City
Toronto protest against Israeli flotilla attack
A loud anti-Israel protest erupted on Saturday afternoon outside the Israeli consulate on Bloor Street. Protestors waved mostly Palestinian, Turkish, and Canadian flags but some waved Saudi Arabian flags as well.
Supporters of Israel were on the other side of the street, and though police kept them apart, tension was high.
The protest was over Israel's Monday raid on a Flotilla packed with aid. It was heading towards Gaza and was in breach of an Israeli blockade, which prompted the assault. The incident left nine people dead.
After a couple of hours on Bloor, the pro-Palestinian crowd made its way down University Avenue and regrouped on College. They later headed down Yonge, forcing police officers to shut down large sections of the street as they marched.
The protest then continued along Queen Street, stopping outside City Hall, at which point the crowd started to fizzle out.
Among the protestors was mayoral candidate Himy Syed. "I'm marching with Torontonians...who believe that Canada must return to its traditional position of being an honest broker," he explained.
"None of the other mayoral candidates, to my knowledge, marched here. But they did march at [the Walk for Israel] event," he said. He also expressed unhappiness that Queers Against Israeli Apartheid were banned from the 2010 Pride parade.
"Until we ban censorship, I'm not sure I can march in the Pride parade," he added.
Video:
More photos:
Video by Daniel Libby.
Correction (June 7, 2010): The original version of this article asserted that there were protesters waving Hamas flags, when in fact, the flags in question were those of Saudi Arabia. The text has been corrected, and we regret the error.
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Rachel Corrie Intercepted;
The 9 activists killed last Monday were shot 30 Times
Posted on June 5, 2010 by Juan
Wire services reported early Saturday morning that the Rachel Corrie had been intercepted by Israeli war ships and that its communications had been jammed by the Israelis. The ship, which had set off from Ireland, was intended to land at Gaza with humanitarian supplies. International bodies estimate that only 25% of needed supplies are getting into Gaza past the Israeli blockade.
The Irish Foreign Minister, Micheal Martin, says that he believes that the aid ship should be allowed to offload its humanitarian supplies at Gaza.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activists-autopsy-results
The nine bodies of aid workers that the Israeli authorities returned to Turkey have now been subjected to an autopsy, and it turns out that the nine were shot 30 times altogether by nine millimeter bullets. Most of the gunshots were from very close range, and some wounded the activists in the back of the head or in the back, suggesting that they were shot as they tried to run away. Only one body had just one entry wound, apparently that of a photographer who was sitting down when shot between the eyes. Targeting photographers suggests suppression of evidence of a crime, not self-defense. Multiple shots from close range also sounds more like venting than like self-defense. If you were menaced by an advancing crowd, would you stand around shooting the same person 4 times? Would you bother to shoot anyone in the back? (Remember, the shots came from close range, so it wasn’t that people were killed accidentally at a distance when the commandos missed their close-up target).
The aid workers maintain that 6 people are still missing, suggesting that the death toll may be 15, not 9 (Israeli Army radio reported 16 dead early on Monday, and surely they knew). You wonder if they had an impromptu burial at sea to get rid of the evidence (forensic analysis of the bodies would be eloquent about Israeli tactics).
Abbas al-Lawati says that Monday’s attack on the Mavi Marmara came in three stages– first stun grenades were tosed on deck; then an attempt was made to board from the sea, which failed. And then rubber bullets were deployed from above, which, however, killed or injured aid workers, enraging some of them…
Shane Dillon of Ireland, who was on one of the other ships, said the Israelis had used stun guns, assaulted people with the butt ends of rifles, pushed people to the ground and stood on them.
The second picture is a captivating shot, nicely done.
I would rather see the protest not described as 'anti-Israel' - many people aren't anti-Israel or Israeli, just disgusted by what its government has chosen to do.
Also kind of funny that the "peace activist" leading the chanting in the video called for Intifada – "Viva, Viva Intifafa" – which is associated with the killing of innocent civilians, suicide bombings and other violent acts that have nothing to do with the actual translation of the word. I'd give the benefit of the doubt and say that, maybe, it was a slip of the tongue, but it's a staple of their chant repertoire.
