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City

Pride funding safe for 2012

Posted by Derek Flack / June 7, 2012

Pride funding safe 2012Pride funding is safe for another year. Although Councillor James Pasternak hinted that he'd submit a motion to make festival funding contingent upon the non-participation of activist group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA), council came to a compromise that preserves support of the parade and condemns the use of the term "Israeli Apartheid."

This is the second year in a row that Pride funding has been drawn into question on account QuAIA's potential participation. Last year, the group ultimately agreed not to participate so as to avoid jeopardizing the parade and affiliated events. This year, however, the group has announced its intentions to march.

Today's vote thus makes sense. The City has officially distanced itself from QuAIA and maintained its support for one of our most important cultural events without adopting some contingency-based scenario over a decision that organizers have very little control over in the first place (i.e. who decides to show up).

The conclusion of this particular chapter doesn't, however, close the book on this issue. Far from it. In the coming weeks the executive committee will meet to consider a staff report on revisions to the anti-discrimination policy related to the expression "Israeli Apartheid." How exactly that will play out — and whether or not it will impact future Pride funding — is not yet clear, but you can bet we're in for more heated debate.

Photo by Jen Tse

Discussion

68 Comments

Grant / June 7, 2012 at 07:20 pm
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Guess this group will be rebranding or sitting home. If only they'd gone with the less anti-Semitic name like Queers Supporting a Free Palestine, there wouldn't be problems. Unless of course their point was to denigrate Israel and not support Palestine.
steve replying to a comment from Grant / June 7, 2012 at 07:37 pm
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I hope this puts an end to the underlying homophobia. I always felt it had little to do with QuIA it was an attempt to find a way to cancel the event.
Serge / June 7, 2012 at 07:37 pm
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How can they rebrand? The "Israel Apartheid" brand is their whole raison d'être. Lose the name, lose the brand.
Sasha / June 7, 2012 at 09:08 pm
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Steve, this is absolutely nothing to do with homophobia. This has to do with trying to stop a rabidly antisemitic group from being given the right to use our glorious GAY PRIDE parade as an audience for it's hateful message. As they state on their web site, QuAIA supports the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement which seeks delegitimize the State of Israel.
J replying to a comment from Sasha / June 7, 2012 at 10:46 pm
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"rabidly anti-Semitic"

Are you serious?!

Many prominent people - including Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu - have described the Israeli occupation as a form of apartheid. In fact, Desmond Tutu has stated that what the Palestinians are suffering now is worse than what Black South Africans faced.

Is one no longer allowed to criticize Israeli government policy without being branded "anti-Semitic"?
Lilly B. / June 7, 2012 at 11:40 pm
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Please keep such heated politics out of Pride; it is not in alignment with the spirit of the Pride, no good comes out of it, and all it does is harm. I'm not debating Arab-Israeli conflict here, anyone with any stance on this issue is welcome to exercise their civil right of holding a protest and making their voices heard, only outside of the Pride. The QuIA folks are choosing the wrong venue for their activism. Just to let you know, I am a queer woman who loves Pride.
steve replying to a comment from Sasha / June 7, 2012 at 11:44 pm
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Pure crap!!! does that age me? Politics used to promote homophobia on all sides.
steve replying to a comment from Sasha / June 7, 2012 at 11:50 pm
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Should add that both sides used pride to get what they wanted and neither cared if they killed pride or who they hurt. Using gays as a scapegoat is a form of homophobia.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 06:18 am
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J - Jimmy Carter has been criticized as being antisemitic; a quick google search will prove that. Just before the possible campaign of his grandson, Jason, he came out apologizing for his remarks about Israel. In his book, he supports use of the phrase Israeli apartheid, and he was quoted at having said:

“In my opinion, Netanyahu brought up several obstacles to peace in his speech that others before him have not placed. He... demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state, even though 20% of Israel’s citizens are not Jewish.” LIKE WHAT!!! Having the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is at the crux of this matter. Israel has the right to self-determination and this movement, this "Israeli Apartheid" movement seeks to DENY THIS RIGHT.

