City
TTC unveils new "Rocket" subway trains
The TTC unveiled its brand new, Bombardier-built Rocket subway trains this morning at Downsview Station. Part of the long-term plan to renew the TTC's aging fleet, the new cars are more spacious and accommodate slightly more seats. The TTC estimates that the new trains will increase capacity by about a 120 passengers, which is up 8-10 percent from the current T1 trains.
The most noticeable change among the many -- and the reason they will hold more passengers -- is that the trains are now open-length, which means that a connecting passage allows riders to travel seamlessly from one car to the next (there are six cars in total). In an empty train, one can look straight from one end to the other.
Other key features include red anti-microbial stanchions to hold on to, an easier to access wheelchair area with a blue light on the exterior of the train to mark their locations, an active route map that shows where the train is on the line, an electronic information display system, a passenger alarm intercom, and an emergency evacuation ramp at the front of the train.
The Rocket trains are also said to be more energy efficient, but I've yet to get my hands on specific figures that outline the savings.
13 of these Rocket trains are expected to be running on the system a few months after the new year at a cost of $237.6-million, and the TTC plans to roll out a total of 234 of these new cars between 2010 and 2014.
My first impression is that these subways are pretty slick, and will be much easier for passengers to navigate when they are crowded. And though it might take a little getting used to, the open-length concept could be a real winner -- that is, unless you're trying to get away from some belligerent passenger who will no longer be separated by the closed doors of another car. But, that, of course, is a small price to pay for the increased functionality of the new trains.
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They are probably easily changed (see constant advertising) for any future expansion purposes and I cannot fathom why in Darwin's name you would think that would be an issue for cost savings on a $1.2BN contract..
Get these puppies in service, dammit.
They look like those cloth seats again. I guess there's a reason for still using them? Doesn't make sense to me that that's better than leather/vinyl/etc.
Yeah, that really is too bad. I love watching out the front window once in a while!
Also, regarding, "...unless you're trying to get away from some belligerent passenger who will no longer be separated by the closed doors of another car." On the flip side, the open concept could also allow you to move closer to one of the operators, or to a car that has more people that a crazy person is less likely to mess with you around!
Also, the LED sign on the front that says "Finch" is tiny! I wonder what percentage of the population will actually be able to read that from across a subway platform.
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It continues to be pointless to write FiNCH or whatever on the front of the subway.
Everyone knows the subway goes from one end of the line to the other.
It should read NORTHBOUND YONGE or SOUTHBOUND UNIVERSITY etc.
THAT is useful information.
I still think they should put NORTH/SOUTH UNI/YONGE on the front, though.
Given that, the new trains should have side destination signs by the doors.
Eff this. I'm going to idle my way across Bloor St.
"They are probably easily changed (see constant advertising)"
That's a poor comparison because unlike the advertising these boards don't have a constantly illuminated fluorescent light behind them. Instead, they have a series of bulbs that light up according to which station the train is in (or approaching?), which means there is more complicated wiring and software driving that.
"I cannot fathom why in Darwin's name you would think that would be an issue for cost savings on a $1.2BN contract.. "
I don't care if the trains cost 1.2B or 1.2T - someone, somewhere approved the design of those boards and that person could have been a bit more forward thinking and build in the electrical in such a way that they only needed to replace the front paper bit when the extended line opens and those extra lights begin to light up. They're nice-looking trains and I like the open concept, but there was an opportunity for future-proofing that was missed here. That's unfortunate, and "but they're good enough" isn't a good reason not to point it out.
WAIT A MINUTE
The glass in both in the doors and body appear to be carryover. UNACCEPATBLE!!! L0L
I agree with Chrissy - more holds down the middle for the not-tall would be nice. I try to move in to the train as much as possible to maximize space for everyone, but often find myself without anything to hold on to. And tall people could give two craps if they're blocking the only hold you could possibly reach when they've got multiple options available to them.
That aside, these trains look friggin' fantastic.
Now if we can get the Presto/Open system in place we'd be all set.
I hope this isn't a disaster waiting to happen!
@gr1: Try taking it down a notch, you'll live longer and be happier.
@gr1: Try taking it down a notch, you'll live longer and be happier.
It's why we're seeing those new triangle symbols on the walls: because the door guy will be moved.
No centre bars. Yeah I said that. It's still not too late to place them.
London Underground moves 1.3 billion people a year.
TTC 304 million annually.
They are clearly past their prime and some are sweltering in the summertime without air conditioning. It's not as if the TTC is replacing their entire fleet with these new trains. They're only going on the Y-U-S Line and the T1's (The newer trans operating now with the red wide doors) are going to the Bloor-Danforth Line.
