City
Proposed route changes on the TTC also problematic
Along with today's announcement regarding a potential 10 cent fare hike, TTC Chair Karen Stintz also revealed a set of recommendations for route changes. "With increased ridership, TTC staff propose, effective March 27, the reallocation of some weekend and/or late night weekday bus service on routes where ridership is extremely low. It is proposed that this service be reallocated to ensure service levels at rush hour and midday, for example, meet the forecast increase in ridership."
Although these are being pawned off as something different than a "cut," reduced service in off-peak hours will no doubt be a major headache for those who rely on the routes listed below. Numerous buses will no longer offer service outside of peak hours and after 10 p.m. every day of the week. Also problematic is possibility that the TTC doesn't have enough vehicles to reallocate all of these losses to peak service hours (when most of the fleet is already in service).
The fare hike is certainly the big story today, but the cut/shifts are far more significant than the short shrift Ford and Stintz's statements might have one believe.
Here they are (in alphabetical order).
- 5 Avenue Rd - No service after 7:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 61 Avenue Rd North - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 6 Bay - No service after 10:00 p.m., every day.
- 9 Bellamy - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 8 Broadview - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays and holidays.
- 120 Calvington - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday to Saturday. No service on Sundays and holidays.
- 20 Cliffside - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 42 Cummer - No service east of Kennedy Road after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service east of Kennedy Road on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 127 Davenport - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 105 Dufferin North - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 26 Dupont - No service after 10:00 p.m., every day.
- 32 Eglinton West - No 32D (Eglinton West Stn-Jane & Emmett) service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday. No 32D (Eglinton West Stn-Jane & Emmett) service after 7:00 p.m. on Sundays and holidays. No 32A (Eglinton Stn-Renforth & Skymark) service west of Renforth on Saturdays.
- 15 Evans - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 33 Forest Hill - No service after 7:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 135 Gerrard - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 14 Glencairn - No service after 10:00 p.m., every day.
- 122 Graydon Hall - No service after 10:00 p.m., every day.
- 169 Huntingwood - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Saturdays. No service on Sundays and holidays.
- 110 Islington South - No service on Horner Avenue or Browns Line to Long Branch Loop after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 43 Kennedy - No 43B (Kennedy Stn-Scarborough Centre Stn via Progress) service after 7:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday. No 43B (Kennedy Stn-Scarborough Centre Stn via Progress) service on Sundays and holidays.
- 30 Lambton - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 162 Lawrence-Donway - No off peak service. Service to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
- 56 Leaside - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays. No service west of Laird Drive to Eglinton Station Sunday/holiday daytime.
- 51 Leslie - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 59 Maple Leaf - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 130 Middlefield - No service after 10:00 p.m., every day.
- 132 Milner - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 116 Morningside - No 116A/E (Kennedy Stn-UofT Scarborough Express/Conlins) service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No 116A/E (Kennedy Stn-UofT Scarborough Express/Conlins)service on Saturday, Sundays, and holidays.
- 62 Mortimer - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 74 Mt Pleasant - No service after 7:00 p.m., every day.
- 103 Mt Pleasant North - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 72 Pape - No 72A service south of Eastern Avenue to Commissioners and Union Station after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday, September-May. No 72A service south of Eastern Avenue to Commissioners and Union Station after 7:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays, September-May.
- 101 Downsview Park - No service, September-May.
- 167 Pharmacy North - No off peak service. Service to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
- 80 Queensway - No off peak service east of Humber Loop, every day. No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 48 Rathburn - No service after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 73 Royal York - No 73B (Royal York Stn-Eglinton & La Rose) service after 7:00 p.m., every day.
- 76 Royal York South - No 76B (Royal York Stn-Queensway & Grand Ave) service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. No 76B (Royal York Stn-Queensway & Grand Ave) service on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 78 St Andrews - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 86 Scarborough - No off peak 86D (Kennedy Stn-Beechgrove via Lawrence) service. Service on 86D (Kennedy Stn-Beechgrove via Lawrence) to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
- 115 Silver Hills - No off peak service. Service to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
- 60 Steeles West - No off peak service west of Martin Grove to Highway 27. Service west of Martin Grove to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
- 124 Sunnybrook - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 55 Warren Park - No service after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 94 Wellesley - No service west of Wellesley Station after 10:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 112 West Mall - No 112C (Kipling Stn-Disco Rd) service north of Eglinton Avenue after 10:00 p.m., Saturdays. No 112C (Kipling Stn-Disco Rd) service north of Eglinton Avenue after 7:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays.