It is clear that QuAIA seeks the delegitimization of the State of Israel when they say "Ending Israel’s occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall" - Please READ THAT - THE COLONIZATION OF ALL ARAB LANDS is what they are saying. They basically expect Israel to open it's doors to the surrounding Arab countries so that they may flood in with Arab Muslims.

UNWRA establishes a status for Palestinian refugees that IT NOT GRANTED TO ANY OTHER REFUGEE IN THE WORLD, and that is the seemingly right to carry over refugee status to ones offspring. This is how they claim there are so many refugees. The reality is, by applying the same rules to Palestinian refugees that applies to all other refugees, there are maybe some 50,000, NOT 5 million.

Further, unlike ALL OTHER REFUGEES, Palestinian refugees, in most cases, HAVE NOT, AND WILL NOT be absorbed by their ARAB host countries and granted citizenship. This is done intentionally, with the sole intent to keep this as an ongoing problem.

Israel is constantly being singled out, and expected to adhere to policies WHICH NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, PAST OR PRESENT, is expected to adhere to. This is the double standard, and this is anti-Semitism.

The reality is, THIS BOYCOTT IS NOT "JUST" A CRITICISM OF THE policies of the current ISRAELI LEADERSHIP, BECAUSE this movement SEEKS TO HARM ISRAELI CITIZENS, INSTITUTIONS, and government, no matter where THEY ARE IN THE WORLD.

As Canadians, I thought we were better than this....
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 06:24 am
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Lilly B - I agree with you that GAY PRIDE is not the appropriate venue for this. Their mandate is to promote GAY PRIDE, whereas it is the goal of the group QuAIA to promote their anti-Israeli cause. This is not with the spirit of Toronto Pride, I would hope, and for this reason at minimum QuAIA should not be allowed to participate.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 06:59 am
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J- THE DOUBLE STANDARD - "The international community has never forced the repatriation of refugees to their former country following a war, nor spearheaded their claims for compensation. It certainly didn’t do either in the case of the Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Nor has it ever demanded that a victorious country withdraw from land it conquered in a defensive war."
Cheryl / June 8, 2012 at 07:36 am
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I think QAIA and all of their supporters in the gay community should go to Gaza, the West Bank or ANY arab country in the region and organize a pride festival in support of the Palestinian people. Oh, thats right, you can't because Israel is the ONLY country in the region which doesn't oppress, imprison, or in some cases execute, people for being gay.
Keith replying to a comment from Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 08:28 am
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QuAIA is hardly an anti-semitic group. Many Jews in this protest group.
McRib / June 8, 2012 at 08:32 am
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i don't get why the organizers have no control over who does or does not march in the parade?

I dont really give a shit about QUAIA or who wants to march or who doesnt, but surely the organizers can stop them from marching, especially if it is possibly damaging to the parade itself.

And QUAIA should really show a bit more respect to the rest of the people who enjoy and go to Pride. If the consequences of them marching is that funding is pulled for following years, all they will have accomplished is to make themselves look like assholes.

and all this anti-semite talk is so effing stupid. There are countries alla round the world where anti-semitism is alive and well and rampant throughout the population. Canada is not one of those places, and people who criticize the Israeli government are not anti-semites. Do yourselves a favour and stop this ridiculous talk.
Mark / June 8, 2012 at 09:25 am
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These bigots are given free reign to march and make their idiotic point. Sad day for the city. No doubt Wong-Tam, who used to own their website is pleased to see these anti-semites marching.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 09:53 am
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Keith - Just because a few Jewish people may be involved in QuAIA, does NOT mean it can not be an anti-Semitic group. That is like saying that if there are a few Communists in the US, America supports communism. Or, by saying there are some Coptic Christians living in Egypt, therefore it must be a secular country.

Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 09:58 am
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Keith - Saying that because there are a few Jewish people involved with QuAIA means it must not be ant-semitic, is the same as saying that because some women are feminists, means all women are feminists. We know that NOT to be true, don't we...
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:02 am
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McRib - You make a very good point, which is, WHY don't the organizers ban these from participating? THAT is a very good question. Especially when the mission of QuAIA is to oppose Israel, NOT to celebrate GAY PRIDE.
Dee Dee / June 8, 2012 at 10:40 am
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I thought the whole point of Pride was to celebrate Pride, not lob political hand grenades at an issue that has nothing to do *with* Pride. Or are we not going to allow Elves Against Israeli Apartheid to march in the Santa Claus Parade?
Quark replying to a comment from steve / June 8, 2012 at 10:55 am
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These people need to be given a copy of The Trouble With Islam and made to read the chapter where the author goes to Israel-they might get a REAL education on Israel and the Palestine than what they're getting now.
Lauren / June 8, 2012 at 11:50 am
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Happy these attention seekers won't be hijacking Pride. Suck it, hate group.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 01:17 pm
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Dee Dee - LOL - ELVES against Israeli apartheid should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE SANTA CLAUS PARADE, for the same reason QuAIA should NOT BE ALLOWED in the GAY PRIDE PARADE.
keven replying to a comment from Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 01:29 pm
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Being anti-Israel isn't the same as being anti-semitic. What a load of crap. I would suggest you show your source of this libel suggestion, or GTFO.

Signed,

An Anti-Israel Jew.
Za-Munda replying to a comment from Cheryl / June 8, 2012 at 04:42 pm
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I hate when people spout nonsense like that. Do you really think the Toronto (or any other metro area) gays can throw this same parade in certain parts of THIS continent? Just get off your high horse and enjoy the parade. FYI...Israel did have a pride parade in Jerusalem and those boys and girls were besieged not by the A-rabs but rather the Orthodox Jews who felt they were deviling the city. I guess you left out Jerusalem in your list of homophobic places.
Za-Munda replying to a comment from Quark / June 8, 2012 at 04:48 pm
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Gimme a break. I went to see that woman when I was at Rye-High. Her speaking engagement was organized by Hilel and I went to see if I could score some tickets. (Disclosure: I'm a homo raised in a Muslim family). I go up to the table and ask for two tickets. The guy nods and asks me for my student ID. As soon as he saw my name, he got up and came back with this other chick and they told they were out of tickets! I guess Ms. Manji's opinions are only valueable if you share her worldview. Needless to say, I just crashed the damn thing.
Soren replying to a comment from keven / June 8, 2012 at 05:13 pm
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Kev, since Israel is a Jewish state, it's anti-Semitic. The City doesn't sponsor hatey stuff. This is common knowledge you can look up on Wikipedia.
dick rivers / June 8, 2012 at 08:21 pm
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How can anyone condemn the term "Israeli Apartheid"?? That's what it is! Look up "Apartheid"! You should know what it means, your country is also guilty of it.. South Africa actually modelled their apartheid system on our Indian reserve system! That's what it is! Just call it what it is!
MrB. / June 8, 2012 at 09:20 pm
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What! Gays censoring? Israel censoring? The end is near. Guess both groups won't be marching in the straight pride parade. Oh I forgot, gave to be politically corrects
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 09:49 pm
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dick rivers - Apartheid was a system of racial segregation - in other words, it was segregation based on the colour of ones skin.

The majority of Jewish people, though NOT of a single race, are white. Further, Arabs have historically been racially classified as white. So, NO, it is NOT CORRECT to use the term Apartheid when referring to Israel.