So what should we call theml" We are protesting "Those men with masks on their faces that slithered down ropes onto the Mavi Marmura and shot 9 innocent Aid workers in the back and back of the head."
Please inform me Nicole, what would you RATHER since Israel nor Israeli is not applicable in this case just let me know.
As the population of Israel voted the present government - the idiots who planned and ordered this attack, AFTER the GAZA MASSACRE, you do not feel thatmany people are "anti-Israel or anti-Israeli. Well Nicole, I certainly am - I think Israel should be kicked out of the UN.
http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=36575&;p=1&rid=2
Now, please, apologize for distorting the truth.
Also, part of that "aid" were medications with expiry dates more than a year ago. And there were also camouflage nets. Very useful stuff in a warfare.
The goal was not to deliver the goods. The goal was to create a provocation and it succeeded, sadly. The soldiers were armed with paintball guns first, with pistols on the belts. Once they felt their lives are at risk, they began firing the pistols. That explains the close range of the bullets.
Please stop repeating HAMAS Goebbels-like propaganda and start thinking.
British Naval analyst on Flotilla lynch of Israelis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KUcv452KbU
We con the World
Eg. "We have zero tolerance for any comments that are deemed threatening or offensive in any way (ex. sexist, racist, profane, derogatory, dafamatory etc.) We will also remove comments that are not pertinent to the discussion at hand or serve merely as non-constructive insults to staff or fellow commenters."
http://www.blogto.com/commentpolicy/
And, if you plan on ignoring our rules, know that I will simply remove your posts.
Clearly they had the equipment to record and were capable. Why is there no footage of what happened?
People this is about the lives that were lost. Humans died. These were peaceful people bringing aid to Gaza and they died protecting their ship against pirates.
perhaps Israel could release all the video they confiscated from reporters aboard the flotilla. They've got nothing to hide, right?
I look forward to your reply, Yan. I hope you're not the internet-badass who just comes on to spout his random and unfounded opinions. It'd be neat to discuss this with you like a civilized human being.
http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk
Pirates? This was an operation which complies with International Laws of Maritime Traffic. I can find the relevant parts for you if you want.
Peaceful people would go to the Israeli port of Ashdod as required, unload the aid there and supervise the delivery. Actually, Israel ships lots of aid into Gaza all the time (7- or 8-fold of all the aid brought on the "Mavi Marmara"). HAMAS, BTW, refuses to accept the aid of the flotilla even now. The goal of this flotilla was to create a provocation. And they succeeded.
Peaceful people were those who came a few days later on the seventh ship (the Irish vessel originally named "Linda" but re-named "Rachel Corey" for propagandist purposes). They didn't attack the soldiers but peacefully surrendered. BTW, for some reason, the violence took place only on one vessel of 7 overall. All the other didn't have any hostile intentions and nothing happened to them.
Turkish newspaper itself published the following photos of the badly beaten Israeli soldiers:
http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=36575&;p=1&rid=2
Also "Loshad" provided above an excellent link to the British specialist interview.
If you need more information, you're welcome to ask. I prefer a normal dialogue over slogan shouting.
While similar (both green), the flags have differing lettering in Arabic.
It's perplexing how someone can make this kind of mistake. Alleging that someone at a demonstration is carrying a Hamas flag has repercussions in today's climate.
The ship tried to run a military blockade and were given numerous warnings before being boarded. The boarding and the blockade itself is not illegal.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/560?OpenDocument
What happened once the commandos boarded the vessel is the question.
So either the soldiers decided to risk an international incident and just execute the protesters? Or the protesters decided they could take on trained military commandos?
Gimme a break. At this point I'm not prepared to believe either side 100% until more evidence becomes available.
Considering your comment, it sounds like you're at least willing to look at this situation from a level perspective.
If you consider this situation an act of war, then it's pretty safe to assume you would consider the continuous, almost daily, launch of rockets from Gaza into Israel an act of war as well, correct? The rockets were being launched before Hamas took over Gaza, but after as well.