- 98 Willowdale-Senlac - No service after 10:00 p.m., Monday-Saturday. No service after 7:00 p.m., Sundays and holidays. No service east of Sheppard-Yonge Station, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays.
- 96 Wilson - No 96C/F off peak service to Tandridge Crescent or Thistle Down Boulevard. Service on 96C (York Mills Stn-Tandridge & Thistle Down via Albion) to Tandridge Crescent or Thistle Down Boulevard to operate Monday-Friday morning and afternoon peak only.
Photo by tanjatiziana in the blogTO Flickr pool.
Discussion
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They are basically telling people to not leave their neighbourhoods or to come home before 10, this is like making curfews for people who don't have a car.
This will no doubt make women commuting alone at night feel so much more secure."
Repeated for truth.
I guess the TTC needs more pocket lining. I hear cash is great for that.
In what world does it make economic sense to waste a bus on a route that transports less than 12 people an hour?
I guess I learned my lesson. Find a faster way home... lose your closest way home forever.
Also, if the goal is to eliminate routes with low ridership should the sheppard subway line be on this list? Ford's lack of logic is mind blowing!
And no cuts to streetcar service, even though the 502 and 503 aren't used that heavily. He clearly hates the downtown. And North York. And Scarborough. And Etobicoke. Pretty much selective cut-backs across the entire city. I dunno, could it be that these cuts...are based on actual ridership?
Yes, I know, I know, because I'm not frothing at the mouth against Ford I'm sucking his cock. Back to reading Spacing kiddies...
One, Rob Ford does not run the TTC (I cannot believe I am defending Rob Ford).
Two, "And no cuts to streetcar service, even though the 502 and 503 aren't used that heavily." Uh...do you expect them to reallocate a streetcar to a bus route? Just how pray tell would that work?
We can rant on Ford this or Ford that but that simple question affects all of us who use the TTC (I’m a 10x per week rider). If we spend money running nearly empty busses (they are mostly talking about routes with less than 12 riders per hour), that’s less money ensuring a full bus is serviced properly or that another bus/train/streetcar is following closely behind to meet demand on a busy route.
I certainly have sympathy for the shift worker trying to get to/from a night shift who relies on one of the routes now potentially chopped – it certainly is not an easy decision - but running nearly empty busses costs money. David Gunn (who ran the TTC when it was generally regarded as something to be proud of) penned a Toronto Star article in the Spring on this very topic, here’s a quotation and the link below:
“In response to the city’s official plan, a “ridership growth strategy” was adopted: marginal bus services were added; services that did not meet the economic standards of 1999 were approved; hundreds of new employees were hired; the bus fleet expanded; an additional bus garage was built; cost recovery dropped.
In 10 years, the operating subsidy rose from $112 million to $442 million.
Capital priorities also changed. Previously, the state-of-good-repair capital budget was the first priority. That’s the budget necessary to replace all of the system’s capital, including equipment, track and other facilities, necessary for the existing operation. Now, one of the largest expansions in history, Transit City, has priority.”
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/805715--ambition-imperils-our-overextended-transit-system
There are alternate routes that can be used to get you to the same destination.
As stated above:
With increased ridership, TTC staff propose, effective March 27, the reallocation of some weekend and/or late night weekday bus service on routes where ridership is extremely low. It is proposed that this service be reallocated to ensure service levels at rush hour and midday, for example, meet the forecast increase in ridership.
Now, if you do not want a fare increase, just how is the TTC supposed to meet higher demand for services?
Moreover, once again I ask in what world does it make sense to run buses on routes that carry 12 people or less an hour? As of February 1, 2011 the TTC would gross at best $37.20 now subtract the cost of gas, wages, and whatever other costs the TTC has to maintain those buses and tell me in what world it makes any sense to run them at those times.
If this was france, paris would be burning right now lo
And the real issue with the recent changes to the TTC, once again, is the TTC workers union. You can all blame the face man all you want - and to some degree, he is responsible - but the real issue is the number of people that the TTC employs (too many), their wages (too high), their pension plan (too comfy) and the absolute refusal to change any of the above.
