City
Dear Giorgio, my Toronto includes graffiti
In his latest promise to "get tough" on Toronto's criminal element, mayoral candidate Giorgio Mammoliti has indicated that he'll support councillor Sandra Bussin's (Ward 32, Beaches) plan to ban the sale of spray paint to those under the age of 18. Well, perhaps "support" isn't quite the right word. What Mammoliti wants to do is institute a more draconian plan that would see first time offenders fined $5000 for spreading graffiti or tagging buildings. He'd also like to shift responsibility away from the retailers and onto the parents for such offences, as is demonstrated by his desire to see both the perpetrator and his/her legal guardian serve community service in the wake of a graffiti conviction.
I suppose the desire of municipal politicians to curb the spread of graffiti is nothing new. But, bans like this fail to register the complex nature of the relationship between a city and its graffiti.
So, let's get two disclaimers out of the way from the outset: I generally like graffiti, and I think that much of it enriches the urban environment. There is something quite intriguing and rewarding about stumbling upon a freshly painted mural or a particularly intricate tag. Spaces that might once have been drab, artless and institutional are often reinvigorated by the presence of unsolicited art. And, what I mean by "graffiti" is street art and writing that hasn't been legally commissioned (unlike the majority of what appears in the lead photo). Although it may seem counter-intuitive, as Suzi Gablik contends, graffiti "needs criminality to maintain its ethical quality, it's a note of authenticity."
A city without graffiti is surely a stolid place.
On the other hand, it's important to note that the wide-scale proliferation of graffiti has, historically speaking, been a sign of a city's lack of health -- of higher crime rates, a larger drug trade and/or general citizen apathy. New York City of the 1980s is a classic example of this tendency: as the amount of graffiti diminished in the late 80s, the crime rate soon followed.
One must, however, resist making direct and uncomplicated connections between these two trends. The sheer number of variables that play a role in the overall reduction of crime in a city make it virtually impossible to establish surefire links between discrete elements and the greater whole.
Nevertheless, I don't think it ridiculous that a mayoral candidate so vocal about cracking down on crime would target the elimination of graffiti as part of his platform. (What is ridiculous, however, is Mammoliti's suggestion that by-law officers carry guns to enforce petty crime). Graffiti, by its very nature, poses a threat to the institutional and disciplinary practices with which politicians are tasked.
Perhaps a useful analogy in this regard comes from the work of the French theorist Michel de Certeau. In the chapter "Walking in the City" from the The Practice of Everday Life de Certeau draws a distinction between two experiences of the city. When viewed from above (he uses the example of gazing upon New York from atop the former World Trade Center), one's perspective of the city is voyeuristic, totalizing and panoptic, much like vantage point a politician or any authoritarian must adopt in the process of governance.
The elected official -- here I refer to a mayor, but it would be true of a leader of a ward, province, state or country -- must have a rational, predictable and all-encompassing plan to ensure the socioeconomic success of his or her polity. Far from something sinister, this is the very nature of his or her occupation. And so, metaphorically speaking, he or she must view the city as if on high -- surveying its entirety from a distance that separates the viewer from what happens below.
Contrary to this, as de Certeau argues, "The ordinary practitioners of the city live 'down below,' below the thresholds at which visibility begins. They walk--an elementary form of this experience of the city; they are walkers, Wandersmänner, whose bodies follow the thicks and thins of an urban 'text' they write without being able to read it.... The networks of these moving, intersecting writings compose a manifold story that has neither author nor spectator, shaped out of fragments of trajectories and alterations of spaces..."
I view graffiti in a similar capacity. Just as the pedestrian, the so-called "man on the street," demonstrates an almost natural resistance to the regulatory strategies of urban planning -- think of grid-like streets, traffic lights, speed limits, "keep off the grass" signs, etc. -- the graffiti artist writes an alternate text of the city, one that counters the institutionally prescribed experience of urban life. Jaywalking, short-cutting, loitering and meandering, are all tactics we use -- knowingly or not -- to refuse being fixed or funneled into predictable, repeatable behavioural patterns. Similarly, the act of taking a can of spray paint to an alley wall reveals an inherent dissatisfaction with the city as planned by its official builders, be these politicians or developers.
