Christie Pits Temporary Dump Protest: Beautiful City, Clean City?
When the city announced on Thursday that it would be opening 19 mini dumpsites to deal with the build up of garbage brought on by the current outside workers strike, I was initially pleased. Although it seemed to signify that the city was digging in its heels and preparing for a long strike, I liked that it was offering an alternative to storing garbage in fly-riddled, rank heaps just outside of my door.
When I read that Christie Pits and a host of other Toronto parks were included on this list of "temporary drop-off sites," however, my attitude quickly changed. I wasn't angry and frustrated so much as I was confused. Why, I wondered, would the city want to use green space for the reception of garbage? Surely in a city of Toronto's size there must be better places?
Apparently I wasn't the only one asking these questions. As my wife and I have a plot in the community garden at Christie Pits, I received an email notifying me that a protest had been planned for Friday the 26th by the Friends of Christie Pits. Eager to hear what other residents had to say, I decided to attend.
Although I have a healthy bit of cynicism when it comes to community protests - so many of which place self-interest above any sense of the greater good - I also think that they're absolutely crucial to the democratic process. This is particularly true at the municipal level, where getting the attention one's councillor and effecting change is well within the realm of possibility. That said, I wasn't attending as a protester, but as someone who felt the need to learn more about the situation. To participate in protest, I've always thought, necessitates sound knowledge of the state of affairs in question.
Well, a little learning is exactly what I got/did. Although the turn-out wasn't particularly great - maybe a couple hundred people or so - and Councillor Joe Pantalone was nowhere to be found, the organizers did get the ball rolling in terms of voicing their dissent. And most of what was said made a lot of sense. Regardless of the fact that the organizers and most of the attendees of the protest couldn't help but be biased when it came to the city's decision to use Christie Pits as a temporary dump site, a number of excellent criticisms and alternatives were offered throughout the protest/open mike session.
One of the first points made certainly struck a chord with me. Despite the protest's location at Christie Pits, organizers sought to distance themselves from the NIMBY (not in my backyard) position, claiming solidarity with the numerous other parks on the temporary dumpsite list. From my standpoint, this lent greater credibility to the proceedings. Instead of a bunch of people whining about their bad luck, the key item of protest was the fact that parks had been chosen for the storage of garbage in the first place.
The most convincing comments in this capacity were those made by Boris Steipe, a resident of Crawford Street and a doctor with a biochemical background. Steipe pointed out that despite the city's request that residents using the dumpsites double bag their garbage, it was clear that the garbage stored in the hockey rink at Christie Pits was already leaking. And when it comes to garbage, leakage is a big problem. The cesspool that results from a large-sized garbage leak is a breeding ground for maggots and a major attraction for rats. Compounding the problem is the virtual certainty that toxic insecticides would have to be used to control the type of infestation that would arise in the event of a long strike. These aren't exactly the types of things you want kids playing around.
But beyond these criticisms and the voicing of frustration over the fact that Councillor Pantalone's staff assured Christie Pits residents and community groups that the park would not be used as a dumpsite, what I found most compelling about the protest were the alternatives offered. Steipe offered up the land other the Gardiner Expressway and the Port lands as options that would allow the city to circumvent the need to use park lands. In the case of the Gardiner, its elevated structure would provide a makeshift roof that would prevent the garbage from being exposed to excess rain, something that, to my knowledge, none of the parks can offer.
I'm quite sure that one of the reasons the city has chosen to use parks as temporary dumpsites is for the purposes of coverage and convenience. A quick look at the map of the dumpsites - many of which, it should be noted, are transfer stations - shows pretty even distribution throughout the city. But I wonder to what degree residents would prioritize this convenience over the potential harm caused by the use of parks as mini dumps. I suppose only time will tell.
Comments (62)
"A doctor with a biochemical background" - what exactly is this supposed to mean, and what authority is it meant to convey? I mean, I'm a doctor with a biochemical background too - a PhD - but I don't claim that gives me any expertise in public health.
Too bad the city couldn't take over some parking lots to use as garbage dumps. A big pile of garbage in front of Walmart might make people think twice before buying so much crap.
Is the city simply trying to make the union look bad by doing this? Seems like this strike is quickly becoming a game of chicken between the city and the union and Toronto residents are the losers no matter what.
Toronto citizens love their parks year round. I'm surprised someone thought this would actually be a good idea, especially after people left garbage at the park to PROTEST the strike and got a warning from the city.