Take a trip down to NYC someday and see how much of their system is automated...some pretty huge cost savings right there, but it will never happen as long as the TTC workers union is entrenched as it is.
Are you dim? You can't use the Stop Request program if there's no bus to get on in the first place.
The TTC is not a business but, it does need to cover its expenses. If they are not going to get anymore government funding, and people do not want to see a fare hike greater than the 10¢ one already proposed, just how is the TTC going to be able to meet its costs?
And it's disturbing how he's simultaneously cutting the costs of driving in the city, by eliminating the vehicle registration tax, and making it more expensive to take transit. Apparently the people who take transit can afford to pay more, but drivers can't. That sounds fair.
Even for-profit businesses understand that not every aspect of their business is going to make as much money as they like. I've worked in retail where some months they LOSE money due to high rent and survive by making more money the rest of the year to cover that loss.
It's called find efficiencies where you can while maintaining at least a minimum of service. Where that minimum isn't enough, cover the losses with the profits made in more successful areas. Sometimes that means improving efficiency in those already successful areas.
You don't see retailers throwing their hands up and saying "we give up, we're closing our doors during the month of March because we don't make enough money!"
That would be poor business sense because doing shit like that has a tendency to piss your clients off who use your businesses during that month and find alternatives.
Yes, but the understanding is that they will be making money in the long-run. It is very unlikely these routes will make money for the foreseeable future.
"I've worked in retail where some months they LOSE money due to high rent and survive by making more money the rest of the year to cover that loss."
The thing is though, these routes will never make any money. It is not as if they took a one month sample and said to themselves, "oh okay, we are going to shut these routes down." These routes all have traditionally chronically low ridership levels.
How is the TTC supposed to make this money back without additional funding or fare increases?
"It's called find efficiencies where you can while maintaining at least a minimum of service. Where that minimum isn't enough, cover the losses with the profits made in more successful areas."
They cannot cover them with the profits from more successful areas because the needs of those areas are not currently met (nor will be in the future if the TTC continues along the same path with ridership levels on these routes expected to increase) because they are using the resources that they could be on those routes for these albatrosses.
It’s not that clear or that easy – since it is about public transit at any cost can I get a personal bus? Or is two people OK? They are mainly looking at routes that have less than 12 riders per hour. If that is true, that’s pretty teeny ridership and spending money like that has a consequence.
In the David Gunn article I referenced in my previous post, he noted that the cost recovery was 85 cents in 2000, meaning that it took 15 cents of subsidy per dollar of expenditure to run the TTC – the 85 coming from riders. We’re now (2009) at 67 cent cost recovery, requiring 33 cents of subsidy and climbing. One of the reasons we have so many breakdowns and crappy service is the priority has changed from efficiently running what we can reasonably afford to expansion at all cost with maintenance a much lower priority.
I would add that many of the bus routes added over the last decade were added with considerable political meddling – less to do with ridership and more to do with a councillor's political gain.
As much as I like to bash the TTC, and they often deserve it, we need to let the TTC live within their budget and run the system and stop having Councillors and TTC Chairs screwing with bus routes.
What will people do...
The number of riders per hour is not a good criterion to evaluate a line.
a) Does somebody know how TTC counts the riders on a given line?
b) Is there any bus route making money right now?
Reducing service and cutting routes will make TTC statistics look good but the social impact in each neighborhood needs to be taken into account. That is why theses decisions should be political.
I don't want a bus to arrive on a platform, park for 2 minutes, and then leave. I'd like a mandatory 5 - 10 minute wait. This way, there is time for the passenger to actually get on the bus, for the bus driver to take a breather, and breather room for when buses are running behind or ahead of schedule to readjust.
I'd like public announcements for when streetcars and buses arrive to the station, so if I'm exiting the subway and I hear the announcement, I know how much time I've got before the bus or streetcar leaves the station.
I'd like buses or street car routes that run along Bathurst Street to stop at Bathurst Station, St. Clair West Station, Eglinton West Station, and all the other subway stations that are close to Bathurst. Between 6:15pm and 6:30pm every workday, there will be at least 2 Bathurst buses back to back. The first one is always full, the second one is always empty.
Stop at the stations and fix your routes.