Not merely the act of disenfranchised and alienated youth, graffiti is representative of the collective desire to cultivate autonomy within a system that so often structures choice along consumeristic lines. The tag, the stencil, the writing of graff -- these are little eruptions of dissent, usually harmless, but always a reminder that it's possible to "be otherwise," that other versions of the city exist.
For de Certeau, the spontaneity and resourcefulness of the urban walker is demonstrative of the degree to which individual citizens animate cities. Defined by flux, the urban environment is continually written and re-written by the everyday practices of its residents, many of which rub up against official policy. Doesn't graffiti fit into this mix? Cities are continually contested spaces, and writing on a wall is one of the many ways that citizens lay claim to their environment.
Is this conception of graffiti idealistic? Yes, without doubt. So many tags are uncreative, ugly and a nuisance to property owners. But even a brief perusal of a column like Torontoist's "Vandalist" reveals the potential of graffiti to enrich a city with impromptu art.
So forgetting the pragmatic oversights of Mammoliti and Bussin's proposals -- there are plenty of people over 18 who produce graffiti, parents shouldn't be held accountable for every law that their teenager breaks -- the question becomes, do we really want to live in a city that bans minors from buying spray paint, that takes a hard stance on graffiti and that overreacts to the quiet rebellion represented by wall art?
Councillor Bussin's proposal is based on a similar -- and putatively successful -- bylaw in London, Ontario. Still, I can't remember the last time I thought that Toronto should be more like London. Even anecdotes about the days of "Toronto the Good" or "New York run by the Swedes" conjure up images a hyper-clean but ultimately characterless city.
But, alas, being an advocate for graffiti is a little like walking a tight rope: every step of your argument may be the last before you say something stupid that reveals your hopeless naivety. As such, I don't claim to have a plan that could somehow eliminate the bad graffiti and keep only the good stuff (and, besides, do people even agree on what's good and bad graffiti anyways?). With graffiti, the delightful comes hand in hand with the dirty and distasteful.
And yet, it's undeniable that the attempt to eradicate unsolicited street art reveals a political ideology that seeks to compartmentalize, fix and regulate citizen behaviour in a manner that would make the average Torontonian -- graffiti supporter or not -- most uncomfortable.
Photos by marty pinker, sniderscion, spotmaticfanatic, ibid, andyscamera and Maryam S., members of the blogTO Flickr pool.


Discussion
107 Comments
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That's the gist of it right?
Taking a pro-graffiti stance is the same in my mind as taking a pro-pollution stance. It's just offensive to assert that you have some right to deface property or dump poison in streams.
You want to Fight The Man? Fine. But guess what, graffiti'ing some random neighbour's property is not, in fact, fighting the Man. It's just setting that neighbour up for a wasted Saturday afternoon with scrub brush or paint. Fuck you for wasting my Saturday.
"plan to ban the sale of spray paint to those under the age of 18"
This is laughably stupid since nobody knows who is doing the graffiti-ing. And, any -18 year old could simply get an 18+ year old to buy the stuff for them.
2
This gasbaggy essay on graffiti conveniently omits what is at the core of all uncommissioned graffiti: a complete and utter disrespect for other people's property and property belonging to everybody. Why is that? Why is the cost of clean up not discussed? Why are property owners' rights completely unmentioned? You don't even bother to talk about the actual issues.
3
"the act of taking a can of spray paint to an alley wall reveals an inherent dissatisfaction with the city as planned by its official builders, be these politicians or developers"
So little Jimmy the 16 year old painting TONE in 10 foot letters on a wall is making a statement about urban planning or city politics? Are you f'ing kidding?
4
You can't have it both ways and oppose the a**holes who write their names 30 times on storefronts along Spadina but gush over some mural because it has cute type.
5
"the attempt to eradicate unsolicited street art reveals a political ideology that seeks to compartmentalize, fix and regulate citizen behaviour in a manner that would make the average Torontonian -- graffiti supporter or not -- most uncomfortable"
No. Taking measures to stop graffiti is a reasonable attempt to prevent people from damaging other people's things. Nothing more, nothing less.
