Will Marilyn's curves save Mississauga?

It's kind of sad when downtown self-appointed "elites" ignore the rest of the GTA like the plague, especially when this area (and places like Brampton) is most important to the future of growth and transit in the area.

These towers will be a fantastic addition to Mississauga. But driving down Hwy 10 many times, it's time the city focused on moving people.

I've always said that subway transit should have been expanded from Kipling to Square One, the distance between both points is less than the current Spadina subway extension into Vaughan.

And for those that think it wouldn't generate much traffic you are wrong. Going along Dundas, with a key stop at Dundas and Hwy 10, and later north at the GO station, this extension would bring more people out of their cars.

And, that area around the mall is quickly becoming a condo city. The city, Brampton, and the Region of Peel, should also look into a light-rail line going north and south along Hwy 10.

Mississauga isn't a plague, it grows like a cancer. The city offers no services, it has no culture, no core, nothing. The city has been run by the same woman for 20 years so no one can say the "city" lacks a unified vision. Mississauga turned down subway extension in the 1980s because the cost would be too high. Yea, taxes are slightly lower, but the cost of living is high when you have to drive everywhere.

The fact that Hazel now realizes that density is an issue is 15 years too late. There is no transit around transit city. And they can't build light-rail transit on Hurontario because the building go al the way to the street.

So while you're right to say there is big growth is coming from Mississauga and Brampton, it's just not smart growth. Sorry for the rant, I just hate this place.

Yea, I've lived in Mississauga my entire life, and unless you own a car, it is basically impossible to get anywhere in the city in a reasonable time. And yet a bus ride costs $3 just like in TO, and the service is fucking awful. I cannot tell you how grateful I would have been if there would be a Subway in Square One. It probably would have enticed me to stay at home instead of move out at 18 to attend school without taking the fucking GO train into Toronto every morning, subsequently forcing me to wake up every morning at 6am.

God Mississauga sucks. It's House-ville. Nothing more.

I am not sure why people think Toronto is a role model city compared to Mississauga.
People throw around ideas like density and pedestrian-driven and transit-oriented as primary goals as if someone's quality-of-life is just so outstanding in Toronto that it is a boggle as to why anyone would live anywhere else.
Road traffic? - mississauga car road traffic may have heavy times but toronto car traffic is absolutely crushingly slow, dangerous, and miserable to figure out.
Pedestrian awesomeness in Toronto? wow its great to walk to the local starbucks or that neat-o little gallery that closes at 5 and is only open 4 days a week and is full of pretentious locals during the dead of winter. Ya its wonderful to see street after street of pawn shops, condo sales offices, and vintage clothes shops. Ya my one trip a year to the harbourfront, art gallery, science centre, and beach make it worthwhile to live in the City - hah.
Diverse and exciting life? Ya, going to overrun patios, pretentious cafes, club/bar lineups, and filthy & unkept & homeless-filled downtown parks is waaay better than going to the beautiful sprawling parklands of Mississauga or your own **backyard**.
Better people and neighborhoods? Recent studies show that there is no such thing as a Toronto neighborhhod. Graduate student polls found that less than 1 in 10 of people actually knew the full names of every member person in the household on 3 sides of them on a street. Less than 1 in 5 had any idea what more than 2 people within 2 units of them actually did for a living. Less than 1 in 5 actually have a 5-minutes conversation with any neighbor more than once a week. I have never yet met a new young family (and i work with 1000s) who bought a house with backyard out of the city say they would ever move their family back into the city. I find such a lack of personableness and warmth in any city stranger that you're not buying something from. Suburban neighbors actually chat, despite how shallow it may be.
I am trying to visualize the ideal downtown life and find it to be a total fiction (what? - a mid day stroll down Queen West or the Beach Promenade a couple times a year because you're un-/under-employed?). I am trying to visualize a downtown *happy* (content, not drunk and disorderly), sophisticated, personable, good-work ethic-filled, drama-free lifestyle -and i cannot.
Comparably fast-efficient, comfortable transit? (yah that works on car-stuffed roads or on the 3 tiny thin transit subways with face-smushing tightness).
Toronto has a lot to be proud of compared to other non-european cities with its integrated ethnic population, reasonably clean and crime-free streets, and array of occasional attractions. But the full downtown lifestyle is actually 'very attractive' to a very, very thin sliver of people -- and isn't mind-bending happiness or full-life contentness, but just a 'lifestyle'.
Mississauga can do it all. Be dense. Be friendly to actually-flowing traffic. Allow many areas of healthy and friendly attraction. They balanced their budget and have plenty of cash left over for cheap/free fabulous local parks/fields/rinks. Community centers in mississauga are actually for families and exercise-seeking individuals not druggies, prostitutes, and the damaged-goods population.
Toronto can be exciting yes - but so is reality tv and then you grow up past 21. --and by the way, i live in toronto and do the metrosxl lifestyle and take it for its short-term shallowness - for now.