These simple solutions don't cost the TTC much. There are a lot of easy common-sense answers. Cutting routes might help, but fundamentally, the TTC has an attitude of irresponsibility and unreliability, and no amount of money thrown at the TTC will fix this.
I don't want a bus to arrive on a platform, park for 2 minutes, and then leave. I'd like a mandatory 5 - 10 minute wait. This way, there is time for the passenger to actually get on the bus, for the bus driver to take a breather, and breather room for when buses are running behind or ahead of schedule to readjust.
I'd like public announcements for when streetcars and buses arrive to the station, so if I'm exiting the subway and I hear the announcement, I know how much time I've got before the bus or streetcar leaves the station.
I'd like buses or street car routes that run along Bathurst Street to stop at Bathurst Station, St. Clair West Station, Eglinton West Station, and all the other subway stations that are close to Bathurst. Between 6:15pm and 6:30pm every workday, there will be at least 2 Bathurst buses back to back. The first one is always full, the second one is always empty.
Stop at the stations and fix your routes.
These simple solutions don't cost the TTC much. There are a lot of easy common-sense answers. Cutting routes might help, but fundamentally, the TTC has an attitude of irresponsibility and unreliability, and no amount of money thrown at the TTC will fix this.
As has been pointed out ad infinitum the routes getting cuts service 12 people or less an hour. Since one has to multiply 12 by 166.67 to get 2 000, I think it is safe to say that 2 000 will not be affected by this change.
What I don't understand still is the inefficient manner in which the TTC is handled. One of the commentators above mentioned having designated waiting times when the bus reaches the end of it's route. This is done in Montreal, and I don't recall ever seeing buses and streetcars following each other piggyback the way I regularly see it here in this city.
I also have to agree with mothballing the Sheppard line for now. If there is money to be saved anywhere, closing that down would be number one for me.
Either way, you'll survive.
Enjoy, darlings.
Pay more and get less. That's Ford's motto. It was the case with Transit city, it's the case with overall service, it'll be the case with everything by the time the next election rolls about.
Miller had his issues, but he at least had vision that extended beyond what's for lunch.
also, the metropass cost went up 12 dollars (15% or so) just last year. Up to $121 a month.
New York City = 30-Day Unlimited Ride MetroCard
Cost: $104, reduced fare $52
Good for unlimited subway and local bus rides until midnight, 30 days from day of first use. This card is protected against loss of theft when purchased at a vending machine with a creditor debit/ATM card.
Montreal =
Regular-fare monthly pass: $ 68.50 x 12
Reduced-fare monthly pass: $ 37 x 12
Vancouver =
Zoned. either $81, $110, or for the equivalent of a "GTA Pass", $151. Plus employers of over 25 people can get bulk discounts.
Chicago = 30-day:
$86
Boston = Monthly LinkPass $59/month
Unlimited travel on Subway plus Local Bus.
Washington DC = Metrobus Weekly Pass $15
Pass is valid for a full week of unlimited travel regionwide on regular Metrobus routes and for $1.50 off the $3.65 fare on express routes.
--
honestly, the TTC is the LEAST subsidized of all of the north american (and probably most of the rest of the world) transit systems. add to that poor sprawly city planning and a bunch of ineffectual mayors/premiers and here we are.
I dunno, given how aggressive he was about the car tax and catering council and stuff, he sure seemed to let himself be walked all over for this one. Did we get a classic Ford Outburst? No, we got Mr Sullen haltingly struggling to read some notes to the camera.
He's incredibly transparent, you can see when he's passionate about something and you can just as easily see when he doesn't give a shit and is forcing it for the cameras. The transit plan youtube video was one of those times, this is another. The man simply doesn't care about transit. He knows he should care, although he can't empathize with transit users he knows there are a lot of them, but he doesn't, and even worse, his advisors are all equally oblivious, at best.
I suspect Nick Kouvalis, one of his primary handlers, and an unemployed auto worker, might even be a bit malevolent. If more people drove he wouldn't be unemployed.
I guess all the people on the empty buses will need to get in line with me soon.
But please come to our school (in which classes go to 9:30 for many and I take the bus... which is full home) and tell me how you enjoy the cold walk from the school to the subway. I am interested to hear what you have to say. Also, if you have to visit a family member at sunnybrooke. I would also like to hear how you enjoy that walk as well.
Everyday there are nurses and visitors and patients on that bus as well as students. 3 years ago they had to increase service to that route adding more "Frequent Service" times, and it is still a slow line.