"A quick look at the map of the dumpsites - many of which, it should be noted, are transfer stations - shows pretty even distribution throughout the GTA."
You mean throughout Toronto.
"But I wonder to what degree residents would prioritize this convenience over the potential harm caused by the use of parks as mini dumps. I suppose only time will tell."
For someone who doesn't own a car, it's not a matter of convenience.
As far as prioritizing their own convenience, residents of this city have a long and proud history, starting not the least with dumping garbage in the closest inconspicuous spot one or two days into the strike.
"Too bad the city couldn't take over some parking lots to use as garbage dumps. A big pile of garbage in front of Walmart might make people think twice before buying so much crap."
I can only imagine the "Miller the socialist" cries if they could, and they did.
Centennial Park in Etobicoke used to be a garbage dump. That ski hill is actually a pile of garbage covered with soil, grass, and trees. I wonder what other parks were originally garbage dumps in their previous form.
The bigger issue I see is how are non-driving residents going to get it down there? Taxi's won't take them. Will the TTC? How about if you have more than one bag per person per trip? Yes some people here don't seem to mind the travel but the city has to think of EVERYONE.
And parking lots? Will the city rent the space from Walmart? Or will it be generously donated?
Exactly.....dump it on the wellies and hide behind the ole "safety of the children and shit leaking into the environment" excuse.
Yes, I do indeed mean Toronto. Thanks for pointing that out. I will make that change for accuracy, but duly note the source of the correction.
With regard to your point about convenience, I do, however, have to disagree. It seems to me -- and I can only say "seems" because I've yet to hear the city reveal the logic of the locations of the dumpsites -- that by offering 19 different sites, they are trying to reduce the distance people have to travel to use the mini dumps. Sure, I'm sure it's still inconvenient in general, but it's a relative matter. What if there was only one site? Wouldn't that be more inconvenient?
I don't want to play the role of the city's defender, but in the one part of the last paragraph that you don't quote, I think it's pretty clear that I'm trying to divine what logic informs its decision rather than claiming that the situation is actually convenient per se. For the city, coverage appears to equal convenience. But, as the protest shows, not all residents agree.
Relax. The garbage is on cement. Yes its in a park, yes its not ideal, but this is a strike we all need to Buck up!!!
Parks are not dumps NEITHER are parking lots or anywhere else that isn't a dump. So, thus said, therefore no where is good until the garbage is in an actual dump BUT do we want to pay for retirements and more taxes or nip this union in the bud now!
The general consensus amongst tourists is hilarious so far. All we need now is to fill that rink to overflowing, toss in a tire fire and we're Springfield.
I think the most appropriate place to dump is on property used by either council or the unions, actually at both. It should help move negotiations along nicely. Maybe on the union's. I am a union member and supporter (different union), and I do not think anything should be 'rolled back' from them, because it will never be returned in a boom; however, the city did want to continue negotiating past the deadline. It is the union which gratuitously refused in this case.
People have to be proactive and prepare for a long strike, even if it doesn't end up that way.
Take your "wet garbage" and keep it in the freezer until it's over.
Leave excess packaging at the supermarket when you're bagging your groceries, most businesses have private waste pick up.
Garbage dumps by the lake make sense, since it's easy access to removal when the time comes, but also with the rodent and insect problem..parks in residential neighbourhoods are not a good idea.
BTW, why is the only one by the lake at Sunnyside?
Where is one in the Beach?
It's Toronto with the problem.
Etobicoke has private pick up.
Toronto needs to look into that to avoid this in the future
Please!
1. The city is not digging in its "heals;" it is digging in its heels.
2. Please make it clear whether you are really talking about "affecting" change (that is, having an effect on the change that's already taken place) or "effecting" change (that is, making the change, itself). I know which one you meant, but that is not the point. The point is to communicate.
I know this all sounds pedantic, but the point of language (and, yes, spelling) is to communicate effectively (note: not affectively). Doing so will only serve to strengthen your argument (and, also, it will make you look less pretentious or, at the very least, more justified in your pretension).
By the way, there can only be TWO alternatives ("alter" being the Latin word for "the other of two"). There can, however, be many options. In the future, please choose the one that says, "proper grammar and spelling."
(Note: Changes were made to the original post in accordance with this comment. D. F.)
Yes, the garbage at Christie Pits is in an outdoor rink, on a cement surface. Does that make it safe?