Mississauga goddamn!

And the usual 'us versus them' bashing begins. When will the downtown snobs accept the fact that not everyone thinks like them? My youthful years were spent from a farm near Bolton, to the mean streets of Vancouver, then to a North York condo: I must say my fondest memories are from the farm, not the condo. I say this as someone who lives and works in downtown Toronto, but I still find myself DRIVING to Sherway Gardens (and the big box stores across the street!), Vaughan Mills and the Eglinton Power Center. What's so freakin' great about the over-priced boutiques along Queen St. or in the Beaches? You can find junk at Valu Village, too. Isn't it odd how the social-revisionists are all about change, as long as it is THEIR kind of change?
Anyway, doesn't matter: this too shall pass. In 20 years, a new generation of Ry-hi urban studies punks will assert their latest vision of urban living on the rest of us. You know what, life goes on.

Mississauga fits your suburban needs fine (though, my idea of a suburb includes trees), but the kind of people that these buildings are trying to attract require a bit more... substance.

You said it j-rock. It's too late. The bordering GTA cities to Toronto, with Mississauga maybe being the top worst case, are catastrophes, un-innovative and are products of greed. Too much undeserving praise has been given to Mayor Hazel (she's been mayor for more than 30 years there) and too much praise for a "city" that should instead have been criticized and mocked for the past decades. It's all homes and sprawl without infrastructure for that, no culture, no real resources, no jobs or zones for that, nothing, and too many people and too much promotion for new residents and IMMIGRANTS - as if there's no people there. And yes, 30+ years after, you still need a car to live there. A growing number say that it's basically a city made to boost auto and gasoline sales.

Around 700,000 people in Mississauga, but multiply that by 1 to 2 and that is how many cars you have going around Mississauga all day long (all day rush hour!). Over-reliance on the car, and you need a car just to pick up milk at the store. For years and years Mississauga kept on boasting about being "debt free," but at the same time, no money was being collected from the many developers to go towards city infrastructure abind transit (possible LRTs/or its own subway). Its land area mass is so great, but it's completely built-up and land wasted, not even any farms exist anymore in the north and west Mississauga (which could have easily been saved had they planned wisely and more densely. The word now is that Mississauga will now pay harsh lls in the next years because all of the overbuilding and sprawl will naturally get old, which means there will be so much of whatever infrastructure to repair and maintain. It won't be pretty.

I think some of you folks in Mississauga need to switch to decaf; your hostility and broad-brush stereotypes of Toronto are both tiresome and pointless.

And to the folks bitching about traffic downtown, how much of of it is from the 905 belt? Unless you take the GO train or other forms of public transit, your complaints are ironic and hypocritical.

@Martin:

Great comment Martin! I think you've hit the name on the head (and it certainly mirrors my experience living in East York close to the Danforth). Unfortunately to the Toronto-haters clogging the comments, facts are irrelevant.