I have a 15 minute walk home every day because it is quicker for me to take a streetcar to Queen's Quay and Spadina and walk the rest of the way along Queen's Quay than it is for me to wait for the 509 streetcar and I have no problem with walking. Want to know why? It is because my body generates a little thing known as body heat. Moreover, since I have actually spent more than five minutes in this country I know that I should wear clothing that keeps me warm during the winter. Furthermore, I regularly spend over an hour walking around downtown during the winter because it makes more sense for me to do that while checking out stores than to wait on streetcars.
Additionally, you do not have to take a class that ends at 9:30pm. You could easily just drop the course. Yeah that would suck but, life has a tendency to be that way some times. I got a fantastic job offer the other day but the transportation schedule did not work for me so I had to pass it up. Should I write the TTC and have them create a special route just for me?
"Also, if you have to visit a family member at sunnybrooke. I would also like to hear how you enjoy that walk as well."
I love how people continually bring up examples like this in an effort to tug at people's heartstrings in a bid to blind them to the facts. Fact is at the best of times 12 people an hour or less use that bus route on Sundays or holidays so clearly people are primarily using other means of transport to reach Sunnybrook.
The other day I read about this great invention called the taxi. Apparently drivers are willing to drive you wherever you want for a relatively small fee. In other words, you can use public transport to get you close to a 124 Sunnybrook bus stop and take a taxi the rest of the way.
What's that? Johnny is going to be in the hospital for six months and you cannot afford taxis for six months worth of Sundays? Well then, go see Johnny the other six days of the week the bus travels there. I am sure he will be able to handle not seeing for 14% of the days that he is in there.
Should we just have bus routes that go to every single hospital in the city running 24 hours a day seven days a week even though their usage would not warrant doing so?
"Everyday there are nurses and visitors and patients on that bus as well as students. 3 years ago they had to increase service to that route adding more "Frequent Service" times, and it is still a slow line."
Clearly that is not the case on Sundays or holidays. If that route was so vital more than 12 people an hour would travel on it. I hate the way that people continually ignore this very simple truth. As of 2006 the population of the Greater Toronto Area was 5.6 million. Last year the TTC gave 477 million rides. There is no way with numbers like that that anyone could convincingly argue a route that has 12 people or less an hour needs to be operated when they realize that running it requires money that the TTC does not have at this point and time.
Uh...yes I have travelled outside of Canada.
"or know what it's like to be a woman That comment was just ignorant."
No, I do not know what it is like being a woman but that point is so nonsensical that it does not really matter. Should the TTC become a personal taxi service to the millions of women that live in this city just on the off chance that some deviant out there might attack them?
You act as if the TTC is just taking people to sex crime hot spots and dropping them off in front of perverts.
You know what also could protect women? Having a cop escort them to and from everywhere they go but, since that makes absolutely no financial sense, the city does not do that.
Women survived in this city before these routes. I am confident they will be able to survive after them by using alternative means and exercising common sense.
"Public transportation is public... it is not a business".
Are you under the naive impression that the TTC is a Fortune 500 company?
The TTC does not have the usual profit making motive of a business but, the TTC is still required to cover its cost because, unless it does it will not be able to afford to do anything in the long-run.
This is such a simple fact that I am being to think that you are just trolling.
If the TTC cannot afford to employ people, gas, maintenance, etc., just how is it supposed to continue running routes? Are people supposed to work for free? Are gas companies supposed to give them gas for free? We do not use the barter system here so just how is the TTC supposed to be able to do these things without the resources?
Traditionally the TTC has had two primary ways of getting additional funds to cover costs. One, it could ask the government for more money. The government currently has no more money to give the TTC so, unless you are willing to accept a tax hike, that is not an option. Two, the TTC can increase fares. As has been demonstrated by the public's reaction to the proposed 10¢ fare increase doing so will not go down well with TTC riders.
Are you willing to see fares go up to $3.25 or even something ridiculously high like $3.50 just so routes that are used so infrequently that one is forced to question their existence can continue to run?
The TTC by doing what it is doing with these routes is exploring a third option which makes infinitely more sense.
