City
What should Toronto do with the Gardiner Expressway?
The cost of fixing the rapidly deteriorating Gardiner Expressway has been back in the headlines recently as the city's budget committee discusses whether or not to commit to a proposed ten-year, $505 million program of repairs necessary to stop the road from falling down.
The concrete cladding and internal metal structure are all in urgent need of attention if the city wants to avoid more falling material, but fixes are going to come at a cost regardless of whether we decide to pay for it in the way the city desires. In short, the bill has arrived and we have to pay up somehow.
So what are the alternative routes the city could take?
TEAR IT DOWN
One way the city might save a cash is to partly demolish the highway and put the repair money towards a revised road east of Jarvis. A tunneled stretch through downtown (very expensive with the lake so close and the quality of the soil) or a total rebuild of the existing street are pretty much out of the question.
According to a 2009 study cited by Matt Elliott at Metro, just eight per cent of commuters to the downtown core used the Gardiner. Taking the road out completely would be viable if there were decent alternatives to the road, like subways or suburban commuter rail like GO. To handle the bodies displaced by the loss of the elevated highway there would need to be significant service increases on the Lake Shore line, which currently runs roughly every 30 minutes at rush hour.
TOLLS
Toronto isn't really used to the idea of paying to use highways but there are numerous other countries that charge drivers to use high-traffic or maintenance heavy roads. Drivers using the Sydney Harbour Bridge and tunnel, for example, are required to toss a coin into a bucket before they're allowed to proceed downtown. A small toll could also reduce traffic, which is something everyone can get behind, and the money could also be used to fund new public transit.
From previous discussions we know road tolls have the potential to rake in serious cash for the city. A 1-cent per kilometre toll could generate $1.5 billion for repairs and provide much-needed transportation funding for Metrolinx's next wave of Big Move projects.
PAY UP
$505 million is a serious chunk of change. If the current budget gets the green light, the cost of the repairs will be spread out over ten years but the disruption caused by carrying out the work will likely not improve traffic flow in the short term. This also doesn't solve the problem of having a major highway scything through the downtown core creating a barrier to the waterfront.
Issues like that might be secondary at this stage but I hope it at least factors in to the decision.
TURN IT INTO A PARK
I'm an optimist, but I seriously doubt anything like this could happen. Turning the Gardiner into a High Line North would undoubtedly be neat but I suspect the resulting tourism dollars would be tiny compared to keeping the highway running under a toll.
But why not build a park on top of the highway, making it a sort of automobile sandwich with a filling of CO2? A half-hearted proposal from back in 2010 by Quadrangle Architects suggested partially roofing the Gardiner and planting an seven kilometre walkable park up top. The "Green Ribbon" didn't make it beyond the concept stage but there's always a chance, right?
Chris Bateman is a staff writer at blogTO. Follow him on Twitter at @chrisbateman.
Photo: "Gardiner Eastbound" by John Elmslie from the blogTO Flickr pool.
Discussion
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People will get used to the tolls over time.
Use that money to bury it (why is the proximity to water mentioned in the article a problem when Boston, next to water, did it?).
The really cool thing with burying it is the space leftover could provide a massive canyon of park space right in the heart of downtown... bike lanes... walking paths. awesome!
8% of all commuter's is a huge percentage to re channel. There is nothing in the TTC's history ( or city halls for that matter) to indicate that they could in any way, shape, or form successfully manage that. The TTC is in desperate need of a massive top to bottom overhaul. Frankly Metrolinx is a band-aid solution, in twenty years after implementation you will have 10 Scarborough lines instead of one.
At the same time, start charging everyone from outside the downtown core a road tax for driving on our roads. That will alleviate most of the traffic issues we currently face.
We already pay a ton of money in taxes (including on gasoline) to pay for roads and highways to avoid stupid things like tolls. Don't want to sound like a right wing nut put this really is kinda like another tax on drivers, no one can really deny that.
so f"ing what?
Westbound after 3 pm, it's jammed beyond all understanding.
They should ditch the entire Gardiner east of yonge and make it a buck a ride. 50 cents if you get a transponder.
2) ???
3) Profit.