Orkin has been contracted to spray the site regularly. Protestors stopped them this morning when a guy in a gas mask drove up to spray but wouldn't reveal what chemicals he would be applying. The city managers working the site say it's safe but refuse to provide details.
Now it's raining and the rink doesn't drain. That means about a foot of wet rotting garbage with pesticide, rodenticide, and various other chemicals leaching into the cement (which is porous), and eventually the surrounding area.
NIMBY protestors are pretty funny, especially when they say, "We're not NIMBY protestors."
Knock yourself out protesting. Prevent the Orkin guy from spraying, and then, later, complain about the flies and the maggots... shoot yourself in the feet all you want. The fact is, that rink is unused until the winter, isn't right next to anyone's house, and is a perfectly fine place to store trash indefinitely. It's even enclosed, to keep the trash in and the raccoons out. Couldn't ask for a better location.
If you've got a set of better locations, let's see your map of trash storage areas. Let's see it!
It is not unused during the summer. The rink and it is used by local residents for for pick-up games of basketball and ball hockey. A children's soccer league has it's headquarters in a small brick building a couple of feet from the rink. All their summer activities have been cancelled as a result of the dump being opened in this location. The dump site is directly beside a community centre used by thousands. And, two houses (both with small children living there) back directly onto this dump site (with another ~200 residents in the immediate area).
Anyone who walks by can see that what you've written is a lie. The Christie Pits site was poorly chosen and affects many - not just those living within feet of the site.
Alternatives:
Municipal parking lots
School parking lots (closed for the summer)
Unused city land under the Gardiner
Industrial lands near streetcar yards
Personally, I don't see why the 19 community sites needed to be opened at all. We are only in the first week of this strike. People can reduce their waste and hang onto what they have for now. Failing that, they can drop their garbage at one of the transfer stations (those without cars can carpool, use an autoshare, or pool cash and employ an independent garbage removal service).
School parking lots are a bad idea...many have daycare centres and summer camps functioning over the holidays and they're also in residential neighbourhoods, often only a few feet from homes that would most certainly get the rodent overflow from the dumps.
Actually, you can have many alternatives to any one thing; seeing as each alternate option is individually opposed to an original (singular) issue, there could be many alternative solutions to any one given problem.
And I thought I was an overly anal English Specialist... goddamn. You're lucky there's no spelling mistakes for me to pounce on in your comments, Zoe ... SO FAR! :)
p.s. My condo corporation has done a fabulous job of keeping our building's outdoor bins privately serviced... just a small huzzah for the condo dwellers :)
Fair enough. A school parking lot wouldn't be my first choice as an alternative either. But Christie Pits is in a residential neighbourhood, homes back directly onto the dump site, and residents will certainly see an increase in the rodent population - not just during the strike, but for a long time afterwards.
Those are, indeed, egregious errors. And, I have to admit, I find that level of sloppiness unacceptable. So, apologies to my readers for that.
Without highjacking this thread of comments by going too far into a discussion of grammar, I hope readers will permit me the latitude to make two points.
1. Rest assured, Zoe, that despite the immaculate grammar of your comment, you come off as hopelessly pretentious. I seriously question the motives of your comment, despite its paternalistic and didactic undertones.
2. Regarding "alternatives:" In addition to the excellent point that Corina makes, you might do well to read up on some linguistic theory (Bakhtin would be a good start). With all the stress you put on the importance of effective communication, your citation of the etymology of "alternate" is, at best, misguided. The centrifugal forces at work upon (and within) language dictate that the use of "alternatives" to mean "other options" is at little risk of being misunderstood. Although it may not be faithful to the origin of the word -- a point that Cornia draws into question -- it remains an example of effective (not affective!) communication.
You're very right.
That's why people need to be proactive and freeze the contents of their little green bins and wait to throw it away when this is all over.
It would be great if people would actually do that (freeze and store green bin content). While I'm sure some are, many people are taking advantage of the temporary dump sites. Today, for example, a butcher came to the Christie Pits site to unload dead animal remains, double-bagged in normal household black garbage bags. He was turned away by the staff working the site but this kind of thing is happening a lot and you can imagine that not every person breaking the rules for waste disposal is caught. And where did the butcher go? To another site? To dump somewhere illegally? It makes you wonder.
Humans are so disappointing.