6
Why don't you invite that Utah jacka** to come spray paint UTAH on your garage door. Or, more likely, your landlord's garage door. Oh, wait, she's in jail. Jailtime may be a tad harsh, but her 10 grand fine is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage to people's property she has inflicted around the world.
7
You're pro graffiti. That will never change until you're a victim of it. Or until you're a little older.
Wow, so difficult.
That is Banksy.
And people fall all over themselves praising this talentless hack.
The dork who does cartoons for the school paper is more of an artist than him.
It is part of urban life. A vital part. Culture happens everywhere, not just where and how you feel safe about it. Toronto is barely a city in the context of the world. At least it has this. Good grief.
Note: I am over 25.
Why not encourage people to tag people's personal cars?
Wouldn't you just love to come out one morning and see a great big cock n' balls with "Honk if U R Horny" scrawled along the side of your ride?
Just bask in the warm glow of all that culture and biting cultural commentary!
It is part of urban life. A vital part. Culture happens everywhere, not just where and how you feel safe about it. Toronto is barely a city in the context of the world. At least it has this. Good grief.
Note: I am over 25.
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I wish my friends and I knew where you lived so we could go spray paint our names on your front door. And then after you spent time and money to clean it off, we could come do it again. Maybe we'll spray paint your windows too. And your car. You're cool with that, right? Or do you just want us to spray paint our names on other people's property? Either way, thanks for being so supportive of our art. You're the best.
Robert: you missed the point. The owners of these buildings/structures absolutely have a say in this issue, but their opinion should not be the be all and end all. Consider: did the owners of those buildings and structures consult with the USERS of the public space when considering their design? Sometimes, but not always. Often the owners don't even live in the area where the buildings or structures reside. Yet the community has to look at and deal with these structures every day. Ownership should not be dictatorship. Sharing is caring.
Then you grow older and want to put that binder on a wall for everyone to see.
No silly laws are going to change that. Why not bring back mandatory military service? (Joking, of course.)
<a href="http://torontoist.com/staff.php">Nope!</a>
I grew up in a country where graffiti was just there. No one really paid much attention, except to the really cool, eye-popping stuff. Most of what Toronto has isn't offensive or obvious, and what's obvious is usually fairly talented work. Sure, what's offensive should be cracked down on, but none of the measures posted above are going to accomplish that.
That said, I would never take the childish stance that we somehow protect the non-existent rights of people to spray paint on other people's property.
Nor would I take the childish stance of assuming that graffiti in Toronto will stop as a result of banning spraypaint sales to minors or imposing stiffer fines. If I own property in the city, it's going to get paint on it, I'm not going to cry about it.
We should also compare visual pollution with physical pollution as if the effect is the same on the earth and not just our own prudish morals.
We should also stifle culture that we're not a part of and don't really understand.
We should also use specious reasoning and conjure the most ridiculous examples when defending our narrow-minded worldview.
We should also become bland, boring, money-focused drones once we hit the age of 25.
Enough sass. I propose we outlaw all of the good, pretty, interesting graffiti and just encourage everyone to write their name and "Honk if U R Horny" on every surface imaginable. Because that's what we're ACTUALLY DOING if we allow kids to get their hands on art supplies and, you know, address their emotions instead of worrying how to better further their career and stock portfolio. Never too early.
I am talking about my local businesses that need to hire expensive cleaners to come out and scrub someone's name off their building.
But oh I forgot, this is artistic expression! Therefore, legal practices like, owning property don't matter. Like the poster above said, lets get enthusiatic about tagging cars. Better yet: lets tag peoples jackets and umbrellas! No, no, guys its cool because its art!
Honestly, the more blogs like this promote it and make it cool, the worse this problem will get. I'll tell you what, in a few years when you own a house or a condo, let me come over and write something on your front door. You don't get a say in what it is; it might be my name, or an anti-government message, or a flacid penis. Then we can talk about how graffiti is part of your city.