As far as the camera thing goes, I couldn't agree more with it. Even posted it as my Facebook status. I think that helmet cams should be a part of the standard gear for every Israeli soldier. Unfortunately, Israeli's thought that it's nothing but right leaves it looking like fools to people who know it is, but wish they'd do a better job of proving it. And though, even with definitive proof, people would still cry bloody murder, more level headed people would start to see the truth.
A loss of lives is a tragedy, no doubt, but this had nothing to do with peace and far less than you'd think to do with aid for the people of Gaza. It was about PR. It was about taking advantage of a situation where a leader was away from his country.
If those people who died on that ship were truly peace activists, they wouldn't have attacked soldiers carrying paintball guns (watch the footage, especially the one in the British video linked above, it's blatantly clear they were using paintball guns before their lives were truly at risk).
Kudos on taking the first important step though – real discourse.
As for the continuous rocket attacks from Palestine; yes, I agree they are not helping. However, if we were to get into that we'd need some coffee and a joint as it'll take some time to discuss the reasons why they feel they have to and the different people and groups involved.
Because the attack took place in international waters, 72 miles off Israel's coast, it was illegal.
Furthermore, Israel claims that before boarding they tried to get them to allow them to search for weapons and if nothing was found -- they'd allow them to continue on. So, was anything found?
As far as the international waters note goes, from what I've been told (I'm still looking this up because I want to find and read the source material myself), since the blockade was declared and known, the action was actually legal, specifically because Israel was enforcing the blockade. As an example, here's a source that mentions it (http://neoneocon.com/2010/06/01/boarding-a-ship-in-international-waters/).
As for the final point, yeah, there are plenty of videos showing Israeli ships warning them about the blockade (not that they didn't know about it already, taking into consideration the fact that the flotilla was sent specifically to break the blockade). Both Israel and Egypt even offered to take in, unload and transfer the aid as well. There's no reason any of this should have went down as it did, except for the purposes I suggested in my last comment.
If you can't understand why blockade runners are searched or why the blockade is permitted than you need to do some research while the grown ups talk.
Where did Isreal claim to "let them go on"? The ship was to divert to Ashdod, an order they refused to comply with.
If a strange man was banging on the door demanding face time with your kids despite your refusing his entry would you just "let him go on"?
Israel is a diplomatic joke, it runs around breaking international laws and expects people to be happy with them. It dosn't work like that. Plus I get disgusted at anybody trying to demote Gaza actions, unless you have lived in a occupied state, or war torn area you simply cant talk at all about the matter, when you have nothing left but your will to exist you do ANYTHING to protect it.
I just get frustrated with Israel ignorance that is all. I have nothing agianst its people. but the Govt of Israel does not care about its people, only its agenda.. it continues to embarrass the state on a regular basis and fuel more tension and hatred towards its people.
Just shows you how pointless and stupid the whole thing was, eh?
They could have easily made port and had all the aid shipped into Gaza – with the help of Israel no less! or Egypt if they preferred – but instead they chose to ignore all warnings and then, when boarded, attack the soldiers.
Just a bunch of people looking to cause trouble.
And then Israel still went delivered the aid! What other country does that?!?
Unless those 2 things have been met...
If you believe that Israel is doctoring video, then you must be furious with what Reuters, a respected and supposedly reputable press agency, has, without a doubt, done with photos of the "peace activists" aboard the Mavi Marmara. It's already linked above, but since the URL is too long, here's one that should work.
http://is.gd/cHoDR
Regarding the international laws thing, I'll repeat what others have said. It's been discussed above.
As far as the situation in Gaza goes, it sucks. Anybody who says otherwise probably has their head up their behind or down a hole (see the clip of Charles Krauthammer from the June 2nd episode of The Daily Show to see what I mean). But to only place the blame on Israel is ignorant action in and of itself.
No matter what stupid things the Israeli government does (I'm sure there's a list somewhere) its priority is, and, like any country, should be, to protect its people. They've had little choice but to think in black and white ever since this fight became a PR war – "Do we protect our people and look evil in the eye of the world, or do we do nothing and let our people get slaughtered?".
Which would you choose? Take some time. Really think about it. If you were in their position, what would you do?
