Walk to end human sex trafficking draws a crowd

But the sex trade is something that had been around forever. We need to regulate prostitution to make it safer for those practicing. Human slavery on the other hand...

I know I for one, will never traffic another human being, now that I have seen a bunch of teenagers holding purple balloons. I think I can feel the world changing already.

Delaware

I'm sure you have an amazing sense of humor and a great set of personality.....but this wasn't exactly the place or subject to shine your humor.....that's my opinion....sorry I had to share it...
www.walk-with-me.org

Legalizing prostitution would make traffickers "business men" and would make it much harder to identify a trafficking victim. Why are people always calling into question numbers ?? What if that was your DAUGHTER, FRIEND, or SISTER. One victim is one too many as far as i'm concerned.

child prostitution and violence towards women have increased in countries where prostitution has been legalized...not a good idea to get that law passed in Canada

Lisa,

There are no sources provided for any of their numbers. That's why we're questioning them.

Nice going with the multiple sock puppet comments, there; next time you might consider varying your posting style a bit and leaving more time between responses so it isn't as obvious.

People are calling numbers into question because KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. If you think ignorance is so great, why not support banning schools, and instead of cops investigating crimes let's just let them pick people at random to throw in jail. Because, hey, the truth doesn't matter; SOME of the ones they arrest will no doubt be guilty of something. Hell, let's just lock up the whole population because everyone commits at least SOME crime from time to time, and one is too many.

And no, child prostitution and "trafficking" do NOT increase in countries where prostitution is decriminalized; that's a vicious lie which is spread by those who want to control the actions of consenting adults. Statistics, please, but you want be able to produce them because it isn't true. I suggest you read this report on the truth about the Swedish "statistics" and so-called "end demand" rhetoric from the Prostitution Licensing Authority of Queensland, Australia: http://www.pla.qld.gov.au/Resources/PLA/reportsPublications/documents/THE%20BAN%20ON%20PURCHASING%20SEX%20IN%20SWEDEN%20-%20THE%20SWEDISH%20MODEL.pdf

I'm going to get a little cold and logical here. It won't be something you're used to, but try and keep up.

1) The "12-14 year-old" figure is based on a discredited study that claimed most sex workers *entered* the industry between 12-14. Through the magic of selective quotation, it because the 'fact' that most sex workers *are* 12-14.

2) 12-14 year-old sex workers doesn't even make sense. Most men wouldn't even be attracted to them. Don't give me some BS about how it's about power and not attraction. Prostitution is about wanting to have sex with a good looking woman.A 12 year-old sex slave is not something that appeals to enough men to justify the kind of numbers you're talking about.

3) Stop making appeals to emotion. What if it was my sister? Then I'd probably murder whoever put her in that situation. But let's make sure we have our facts straight before we go off solving a problem without understanding it.

Why does the age of a victim really matter- a victim is a victim…do their have to be MORE exploited children out there for anyone to start caring?

"end up organizing a bunch of walks that do nothing except make you feel good and 'raise awareness' which is just as useless."

Except when its not so useless....
because of that walk and because of the awareness was raised, 300 more people came this year then last year.
Because of that "useless" walk, we raised enough money to take care of an other 15 Victim that will walk through my organization in the next 2-3 months.
Because of that "useless" walk we received 2 emails about 2 possible cases that are happening here in Ontario,
I'm really sorry that I can't give you exact numbers on how many victims we Possibly going to save,

but if you did go on my website, it clearly says that we worked on 80 cases here in Ontario with in 16 months.

Sorry if its not the number you were looking for.
and again if you are reading more articles from Police officers across Canada, who are actually on front lines and dealing with possible cases, but because they don't have enough man power of financial back up there are hundreds of more cases and victims out there that they can't get to...

so again, really sorry to disappoint and really sorry that these victims couldn't and haven't came to the Canadian Statistic Centers to report them selves as missing or Trafficked (yet) probably because they can't even leave the Motel, or Hotel, or house they are kept, or probably because they don't know how to get to the bus station, or because they don't have money or phone, or because the traffickers told them that if they leave their family will get killed...

But even if they would make it to the Canadian Statistic office so that they can report them self as Human Trafficked, probably there wouldn't be a box to check for them....because the issue is so new, that our Government is still trying to catch up...


but if that didn't convince you, 80% of Child Abused/Molested victims don't come forward till their an Adults, or don't come forward at all.