Does a person's desire to spraypaint his name or a shlong on my garage door more important than my desire to have a non-vandalized garage door?
It's a very simple question.
Really, it's win-win for me at this point.
An exterior wall that has no setback from the street/sidewalk is considered public property, in my mind.
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What an amazing mind you have.
That wall belongs to someone.
The property owner gets to decide what goes or doesn't go on that wall, not you.
What really hurts my eyes is the glut of advertising and billboards competing for our attention, in giant CAPS, and insipid puns... what intrinsic right does a corporation have to be able to scrawl nonsense right across the public landscape?
Give the kids art supplies; I'll take a local mural over giant Koodo ads, or dancing iPod walls any day.
But unfortunately, as a former so called punk kid, the progression of a graffiti artist starts with Tagging then onto Bombing then onto full out Pieces.
(Graffiti Lingo=http://www.graffiti.org/faq/graffiti.glossary.html)
I can understand that seeing Tags on trains and various nook and cranny in the city can be an eyesore. But when that artist really learns to hone their skill some serious masterpieces can be made. I'm not saying their means to an end is justifiable. Graffiti wouldn't be as thought provoking unless it was illegal.
Downtown Toronto is littered with Tags but there are various parts of the city that are covered in amazing *pieces(masterpiece). These certain parts of the city would be drab and lifeless without these pieces. And now a days a majority of the massive murals have been allowed by the owners of the property.
I feel for property owners who have had their spaces violated. Of course nobody wants their property Tagged up, it depreciates the value of their property in turn their community.
But really, where is this graffiti happening? it's NOT happening on your garage door or your front door or your car or your face.... It's happening in alleyways, viaducts and drab industrial areas. Yes downtown Toronto is littered with tags ie. Queen St and the sort but full out pieces aren't happening on the fronts of their stores. If anything Graffiti in Toronto has eased up and has been focused on areas where existing graffiti has been done.
It is artwork and not everyone is going to enjoy it. Just like art that you may buy from a shop it may not be your cup of tea. There will always be critics, Graffiti artists are the biggest critics when it comes to other graf artists.
Love it or hate it... it will always be around. The more focus lawmakers put on combating it, it will just fuel more and more artists out there to step up their game. Their street cred becomes even higher. The more these *punk kids keep on doing it.
Akswun/AKS1/Acts1erz/Mibs
(*btw I'm 29 and am a working professional)
Until the people have a voice that's louder than the corporations' in our public space, I support graf. No one "gives permission" to individual artists to paint on the walls, but they'll gladly sell permission to corporations.
I'll continue to write articles about graffiti, create websites displaying it, and curate exhibitions of street art. I'm not saying graffiti is a perfect solution. The distance between the haves and the have-nots is only getting further. Expect to see more graffiti.
Check out the latest from TO's Posterchild on Woostercollective.com for an example of what I'm sayin' -- great work.
Sharon Harris
Age: 37
"Revolution, I love you." -Paris graffiti, May 1968
Gee, that's a tough one. What is permission and/or ownership? For 1000 dollars Alex.
Art supplies are tins of spray paint nowadays? Nice hyperbole.
Graffiti is part of urban living and if you don't like it move out of the city. A splash of colour helps give Toronto charm and relief from all the grey people sipping coffees in 'trendy' bars thinking they are the next best thing.
A few examples of "good" graffiti don't make up for the spray that is all over the park signs and the legitimate authorized murals near my house.
Ah, well I've got a bone to pick with the laughable myth of "ownership"; but that might be opening a can of worms best reserved for another thread!
The building belongs to Mr. X, Mr. Y does not have the right to spray paint on the exterior of the building for any reason without permission.
Other than that, it's just people trying to rationalize the issue by calling it "urban", so we should expect the vandalism. Or there is the "art" angle, where one mans right to create art trumps anothers right against vandalism. Or there is the "public space" argument where it's the public's space so an individual has the right to paint a huge piece without anyone's consent, but if an employee of Coke or Pepsi wanted to paint their respective company logos it would be illegal and beyond the pale.
