Thursday, May 23, 2013Mostly Cloudy 19°C
City

Whatever happened to the Etobicoke RT?

Posted by Chris Bateman / June 23, 2012

bloor danforth subway extension openingHeading to the airport via Kipling station a few weeks ago, I noticed an area on the south side of the upper level opposite the bus loading area that appeared to be an empty trackbed and roughed-in platform. It was obviously nothing to do with the subway below - the bed was too narrow anyway - so what was it?

It turns out the inaccessible area visible through plate glass windows from inside the station is the only piece ever built of a planned Etobicoke light rail line. By extending the Bloor-Danforth line east to Kennedy and west to Kipling, the TTC once planned to provide connections to two LRTs that would bookend the route and serve the less dense areas beyond with lower predicted ridership.

As we now know, the Scarborough RT would be the only one of the pair constructed. Kipling station's full potential, and perhaps raison d'etre, would be lost somewhere along the way.

kipling kennedy station construction diagramsIn the late 70s, the TTC began work on what would be the final extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway line. At a cost of $110 million, 75 per cent of which came from the province, one stop was added in each direction to Kipling Avenue and Kennedy Road.

In the east, the line would connect with the Scarborough RT and create a transit hub for passengers to switch to other forms of surface transit. In the west, Kipling would also hook up to an LRT and provide connections to GO trains and regional busses. The circular "Kiss'n'Ride" drop off area would make pick ups and drop offs by car easy ("kissing is encouraged but not mandatory," according to promotional material.)

Realistically, extending the line to Kipling was never as easy to justify financially as the Kennedy extension. If you think about it, the Bloor-Danforth line could still easily terminate at Islington today and provide similar services and connections. Several local bus routes were altered to start or end at Kipling at the time.

As James Bow from Transit Toronto notes, adding a stop in a low density area like the middle of Kipling Avenue never really panned out for the TTC. Mississauga transit still prefers the location of Islington station for its hub and GO riders could just as easily board a subway stop earlier if the necessary infrastructure was in place.kipling station construction 1980So what would a west-end LRT have looked like had it been built? According to Scott Haskill, a senior transit planner at the TTC, the Etobicoke RT would have run north on the Kipling hydro corridor to Pearson then east on the Finch corridor toward York University.

Presumably the system would have looked similar to the Scarborough RT. Local stops could have been included at Burnhamthorpe Road, Rathburn Road, Eglinton Avenue, Highway 401/427, Islington Avenue, Weston Road and Highway 400 if this had ended up becoming the final route.

Interestingly, the east end RT was originally conceived to use ALRVs - the double, articulated streetcars shown in the illustration above - but the arrival of the high-tech, driverless ICTS vehicles, which were backed by the province, convinced the TTC to modify the route mid-construction. The strange single track at Kennedy, different to what is shown in the plan above, is proof of this last-minute design change.

Since the province managed to get ICTS cars in Scarborough, it's therefore pretty safe to assume the vehicles would have been used in Etobicoke too.ttc bloor danforth subway posterIn the end, the TTC never pursued the Etobicoke RT as a viable transit line and it joined the long list of abandoned or never-developed ideas the commission probably tucks away in a dusty desk somewhere. Other stations have similar "future-proofing" for services that have yet to arrive; there's an extra tunnel without track at Kipling for access to an unbuilt yard and the Sheppard and Spadina stops have knock-out panels for access for new connections, should they ever arrive.

Next time you're at Kipling imagine hopping on a rapid transit vehicle instead of cramming onto the airport rocket bus.

ETOBICOKE RT MAP:


View Etobicoke RT in a larger map

MORE IMAGES:

kipling station opening poster bus routesNotice of bus route changes with the new Kipling stationold ttc map bloor danforthHow the TTC map looked with Kipling and Kennedy but no Scarborough RTkipling station construction aerial 1980Aerial photo of Kipling station on completion. The LRT track bed runs along the south side of the buildingscarborough rt opening leafletLeaflet from the opening day of the Scarborough RT

ttc rapid transit ad 1980sLRTs - rapid transit for the 1980s?

--

Images: City of Toronto Archives.