The reality is, the main cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and in fact, many conflicts in the world today, is religion. The vast majority of Arabs are Muslim.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 09:59 pm
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dick rivers - AND in fact, if you think about it, the Middle East as a whole is a perfect example of what I am saying, which is that the majority of conflict in the world is due to religion. And this has been the case throughout history. When you hear the phrase "sectarian violence" about the current crisis in Syria, for example, this is referring to people fighting who are part of different sects, or people who follow different systems of belief.
Please Sasha replying to a comment from Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:01 pm
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uh, i think you need to look up the definition of 'apartheid' in the dictionary. it just means segregation of groups of people. it can be racial but it can also be ethnic, cultural, etc.
Za-Munda replying to a comment from Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:25 pm
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You must be slow. Child, apartheid (in Dutch) just means seperate. It doesn't entail anything racial. It's application in South Africa was racial but it's scope is much greater. No-one needs to apologize for what Israel or the Arabs are doing since we live in Toronto and we're dealing with the gays. P.S. Last time I checked, neither the Jews or Muslims are very keen on the homos. Just read up on Lot (revered by both groups).
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:36 pm
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You could say that it just means separate, but then you can apply it to nationalism as well. The world has divided itself into separate countries. The only difference is, "Please Sasha", is that while nationalism is considered an acceptable consequence of human history and population growth, the phrase Israeli Apartheid is being used to DIRECTLY COMPARE TO WHAT HAPPENED IN SOUTH AFRICA and this is a false comparison. Yes, Za-Munda, we Don't live in the Middle East, thankfully, and I don't think it is appropriate to bring this conflict into the GAY PRIDE venue. It should be about CELEBRATING GAY PRIDE, not bashing Israel. If you think this conversation is heated, I shudder to think what might happen during the parade. NO, the group QuAIA should not participate. Oh, and don't forget about the Catholics as well, when we talk about religious groups who are not keen about being gay (at least publicly). Religion has been such a damaging force, in my opinion.
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:45 pm
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Merriam-Webster:

1)racial segregation; specifically : a former policy of segregation and political and economic discrimination against non-European groups in the Republic of South Africa
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:51 pm
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Oxford dictionaries:

"noun
[mass noun] historical
(in South Africa) a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.

segregation on grounds other than race:
sexual apartheid

Adopted as a slogan in the 1948 election by the successful Afrikaner National Party, apartheid extended and institutionalized existing racial segregation. Despite rioting and terrorism at home and isolation abroad from the 1960s onwards, the white regime maintained the apartheid system with only minor relaxation until February 1991"
Sasha / June 8, 2012 at 10:59 pm
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And THE REASON IT IS IMPORTANT TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN conflict about differences in skin colour and conflict in differences about beliefs, is that skin colour is only a surface feature, whereas beliefs establish how we behave and live our lives. For example, as mentioned above, various religious factions do not accept people who are gay. This is a belief which the gay community fights against. And this is a belief which is prevalent and dominant in the belief systems of Arab Muslim countries.
Please Sasha replying to a comment from Sasha / June 9, 2012 at 12:41 am
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not sure why you posted the definition when it confirms my point by including this line: "segregation on grounds other than race."

just admit you didn't know the full meaning of the word and move on..
Sasha / June 9, 2012 at 02:00 am
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"Please Sasha" - No, the point, if you are so blind, is that there are acknowledged definitions of apartheid. Anything beyond that definition must be acknowledged. In that example given, it was "sexual apartheid". This is what happens when Muslim faith countries subjugate women or gay people, aka the definition of gender/sexual apartheid. Those definitions are NOT consistent with Israel.
Sasha replying to a comment from Sasha / June 9, 2012 at 02:05 am
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The reason why I respond to your points is that I seek to challenge them intellectually. As an adversary, asend in the cordial means of challenging adversaries, I wish you all the best. However, of course, I expect to win this debate. Most importantly, debates ARE how we like to settle things in the West. In the Middle East, perhaps, guns and death are more favoured, but we don't do things like that here.
Jakob / June 9, 2012 at 09:02 am
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I stronly smell an http://xkcd.com/386/
dick rivers / June 9, 2012 at 09:27 am
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sasha, i don't know how you expect to win this debate when you've already proven yourself wrong. you said yourself that there are acknowledged definitions of "apartheid" beyond racial and sexual, you are correct. surprisingly, you even acknowledged that nationalism is a form of apartheid, which is also correct. none of this supports your argument at all, if anything, it negates it. "apartheid" is an ugly word, but it's what it is and it's what the west does, we should all acknowledge that. whether or not you believe neocolonialism is good or evil is dependent on your political beliefs and is irrelevant to this particular linguistic debate.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 03:13 am
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dick rivers - If call you an ass, that could mean the slang or that could mean the animal. It is the case that many words have multiple meanings, as does the word apartheid. Now, which do you think I mean? My point is, words have different meanings. The word apartheid when being used with regards to Israel an attempt to falsely equate Israel with what happened in South Africa.