This issue is beyond ages and professions, it is the vandalism of private property, that's it. Whether in Guelph or downtown Toronto, the rights of a property owner don't change.
Also remember that the graffiti that we may look at and appreciate the skill involved is often in the minority and it still doesn't make it right.
End of.
When I paint over or clean off some taggers marks on my garage door, I hate the fact that I have to waste my time and money doing it. Once the paint has dried, I feel a bit better knowing that I am not the only one who wasted my time.
Really? If someone buys a building, they own it. Myth Busted.
Robert: in your world, money = ownership. So the richest people own the most stuff. And also in your world, ownership = entitlement / decision making power. So the richest people, since they own the most stuff, they get to make decisions about most stuff. Don't you see something fundamentally wrong with that?
Graffiti reminds us that we all own this city.
Ownership means entitlement/decision making power over the f'ing item that is OWNED.
My garage isn't worth a million dollars. It's about to collapse. But keep your f'ing spraypaint of it since THE GARAGE IS MINE. Your tagging or art is neither welcomed nor required. Why in f'ing hell can you not respect what is mine? Why do you have so little respect for your fellow human being?
I do have respect for my fellow human being. I respect my fellow human beings' right to express their opinions, whether on a concrete road divider using paint, or on a blog post using typed words. In fact, I have more respect for my fellow human being than for property or material things. Which is why it concerns me when people believe that ownership gives power to overrule the opinions of users who can't afford ownership. To me, usership is much more important than ownership. But I digress....
I don't think anyone here is saying that we want graffiti to be legalized. We're just saying that we appreciate it, for a variety of reasons. I also enjoy and encourage other forms of "unauthorized" street art, like postering, yarn bombing and guerilla gardening. Funny how knitted lamp post sweaters don't illicit the same negative response from the same people who vehemently oppose a spray-painted picture.
The city of Toronto is a corporation, the shareholders of the corporation are the taxpayers and landowners.
Just because you don't seem to understand the basic premise of ownership doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sometime my kids will grab another kids toys and start playing with it and I have to take it away and remind them that it is not their toy and they should ask permission if they would like to use it. I don't want to suppose that this lesson was never passed onto you, which is too bad because you appear to be an adult that doesn't understand that the world tends to be a rather fair place, and if you have a good head on your shoulders and work hard you can earn money, buy a home/possessions and even make decisions about your home/possessions.
I want to just write "you're an idiot", but really it's too bad that you really just don't get how life works. Some people just don't get it, maybe they never will. I really don't see how anybody with any sense of awareness could say that someone painting a mural/graffiti on the side of a building they don't own without permission would be anything but illegal. It's so basic, if you ever have children and a home just remember what you've wrote here when you come home and they've taken a sharpie to a wall in your house.
This statement robs you of all credibility, particularly as you purport to teach others what it means to be mature and wise. If you said Toronto and not "the world" I might be more forgiving, but this type of naivety is, frankly, startling.
Where does your ownership end and the rest of the universe begin?
That is all. I don't know why I, or anyone else, even bothers debating this because it's clear that there are:
a) the people that understand the law.
b) people who live in a magical fantasy land where they don't have to abide by the laws that they don't particularly like.
Please leave my country. You don't belong here, you belong in Rainbow Unicorn Land. I know it's not fair, but by simply being born a Canadian citizen (or however you come about it) you have to follow our laws. If you don't want to, leave. Leave now.
I think Fun Times said it best though, and m's idiotic response really captured how out of touch people like him ('m') are. "It is unfortunate that someone tagged your collapsing garage. But your garage isn't exactly the community space that is being discussed."
IN OTHER WORDS: "I know that this is a real issue but I'm going to ignore it"
Thanks! Fun Times isn't a corporate fatcat so let's just ignore his anecdote because it doesn't fit in with your ridiculous idea. Why can't you understand how legislation works? It would be IMPOSSIBLE for a law to exist which stated, "graffiti is okay as long as it's artistic". My god, can you imagine? We would need a whole new Mounted Graffiti Police Force. The most logical solution is to continue to respect the laws which state you CANNOT deface someone else's property, whether that property is owned by someone fabulously wealthy or someone quite destitute.