So is that mean there is no Child Abuse in Canada?
okay so we should just scrap the laws about that too right?
and all the awareness?

Oh wait, no we should ask the 2 years old to come to the police and report that she/he was sexually molested, because we have to have the numbers to prove ....right?

anyways....

so yeah, so "useless"...

If you're helping victims of trafficking then fantastic. Power to you. If you can show me results I may even donate.
I don't see why you need to lie and decieve in order to do it. Make your arguments on established facts and you'll find people like me cheering you on. Fabricate data and I'm going to assume you have another agenda.

I looked through your site and couldn't find any mention of where you helped people. Could you point me in the right direction? It's all in Flash so it's hard to search properly.

You still haven't answered my question of why legalization would be worse than the black market we have right now.

Sorry. My body. I can sell it to anyone I want...
I also get good lulz of seeing cops i know dressed up as hookers... they fail at it miserably lol

Dear Lain D,

the number of cases we worked on is under the "about" link on the website.

I don't see why I need to lie either, which is why I'm not lying. Unfortunately there is no point to make up numbers...
If I were to make up numbers I would say we worked on 2oo cases because that's sounds so much bigger...

Our organization has to report to the Government based on actual cases and files we had, that was reported by the Police...so there isn't really a way for me to make up numbers...nor there is a point to it...

I'm not here to force my 'opinion' on anyone about Human Trafficking or convince anyone that it exist and that it is a huge problem here in our city...let alone our country...

I work with victims and the police on a daily basis. Trust me we are pretty busy unfortunately...

so if I can't give you a data that means I have a different agenda?....what would that be?
Just curious. Because being the "face of human trafficking", working with the victims and police and trying to show up on awareness gatherings, telling people/media/audience on a daily basis how I was held and trafficked, or listening to victims how they were kept and raped, or watching cops feeling helpless because they can't always do everything about it sounds so glamorous to you?

I honestly don't mean to attack you and I truly understand why you need to see numbers, I really do.

but this is an early stage, its like Domestic Violence 50 years ago...no one knew how to deal with it or that it existed...now you see flyers, 1800 numbers, woman shelters, help lines for them all over the place...

because there was a bunch of education and awareness about it for the last 50 years. We are in the same shoes about Human Trafficking.

Please bare with us, please keep your mind open, and please help us to help you understand this better.

That's if you truly want to understand this better.

Thanks

I see resumes being padded by U of T students.

The complete failure of anybody here to even understand my desire for facts is downright depressing (I think Timea gets it, but still hasn't fixed the issue).

Shelia, read what I wrote. Most men are not attracted to 12 year-olds. This is fact. If you want to dispute it, provide some data otherwise you're not worth listening to.


Again and again, I come back to this: what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? So far everything I've seen for replies has been emotional pleas to "think of the children!".
By reacting this way you are discrediting your cause. I will not support something just because it feels right. I want to know that someone understands the situation and has a plan to fix it. I haven't seen either of those things from people involved with this issue.


And finally, still nobody has answered my question: why is keeping prostitution illegal safer for prostitutes than legalization?
If you're going to reply first address that question, and then have links to facts to support your claims. Otherwise I'll ignore you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prostitution#Extent

The issues of human trafficking and child prostitution aside, adult prostitution itself is already legal in Canada (communication for the purposes thereof is not).

I can't believe all the hostility directed at Iain (not "Lain", BTW). He makes very valid points which I'm sure many others agree with but all people can do is resort to personal attacks. Very sad!

@ Sheila

Yes prostitution should be legal or at least decriminalized. How can you argue that with a minimum age requirement clause it would be a bad thing? Men and women will continue to sell their bodies until the end of time whether it is legal or not. Why not make it safer for those doing this? Impossible to stop.

