City
Crosstown station plan unveiled, but who will build it?
At a community meeting on Monday evening, the TTC and Metrolinx unveiled preliminary designs for Bathurst Station on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT line. The accompanying presentation gives the best visual representation of the scale of the undertaking so far, and offers a glimpse of what Toronto transit users can expect when the project is finally complete. Just a couple days later, however, the Star has learned that Metrolinx might pursue a public-private partnership that would push the TTC to the sidelines.
That's surprising for a number of reasons, but mostly because the TTC likely wouldn't want to operate a line that it didn't design, and it would surely be complicated to tender a deal between a private operator and the TTC on how to handle the movement of riders from one system to another. According to the Star's report, however, Metrolinx believes that based on the worth of the project — currently estimated at $8.2 billion — "it has an obligation to investigate all options."
Where that leaves the station design unveiled on Monday (see video above) remains to be seen, but as of right now, the TTC has been running the show. Would a private sector partner retain the preliminary plans or modify them as they see fit? Metrolinx President Bruce McCuaig insists that a decision can't delay the 2020 competition date or the amount that's been budgeted for the line, but depending on how long it takes to figure this out, that could become an unlikely prospect.
Initial thoughts? Metrolinx hasn't made any decisions yet, but what do you think of the possibility of an Eglinton Crosstown without the TTC?
For more on the current plans for Bathurst Station and the Eglinton Crosstown, check out this slideshow.
Discussion
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What happens when the line goes down for repair/emergencies? Does the TTC run shuttle buses on another company's line? What about expansion?
If they want to save time and money revert to the original Transit City configuration and have it run at grade in the east end.
Also the fare system could become a complete disaster. Will they sell TTC tokens & passes?
What about any future integration with other TTC bus or street car lines? As ideally where there is room, buses should be able to drop off people right inside the station.
For years I've taken both GO transit along with the TTC and have often thought that there isn't enough integration between the two systems. Adding a third system to Toronto, I think is going to add a lot more problems and likely make things more confusing to both regular users and tourists.
I'm all for the Eglinton crosstown, and in twenty years, will probably appreciate it being underground, but does anybody appreciate the short-to-medium term mess a 19km construction site under Eglinton Avenue will create?
I am all for it. P3 brings in projects ahead of schedule and under budget. Screw the overpaid TTC, it's time to make transit efficient without doing the drastic step of complete privatization (aka 407).
If anyone is confused, read on Canada Line in Vancouver. A super successful example of public-private partnership at its finest!
When Rob Ford unilaterally decided to put the whole thing underground, the price tag quadrupled. Now the Province is saying "Boy, this sure is going to be expensive, and we're paying for it..."
As mentioned by someone else above, other cities manage to integrate public and private lines seamlessly(Tokyo being the prime example).
According to the Star article, if Infrastructure Ontario builds this, it'll come in on budget and on time. Imagine that! Of course the TTC is whining about this, they've never been able to complete a major project on time and on budget.
get rid of the streetcars. now.
thx
Maybe we can all ride magic carpets instead, maharaja
In fact, the politicians are idiots to call this an LRT because tons of people probably still think this a streetcar at street level.
It looks good...2020 is still a ways away, but at least they are building towards something.
This is stupid. Just put Eglinton LRT back the way it was originally planned and it would cost a ton less and they could get it done a lot faster. I live at Yonge and Eglinton and I don't care that the street will be ripped up for years so that in the future Toronto will have the transit infrastructure it needs. You know why? Because I'm not a selfish retard.
The only streetcar track-replacement project which has taken years was the 2007-2010 rebuilding of the St. Clair line, but that was due to a lack of coordination of projects by the contractors and the NIMBYs who kept suing the city and delaying completion. Streetcar track, when built properly, can last for up to 40 years. Track built in the 1920s was still being used in the late 1950s and was only replaced in the early 60s. After that track was built very poorly and deteriorated rapidly. Thankfully the TTC is now building track to much higher standards and the track they've been frantically replacing since the early 2000s should last for another 35-40 years.
I'll answer your third point with a question - when have you ever seen a streetcar route moved from one street to another, ever? Let's see what the routing of regular streetcar routes was in 1928:
Beach (Queen): From Neville Park Ave. to Roncesvalles Ave. along Queen st.
King: From Roncesvalles and Bloor to Broadview and Danforth along Roncesvalles, King and
Broadview
Dundas: From Runnymede and Dundas to Old City Hall along Dundas and Bay. Harbord streetcars ran east from Bay along Dundas and Broadview to Danforth Ave.
College: From High Park to Dawes Rd. along Howard Park, Dundas, College, Carlton, Parliament, Gerrard, Coxwell, Main and Danforth.
Spadina: From Spadina and Bloor to Spadina and Lake Shore along Spadina
Bathurst: From Bathurst and St. Clair to Sherbourne and Front along Bathurst and Front
St. Clair: From St. Clair and Caledonia to Mt. Pleasant and Eglinton along St. Clair and Mt. Pleasant
Downtowner, Kingston, Lakeshore and Harbourfront didn't exist.
Now if you look at those routes, and the same lines today on any ride guide you'll find that all of these lines have essentially maintained their current routing for 83 YEARS. In the meantime, many bus routes have been created, changed, and eliminated. What's up with the streetcars? The thing is, all of the streetcar routes are built along corridors where flexibility is not needed, along corridors with constant, heavy ridership. Bus routes along such corridors (like Finch and Eglinton) tend not to change too much either. Really, saying streetcars are confined to their tracks is both evident and a non-issue.
What does this show? That your argument does not stand up to the facts. You'll have to come up with a more convincing one, HasNoBrain!