I don't care if someone painted a bloody masterpiece on my wall, if I don't want it there it should not be there.
Having loved graffiti for a long time - for both its artistic aspects and the hard to describe stepping outside of the lines that you have so well written about here - I find the new anti spray can law abhorrent. And how many laws and restrictions are youths already subject to? Do they really need another one? Graffiti is a way for people who do not have conventional outlets to make themselves and their views known. We disenfranchise people in many ways in the city - taking away the voice that graffiti gives could be the last straw for some people.
I could go on and on, but... I was thinking today about how councillor Bussin links all graffiti to gangs and violence. That's true of some graffiti, but not all. In the same vein, some art and writing is linked to ideas she wouldn't like. Is it fair to stifle an entire medium of expression because it's possible to express something that others won't agree with?
I think not.
The same rabble who show up at all the G20 summits are the same rabble who feel they have the 'right' to deface other people's property.
Imagine a world without property or property right. Actually, it was tried once: it's call Communism and look where that got the Soviet Union and China?
The 'artists' are always going to agitate and the 'police state' push back. It's just tough to define what art is, that's all.
I work with Canadian law everyday in my profession. I have a more intimate knowledge with it than the average Canadian. And I know that there are serious issues with our current laws, and that they heavily favour certain groups (who are already privileged as it is).
Sadly, the people who think that the world is fair, and that Canadian laws and police are righteous are truly narrow minded. They will never understand concepts such as "cultural constructs". It's like talking to a plain, grey, privately-owned concrete wall.
it's rare for 'taggers' or graffiti artist to tag or bomb up clean and open spaces...
usual targets for graffiti artists are buses,trains, broken down structures and industrial areas. Usually the latter gets the full out 'piece' treatment. Buses and trains get tagged up, either with sandpaper(scratch tags) or markers. Bombing(throwups) of trains don't happen on the TTC(mind you some opinions need to be thrown up on trains towards the TTC) because of the so called 'Silver Elephant' protection. Paint doesn't adhere to TTC trains ala NYC.
Or were you refering to the idea of owning property?
What laws are currently broken? What groups over currently over privileged? Property owners?
You claim you're concerned property owners feel they're opinions overrule those of non owners but I fail to see where they claim to overrule your opinion on issues outside the property they own.
If I spend the substantial amount on a location for business downtown do I have no more rights and opinions on that space than the people who walk by it?
If you feel you have the right to the contents of a blank wall what gives your opinion a greater weight than those of other passers-by, who more-likely-than-not wouldn't agree with your opinions for the wall, or the owner, who has their own opinions on the wall they own.
And did you really compare slave owning, head tax, to property rights? Give your head a shake.
Some people are just able to understand concepts that require thinking outside of themselves. It's like the guy who gives someone the finger when they think they are getting cut off on the road, and than also get pissed off when someone gives them the finger for doing something similar. Some people have the skill of critical thinking, and some don't. To equate slavery and racism with graffiti is surprising, I'm not sure if future generations will look at us in disgust for making vandalism illegal.
Pro-graffiti people are the finest example of NIMBYs I've ever seen. You love graffiti except when it's on your property. You couldn't care less about the property owner's rights. They should suck it up so your urban life experience is all real and edgy and cool and sh*t.
"What a ridiculous question. It ends where the law defines it."
Ok, I was playing the role of devil's advocate slightly, and while I do observe the "relative" world, I don't necessarily agree with most of it. Stating that it's, "the law", doesn't really hold much ground as an argument; it's pretty much akin to stating, "cause, Bob, said so!" To bring up M's point again, laws are artificial and will change over time; it was the law to own slaves at one time and women couldn't vote, etc...
Different cultures, have different attitudes towards "owning" things, and I contend nothing can be truly possessed. When white man arrived in North America, they butted heads with the natives, because of different attitudes to private property... White man had this preposterous notion that one could divvy up nature and own it (perhaps stemming from their belief of God given Stewardship over the land; which is sort of a frightening notion in itself, consulting fictitious texts to justify dominion over animals and trees).