Discussion

25 Comments

mark / June 23, 2012 at 10:50 am
user-pic
They were right, it was rapid transit for the 80's. Too bad it is 2012 and we're still living in the 80's according to those learned people on city council.
Shane / June 23, 2012 at 11:12 am
user-pic
A route map of the Etobicoke RT would be a good thing to add to this post...!
Shane / June 23, 2012 at 11:32 am
user-pic
I've never understood why they have ignored these empty hydro corridors in Scarborough, Etobicoke and North York. They're ripe for LRT, even a busway.

Google maps show how *easily* FAST transit could be built to the outlying areas. Just a quick glance at the map shows that North Etobicoke/Rexdale, the Finch E-W Corridor and Central Scarborough/ Malvern could be accessed with minimal fuss.

But yet we have nothing. Again.
fee replying to a comment from mark / June 23, 2012 at 01:14 pm
user-pic
Too bad anything other than LRT would cost 10 times the money and not serve enough people to warrant it. This actually serves to show how misguided we were in the past, not the present.
Ben Smith replying to a comment from mark / June 23, 2012 at 01:15 pm
user-pic
By that line of logic, subways are rapid transit technology from the 1920s.

Monorails, perhaps?
Timmy / June 23, 2012 at 01:21 pm
user-pic
I've always wondered that too Shane! Especially with the one in Etobicoke that goes right from the Kipling station up towards the airport. I guess it makes too much sense eh. And like you said, even a busway would help...
James / June 23, 2012 at 01:27 pm
user-pic
The single track at Kennedy was not a "last-minute design change". In fact, it was a double track for many years after the RT had started service. It was eventually changed to a single track because I believe the problem was the turning loop was too tight for the RT trains (maybe because it WAS originally designed for streetcars). Anyone who stood on the platform while the train was making the loop could hear the scrape and squeal of the trains' wheels on the tracks as it made its way through the loop verrrrrry slowly.
Bob / June 23, 2012 at 01:34 pm
user-pic
Ah, yes the ghost platform at Kipling Station. It's much better designed than the 4 levels at Kennedy. The vehicles, the CLRV (aka the slow downtown streetcars that is falling apart) was designed to operate at 90 km/h when they're placed on the SRT. Could you imagine if the streetcars fail on the SRT?

Here's why I believe why these Hydro Corridors would never work for RT. 1. Noise. People would complaint how noisy to have rail vehicles ruing till 1am in the morning. Then they'll grind the tracks at night while it's located within 50m of many homes. 2. The cost of grade separation. LRT in the 80's were designed to be fully grade separated. There isn't a rail corridor beside the route unlike the SRT. That means all the overpasses had to be built. 3. Access to the Stations. Only a few stations will be built within a major intersection. You'll ended up having more Midland/McCowan stations where the total use does even reach 6,000 daily because they are located in the worst place ever. Most people in Toronto would take a bus to the subway/RT instead of walking to the stations. Probably a surface LRT is much more suitable. 4. Demand. Ridership in central Etobicoke remains low. The 46 Martin Grove bus serves the neighbourhood around the hydro corridor till Eglinton. This bus doesn't get a lot of ridership since the 191 existed to grab all the people from the north. The 48 Rathurburn/50 Burnhamthorpe gets even less riders. The 192 Airport bus gets a decent amount during busy seasons, but that's still not enough for RT. 5. Hydro company. They generally dislike that fact that their corridor is being used for public transit. They think the line would get in their way and fear public safety. They also charge a leasing fee for transit use.
Chris Bateman replying to a comment from Shane / June 23, 2012 at 01:39 pm
user-pic
I couldn't dig up any official diagrams or maps in the archives. The Google one I've just added to the end will have to do. It shows the hydro corridors the RT would have used to get to Pearson and beyond. Enjoy!
Bubba / June 23, 2012 at 01:44 pm
user-pic
always wondered what that empty platform at Kipling was for!
Peter / June 23, 2012 at 06:32 pm
user-pic
Very cool article!! I had no idea there was a potential Etobicoke LRT. Wouldn't that look nice right now. Which means it will never get built (we never do the logical here in Toronto).