The mayor is so out of touch and residents have become complacent by blindly re-electing her. Two gimmicky condos built mainly for sky line envy will not save Mississauga, transit expansion will. There's no reasonable way to get around the city without owning a car. There's close to a million people there and people still can't catch a frequent bus after 8pm! There are even high density areas where buses still stop running at 6pm on the weekends. Not to mention most bus schedules are never in sync with Go transit. You have to get to a Go station an hour earlier to make sure you won't miss your train, and you're sh*t out of luck if your bus' departure time is conveniently scheduled as the same time as your train's arrival time.

How can the Mayor continuously encourage transit use if the service doesn't reflect the city's growth? Residents drive because it beats waiting 30 min to take 2 buses or 3 to get anywhere. Your total travel time one-way within the city should never be anywhere near 1h30min. Mississauga needs a subway line from Kipling to Square One, increased bus service and a rapid transit line. Only then, will it becoming an enticing and affordable location for businesses and young professionals.

it dont know if i like this building so much. I mean, it's beautiful - a lot better than much of what Toronto has, but there where so many 'out there' and unique designs submitted. Does the world really need another Turning Torso?

and another thing...
Most of the 416ers that constantly make snotty comments about 905ers USe to be 905ers! Just because you change your zip code doesnt make you "hip"

Wow, verbal diarrhea or what? At least 90% of those drunk and disorderly people downtown that you speak of are either 905ers or from out of town. Seems they all think they're in Vegas when they're downtown. And those overrun patios and pretentious cafes? Again, 905ers and the like living it large downtown, because their own pathetic "city" has ZERO culture (although everyone in Mississauga seems to think Square One counts as culture!)
Please do us a favour and stay at home!

Wow. It's funny how the article started with The disclaimer "If you live downtown, it is easy to dismiss the suburbs" and yet every comment is an immature 416 vs 905 rant.

I grew up happily in Mississauga where i went to a nice school within walking distance to my home with good facilities for it's students and enjoyed relatively trouble free existance. I rode my bike everywhere knew every neighbour on my street and enjoyed the multitude of parks, playgrounds and forests in my community.

I have now lived in downtown TO for 5 years where i have a 20 minute subway commute to work, shop at the st lawrence market for groceries go to the beach on weekends and enjoy all urban life has to offer.

The point is that i recognize the up side to both lifestyles but more importantly i understand that the future of our suburbs will be key to development of Toronto. The time will likely come when i will have a family and want to provide for them the same childhood that i enjoyed. Is it possible in toronto? Sure but For at least double the cost. Instead of bashing what doesn't appeal to you at the moment maybe some of you should consider that improving the suburbs now may be in your best intereat in 10 years.

Badbhoy and Martin, you make a very valid and wise points. A lot of people on post don't realize that in the near future if we don't all work together there will be many problems both cities will face. Take for example. Half of Toronto is shutting down for this G20 nonsense and what are people to do when they depend on the bus/ train routes? Hope into their imaginary cars?...Yes, Mississauga is a "car city" but it too will have to adjust that once it becomes over populated and people have to resort to new measures like buses and trains.

For now living in Mississauga with a cars is what works for people there and that's the lifestyle that they have chosen. You don't see people living in Mississauga complaining that their car and house is too big maybe they should move to Toronto to take a bus to work and live in a condo. It's their choice and that's what they wanted to do and same goes for people who live in downtown Toronto. They have chosen to live in that city and taken public transit for whatever reason it maybe. People need to respect and understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and that it doesn't make it wrong to rely on public transit nor does it make it right to rely on a car. However both options have their flaws and eventually in time people will find out what they are and what they can do about it. For all the people that feel that Mississauga transit "sucks" it's probably like that for one simple reason, not very many people use it. The same can be said for Toronto, you'd think with the amount of people living in Toronto they would have a better transit system, one that is up-to-date and can compete with the bigger cities of the world. Tax money is being wasted, I'm positive security for the G20 could have been toned down about 700 notches and the money could have been shifted into improving Toronto or Mississauga transit.

To all the 416 vs 905 bashing, people need to grow up and realize we are neighbours and should act that way with respect for others and what each individual city has to offer. One maybe have more distinct features than others and that's the beauty of cities and their make up.

