather and really annoying... It also seems like antiquated technology. If you scan a QR code you could have access to all kinds of information such as service updates, a map of where the bus/streetcar is in real time etc.
Matt replying to a comment from Behold! I am one of simple mind! / February 25, 2013 at 06:16 pm
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Totally agree.
bob / February 25, 2013 at 06:28 pm
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this is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. build more lines.. underground. its canada.
bob / February 25, 2013 at 06:30 pm
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they've constructed 27 km of underground shopping in the finance district but we still have to wait for 3 street cars to pass until one is empty enough to get on in -15 weather. figure it out.
W. K. Lis replying to a comment from bob / February 25, 2013 at 06:43 pm
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How many times does it get to -15°C or lower in Toronto? Why isn't Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton all underground, especially when its a lot, lot colder there than in Toronto?

Back to the signs...
Me / February 25, 2013 at 06:46 pm
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I just drive.
W. K. Lis / February 25, 2013 at 07:15 pm
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Maybe they should have some sort of compass direction or destination on the stop pole. IE. W on the bottom red bar for Westbound, or U for Up trip to reflect the paper transfers.
rimotar / February 25, 2013 at 07:31 pm
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What a great innovation - putting all that info on such a small space! Glad to see our tax money well spent on such creative and useful ideas. Now if TTC would only replace those old style bus shelters with their new open-concept-well-ventilated ones...
Ralph Benson / February 25, 2013 at 07:37 pm
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why can't they just build subways instead of new signs
W. K. Lis replying to a comment from Ralph Benson / February 25, 2013 at 07:41 pm
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Signs, signs, signs are cheaper, cheaper, cheaper than subways, subways, subways, based on the subsidies, subsidies, subsidies, that the TTC gets. Which are low, low, low.
Ralph Benson / February 25, 2013 at 07:46 pm
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why can't they just build subways instead of new signs
TTC Apps replying to a comment from natr / February 25, 2013 at 07:52 pm
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To all you people complaining about no QR codes or complaining about texting, why don't you just download one of the already available TTC apps? If you're worried about being in the cold, you check your damn app before you leave your warm buildings.
Shhhhhhh replying to a comment from TTC Apps / February 25, 2013 at 07:58 pm
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Hipsters need something to complain about.
Frank / February 25, 2013 at 08:39 pm
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"That QR code was so useful and convenient." - Nobody
what replying to a comment from Shhhhhhh / February 25, 2013 at 08:46 pm
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These 'hipster' comment always coming from nowhere

Thank you for that because it's not annoying yet and hilarious
shitsternothipster / February 25, 2013 at 09:12 pm
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This is not about hipsters, but about the TTC not understanding it is 21st century. We don't communicate anymore by posting lots of info on the poles. And when that info is presented in poor and confusing manner, it makes it even worse.
Heather / February 25, 2013 at 09:30 pm
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Now if only they can design something to replace the tiny piece of paper that gets taped to fare booths at 1am that reads "NO TRAINS" in nearly illegible hand writing.
Merv / February 25, 2013 at 09:31 pm
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For all those with smartphones, text to 898-882 and you'll get exactly how long it will take for the streetcar to get to a stop.

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects_and_initiatives/Customer_Information_Initiatives/Next_vehicle_information_system/Text_Messaging.jsp

What the TTC hasn't advertised too much on its bus stops is that on its website (which you can access as TTC mobile), there are timed bus stopsthat also have a number that you can text to 898-882. And you will get exactly how long it will take for the bus to reach you or a timed stop near you.

You do not need an app or QR code or whatever else, the service is already there and ready to use.
junctionist / February 25, 2013 at 09:42 pm
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EXPRESS Routs are a waste of money. -17C outside and the bus with no more than five people don't stop for more than 12 people on the bus stop. TTC is a shit service.
Ratazana / February 25, 2013 at 10:08 pm
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Looks great. Really handy for tourists and people who are new to the area. (Note that most tourist won't use their smartphone and roam while they visit Toronto.) Not everyone can afford a smartphone with data plan. Proper signage makes info accessible to all.
Me replying to a comment from Shhhhhhh / February 25, 2013 at 10:09 pm
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And have no problem finding it.
JM / February 25, 2013 at 10:14 pm
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You do realize that the TTC has separate departments and budgets for improving signage and driving subways right? If you think any service could be added by not making any sign improvements, you're dreaming. Every single time an article about the TTC is published here people scream about more service instead of actually discussing the topic at hand. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the TTC's service budget is powered by BlogTO comments.