The trains cost $237 million, just over the cost of two stations of a new subway line without any tracks or tunnels.
these new cars look fresh.. I'm not to cool with the 'full train' idea but new cars = better A/C and still the ability to skip cars if one smells like ass or is insanely packed.
one commenter mentioned the fact there's less seating.. Im hoping these cars are a lot more stable and balanced to make standing easier! Anybody can compare the junky old 70's cars to the newer ones on how much more smooth it is to stand in the newer cars.. I get thrown around on the old junk cars if I'm not holding onto a rail.
And now we're getting them. Excellent.
Perhaps now days the committee only concerns on the cosmetic instead of focusing on the core value to improve the overall services of TTC, such as future expansions, station facilities, public toilet installation, increase interchange stations, shorten delays, decrease waiting time and many more. Where is the business operation sense in them? The whole model of operation NEEDS to begin from the drawing board in order to have any slight improvement rather than using band-aids for short term fixes.
I still have zero intention of opting for TTC over my car or bicycle, though.
First, people who are disliking the interior design. The TTC had a mock up of this train a few years ago and riders got to choose the new interior of the train just like our new streetcars; so don't blame the TTC.
Secondly, the maps. They aren't to scale so they're no need for them to accurately show where the stations are positioned. Also, notice how the station names are now angled, you need room for that too. And I add; I'm 27 years old, I lived in WOODBRIDGE for 20 years, I've taken then subway every time I go downtown. How come some of you people need to be told what station is coming up next?? Toronto has 2 1/2 subway lines. Is it that hard to remember that St. George is after Spadina and Museum is after St. George and Queens Park is after Museum, etc?? Especially if you "RIDE IT EVERYDAY"??? I recently came back from New York and I found that the digital maps were much more confusing than the actual drawn and scaled ones; so you know get your head out of your ass and read a map if you want to know where you're going.
Alot of people can't get it through their head that the Toronto Subway opened in 1954; The London underground started in 1863!!! And the New York Subway started in 1904! These cities were the size of what Toronto is NOW when these subways opened, it is not fair to compare these systems to Toronto where they are SO far ahead of the game.
I understand that the TTC is good for alot of LOLs but this is a pivotal growing time for Toronto; and we're going to experience alot of growing pains through it. So be prepared. If not, move to your precious London, Paris, New York etc, then realized that you're truly spoiled sometimes in Toronto.
The Transit Toronto Blog has a picture of the mock up and if it's anything like the final design, it should be something like this:
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5511-02.jpg
This is what I was thinking about, its the exact system the trains in NY use:
http://infosthetics.com/archives/subway_led_screen.jpg
I'm hoping these were at least considered, especially with the new subway extensions coming up and any more for the future.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3482/3950269874_22dd1ab362.jpg
keep in mind the original moch-up indeed had them.
see below:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/r-flores/2721710423/in/set-72157606481164578/lightbox/
http://infosthetics.com/archives/2009/11/new_york_city_subway_dynamic_led_signage.html
i hope im not seening cloth seats
also I hope they don't srping another fare hike when they start running these trains...
Also, it's hard to gauge how high those microbial things are. I hope they hang low enough for me to grab...
The problem I found in New York is that say for example, you're on a 2 train, but you're on a subway train that was originally intended for the 5 line, that train will have the map showing all the 5 line stops, thus creating a whole lot of confusion.
And sure, at the end of the day this is a pretty minor issue. But it's symptomatic of the TTC's general sloppiness and inability to learn.
@J FWIW, I sympathize with your views.
I'm not being whiny, this is something that happens to young women like me all the time. I'm seriously going to save up for a car before these new trains come in.
But my number one complaint is there is no central bar inside the train. You need to do be able to do chinups on those, thats a tradition.
Other than that, they look good. I love the open-car thing.
But yes, I love this. Can't wait til next year. These babies remind me of Asia. Only thing I don't like are the cloth seats, which are going to be dirt just like the ones now.
The TTC also assumes a "best case scenario" when suggesting 10% more riders. It forgets that people will not move into the middle of the train. Those plexiglas barriers by each door, which are unique to just the TTC, are being carried over into this model. Those serve no purpose except to be vertical hammocks for lazy people. The seat configuration will also not support people flowing into the middle of the train. The TTC voted against seats, like rows, all alligned on the sides because they dont want trains that are 'cattle cars'. So a year from now you will still be left waiting on a southbound platform at Eglinton at 8am because people will not move into the middle of the train
The cost itself was over inflated because we didnt outsource, thanks to Moscoe and his racism towards Chinese labour;
http://www.mikedelgrande.ca/news/levy_apr03_08.htm
I know that your comment is a reasonable objection, but if you believe someone is genuinely stalking you, especially after you have moved, hit the passenger alarm and let our police deal with that person. You will be helping yourself and any further women that may be threatened by this person while riding on the TTC.