To Mara & I see,

The reason I responded that way is because I am sick and tired of people shouting off there mouth about something they know nothing about. Believe me I am CAPABLE of responding to this person any way I see fit. Why is it so important to see numbers. There should be no numbers. Sit and watch a movie based upon fact in regards to all of this and than talk to me, to all of us. I am speaking for all those people who were and still are sex slaves that cannot fight for themselves. If there are people who want to prostitute there bodies WILLINGLY that number would be pretty small. I am speaking for those who are forced into this industry. Stop fighting for the right of those one or two percent that want to do this to support a habit and fight for those who cannot. Do you really believe that legalizing or decriminalizing prostitution will stop this. All you would be doing in "my opinion" would be putting a legal front on a illegal operation. What is wrong with you people???? Give your head a shake! Why are you people acting this way? This is why people such as us find it so hard to be heard, because there are way too many close minded people out there that refuse to accept the fact it happens when it shouldn't. I don't want to believe it either but it is fact. I want it to stop and stop now. Not just the sex industry but people who are used to this day as slaves. People whose organs are taken from them, just taken and sold. Did any of you know this as well? So please stop denying and refusing this happens and get together to stop this from happening anywhere in the world. This is something that means so much to me. As we are human beings for goodness sake. We are not things. We all have feelings. We all have a heart that aches. My heart aches for those that cannot be heard. Instead of arguing with us about what we believe in join us to end this.

Re BL,

Good I am glad that is all you have to say as I don't want to hear anymore. Excuse me while I get off my high horse here but you have your opinion and I have mine.

It is sad how people such as you and others can come on here and deny that human trafficking is as bad as it is. Yet I try to take a stand against it and defend myself some how my post are no longer allowed to be published. I was not prejudice, racist, harassing or bullying. I was voicing how I feel. But I cannot. Obviously something is wrong here.

Sheila,

I'm going to give this one more shot.

I'd just like to pick out something you wrote, because I think it really illustrates where our differences are:
"It does not matter if it is 1 case or 100 million it should not be happening. Lets just do something to stop it."

The fact is, it does matter. You would use very different strategies if you were dealing with one case or 100 million. What might work for one case wouldn't scale to be effective for 100 million.
Unless we know what kind of numbers we're dealing with, we don't have a hope of coming up with an effective solution.

Similarly, once we come up with something that we think would be effective, we need numbers to measure it and see if it does help, or if it hinders.

For example, it could be that these awareness walks just advertise to potential traffickers how lucrative it can be ("$32 billion? I gotta get in on that!"). I don't think this is true, but we cannot know unless we keep the facts front and centre.

If I really want something fixed, I don't just do something and leave it at that. I ask if that something is fixing the problem, and if there is something else I could do that would do it better.

lain,

Why is it so important to know the amount of people are involved in human trafficking. The number changes on a daily basis. There is no way of knowing the exact amount. If we did than we could come up with a solution to fix it. That is just it. 1 case or 100 million cases should be treated the same way. There are new findings everyday. It has been found the amount of human trafficking in Canada is anywhere from 800 - 2200. The reason they state it like this is because at one point we thought it was at 800 but the numbers keep growing. I wish, I wish there was a way I personally could stop this, but it takes a village to make a change not just one person. But I sure as heck can start. I would love to be able to walk into these underground massage parlors and say what you are doing is illegal. Take the people that are being trafficked and say come with me. But how can I do that? We need more voices to be heard to make the changes in our criminal system to stop this from happening. lain please stop denying what is happening and do something to stop it. Google, look at the info Timea's provided. She is a survivor. If anyone knows what this is all about it would be her. She is living proof. What more do you want?

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a "good looking" prostitute in this city. They look exhausted, possibly strung out, and just plain sad. If you'd said "have sex with someone other than their wife/girlfriend without any hassle," I might have agreed.

Also, it's not like these girls advertise their age. They are made up to look older. Men not finding girls aged 12-14 attractive is a lie. We've all seen men staring at young girls in public, who are clearly young, because they are often with their parents, enough times to know that.

Sheila, reply back is not working for me either.

The commenting system does seem to be weird. I got an email for replies, but they're not showing up here.
I'll reply in the hope Michelle's posts do turn up.
The majority of prostitutes are not street-walkers, they work for agencies and advertise online. It's safer and easier to screen customers. The New Zealand study I referenced in an earlier post has details on that.

Most men would not be attracted to girls that young because most girls that are aren't sexually mature, so unless you're suggesting most men are paedophiles it just doesn't make sense. I do have some data, although in this case the cut-off is 18 since it's from a dating site.
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
If you look at the trend, it looks like women peak in their desirability around 20-22. This matches with my own observations and personal preferences.
Now that is dating, and not just sex but men will seldom date someone they aren't physically attracted to.
There is this study which suggests waist-to-hip ratio is an important factor and mentions that that increases with age.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17173598

I'm not going to add more links because I don't want to get flagged as a spammer.