I like the new maps, especially the time chart showing when all of the nearby routes run in the bottom left. I like being able to know if I've missed the last bus in one quick glance, rather than having to run through the schedule like with the old signs. Showing all of the surface routes nearby helps too, in case there is a subway shutdown, you can use this to find an alternative to your destination instead of waiting for a godforsaken shuttle bus.
m / February 25, 2013 at 10:33 pm
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won't all that white space just be an open canvas for wannabe graffiti taggers
Hipster replying to a comment from JM / February 25, 2013 at 10:39 pm
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Hey you are interrupting my whining about the TTC.
Bobo / February 25, 2013 at 10:59 pm
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Can't wait until the maps have zones on them and the suburbanites start paying their fair share.
Bob / February 26, 2013 at 01:26 am
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Stop complaining guys! At least the TTC is moving closer to the 21th century. No wonder why this city goes no where. A little improvement and some of the people above goes nuts. At least with the new poles, one can figure out what bus actually stops there. Although I'm not bus route challenge and find this completely unnecessary but sometimes people do get confusing without the route number. The new maps would be really useful with stops serving more than one bus line.

The next thing the TTC should do is make an app using GPS to figure out your location and locate the nearest stop. All the stop should have a stop number for easy navigation on the app. Let's see if the TTC can get this right.
beh / February 26, 2013 at 03:48 am
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)
beh / February 26, 2013 at 03:49 am
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ungrateful bunch of people you are...be happy that we're actually moving forward to something greater.
Roxy / February 26, 2013 at 09:44 am
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Yes, the TTC has many other improvements to make but as Toronto becomes more of a destination to tourists this is something that needed to be done at some point. TTC lacks user-friendliness. It's easier to use transit in foreign countries without knowledge of the language then it is here!
Jason Paris / February 26, 2013 at 09:55 am
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The negativity in this city regarding anything the TTC does is really something to behold. The TTC's wayfinding is currently atrocious and this is a small step towards improvement. While not perfect, I welcome it and will help both daily and infrequent riders.
Marie / February 26, 2013 at 10:04 am
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You people complaining about subways do realize that subways are ridiculously expensive, but signs are much, much less, right? Do you really think the TTC is sitting on billions of dollars and refusing to build a larger underground network and instead putting up new signs? Or that this sign money could be saved and put toward subways as any meaningful contribution?

No, no. You don't realize those things, or you would never have the gall to put up such stupid comments.
Captain Obvious / February 26, 2013 at 10:06 am
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Lipstick on a pig. A really fat, ugly one. I think most riders are bright enough to understand the difference between budgets allowing something like this to happen and making it difficult for expansion, etc. But don't sit there and act like it isn't patronizing as hell and isn't part of the greater public perception issue the TTC faces. Simply move the figure on the balance sheet that has upgrades to the balance sheet that has service. That's all it is.

More buses, more streetcars, more subways, better service... and users wouldn't care if the workers wear chicken suits as a uniform and the branding was styled after Kigali Metro and the poles had human heads on them.
Picard102 replying to a comment from Dan Levy / February 26, 2013 at 10:37 am
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Presumably due to space constraints.
Wilson replying to a comment from Captain Obvious / February 26, 2013 at 10:51 am
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Why is everyone insisting on the false dichotomy of better signs or better service? Why can't we have both? We have better signs now, lets get better service. Why give up anything? Why settle for mediocrity? We want better signs AND better service, not one or the other.
Nick / February 26, 2013 at 11:22 am
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Great, the labeling of stop with their NextBus numbers has been missing, at least for this luddite who owns a dumbphone. The SMS-based alerts are a boon (they're about 98% accurate in my experience), and have worked just dandy for me, providing that I've had the foresight to dig up the stop number hidden on the TTC's website prior to going to it. And to the many commenters above, there are a lot of people outside of your narrow circle of like-minded friends who don't own smart phones and for those, these improvements are very welcome. Finally, these changes would probably cost the equivalent of one additional bus driver, or about 10 meters of new subway.
Captain Obvious replying to a comment from Wilson / February 26, 2013 at 11:45 am
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Huh? Did you even read my post?