Currently there are many routes that are underserved because the TTC cannot meet demands since their resources are spread too thin. Take downtown for example; many people just forgo using the TTC because of overcrowding of streetcars, buses, and trains. This overcrowding also increases wait times for people since it takes an inordinate amount of time for people to get on and off these vehicles adding an additional disincentive to use the TTC. These problems are only going to be intensified with the expected increase in ridership.
By reallocating its resources to places where supply does not currently meet demand the TTC will be able to bring in more revenue and thus be able to afford to run money losing routes like the ones listed above.
In an ideal world we would have subways running throughout every part of the city however, since the city and the TTC cannot afford to do so we do not. The same principle can be applied to the routes above. When examining the facts the solution to the problem is so simple that one is forced to wonder why it is only being done now.
Is it perhaps because you have a vested interest?
How about, "I used to live at Fisherville and Bathurst (darned near Steeles!) and had to walk to Northview (Finch/Bathurst) every day. No TTC.
I wouldn't use the TTC if it were a choice between that and walking, but with fares approaching $3.50, they are pricing themself out of the market! One more reason not to take it.
However, why, oh why, must the TTC use these gi-hugic, $600,000 buses on these empty routes? Can they not put the rookies on the routes at night, give them a smaller, cheaper bus and let them run with that? Newsflash: many of these routes are empty EXCEPT during rush hour!
I had the misfortune of following the Wellesley 94 bus, westbound from Parliament last night: 3 people on it at 9 pm. Come to think of it, the northbound Sherbourne bus had 3 or 4 people in it, too (hard to tell, the windows were so filthy.)
The TTC sucks over $1B a year in taxpayers dollars. THAT is something to think about it. (Remember, usual suspects, crunch the Capital budget along with the net revenue to arrive at that mind blowing number.)
instead the route should be broken into 3 parts,
1. 7a bathurst station to st clair west station via streetcar service in summer and bus service in winter(to avoid streetcar issues getting up davenport hill)
2. 7b st clair west station to wilson station along bathurst.
this is a heavily congested area during rushhour with those trying to get into the city via 401 onramp/exits, allen rd convenience(eglington/bathurst), and those communting in from the north via those routes to bathurst and southwards into the city..
3. 7c wilson station to steeles avenue. it will be faster for those living north of wilson to take the subway into the city and transfer accordingly than to take a bus that makes very frequent local stops all the way into the city..
4. 310 night bus, would continue its route as it normally does along bathurst, but service in winter would be increased from every 30-45 minutes per bus, to every 15 minutes(to avoid people freezing in colder temperatures when bus service is erratic at best.
*notes:
frequently during rush hour or peak road congestion when buses are not on time or bunched up due to frequent stops, you see buses short turning at specific locations, like:
st clair west, or roselawn, or wilson...
having the bus route broken up like this would eliminate overcrowding coming in all the way from the north.. and you could turn buses around quicker as they dont have far so far to travel..
im sure this logic could be operated on many north/south bus routes that follow the same patterns as well..
just my 2 cents on a badly managed route..
TTC chief general manager Gary Webster has stated that there is going to be a $2.3 billion TTC capital shortfall in the next 10 years for needed equipment and station modifications. Now, you might doubt the exact figure, since it can be argued it is in his best interest to inflate the figure, but, you cannot doubt that the TTC is currently fighting a losing battle when it comes to its finances.
Even if you skew the numbers in the favour of keeping these routes they still do not make much financial sense. Say for the sake of argument that all these routes were losing 12 hours of service a day (which they are clearly not) for every single day of the year and look at the math:
- 12 riders per hour (which is the maximum amount of riders any of these routes have)
- 12 hours a day
- 48 routes
- 365 days
12*12*48*365= 2 522 880 rides
Last year TTC ridership reached 477 million rides. So, even in a scenario where the numbers are severely skewed in the favour of keeping these routes operational at all times, combined they only account for 0.5% of the total rides the TTC gave out last year.
If you were losing money hand over fist and could save $7 million by doing something that would at best affect significantly less than 1% of your patrons would you not do the same?
Picture a hypothetical 51 Leslie rider going out for dinner with some friends on a Friday night. Now normally on nights like this they get back before 10 but once in a while things run long and they're out a bit later. Before the changes they would have been able to take transit every time, knowing that even if they were out until 12 there would still be a bus (albeit an infrequent one) to take them home at the end of night. But now if the night goes long they'll be stranded, so they can't afford to chance it and have to take the car. Even if most of the time they didn't use the late night service, the fact that the service was there was a benefit to them and it made them more likely to use transit.