Very interesting discussion and I'll have to agree with Sheila on that last point.

Quoting from a 'dating site' pretty much discredits all chances at a reasonable discussion.

Yeah, it's not about 'most men' but it is a FACT that forced prostitution numbers are high, even here in Toronto, no matter what source you look at.

I agree that we approach the case differently based on different numbers but it is not 'one' case, and thus a walk to raise awareness on one surrounded mostly by darkness and funds to aid human trafficking survivors was definitely a good move.

@Bosco I don't think quoting from OKCupid should discredit his point - OKCupid's statistics blog is actually pretty fascinating. I do think his point is wrong, however.

@Iain So, for the sake of argument, let's say that most men are NOT attracted to 12-14 year olds. I hope that's a pretty safe bet, but understand that it's a hard one to prove. So let's just assume that they are not. This doesn't mean that the number of women of various ages will correspond 1:1 with the male population's attraction levels.

Having sex with young girls is illegal, and that means the sex traffickers can fetch a higher price from their "customers" - more money is a pretty good incentive to increase numbers. I am not an economist and I know that things get tricky with supply and demand, but it seems like an important point to consider when talking about numbers here.

Also, from what I can tell your point is that when you hear someone talking about a cause and they are spouting numbers which immediately seem false or exaggerated, your gut response is to think they don't know what they're talking about. I think that's how I respond to things, too. But I don't think it discredits the work of the people they're supporting, or the cause in general. It's like liking a band, but hating the fans, you know?

Sex trafficking is a terrible crime, and one that - as someone said earlier - is largely ignored. I think that raising awareness isn't as useless as it can sometimes seem. Other things are required too, of course. Programs that gather accurate information about the problem, and other programs that find ways to stop the problem, but those programs often raise a lot of their money through these raising awareness programs. It's not because of people who didn't know about sex trafficking suddenly learning about it, it's more about reminding people of it and offering them a way to help. Putting it in front of them again.


@sheila I agree with you, and I understand how angry it must be to be constantly faced with this kind of dismissal that seems to ignore the existence of the underlying problem and focuses instead on how the message is being conveyed. But there are a lot of different people in the world, and some of them are more easily reached with numbers than with emotional pleas. It isn't that they don't care, it's just that they process information differently. I think you'll change more minds by finding a way to appeal to those people than by getting angry at them for not seeing the world through your eyes! Although that can certainly be hard when they get condescending like he does at some points above.

great cause, but I cannot forgive the typo on the home made sign in pic # 4

You guys are doing a great job. Keep up the awareness and hard work. You will NEVER win a debate on a comment feed, so my advice is to find the people that WANT to work with you and run as hard and as fast as you can. Don't waste your energy on fighting back to people who have already made up their mind and just want to argue. I say you put that attention, time, energy, and effort into the next walk. You are doing a great job. And in the time we have all taken to read the above arguments, girl after girl after girl is waiting alone, in a prison, with no one to rescue them. Until we stop fighting and just get busy. Come on people.

There is a lot of controversy over the topics of sex trafficking, sex slavery, human trafficking and forced prostitution. Regarding what the definition is, the research methods used to find statistics, what the definition of a victim is, the number of child and adult victims involved, forced vs. unforced sex, how the actual prostitutes themselves feel about it, and legal vs. illegal prostitution.

There is a growing number of well respected researchers, journalists, scientists, professors, that have concluded in their research that the sex trafficking, sex slavery concept is based on emotion, morals, and monetary funding rather than facts, evidence and proof. They state that very few kidnapped, forced against their will, physically abused, raped sex slave prostitutes for profit have been found throughout the world. Their research concludes that women who enter into this type of work do so of their own free will. They also state that there are many anti-prostitution groups who simply do not like the idea of consensual adult prostitution and have distorted the facts in order to push their agenda and receive funding and money into their organizations in the form of donations, grants and to change the laws about prostitution. They state that these anti-prostitution groups use made up child sex trafficking statistics which they have no proof or evidence of in order to gain public acceptance for their cause.

Here are some good websites about sex trafficking:

website:
bebopper76.wordpress.com