The point is, people are talking about this particular indecent. It does nobody any good to go back & fourth with "Well, they did this and they did that" because it just keeps the vicious circle repeating. It must come to a point when you say STOP talking about things in the past and lets start dealing with the now.
The main part of the problem here is the international community needs to step up and put an end to this once and for all.
I'm indifferent either way. But I'm 100% of the belief that the blockade by UN rules is illegal. Unless it is approved by the UN security council, the boarding of the ship was against international law. Or like someone wrote above, unless war has been declared.
It's time for the UN to step up and start making all sides to finally settle. Any poor action from anyone against should be dealt with swiftly.
Blockades in general pre-date and do not require approval by the UN.
Declaration of war are not required.
International waters doesn't provide immunity if the ship makes clear the intention to run the blockade.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/560?OpenDocument
SECTION V - 67:
Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
If you cite any documents to the contrary feel free.
Well, you could always read the rest of the link you posted which states,
102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
In any case, it's not an easy answer...
http://opiniojuris.org/2010/06/02/why-is-israels-blockade-of-gaza-legal/
In either case blockades still do not require UN approval or declarations of war.
War has never been declared. There are reasons why Israel has never done it. It's touched upon in the link.
http://opiniojuris.org/2010/06/02/why-is-israels-blockade-of-gaza-legal/
And of course if you're going to have a blockade, it's best to get UN approval. By your definition, if the countries in the surrounding area wanted to get together and say they felt threatened by Israel, they could set up a blockade of their own without UN approval. Probably would never happen. But Israel is setting a dangerous precedent IMO. They are opening themselves to what actions can be taken against them in future conflicts.
Forget if it's legal or not, what I'm saying is. If a country decides on doing a blockade, one would be wise IMO to gain UN approval. Not doing so (Once again IMO) set's yourself up for possible problems down the line. With Israel surrounded by countries who have completely different policies. You open yourself up to tactics that you have now set precedent for.
I'm not sure what precedent you're talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade#Historical_blockades
Your warning is no less true though and can be likened to the "an eye for an eye" quotation .
The blockade itself has its' goal to prevent cases like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karine_A_Affair
This is way better than I had ever found trying to speak to anybody with SAIA, CAIA or any other such organizations when I was a student. Those guys just can't think for themselves. They were, and are, as I have still found, so stuck in the line they're fed that they can't even see the Israeli people as, well, people.
All they do is promote violence and hatred (also pointed out in my first comment, regarding the person leading the chanting yelling "Viva, Viva Intifada").
Way better to see real discourse.
The so-called peace activists who were caught on film with knives, clubs, and axes were well-organized and planned the (counter)attack to the boarding. They actually grabbed two IDF soldiers and were attempting to kidnap them like Hamas had done with Gilad Shalit. Another squad from a second helicopter observed this, boarded the ship (against the original plan) and gave chase to the kidnappers, firing with live ammunition. Turns out that the "peace activists" who were killed with the 30 rounds among 9 dead bodies were mostly the would-be kidnappers. Who knew that activism for peace involves premeditated violence with weapons, and kidnapping?
All sarcasm aside, loss of life is a tragedy, irrespective of one's political proclivities. The fact that these losses could have easily been avoided had the ship complied with being redirected to Ashdod, or had the activists not viciously attacked speaks to the real agenda, to further discredit Israel and to promote war and violence rather than help to bring about peace.
Netanyahu's government is probably the worse thing to happen to the prospects for a sustainable peace in the region in many years. I don't agree with many of Israel's current provocative policies that seem to be counterproductive. However, Hamas supporters are no better. According to Hamas strategy, Netanyahu is the best thing that could have happened for them, since Israeli provocation only strengthens Hamas's control over Gaza, and wins sympathy among those with jerky knees.
This http://himysyed.tyo.ca/about/islamic-banker/ is the link to this self-professed Islamic banker, but not a banker under Canadian Law.
Or how about his advice http://groups.google.ca/group/can.general/browse_thread/thread/29f25bda5a40e928/c03c054074e4eb4?q=immigration+canada+%22how+to+get%22+OR+%22getting+into%22+abuse on how to Get Into Canada a guide to abusing Canada's immigration system?