You'd have to be a pretty special boy for that sort of entitlement. Are you separate from the rest of the universe? Possession is an illusion, and isn't an intrinsic "law". You should learn to think for yourself, instead of getting trapped in the thoughts of others and letting the "outside" dictate what's going on "inside".
I'll end on this little nugget to mull over:
” Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find that you cannot eat money.”
- Cree Indian Prophecy
"Nothing can be owned"
So, who owns the laptop that I'm typing on? I'm pretty sure it is me.
Oh wait a second......."white man", "Cree Indian Prophecy"
Okay, so you're THAT guy.
(also, I'm pretty sure that Cree Indian might be redundant)
"I bought it with my own money, it's mine!"
/facepalm
You can use derision all you like to deflect actually having to think, but that's not quite the way arguements work.
I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate as a start and perhaps move up from there?
And the Cree are pretty much the largest group of First Nations peole in Canada; so nothing really redundant there.
*hugs*
Ps. Thanks for the excellent links on here, those who posted them. :)
As in, a Cree is an indian/native adjective, so Cree Indian is like saying Canuck Canadian, etc.
Also, the first section of your comments does not make sense, and commenting on ownership of property isn't derision, but talking about the your personal, and incredibly subjective beliefs on ownership however is derision.
And it's too late for you to not be mistaken a fool, I figured it out after your first comment.
Also, you can argue the views of non-ownership all you like. It's not the reality we live in.
Graffiti "artists" will continue to tag buildings they feel are theirs to deface but I doubt the property owner forced to cut into this week's revenue to clean it to avoid city fines appreciates your little brand of personal expression.
Maybe if these "artists" stopped to think of the implications of tagging beyond their own public masturbation they'd realize it's just selfish.
I'm no big fan of the 'Law' either, having been on the short end of it more than once, but it is what it is. Look at every backwater nation on earth and you will find that the root problems it has are the disrespect or absence of law. It is the Anglo-Canadian rule of law that has greatly contributed to this becoming among the greatest nations on earth.
Graffiti is defacement, no amount of rationalization is going to alter that.
Graffiti would not be graffiti if it was legal... that would just make it a mural at the property owners request like a billboard...
I see graffiti as an artistic medium. When it is done well, I think it is a pleasure to see and experience, and I would be very saddened to see this medium go. But I also acknowledge that there are laws in place to protect people who have to pay to maintain and fix their property--and suffer as a result of any public defacement. In my mind, there is little argument to be made against ownership. I see a beautiful mural as art; there will always be another who will see it as vandalism, and if that happens to be the owner, they ought not to suffer the consequences of removing it.
That said, I think restricting the sale of spray-paint cans to minors is hardly an effective solution to the problem. Minors can easily still find ways to get cans and spray paint on walls when no one is looking. Outlawing spray paint will only be enforcing the graffiti's premise as a counter-intuitive form of expression and/or authenticity.
!!??? WOW.. but it's OK to have 30 FOOT ADVERTISEMENTS and BILLBOARDS everywhere with naked women on their knees before a bottle of Vodka? Or ad's all over the subway telling us to get our FLU SHOT? Or ads in the bloody urinals with 16 year old girls glossed up like whores telling us to buy something, oder something, watch something?? Ads Plastered on the sides of streetcars with images of toilet paper, banks, shoes, purses, bikinis, etc... WTF?
Get your heads on straight people. Who are the REAL OFFENDERS?? BILLBOARDS pollute and contaminate our daily lives EVERYWHERE. 1/2 of them are ILLEGAL and they are NOT ART. While at least 1/2 the stuff I see as good graffiti is Colourful, Expressive, Vibrant and Unique.. and best of all GRAFFITI"S NOT TRYING TO SELL ME SOME SHIT!!
Enough said. Graffiti over Billboards any day. Billboards should be painted over!
"It's the Law, gosh darn it. Don't question authority." Baa Baa. Moooo Moooo.
(And I am 39 not 21, and live a responsible life- Doesn't mean I agree with all the "laws" out there.)