The only reason these signs were improved was because they had money left over one the page of the budget sheet earmarked for system improvements. It IS frivilous, like the Fred Flintstone station in the north end under construction. The money's there... so they spend it... instead of saving it and shifting it, money that simply could have been shifted over to add more express buses on Dufferin or lobbying to reduce street parking during rush hour on King.

So, lipstick on a pig. Unless you take the TTC to look at subway stations and spend a bulk of the time complaining about how the poles are ugly.

Woptower / February 26, 2013 at 01:10 pm
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Seriously, the TTC's focus needs to shift over to customer service and accountability.

Would you be happy if your waiter asked you to get up and move to a different table in the middle of a meal at a restaurant? And by the way, your new table isn't quite ready yet and even worse, you have to wait outside in the cold. Naturally, this wouldn't be tolerated by most people if it happened even once, let alone regularly.

Why should this be any different when it comes to short turned TTC vehicles? Yet no one questions or resists it in any way.

I bet the real reason they revamped the poles is so that they could sneakily remove the posted schedules which are never adhered to even remotely.

The worst thing is that I've actually been yelled at by TTC employees for asking what the reason for the short-turn was!
Alex / February 26, 2013 at 01:35 pm
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They're going to leave the system wide maps too though, right? Those can be really useful. Plus don't they already have all this information on the poles? Or is that just at stations? Because I know at the stations each pole has a small route map and time schedule, and most poles I've seen at least have the time schedule.

To everyone saying "this is dumb, everyone has smartphones just use QR codes", how can you possibly believe that? Most people (especially those riding a bus) can't afford smartphones and data plans. Plus if you have a smartphone why do you need a QR code? Just go to nextbus and you can literally watch on the little map as the little bus indicator drives to you. It's always been 100% accurate for me. It's the best website for a TTC user and I can't believe anyone who uses the TTC and owns a smartphone doesn't already have their local stops bookmarked on it.
Russell replying to a comment from Ralph Benson / February 26, 2013 at 02:51 pm
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"why can't they just build subways instead of new signs"

That's kind of like saying, "why don't you buy a Lamborghini instead of a coffee?"
Thomas / February 26, 2013 at 04:11 pm
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90% OF THE COMMENTERS HERE ARE INFURIATINGLY DUMB.
Best replying to a comment from Thomas / February 26, 2013 at 04:25 pm
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Best comment here!
Moaz Yusuf Ahmad / February 26, 2013 at 04:35 pm
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Back to the signs ... I know that the blue bands are not pretty
Moaz Yusuf Ahmad / February 26, 2013 at 04:39 pm
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I liked the blue bands and the 24hrs ... it's easier to see at a distance. I also wonder why the express route needs a specific red circle express badge and a square badge with the detailed route number.
Ben Smith / February 26, 2013 at 07:06 pm
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Well, a step in the right direction, but still obviously flawed.

The first main problem is that for the local maps, they appear to reuse them for a specific area. This means that in some cases, the "You Are Here" point is nowhere near the centre, but closer to the edge.

This leads to the second problem: the regional maps which not only show the extensions of the current route, but all routes which pass through the local area. This just looks confusing, even to those who are familiar with Toronto's geography (especially considering the scale change, where to the south it is far closer than in the north).

What is even stranger is that they will show the full scope of nearby local routes, but not the subway! Personally, if I'm at Harboard and Bathurst, I could care less that the College streetcar goes out to Woodbine! Howeever, knowing that a subway line nearby would take me to that destination would be of more value, especially since it is better designed for such a trip.

The subway connections map in the corner does a far better job explaining the geography of the route than the main local map does.

That out of the way, the general look of the new maps are much improved. The current ones simply look bland, and the thinner lines are far more eye pleasing.
Ben Smith replying to a comment from junctionist / February 26, 2013 at 07:09 pm
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If you are sick and tired of express buses passing you, perhaps you should consider walking the extra 3 minutes to an express bus stop. Might do you some good.