I'll never understand why people have no sense of what's right and wrong
Interestingly, Christie Pits (formerly Willowvale Park) used to house a dump in this exact location in the 1920s and '30s! Adjacent to sports fields, much like today. I believe it is landfilled now...a dump under the (temporary) dump, bizarrely enough. That said, I agree that parks are badly chosen sites for garbage disposal for most of the reasons cited above.
Why is it that garbage strikes bring out people's need to get rid of their waste, like, panicky-NOW-this-minute-or-I'll-choke-on-a-sea-of-my-own-waste? It's been one week! Come on, people! How about seriously trying to make less garbage? My household has a "large" size bin, and it's half full at the moment. (And I've got a kid in diapers right now! :) ) Don't we need to make serious efforts to reduce waste regardless of striking workers?
The parking lots at the various city services that are shut down are not being used so that's where the fu*king garbage drop of spots should have been, not the parks.
Maybe we can appreciate the actually workers who keep Christie Pits and all of the other parks pristine. And the amount of garbage pilling up actually shows you how much these guys get rid of for us. It is unfair in any case to expect "rollbacks" for these guys after counsel gave themselfs a raise.
The garbage now in Christie Pits is coming from all over downtown and midtown Toronto. Except for the city opening this site as a temporary dump, all this waste would have never found it's way here. While I won't disparage the work of city employees, I can't "appreciate" anyone who would use local residents as pawns in this game.
Yes, open, totally unenclosed parking lots adjacent to houses would be a much superior alternative to an enclosed rink.... not.
The nearest house to the Christie Pits location is over 100 feet away. The second nearest is about 150 feet away, the third nearest is maybe 300 feet away. There are just about zero locations in the city that can come anywhere close to that amount of separation.
I doubt you'll even see rodents. Raccoons can't get into or out of that rink at night, nor can mice, and even for rats it would be quite difficult.
Come on, I want naysayers to provide SPECIFIC LOCATIONS that are superior to the Christie Pits rink.
Time to get local 416 back to work. They actually care about the community and take pride in keeping it clean. Pressure your elected officails and tell them you want the workers back so our kids can again enjoy the park. Let them know that the work they do everyday is respected and appriciated
What the hell are you talking about? The nearest homes back right onto the rink, which is filled with garbage. The other residents of Crawford can see and smell the dump very clearly.
You'd have to pin "whatever the cost" to the bottom of that. The rollback is unfair but if the city can't afford it what should they do? (And believe me if they rolled back their own pay increase I'd be all for it, but that wouldn't cut it).
+1 to 'Got Trash'? Tell us where a better location is. Don't just tell me it's not your problem.
Google maps shows me there ARE two properties very close to the rink (which sucks), but I haven't seen a municipal parking lot that isn't closer to a building and closed off to raccoons either.
And tell us how you plan to get people's garbage there before you suggest the Port lands or Gardiner...
I wish 416 appreciated their jobs as much as we appreciate their work. It's an insult in this economy with so many people without work.
This sector of workers is not hard done by. The rest of us can only wish to be appreciated and compensated for their work as much as they are.
The problem is that it's hard to appreciate what you have while you have it.
It's a natural human defect.
Who left their garbage in the park as a protest? Are you sure about that? I hadn't heard anything of that but it seems a pretty stupid way to protest if they did. It's like protesting public safety by running people down in your car.
I won't comment on the utility of using enclosed areas in parks as temporary dumpsites since, other than contracting out the removal of garbage to the dumpsite, I have no better ideas. However, I think that these people should also have signs blaming the union and not just the city council. The union has caused this mess and they have deliberately harrassd and hindered people from dumping at the initial drop-off points forcing the temporary sites to a large degree.
Council doesn't deserve all the blame alone, let us heap it on the union as well. Labour issues aside, the union doesn't have to illegally block city sites and harangue citizens who don't make contract decisions.
Zoe,
I am in love. Your post is like poetry to my eyes.
Let's get married and raise little pedants together. They will be, oh, so adorably and syntactically correct.