Please be kind and you all have a wonderful weekend :)

Mississauga would likely improve their transit if more people took it. So while people complain that the city has a bogus transit system, its residents and TO neighbours to need to make the change happen and take the g-damn bus already! Why should the city spend the money first to introduce a subway if its residents will still likely drive? Both cities are full of lazy complainers. Just be greatful we don't live a war zone.

Sure, people should take the bus more, and sure, Mississauga Transit would likely improve if more people took the bus. In fact last year cuts were made to MT's ridership growth strategy because ridership was down.

However, the problem is structural. It's a fact that low-density neighbourhoods, such as those that proliferate in Mississauga, are very difficult to service with transit because a)the street patterns do not offer straightforward and recognizable routes for buses and b) lower densities means longer routes in search of few and far between riders.

Until Mississauga reaches the point where the low-density neighbourhoods are forced to be modified for better connectivity and higher density, transit in Mississauga will not improve its modal share.

I'm a 647.

Kudos, Nick - a voice of reason. This is supposed to be about CHOICES, but many (not all) of the downtown crowd feel threatened by the automobile and by the 'invasion' of the 905ers into THEIR turf. (I don't suppose they'll like the 289 crowd much more!)
Certainly Mississauga is at a cross-roads (no pun intended), but my bet is that in 50 years Mississauga will be able to overcome its problems much better than the old City of Toronto ever can. Why? Because in 50 years people will still covet 'personal' transportation and Mississauga, with it's 6 and 8 lane arterial roadways will be able to accomodate vehicular traffic, dedicated streetcar lanes and bicycle lanes as the city intensifies. Toronto simply cannot because our idiot planners in the '20s and '30s simply did not see the future.
Good grief, even Vancouver's planners saw the automobile coming and mapped out east Van and Burnaby with 6 lane arterial roads. I'd love to dig up Hiltz, Foster and McBride (Mayors of Toronto back then) and kick their as#es for not laying out Toronto's 'vaunted' gridway better when they had the chance.
Think of it - the psycho, er, cycle Nazis could have it their way with bicycle lanes on Danforth, Yonge, Broadview, Kingston Rd and others if those Mayors (and their contemporaries) had bothered to widen Toronto's thoroughfares when this city was 700,000. Instead, we're going to have to bulldoze those thoroughfares when the city hits 5 million - and mark my words, in 20 or 30 years a future Council will have to do just that, as other cities like Sao Paulo and Mexico City have had to do when they reached unmanageable proportions.
Those quick to dismiss the suburbs may be eating their words in 20 or 30 years, but then most of these people will have real jobs, kids and be living in the exo-suburbs(Barrie, Keswick) by then..LOL

Well, there are more choices for getting around Toronto than Mississauga. And living in Toronto you might even have the option of walking to work or school. I don't know how common that is in Mississauga.

Nick and gadfly are right, though, that some people prefer getting around by automobile, and that's what suburbs were built around. Suburbs are fine at doing what they do, but don't forget that Mississauga is growing, and if every new resident means a new car on the road, it's not going to take long before driving there looks and feels like driving through Toronto. That's the point here - Mississauga isn't going to be a 'suburb' forever, and to deal with its growth it's going to have to figure out other ways of moving people, not just cars, because there just won't be enough room to move _everybody_ by car forever.

I don't intend to dismiss the suburbs, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that the GTA is growing so fast that what have been suburbs will have to become cities themselves in order to maintain the same quality of life that has traditionally drawn people to them. And people looking for that traditional suburb will have to move further and further away from Toronto. This doesn't mean cars will or should disappear from the GTA - of course not. It's just a matter of limiting the cars that are on the road, to keep the convenience that one gets from having an automobile in the suburbs. So, if in 50 years Mississauga is a better place to live than Toronto, that's only because it will have become more like Toronto.

Phew! I was getting worried - 41 posts and nobody brought up London, Paris, or HK! Thanks, Kevo, because Toronto is definitely in the same category as those cities:

London: 2,500 years old, 10 million people, built with Roman roads to start
HK: Almost an archipalego with mountains, about 2,300 years old, 7-8million people jammed into 400 sq ft boxes.