Many women have already identified the benefit of being able to avoid a problem person by switching cars, but it is also a benefit to be able to switch cars if there is any other disturbances such as aggressive panhandlers, screaming kids, adults or ipods, as well as people who have soiled themselves or smell like they have. Even better will be when the A/C breaks and the whole train is a sweatbox in the summer.
Then there will be the whole new dimension of pushing and shoving down the entire length of a train that will occur as someone tries to find a space because they couldn't be bothered to walk down the platform when they got on, or because that is where the exit is at their stop and they don't want to wait to walk there on the platform.
Any other problem riders will certainly enjoy being able to run down the length of the entire train causing trouble and be able to get away vs. being contained in a single car. I imagine this will be a whole new headache for ttc constables. What happens if there is a more serious incident like a passenger with a weapon or a fire?
There is also no way that those fancy hinge cars with their connections are cheaper to purchase or service than a regular car or have better reliability. This will only result in more costs and downtime. I wonder what the costs will be for training the operators and maintenance crews on all this new equipment will be too? As well, now when there is something like a broken door or 'personal foul' the ttc can just take the single car out of service. Instead it looks like the whole train will be taken out of service. This would mean a lot more whole trains taken out of service for unexpected issues which equals less capacity. With the current cars, they can be made into a train in almost any order. These new ones don't appear to be able to, so this will also mean more time to replace a car on a train when need be. It doesn't look like you can hook a new car up to an old one if you need to either.
For the extra 10% of capacity that the new trains gain by stuffing passengers in the gaps between cars, why can't the ttc just run 10% more trains? New cars to replace old ones are necessary, and useful new innovations should be incorporated, but this new continuous design is just one step away from, "why don't we just put moving sidewalks through all the subway tunnels?". Name a single major subway network in the world that has adopted this design.
Canada is like it's only some designated place for the third-world and refugees to go to or be dumped, and it's like Canada is a designated gasoline and car place and a place where people are supposed to just work like crazy and be TAXED for the gov't and big corporations based here and abroad (hence the overworked and unrelaxed society and culture here). Some are actually feeling that Canada still really is some colony!
I used TTC regularily when I lived in Toronto for over 20 years before moving out to Vancouver. We love the roomier train cars on our Canada Line light rail between Vancouver airport and downtown.
Does the design of the new cars provide designated areas for bikes? Presumably only during off-peak hours.
I think the people worried about open trains are going to find themselves pleasantly surprised when they get to experience them.
The ceiling height hand grabs are way to high and sparse. Think about it, rush hour, sardine cramped, the people in the middle have no center floor hand rails to grab on to nor can they reach up that high. Imagine having to hold your arm that high for 1/2 hr, with the other hand full of bags, briefcase, shopping etc.
The seats look like fabric. If yes, that tells me these designers never use the subways as their mode of transportation. Hello.....people expel bodily fluids on seats or spill drinks and no one steam cleans them. The dried guck is disgusting. Are there less seats now?
I understand that the center floor poles are to allow for wheelchair access, but lets face it, to make all the cars this way is just so wrong. One car, closest to the wheelchair ramp could be designated WC friendly and the rest of the cars should accommodate mass rush hour traffic. It's not fair for so many to suffer for a once in a while handicap use. Their could be markings on the floor and on the car so as to recognize the car.
I really don't think that they thought this all the way thru......but then again, they don't ride the subways in rush hours do they?
Here in HK they have open car subways, they are amazing and as a female they make me feel less isolated from other passengers late at night!
AS for what London has vs. what Toronto has, big deal. Cities are different from each other and have different needs; let Toronto have it's issues dealt with in its way rather than with how London doses it.
@Darren: Still spewing the same bullshit you spew on Torontoist and at <i>The Globe & Mail</i>'s forum? As I said above to Torontonian, so I'm saying to you. Read it again.
@Missy : This is a human right that handicapped people deserve, and have been asking for (along with elevator access to subway stations and easier access to streetcars.) Please try to have an open mind about this, and realize that if you were not able to walk tomorrow and needed a wheelchair, you'll be glad for the feature that you derided.