It should be tolled. Revenue generated can then go into digging a tunnel/funding public transit, while keeping the Gardiner running as those projects come to fruition. That solves the problem of what to do with existing traffic during a major construction of a new in-road to the city. And by the time a tunnel would be completed, people will have gotten used to a toll, which can then continue to be put into that infrastructure amongst other things.
Do what many other cities have done -- tear it down, replace it with a more efficient and beautified Lakeshore Drive along with pedestrian and bike infrastructure and improvements (think all-day electric service) to GO trains.
That costs money, but if you want to be a world class city that's what is required.
Bad idea. The streets at the bottom of those exits will not be able to handle the traffic being dumped on them. There are already huge backups just trying to get off the darn highway. I waited nearly an hour to get off at Spadina a few weeks ago (granted, Spadina has reduced lanes right now).
You don't. You sound like a left wing nut who wants everything given to them for free.
THIS is a very very very important/enticing thing to consider - it won't take forever to dig. It won't cost bazillions.
Of all the arguments floating around dismissing tolls, this one holds the least amount of merit. Driving into Manhattan requires an entry toll (typically $12 from New Jersey and $6.50 from Long Island), not to mention traffic congestion and the high price of parking.
I'm not trying to compare Toronto tourism to NYC tourism, but if tourists avoid Toronto because of an "uninviting" minimal road toll, I think we have greater issues to contend with.
Cities like Singapore have done this efficiently for decades. It reduces traffic and funds the infrastructure. You then have money to spend on public transit.
In our case, because the Gardiner is owned by the City (and not a private company), the tolls could be much lower - designed primarily to cover the cost of maintaing the road (or, if council decides, it could also be used to generate revenues for the City, but still at a far lower rate than the 407). Those who refuse to pay it will find other means to get into the city, leaving a less busy highway for those who choose to keep driving on it. Plus, the city doesn't go broke maintaining a highway we can barely afford, but can't afford to get rid of.
And I wouldn't worry too much about it driving people away from the city - people still have to work, shop, eat and play, and this is where they do it. Toll roads on the Gardiner are not going to suddenly make Mississauga or Oakville the cultural centres of Ontario and it won't scare off tourists - they mostly stay downtown, so the tolls would have no effect except when taking a cab to the airport (which makes it even more important to get the rail link done).
The fact is, there are cities all over the US, not just New York and Boston, that charge tolls to drive on just about all of their highways or expressways. Its time we give up the myth that our crumbling highways can be maintained solely through gas taxes (which are mostly siphoned off to the Feds or the Prov as it is). If it were true, we'd be doing it already, and the crumbling Gardiner is proof that we're not doing it.
In terms of practicality, I don't think it would be very easy to shut down a road that 200000 cars use every day, even though it only accounts for 8% of commuters.
The area the Gardiner sits on right now is either landfill from basements being excavated downtown or garbage landfill that filled in where the lake once stood. That means you have poorly compacted soil (and probably poor soil types) that are at the water table - and there's nothing quite like trying to build a tunnel in watery soil. They'd have to either bury it at the bedrock or sink piles to the bedrock, which isn't cheap. Many of the condos in the area either have deep basements (5 stories below ground, for example) or have their foundations anchored to the bedrock. It's not a cheap proposition (multi-billion dollar project for something that is 100% subsidized and doesn't carry significant amounts of traffic).
The Gardiner is the last big Mistake by the Lake - tear it down and dump the last bit of "modernism" that wrecked downtowns all over the US & Canada. Look towards Manhattan, or better yet, Europe for some good ideas on how to move people, like suburban trains every 5 minutes like they have in Paris (we have the same density as Paris metro area for comparison).
SO am I to guess your a right winger an din favour of tolls?
As for me, I'd call myself a centrist, and I am in favour of tolls, particularly ones high enough to fund transit development in a significant way. Not to penalize drivers, or to give a free ride to public transit users, but to reduce traffic congestion, along with all the great things that come as a result. Traffic is bad and parking is expensive precisely because too many people drive. If we make it easier to not drive, everyone benefits.
Gardiner has around 50000 trips per day. Probably 30000 during peak periods of 7 am to 9 am and 4 pm to 6 pm.
So, 30000 * $2 per trip ($4 bucks both way) is $60,000 a day. * (52 * 5) = $15.6M - 20% for overhead of toll collection for $12.48M/ year or $128M in 10 years. Do the same thing with the DVP.