Thinking about the Palestinian situation, something occurred to me. The complaints of the "Palestinian" Muslims, their separation, is absolutely the opposite of their complaints when settling anywhere else. And this is important. If you look at areas in Europe and the US where there are large Muslim settlements, there exist "no-go" areas, where the Muslims force out non-Muslims, including state law enforcement, and have instituted their own Sharia Islamic law. Now, to me, this seeming contradiction is worth examining.

Finally, dick rivers, you clearly have little knowledge of previous expansions of the Muslim empires, including the most recent Ottoman empire, who colonized what was at the time, 2/3 of Christian-held lands.

Colonization, contrary to your opinion, is not solely a "Western" invention. In fact, many areas of the Middle East were "colonized". If you look back at the history of Egypt, for example, you will see nothing of Islam in their rich dynastic legacy.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 03:32 am
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dick rivers - if you want to extend the argument, it could even be said that anywhere on this planet where a human lives, other than the place in Africa from where we evolved, has been colonized... the world has been "peopled".

In modern times, I would rather live in the "colonies" where the culture and institutions respect and protect human rights and the rule of law, than live in those "colonies" that do NOT.
dick rivers / June 10, 2012 at 10:53 am
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once again, you're espousing political beliefs (which everyone is entitled to as long as they're not hurting anyone, keep in mind) to distract from a linguistic debate. is the situation in the west bank the exact same as the south african apartheid? of course not, but comparisons can definitely be made and the same goes for all instances of segregation throughout history. are you offended by the term "canadian holocaust"? because you could make the same senseless argument about that.
as for your little history lesson, i am well aware of the ottoman empire and the colonization of the world in general. where did i claim that colonization was a "western invention"?? if you recall, i said "neocolonialism" is the agenda of the west (or "developed world", whatever you wanna call it) which it is. you clearly believe it's being done with good intentions and you are not alone in that.. i think the majority of canadians would agree with you, but this is irrelevant to the debate at hand and i can't help but think the only reason you keep ranting about it is because you're trying to save face.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 12:20 pm
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dick rivers - colonization and colonialism are very similar concepts and I don't agree with you that West is interested in colonialism at all, nation building perhaps, but not colonialism. And by nation building, I mean supplying aid, financial and otherwise, and attempts to improve areas such as education, infrastructure and civil order.

In actuality, there is A MUCH GREATER INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS INTO THE WEST than anywhere else, which suggests the very opposite of what you are saying.

On the topic of history, it may surprise you to learn that the vast majority of archaeological evidence, excluding that of ancient Egypt, from around the edges of the Mediterranean are in fact Phoenician, Roman and Jewish. These ancient cultural artefacts directly tie the history of the region to modern day "Western" states, including the state of Israel.