Yep, sounds about what many people around here would like Toronto to become - maybe in another 2,000 years!

The towers are beautiful <b>but</b>

Across the road is a Walmart (Square One) and the other side of that is the Mississauga City Hall AND A BRAND NEW COLLEGE CAMPUS beside retirement towers. There is a horrible new design to the unused town square with electronic advertising billboards devaluing all the high-rise condos that are facing them. All of the above are separated by extremely busy roads laid out with no thought or design for pedestrians in a windless and endlessly noisy smog filled area. This isn't Queens Quay, there is no where to go once you're home.

These two buildings were planned out long before the mayor had released any silly ideas of what else she could envision in the area. The college was a very big surprise to all but her. The only two things these buildings have are proximity to the 403 (which is a crawling stop-trap for 5 hours a day due to absolutely no road planning), and their beautiful design.

I really think the investors got taken on this one and for the life of me I can't think how they got built in <i>The Big Miss</i> rather than Toronto.

I will not bash Mississauga, but please don't tell me I don't live in a neighbourhood. I live in Toronto's neighbourhood called the Pocket, I know almost %75 of my neighbours by name, their is only one house to my right, I know their names, they are pretentious in the work they do and could be rude to us, who are no where in the same industry, I know the 2 houses in front of us by name, I know what work they do, on May24, our little neighbourhood park had it's own fireworks and about 200-300 of our closest neighbours came out.

I have a mommy group that is strickly in my 'hood, I can walk to the Danforth, I am 5 minutes from a mall, I can be at the beach, read it a clean, swimmable beach in less than 10. Ohhh and I have a garden, 2 actually, one in my back and another in my front yard, I grow carrots, celery, beans and various other fun things, my daughters have a swing and little pool.

The children on my street play hockey til about 7 pm, and the ice cream truck does come by here. So to anyone who feels like knocking Toronto's neighbourhoods, you don't know you hand from your foot, because not everyone who lives in Toronto lives on Queen W. We have houses, cars, bikes, even kayaks that we don't take to our cottages... I only take mine down to Cherry beach.

Maybe you should meet some T.doters who actually live like real families but don't need to get out of the city to be anyone but themselves. I found your Toronto bashing pathetic and poor... highly poor in taste!

My toy... is way more cooler than your toy.

Toronto and Mississauga have their pros and cons but you cannot compare the two; in Mississauga's infancy, it served a completely different purpose than Toronto. Mississauga is a city made up of tiny farm neighbourhoods and towns I.e. Port Credit, Streetsville, Erin Mills, Meadowvale, etc. The fact that Toronto dwellers even compare the two means that they consider Mississauga to be in the same playing field as them.

Also, I love how Torontonians bash Mississauga all day, every day on these blogs, yet the second someone brings up valid points against Toronto living, they get super defensive. Can you have a quiet lifestyle with your own backyard and family and friends in both places? Yes. Do people who live in Toronto drive/own cars? Yes. The fact is, I live in the Square One area and yes, I can walk somewhere to get milk or pop. I can walk to the Wal-Mart or Zellers and pick up some cat litter too for my non-taxed cats!

@JohnD: That Sheridan campus that they are putting in will serve 5,000 students: hardly an amount to wreak havoc on the seniors in the Amica building a few blocks away. And where is this electronic sign? So Mississauga has 1 sign and it's an outrage, but Toronto has thousands of them but they don't devalue the buildings that surround them? Mississauga is pedestrian friendly - Just don't walk your dog on HWY10... And the 403 being a parking lot between 5 and 7pm is not the fault of Hazel. Seriously, who cares where someone lives? I enjoy living in the 'burbs'... It reminds me of that Tom Hanks movie The 'Burbs, or when I venture out to the more residential areas, I feel like I'm in Edward Scissorhands. It's great!

PS. The reason why Mississauga doesn't have many trees is because it used to all be farmland and meadow! Duhh. Which is why it's also very windy which is a con.

I think the towers really add to Mississauga's Skyline. I had a chance to visit some units and I am pretty impressed with the details.