Of course, if the TTC didn't run any express service, then you would be complaining that it is too slow because it stops at every other side street to pick up/drop off a couple of people at a time. So there really is no pleasing you, is there?
Pedro / February 26, 2013 at 11:39 pm
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It's frustrating to see how many narrow minded people live in this city. MORE BUSES! NOT SIGNS they cry. Look at the bigger picture.

Better signage > Less confused customers = satisfied customers, less complaints, less need for bureaucracy to deal with complaints and staff relieved from having to inform confused passengers. What does that give us? More money for "MORE BUSES".

Gil / February 26, 2013 at 11:48 pm
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Couldn't they keep the system map and where the downtown inset is place a local map around the bus stop along with show a "You Are Here" on the system map? Otherwise put those details where the safety tips are on the system map mockup.

W.K. Lis' comment about putting the direction sounds like a good idea (I'd advise against using the transfer direction, those things are confusing enough!) you run into problems where multiple routes running in different directions share a stop. Take Eglinton West(bound) at Lascelles, there the 5 South, 61 North and 32 West all share the stop. Perhaps putting the direction next to the route?
Raymond / February 27, 2013 at 10:18 am
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For whatever it's worth, I'm no map illiterate - but despite dozens of attempts I've never been able to figure out the London bus map that these are clearly modeled on. They're probably the most muddled communication to come out of London Transport, otherwise known for generating famously simple maps and diagrams.
Chris / February 27, 2013 at 11:15 am
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The existing signs seem clearer to me than this proposal, which requires one to look at multiple maps to get less information. Orienting oneself to natural features is not a bad.

I'm not saying the existing maps couldn't be redesigned to be better, but this is not better.

Pole design is an improvement though.
mark replying to a comment from George Bell / February 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm
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thats all well and good for people who choose to own smartphones, i and many others do not want one, hell i dont even text.... give me simple phone that gives me decent battery life and makes and recieves calls and thats i want (which thanks to smartphones is getting to be a rare thing these days)....... i dont need email, internet etc everywhere i go..... up till a few years ago, we didnt have those things on a phone and we survived....
Aaron / March 1, 2013 at 08:58 pm
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This will be rolled out on Wellesley, the TTC will fuck with it for a few years, the revised signs will be rolled out on a few other routes, the TTC will fuck with those for a few more years, 10 years from now there will be a mix of old/new/new revised signs and BlogTO will be doing a 'Remember When' segment on the abandoned, new/new revised sign project.

And DRL study #912 will be released using the same 1985 map as they are using today.
Lived in other cities besides TO replying to a comment from Bob / March 2, 2013 at 08:29 pm
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"The next thing the TTC should do is make an app using GPS to figure out your location and locate the nearest stop. All the stop should have a stop number for easy navigation on the app. Let's see if the TTC can get this right."

Great idea - maybe TTC should partner with google maps to do this - oh...wait.....they did.
No, Non, Nyet / May 22, 2013 at 01:51 pm
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I am so utterly convinced that 80% of the jackasses that commented on this post talking about "YAY nicer signage gj w2g TTC!!! and how dare anyone complain about anything else" DO NOT actually ride the TTC. I'll then be willing to estimate that perhaps 15% of the rest of the idiots in this post work for the TTC.

Seriously. Fuck the signs. If people need help going somewhere the just turn to the person next to them and ask for help as they always have, so I'll just echo what more sensible souls on here have said - the TTC needs to make a more concentrated effort fixing their reliability, adding more buses, etc. instead of wasting everyone's time with this crap.
Elton / June 4, 2013 at 03:31 am
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According to the imaginative Walt Disney, curiosity makes us explore
new paths. I'm tremendously curious to walk along this path with you and see exactly where it goes to.
Louis Vuitton Outlet / August 1, 2013 at 10:29 am
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You lost me, friend. I mean, I imagine I purchase what youre saying. I’m sure what you’re saying, but the truth is just seem to have forgotten that might be another folks into the world who view this problem for which it really is and might perhaps not agree with you. You might be turning away numerous folks that had been lovers of this website.
Patrick / October 23, 2013 at 12:01 pm
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About the "bus stop poles" we need to know:

1. bus number x destination subway station
2. bus stop number

TTC, learn with Montréal...
uchwyt do echosondy / March 30, 2014 at 09:30 pm
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Dave Blackstone took big bass honors with a 2.
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