For example, I am sure you must have heard of the dead sea scrolls, which were written in Hebrew. It may surprise you to learn that these were discovered in the West Bank.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 12:28 pm
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Of course, that's not to say there isn't a lot of evidence of previous Muslim expansions, because there is... for example, from the period of the Ottoman empire, as mentioned.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm
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Other Muslim expansions were those of the Mamluk Sultanate and the Umayyad Caliphate, of which there is also evidence.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 01:28 pm
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As for the fences that have been, and are being, constructed, these are for the purpose of providing necessary security to the State of Israel. Prior to the construction of the fence, Israeli civilians suffered under constant threat of suicide attacks. Even now, with fences, Israel still has to endure a barrage of rockets from Gaza. As defence and civilian security, it is NOT apartheid.
Wardevil / June 10, 2012 at 05:28 pm
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The fact that they are Queers against Israeli Apartheid, not "Queers for freeing oppressed middle eastern gays in muslim countries" means they are just a front for some islamist group I'm sure...
Cal replying to a comment from Wardevil / June 10, 2012 at 09:16 pm
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There are many groups in Canada and around the world that are against Israeli apartheid, QAIA being just one of them. They merely want Israel to comply with UN resolutions that have condemned their occupation and resettlement of Palestinian land. That does not make them "Islamist".

The current Canadian government is the most pro-Israel government in the world (save perhaps the US) so unfortunately so much of the information we receive about Israel/Palestine is little more than state propaganda.
Sasha / June 10, 2012 at 09:30 pm
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Wardevil - I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU...
Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 12:58 am
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Cal - to WHAT UN RESOLUTIONS ARE YOU REFERRING? There is NO binding legislation requiring Israel to abandon those lands.
Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 01:02 am
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Cal - and MORE IMPORTANTLY, QuAIA supports Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, which is an attempt to force Israel to open it's doors to millions of Muslims. This would destroy the character of the country and it would no longer be a Jewish State. Obviously, this is a pipe dream, as Israel will NEVER agree to this. Therefore, this approach, at best, only seeks to worsen the problem, and in no way works towards peace.
Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 01:17 am
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"The international community has NEVER forced the repatriation of refugees to their former country following a war, nor spearheaded their claims for compensation. It certainly didn’t do either in the case of the 850,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Nor has it ever demanded that a victorious country withdraw from land it conquered in a defensive war."
Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 01:22 am
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"First, in June 1967, there was no state of Palestine. It didn't exist and never had. Its creation, proposed by the UN in 1947, was rejected by the Arab world because it also meant the establishment of a Jewish state alongside.

Second, the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem were in Jordanian hands. Violating solemn agreements, Jordan denied Jews access to their holiest places in eastern Jerusalem. To make matters still worse, they destroyed many of those sites.

Meanwhile, the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian control, with harsh military rule imposed on local residents."
Palestine? / June 11, 2012 at 10:01 am
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I can't seem to find palestine on any map!!! can someone help me find it!
Rover Hendrix / June 11, 2012 at 10:01 am
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^^You know, when you quote someone, it's pointless unless you provide the source as well. Anyway, the occupation of the West Bank is recognized as illegal under international law, everyone knows that.
I find it very interesting that the people who are offended by the term "Israeli Apartheid" take issue with the word "Apartheid" rather than "Israeli". After all, it really is the U.S who is committing apartheid through Israel. Israel rarely ever acts without her master's consent.
Quark replying to a comment from Za-Munda / June 11, 2012 at 11:19 am
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I'm sorry, Za-Munda, but what the frack does your not being able to get tickets to see Ms. Manji way back when have to do with what I mentioned AND the discussion at hand, other than your hatred of her because she questioned the victim status of most Muslims?
Quark replying to a comment from Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 11:37 am
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Okay, Sasha, I was with you until you said this:

'If you look at areas in Europe and the US where there are large Muslim settlements, there exist "no-go" areas, where the Muslims force out non-Muslims, including state law enforcement, and have instituted their own Sharia Islamic law. Now, to me, this seeming contradiction is worth examining.'