I was taking a look along the proposed route above in Google Maps and I noticed the last stretch lines up very well with the upcoming Finch LRT. Here's a crazy idea--how about extending that LRT along the route of this defunct Etobicoke LRT, connecting to the airport AND the Crosstown LRT, and ending up at Kipling station? Is there enough ridership now to justify this?
A / June 23, 2012 at 06:35 pm
user-pic
Where are the knock-out panels at Spadina exactly?
Shane / June 23, 2012 at 07:56 pm
user-pic
@Bob - a good example would be the Orange Line in L.A. That's in an even narrower ROW and it works just fine. Granted, it's a busway but I think NIMBYism is invalid when it comes to the greater good of the city. Perhaps the need for an Etobicoke busway/LRT isn't there, but that Finch ROW is perfect for a busway.

I am not a native of Toronto but i can tell this city is lacking something more important - visionaries.
Jay replying to a comment from Bob / June 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm
user-pic
The SRT Cars and the CLRV/ALRV cars are pretty much in a equal state of shabbiness and they are only slow because they have to deal with downtown traffic. If you want to see what they can do on their own tracks you can visit Sacramento or Salt Lake City who both run second hand 25 year old nearly identical vehicles! They vehicles were purchased from Santa Clara. The current SRT vehicles are falling apart, but these ones are still going strong.

http://picasaweb.google.com/111087824614272064562/UTDCLRVsAtSacramentoRTAndUtahTransitAuthority#5513123638311245650
Stickyourheadbackinyourbehindmark replying to a comment from mark / June 23, 2012 at 11:19 pm
user-pic
boy, you aren't the brightest colour in the crayon box. Dozens of north american cities are building lrt lines. But people like feel what they building is outdated and wrong. No wonder you voted for ford, both of you live in fantasy lands.
Wilson replying to a comment from Jay / June 24, 2012 at 01:08 am
user-pic
Interesting that these cars from Santa Clara were built by UTDC.

UTDC was the train-building corporation owned by the Ontario government and built streetcars, subways, and RT trains for the TTC exclusively during the 1980s. It is the same company that built the SRT cars.
Zach Swan / June 24, 2012 at 07:16 am
user-pic
And for all you Millerites who kept repeating that SRT was not an LRT as part of your effort to defend this pathetic LRT plan that we're stuck with, please read above. You were wrong.
Shane / June 24, 2012 at 09:47 am
user-pic
Re: 'Ford Voter' The problem with the internet is that we now all have to suffer the musings of any common twat with a computer and an internet connection, such as yourself. I miss the days of not having to know people's opinions - at least the newspapers filtered the letters people wrote! Le sigh.
Shane replying to a comment from Stickyourheadbackinyourbehindmark / June 24, 2012 at 10:00 am
user-pic
In reply to Stickyourheadbackinyourbehindmark

RE-READ Mark's comment V E R Y S L O W L Y and T H I N K about what he is actually saying. OK, children, back to Grade Two reading lessons and a puppet show after recess!

Are people really this dumb?
OK replying to a comment from Zach Swan / June 24, 2012 at 11:31 am
user-pic
Keep thinking that, moron! My god you people are so stupid!
Jay / June 24, 2012 at 12:38 pm
user-pic
Other than the term exclusively what you said is correct.

You are aware that the Vancouver skytrain is the same technology as the SRT right? You know they built subway trains for Turkey right?

The idea was for the Province to keep the money from developing and building TTC vehicles in Ontario while making more money by selling them elsewhere. No exclusivity anywhere! That would be bad for business!
W. K. Lis replying to a comment from Wilson / June 24, 2012 at 07:19 pm
user-pic
The UTDC cars were built in the very same factory in Thunder Bay where the new Bombardier heavy rail (Subway) trains, streetcars, and light rail vehicles are being built.
arahman41 / June 24, 2012 at 07:39 pm
user-pic
"How the TTC map looked with Kipling and Kennedy but no Scarborough RT"

Also, no Downsview.

In addition, better pictures. Some of the pictures are impossible to read.
pilotlight / June 28, 2012 at 10:19 am
user-pic
Wow. Let's have a bit more of a polite exchange of ideas here people! The article was interesting and thought provoking at the very least. So much of transit debate seems dominated by knee-jerk reactions. It's great to have an interest in the topic but if discussion turns into personal attacks so easily, it's no wonder there hasn't been as much progress as everyone would have liked to see. There are no perfect, flawless plans, and cities,as well as ideas evolve. Just keep it civil out there folks!
shade sails USA / July 5, 2012 at 03:32 pm
user-pic
Great post.

Add a Comment

Other Cities: Montreal