He has an idea of what kind of chemicals are being sprayed and a concern for the health of his neighbours and family. Who said he is an expert in public health? Who is and where are they? Has the city sent one? Does the city care? Well he does, so lets start from there. And why should he not be listened too if he cares and knows something about these chemicals we don;t. The point is all of these people living around christie pits are dealing with this and have something different to bring to the table of dealing with it. We all have to do something and we should listen and help each other instead of critizsizing over job titles.
for the 416 union to accept consessions would be a loss for the entire working class. especially after 5 other contracts were settled without any changes, this ontop of counsel giving themselves more. the workers care about there workplace and a major reason christie pits is a great park is because of 416 this will end when the public demands the city be fair
bullshit it's about greed and bullying.....strike all you want, sure but get the hell out of the way of people trying to keep the city clean and dump their trash,you don't own the dumps you idiots, the citizens that pay for them do.....just like those nice easy cranes on the sides of the trucks, to make your job easier....don't like how much you're bein payed, not happy with the benefits?Well,go back to school like the rest of us would have to and incur even more debt..
Sorry, but the other contracts? The police contracts you mean? the firefighters?? Hmmm. I'm not sure they're in the same league.
We already do "realize the work the union does" that's why we don't want to cave to their demands and we want concessions. The bankable sick days never should have been given. Job security is a myth in the real world so making it an issue in this strike is ridiculous, That gem forces the city to keep people for life, regardless of their utility, after working for 10 years. The city only wants to take away the extravagance from the contracts and line them up with reality and the union talks as if they were asked to give their legs.
"for the 416 union to accept consessions(sic) would be a loss for the entire working class" How is that? The union already does better than the majority of the working class. How does public sector employee benefits help private sector workers? How would we be hurt?
Councilors should give back their COLA and all city unions should renegotiate new contracts with concessions (except non-union staff who just accepted the hit and are picking up the slack right now) - especially the lame police we have who do nothing and watch their union buddies bully the public illegally - blocking dumps, clean-up crews and allegedly physically assaulting at least one man, David Chung.
Our city is held hostage by one union after the other. It has nothing to do with socialism, so please ease up on that riff, this is pure, dyed in the wool, capitalist greed exhibited by these unions.
Here's what you can do with you garbage.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/658609
1) Solves your hassle
2) Proceeds to a great charity.
Of course the union looks like the bad people in this because peoples need are not being met. It is not just the fire dept and police unions that have settled it was also the toronto housing, toronto hydro,ttc,and the elected officials that got a fair deal. People keep saying the union is greedy meanwhile this is NOT about more it is about things that were negotiated for decades. This goes to show you how important the 416 union is as they keep this city clean as is shown as being a world class city. Do you think that strikers are happy being on a picket line? Give your head a shake nobody is getting paid a dime for 10 days then a tiny 40 dollars a day. Why do you think Christie Pits is such a lovely place to go who do you think picks up after the public and gives the kids a clean safe place to got to. This takes place at every park in the city be it in a rich or poor area. And another fact out of the 24000 people on strike only 1000 of these workers are garbage truck workers, there are 23000 other people you need to realize this many of these people are proffesionals working in public service. How many of you guys have kids in hockey? Ever played in a city run arena. Always spotless and safe for everyone to enjoy. Rec centers spotless and safe for everyone to enjoy. There is no room for rollbacks after city council who by the way is enjoying there new raise by not working as they cant do there job without the clerical staff on strike think about. Whats more important to you your council who does nothing or the workers on the FRONT lines who keep this city going
If you look around many many different companys are having cutbacks and benefits being slashed andd this is a horrible thing. But look at the facts Canada is nowhere near as bad as the MEDIA makes it sound. How many people have to work 2-3 jobs just to make ends meet while the fat cats drive there caddys and spend extra days at there cottage or on vacation off the backs of the workers. It is time that the cutting back stops if it doesnt people with have to work 4 and 5 jobs due to the shrinking wages and hours. Look at Nortel the CEO gets MILLIONS and the workers get ZERO. If you are reading this and are just a working class person this fight is for you as well
Wow...I'm consistently amazed at how out of touch with the real world that many city workers are. Take a lesson from GM and look and see where this is taking your jobs.
After this strike, all those who can will move to private removal companies...and with the angry responses from residents to their city councilor's perhaps even private contracts for residential pick up. Constantly holding the taxpayer over the barrel does not endear unions to the average person...most people can't empathize with your plight because they don't have jobs, or don't get half of what you do in the first place.
That whole "the man is holding us back" argument is old, and doesn't really hold water in a country where even the poorest of the poor and homeless live better than 70% of the rest of the world.
Get a grip.