I was not aware that there were areas that had Sharia law in the U.S. and Europe, or that there were any that were allowed. This sound close to racism for me for you to be saying that.
give it up replying to a comment from Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm
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you know what else we don't do in this country? censor people's political beliefs.
Sasha replying to a comment from Quark / June 11, 2012 at 01:21 pm
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Quark - You are correct. I misspoke about the no-go zones...those are just in Europe, not in the US.
Sasha replying to a comment from Quark / June 11, 2012 at 01:26 pm
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Quark - and just to clarify, my statement was an error, but it has nothing to do with racism. If we are talking about anything, it could be a comment on religion, or politics, but not race. Having travelled to Israel, to be honest with you, other than clothing, I can't tell the difference between Jewish and Muslim people, on appearance alone. There are light skinned Jewish people (Ashkenazi), Mediterranean/olive skinned Jewish people (Sephardic) and Ethiopian Jewish people. As for the "Arabs" who were pointed out to me, many looked "white" and some had a Mediterranean/olive complexion. So, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with skin colour. And why would it, because I am not talking about how people look, but how people behave towards others.
Sasha replying to a comment from Rover Hendrix / June 11, 2012 at 01:43 pm
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Rover - First of all, YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION about WHAT law says that Israel is required to relinquish it's own territory...

You say "the 'occupation' of the West Bank is recognized as illegal under international law" BUT YOU DO NOT PROVIDE ME WITH ANY ACTUAL LAW, and there can only be two reasons for this: 1) you DON'T KNOW AND/OR 2)THERE IS NO SUCH LAW

And with regards to your comment "it really is the U.S who is committing apartheid through Israel", WELL, ALL THAT TELLS ME IS THAT YOU KNOW VERY LITTLE about the history of the current crisis. FOR EXAMPLE, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE US OPPOSED THE CREATION OF ISRAEL? NO, the US has not been nearly as good an ally to Israel as they should have been.

It was Britain, following the allied victory in WWI, and through the subsequent formation of the British Mandate for Palestine, that provided the initial legal support.
Sasha replying to a comment from Rover Hendrix / June 11, 2012 at 01:53 pm
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Rover - The Germans and the Arab Muslims joined forces in the world wars, and WERE THEN DEFEATED. As a consequence of them LOSING WW1 AND WW2, the allies held control over many areas in the Middle East, not just Israel. The French also played a significant and positive role in the history of the region... People rant on about "western colonialism" as if it is solely a negative thing, but the reality is that a number of very positive things came out of these relationships.
D replying to a comment from Sasha / June 11, 2012 at 03:09 pm
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Since you are obviously very ignorant on this subject, a good place to start educating yourself would be: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Alex / June 12, 2012 at 02:25 pm
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The Pride Parade has always been about political and social activists. It's pretty well achieved its initial goal of gay equality, so now the people who are involved are starting to turn to other causes. It makes sense, eventually it could just morph into the general activist parade and a whole bunch of causes could march. The Israeli Apartheid people are just the first.

Not sure why everyone is getting so upset about it. One religious run country is fighting another religious run country. No matter who wins we will end up with a country run by religion, which will screw everyone over eventually. Of course, if Israel loses I guess it frees up the rest of the mideast to direct all their hate and anger toward the west, so I we should probably cheer for Israel so they can hold them off as long as possible for us. Unless Israel and Iran nuke the whole world in their conflict; in that case screw the lot of them.
Za-Munda replying to a comment from Quark / June 13, 2012 at 09:19 pm
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Ha! I think you might be projecting about the whole "victim" thing. For your information, I don't hate Ms. Manji. I used to love her when she hosted QT on City. I guess she smelled the money 'cause the next thing you know, she's in bed with people who HATE people like her. Sad times.
Za-Munda replying to a comment from Quark / June 13, 2012 at 09:55 pm
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My point is that for some any criticism of Israel equals anti-Semitism. I wonder if criticism of Indonesia is now considered anti-Islamic?

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