Nobody in their right minds would believe this clearly corrupt candidate!
For the record,
The comments attributed in my name in the middle of the 1990s on usenet and now archived on google groups (which is referenced & linked to above by an anonymous commenter) are not my comments, nor are their contents even remotely similar to anything I would state.
They were posted by a someone from my high school days who during their time at Ryerson decided to use my name instead of their own to place such comments.
ALL comments on usenet groups in the 1990s in my name were placed by someone else.
That person has since apologized to myself for his 90s version of identity theft and google being google, neither of us are able to remove those archived comments.
Thank You.
HiMY SYeD
Thank you for asking Eli,
I re-posted the above comment on the website which is mentioned by the anonymous "Me" commenter above.
You can call me 647-701-SYeD to confirm.
http://himysyed.tyo.ca/2010/06/10/identity-theft-messages-posted-in-1990s-on-usenet-now-archived-on-google-falsely-made-in-my-name/
Over the years, I have always answered directly to anyone who asked about these messages and am happy to do so in person anytime.
Again, Thank You Eli for asking.
HiMY SYeD
Just curious.
Thank you for your follow up comment Eli.
In grade seven at Earl Grey Senior Public School, my English teacher Mrs Elizabeth Chandler, asked the class to create logos for their first names.
We all did.
It was a fun exercise forgotten by most within a few days. Mrs Chandler however was very encouraging of my Logo where the H and M share the middle piller, and the M and Y share the outside piller. Pull them together, then umluat (double dot) the 'i' by way of the middle shared piller in between the H and the M and your mind's eye may see HiMY as a Logo.
Mrs Chandler was killed in a car accident some years later. In my personal private way, I decided to honour her, my favourite teacher during my time in Earl Grey P.S. by spelling my name with capitalized consonants & the lower case i.
Some decades later, when google arbitrarily decided to archive all of usenet, I chose to spell Himy Syed as HiMY SYeD as the only digital ASCII way to differentiate real comments by me and those earlier fake ones in the 1990s on usenet (The facebook of its day).
With this BlogTO comment, the casing of my name and why it came to be has come full circle.
I trust this may answer your curiosity Eli.
Thank You.
HiMY SYeD
As usual the silence of the Muslim moderates on matters such as this is deafening. And very telling.
Will you be there? are you going to march?
Funny how you don't hear about honour killing in European, North American, or Australian "cultures". Somehow it is always coincidentally positioned in families that happen to come from Islamic backgrounds. According to your logic, there should be countless honour killings taking place in the suburbs of Quebec City and Baltimore... the media is probably just ignoring them.
And that is my point, martel; there will be no rally, because the people who are most affected by these primarily "cultural" acts, choose silence over dissent.
Look at the context of these acts. They are crimes committed most often against girls who refuse to cover up their bodies with hijabs, or who commit dastardly acts like speaking to boys after school.
It is a phenomenon situated within societies and cultures that happened to be rooted in the Islamic faith,and in Sharia law, and the exceptions you might try to cite do not change that fact.
Look at the list of countries that openly permit the murder of homosexuals and women who commit "adulterous" acts. I think you will find a common thread to most of them. Not all, but the vast majority. It is a tremendous hypocrisy that those who rally loudly against any of Israel's actions choose to stand silent on issues that obviously have nothing to do with them, because they are so obviously "cultural" and therefore outside their moral periscope.
He's right martel. And though I'd imagine there are a number of women who'd like to stand up against it, I'm sure they're afraid to do just that.
Now, that said, these killings don't happen here in North America as they do in the, uh, "cultures" they come from. So let's be thankful for that.
The fact is you are simply riding the "let's rail on Islam" bandwagon. If you can find evidence in the Quaran that even remotely condones the killing of a family member for ANY reason -- I will apologize for my own ignorance. If you want to take it even further -- these suicide bombers who have been dubbed "Islamic Extremists" by the media are NOT muslim.
Come on -- we live in 2010. A time of tolerance and understanding. So how is it that you're still so ignorant and close-minded so as to generalize an entire people and religion?