Bring back the vehicle registration fee, but earmark funds for road repairs such as old track removal and resurfacing. Toronto's uneven streets (simulated lunar surfaces) are not only hard on cars, but also a hazard to cyclists and pedestrians.
I'm for any option that keeps the highway through downtown, even if that means raised taxes, tolls whatever... and yes I actually LIVE in Toronto.
Toronto already has far too few expressways for the size of the city, and with so many botched plans and failings to properly develop transportation infrastructure, it's short sighted ness of the cost and what it looks like which we are going to pay for forever if it's not solved now.
and for those that think "it impedes access to the waterfront", there is no place anywhere along the Gardiner that stops your access to the water. Ever thgouth of walking the 100-200m underneath it to the other side?! hmmm
The fact is that the 50,000 drivers who benefit from commuting on it do not come close to the city-wide benefit of having a proper lakeshore.
Fix it up structurally and put the LRT on it along with regular car traffic.
These businesses could pay a small annual fee for access to the Gardiner (or per use like 407).
It would create some room on the Lakeshore which individuals could take up.
Seriously, have you ever even heard of the Big Dig and its $22 billion cost? Get real. A tunnel is just a cash cow for engineering and construction firms. It shouldn't even be considered.
Then they should put it underground AND also run the subway relief line under as well (Doing it all at once). Make it open space and parks above.
They should close Bay street (from the downtown relief line stop) up to union station and build a multi purpose building of glass the whole way. Which would be of bike lanes, walking paths/green space and maybe even a set of long moving walkway escalators (Like in airports) while the whole way having shops that the city rents cheaper than going rates to build business relationships with who they want in this enclosed path.
The last things that needs to be done is patch things up and waste money. Start building for the future instead of trying to keep the city in the past.
Besides, it's not like the city isn't aware of the problem - they are just choosing to ignore it. Like they do with everything else in this city.
If you drive in to the city and use our infastructure, you should have to pay a small fee. Worse case scenario, people dont want to pay and decide to tak ethe GO instead, which means less traffic.
We're gonna have a party and watch the Gardiner blow up. I'm going to bake a cake in the shape of the Gardiner blowing up.
We could have easily reduced the amount of cars with extended subways and stations, and the Gardiner could have still be repaired.
With all the money the city could potentially generate with the PAN AM Games, some of that should have gone to Subways and Repairs of the Gardiner, on top of properly allocating our tax dollars.
This is all about how to manage those necessary and remaining car trips in a way that is more urbanistic. Put the roadway on the ground, pretty it up with landscaping, allow occasional stoplights so people can cross -- it's not quite as good as a highway, but it's much more livable for the city around it. There is nothing wrong with a bigger, beautified Chicago- or New York- style Lakeshore Blvd. There is everything wrong with the Gardiner Expressway.
I would also add that the City should add a fee to developers of condos and office towers to earmark for a fund for the Gardiner. Greedy developers have been building everywhere without regard for city planning or congestion and now they should shoulder the cost as well.
That will be an excellent idea to help Torontonians who struggle with three hour commutes from Scarborough to Etobicoke: fighting for seats with people from Mississauga.
But hey, if Mississauga wants a subway (HAH), they can pay for it. As a Torontonian, I'm sick of subsidizing cheap ass suburban commuters who think their miserable commutes have everything to with Torontonian transit users and NOTHING to do with the unnatural human effect of moving far, far away from where you work.
Also, I have a hard time believing that 8% number.
"If we invested in SUBWAYS instead of stupid LRTS, we wouldn't be so concerned with the amount of vehicles coming in and out the city."
Which means you advocate for the ridiculous idea of TTC subway extensions in the 905. Which benefits no one except 905ers who have been getting a free ride for too long.
So, either way, yer wrong.
Besides, if the stats are accurate and most of the rush hour traffic is from the 905 anyways, it may be unnecessary.
That being said: I think tolls are the best way to go. The Gardiner is falling to pieces and we're out of time to decide on an expensive workaround.
BIG DIG! BIG DIG! BIG DIG!!
If we say it emphatically enough times, it will plant itself inside the heads of some relevant councillors/MPPs (of which there seem to be very few).
Appreciate it