And you're a mature, wise success because you 'own' property and assets? That gives foundation to your opinion? Hahaha. That's like saying George Bush was an intelligent man, since he was President of the United States... and we ALL know that is not true.
You're a cog in a wheel, an insignifigant creature who follows rules without question, pro creates without passion, and exists without one unique thought in your programmed little brain. You bought a house in the suburbs, have 2.5 kids, a full time job with benefits and you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the whole human race. Your only purpose is to consume whatever you're told to buy and maintain a facade of plastic perfection, untainted by graffiti, a crooked tooth, weeds on the lawn, a scar on your child's knee... (The latter of which are all pretty lovely when viewed with an open mind.)
Your opinion here is null and void due to the lack of real, raw Life Experience. You are voiceless in a world of colourful ideas. You are as grey and dull as the back alley walls that are just waiting to be painted by a hand sparked with an inspiration.
How do you keep your bubble from bursting?
Go back to living in your perfect, unsullied little world, much akin to an IKEA catalogue and SEARS insert.
Remember: "There is a crack in everything. That's how the Light gets in." Leonard Cohen
No one is as unique as they think with regards to how they look, what they buy, where they live.
I hop you're post makes you feel better about who you are and what you believe, because it does little else.
Unwanted grafitti is removed at the expense of the property owner, and benefits only the tagger's ego.
You talk like being a cog is a bad thing. Machines work because of cogs. What have you armchair anarchists contributed to society lately? Certainly not your "art", certainly if it has to be scrubbed off a building wall because it's unwanted.
You assume just because a person lives unlike you their opinion doesn't matter in something they unwillingly became a participant in? That's why no one respects your opinion, or your graffiti.
I'm sure there's a fancy proverb for that but I don't need someone else to convey my thoughts for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
If you've been anywhere in Manitoba or Saskatchewan you would never say that...
You clearly dislike the distasteful tagging of hoodlums that share in your art form but what in the city encourages "these little 13 year old kids who cant even draw a stick man" and not "legitimate" vandals?
How would you propose the city handle such a sensitive topic then? You've acknowledged kids tagging is a problem but how can we allow some people to draw on public property and private businesses without permission without letting others do the same? And who ultimately gets to make the distinction between art and vandalism?
I'm curious about the work you or other "artists" do though, if it's so worth keeping. Any examples?
It is a valid point that it can be seen as an art form, and I think the hype around Banksy highlights that. However I personally haven't seen anything of value in the city, and would actually like to be enlightened.
Have you BEEN to cities in the states? As far as I'm concerned you guys have it so good. Toronto for a city of its size is incredibly clean, well organized, pretty etc.
The graffiti here is minimal (i dont even think my whole neighbourhood has a single piece in it... let alone on peoples cars and garages?) and what is around is gorgeous.
Like people have said tags happen, cracking down only increases cred, but I would encourage you to look at the huge pieces in kensington or spadina and see how gorgeous they are. If anything I think the city should be putting more effort into redirecting those "misguided youth" by funding mural projects and the like (most graffiti artists from my experience will leave a muraled wall completely alone, because its already a piece of art)
Some universities and communities have designated places for people to get up that creates a legal way for people to express themselves, same idea as having a skate park.
fighting graffiti isn't going to do much if anything decrease the quality of what is out there.
The redundant part was "indian" not Cree, ie. when you say you are Cree, it also implies that you are native, indian, etc.
Thanks for the comment though.
"Thanks Keven, thanks for illustrating that you're not that bright."
Thanks for making it personal... :P
BTW, your use of "thanks" is redundant in the case of your statement... You may want to check your own b/s before spewing it onto me.
I'm not sure if it's similar to the "if you believe that, than I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you" kind of comment or a florida swamplands comment.
It just doesn't make sense, and then tagging it with a Hypocrite, not sure if you get this or not, but I'll try to fill you in, but the second "thanks" in my comment isn't redundant, it's called reiterating something for effect, for the sake of clarity and purpose. I'm sick of making comments here, but you keep writing ridiculous comments, and I just don't have the restraint.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Keven
To those who responded thoughtfully and critically, thanks.