It may seem like a minor example but scenarios like this are going to play out all over the city. If people can't be sure that the bus they want is running on sundays or evenings, they'll be less likely to rely on it even when it is running. This is going to affect a lot more than just that 1%.
I doubt most people will stop using these routes when they are running because if the need to use them was there before it will still be there after the schedule changes. Yes, some people might decide to drive more often instead, but the fact of the matter is that for most people who use public transit taking the TTC is a better financial option than using a car.
Like I previously stated, the TTC is expecting a $2.3 billion capital shortfall in ten years. If they do not cut costs, get government support (which might very well involve raising taxes), nor find other ways to bring in additional revenue (which is what they are trying to achieve by reallocating these buses to busier routes), how are they going to be able to deal with that?
While there are people who will be getting the short end of the stick as a result of this, the truth is far more people are getting the short end of the stick now because the TTC is wasting its resources on routes with low ridership when it could be allocating them on one's with vastly greater ridership demands.
One of the things that makes Toronto a transit-friendly city in the eyes of tourists and guidebooks and outsiders is not the subway, which is small. It is not, like, say, Portland, the streetcar system, which is woefully in need of modernization. It is not, like, say, Boston, the commuter rail, which is uncoordinated with other transit and infrequent. It is not, like, say Chicago, the cost, which is the most expensive in North America. It is, in the end, the frequency and depth of bus service across the entire city which allows almost all residents the chance to get on a bus without waiting too long for it and thereby tie into the rest of the transit grid with a series of well-designed transfer points. This is not a sexy attribute -- some plodding ancient thrice-rebuilt bus going down some ugly arterial street lined with strip-malls -- but you know what? It works.
There is a tipping point to these matters and I would hate to see Toronto hit that via cuts to off-hours service. Hopefully someone will realize that, by penalizing transit when car owners just got fees reduced, by not being able to afford system expansion, by raising fares that are already too expensive... will realize that something is broken and the TTC needs to be re-structured and re-funded in a manner consistent with other leading transit cities.
Times have changed, as have the bus routes. It's simply just not as safe for a woman, walking solo, to be out late at night. I WISH it were, trust me, but it just ISN'T. I don't see how anyone can completely just disregard that fact.
I understand that cutting back on bus routes is necessary, I do and I respect your opinion. However, can pickup times just be decreased and not eliminated completely?
Pick-up times on those routes were not that frequent in the first place. Making them even more infrequent will not help the situation because their incredibly low ridership numbers will most likely decrease even more. It's not as if those buses can be used on other routes as a result. They will be stuck on the same underused routes they were on before while busy routes do not receive the service they need.
I definitely understand the need for every person in this city to not be in a potentially dangerous situation however, if you are running an organization that is continually losing money, and desperately needa to cover costs, you have to do cut down on the hours of routes that have no hope of being profitable until you can obtain money via other means to extend their hours once again.
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How, exactly, are they going to "take a bus from an under-used middle-of-the-night route" and put it on an "over-burdened rush hour route"?
I mean, it's not like each bus has it's own designated route and time... (or is it? Because if it is, then I think I may have the solution to this city's transit woes...)
For example, my bus route is one that is being chopped. No service on the 30 bus after 10pm. So, those buses that would have normally run after 10 won't be running anymore.
I can easily see how they can save money doing this and then maybe use that money on another route... but they can't take the bus with them.
Is it not true that at rush hour, most of the TTC vehicles are in service?
Clearly, I'm missing something here...
And I'll say it again: you'd see an increase in ridership on the 30 if only anyone could catch the damned thing.
Some people here have mentioned safety as a concern, and I can understand that elimination of local bus service might increase the risk of attacks on women who are now forced to walk further at night. However, a determined and marginally intelligent attacker would likely ride on the bus, find a target, and then when the said target disembarked, they would simply follow them and strike once the bus has sped off. So really I think the effect on public safety would be negligible.
Someone else here also complained that the city was imposing a "curfew" on them by eliminating late-night service on certain routes, despite the fact that you guys have a bunch of 24-hour routes. Can nobody be bothered to walk home from a stop? Is a 15-minute walk really that much of a chore? Or has rent in Toronto reached the point where nobody can afford a cab?