It's not a "let's rail on Islam" bandwagon. It is fact. I suppose works like Irshad Manji's book, and so many others, are just making this stuff up on the internet like I did.
I am generalizing about a religion that is still mired with pre-medieval notions of justice, and that subjugates women, and encourages jihad and violence to solve so many problems. Perhaps these are all borne out of cultural misinterpretations of the gentle teachings of Mohammed, but to suggest that the religion of Islam has nothing to do with the perpetuation of problems is naive and foolish.
I am calling on people to acknowledge the hypocrisy. You are so busy defending your religion of "peace" that you can't acknowledge the tacit complicity of Islam and Islam-rooted cultures that exist in the Arab world in these terrible acts.
"These suicide bombers who have been dubbed Islamic Extremists are NOT muslim". What are they, Jewish? Greek Orthodox? Roman Catholic? Were Aqsa Parvez' parents Mennonite? Please enlighten us, as you seem to know it all.
You want to live like that, please don't come to this country. Stay home, and you can do as you please and be applauded for your choice of disciplinary measures. Here we will jail you and tax dollars will pay for your prison rations for the next decade.
So you see, these suicide bombers and Extremists are not Muslim. They took the religion and misinterpreted it. They were brainwashed from childhood by other extremists and anti-western schools of thought.
Have you read the Quaran? I have Read the Torah and the Bible. If you have not read the Quaran, you have no right to criticiize it -- I don't tell you this as a Muslim -- but I say this as an intellectual. It's like Bobby D said; "Don't criticize what you can't understand"
And you seem to be stuck on this "honor killing" that's a completely cultural and personal choice. In the west, how many murders happen because a spouse cheated on the other? Do I judge the system? or the government? or the religion? do you see where I am going with this? It's easy to GENERALIZE with your very well internet-informed self.
People such as yourself grapple onto a few "key facts" and refuse to let go.
As for AQSA's unfortunate story;
Aqsa "did not have a door on her bedroom, her freedom to talk on the phone with friends was restricted, she was required to come straight home from school and expected to spend her evenings and weekends at home."
That is not Islamic behavior. She is entitled to freedoms -- heck, even the Hijab is not an absolute necessity until a girl is 18. Do you see? Islam is not what you think it is. Please educate yourself -- because your internet-badassitude serves no purpose other than putting down the fastest growing religion in the world; the religion of peace.
Your insults are betraying yourself as a petulant little child. "Internet badassitude?" What are you, 15?
In any case, your repeated attempts to divest these acts from the social/religious/cultural context of the societies in which they occur, and the triggers that push these "men" to commit these acts, is not working.
Like it or not, Islam is THE religious and cultural bond that unites the men who commit these crimes, and the men who fly planes into buildings, and men who blow up buses and nightclubs filled with innocents in London, Tel Aviv, and Indonesia. Too bad you feel that these savage medieval acts have NOTHING to do with your religion of "peace". Because I think they do.
If this is a misinterpretation of the teachings of Muhammad, why does it keep happening??? Why does sharia law entrench hateful actions against gays, and women who "dishonour" the family. Why don't men have to cover their entire face, and hide their ability to express themselves through smiles and other normal human gestures? Why don't some of your eminent mullahs speak out against this? Where are the Islamic moderates on these issues? Is it really because they don't see this is a problem of Islam? Or is it because they are too ashamed and afraid to speak out?? Maybe like you, it is because they are in denial, or agree with these acts?
I don't even think that a self-appointed intellectual like yourself knows the answer.
Religion of Peace. What a complete joke. If that was Muhammad's intent, it has long since been corrupted, and by at least thousands of "misguided" souls, if not millions.
After the flotilla incident, these self-proclaimed "experts" on international law were quick to condemn Israel for its flagrant "violation" of international waters. Will the same standard be applied to these terrorists who violate a country's land borders with rockets???? I imagine not.
The double standard is embarrassingly obvious. And the silence deafening. But I have no doubt it will be broken if Israel chooses to respond to these violent gestures while the Hamas-led "government" in Gaza stands idly by. Then the marchers with their hateful chants and angry vitriol will be out again in force.
Ridiculous.
Hmm, I don't think the sarcasm works as well in text...