Private contractors were proven to be more expensive when it was tried in east york get your facts straight. As far as GM it was the WHITE COLLAR that did them in please again the internet has many fact that you can research
Blaming the WORKERS is the wrong thing to do and AGAIN the garbage workers only consist of 1000 of the 24000 people on strike THIS IS ABOUT MORE THEN GARBAGE. It is wrong to attack the working people we are the ones who keep this city running. It is also against the law to replace us so again check the facts. We are alos the people who test your water,who run the arenas and rec centers for your kids,who run city hall as counsel cant run their meetings without the clerical staff,pot holes,water mains,street sweeping,gardening,ketting the needles and glass out of the sandboxes,snow removal,also thousands and thousands of proffesional including EMS workers engineers,city planers. I want to explain to you that the union is not asking for anything extra they do not want to give things that were negotiated for years and years. How can the city expect this when they have settled 5 different contracts and given counsel a raise. if you choose in your workplace to give in and let it happen that is your choice. By having a union it prevents the little guy from taking the hits. We also live in this city and pay taxes, it is alos very hard for us to succeed in this city. keep bashing the workers if it makes you feel better, you should be focusing on counsel who cant even run meetings without us meanwhile they are getting paid (including thier raise) to not even go to work
I just spent the last 6 months unemployed, and nearly homeless. Denied for nearly any sort of 'assistance' from the government. literally unable to eat for days sometimes ..........
i'll take your job if you don't want it. i'll take it with no paid sick days. I'll run the meetings for people if you'd like. In this economy, I'll take what I can get. The counsel isn't holding the city hostage. You are.
Well if there was no unions there would be alot more people in your shoes. To bad your company just got rid of you when you were no longer needed. Happens all the time in the private sector people just get tossed out the door.
We know more than just garbage is on strike and I think those people are getting too sweet a deal too. Have you ever tried to get good service from the public sector? Damn near impossible. And what public rinks are you referring to? A 2007 Toronto Star article has this to say about rinks "Most respondents took time to explain their choices at some length, with several themes emerging, led by this one: Clean matters. The No.1 negative was poor maintenance, dirty washrooms and general lack of cleanliness." http://www.thestar.com/article/173275 and I know I heard not too long ago that many rinks were in rough shape. The rec centres can be in equally bad shape, trust me.
And as for water testers, Walkerton showed how that can go. Snow removal is contracted out, our streets are in really bad shape, gardening is questionable, and I could go on. EMS does rock for the most part though.
The union is asking for more when the auditor-general says that the city's contracts are out of line with the rest of the municipalities. They already had too much and won't let it go. So more was already on the table. They are asking for more cost of living increases and all the other negotiations (hostage takings) were out of whack anyway.
As for the word "fair" you and the union toss around, that is a relative term and I ask you to define "fair". Fair as compared to what? Not having a job and paying more property tax to be poorly served and insulted?
we are not holding anyone hostage we are fighting for the working class. Its to bad your company tossed you out but they must have used the old "economic downturn" excuse. that excuse has to end it is bullcrap. If you are working class u will supprt the fellow worker. Why do people want everyone to have less?why do people want nobody to have more then them? absolutly pathetic the workers deserve more and dont deserve to be thrown out the door
maybe the next time you find work you will form a union to protect your rights. i worked in the private sector for 10 years before workong for the city and I once hurt my back(construction) I was let go with the excuse that there wasnt any work (this during the biggest boom ever) all because I hurt my back and was no longer valid to them. If you people want to work under those circumstances them by all means go ahead. I choose to be united and fight for workers rights
So much of this arguing is happening because people are fed up about the garbage issue. While this may represent only a small portion of the workers, it represents a large portion of the impact. So while it may be factually incorrect to be putting the majority of the blame on the shoulders of the garbage collectors, it's rational from a citizens perspective. I am sure the people affected by not having day care are pretty pissed too, there's just a lot less of them
I will repeat: So much of this arguing is happening because people are fed up about the garbage issue. The resulting arguments (who is right and who is wrong, what the union does or does not deserve) is a result of peoples rational inability to respect a union who does not respect the people of Toronto. You want us to support you and give you the respect that you argue that you deserve? Then give the people respect, and let us deal with the mess we are in, because of BOTH parties, the city AND the union.
And re: "It is wrong to attack the working people we are the ones who keep this city running." Please. Feel free to argue that your jobs are important. They are. Running the parks, day care, garbage collection, etc.- no one needs to be reminded that these are important services. However once you take the stance that your jobs are MORE important than people in private sector, non-unionized jobs, you loose even more support. From the sounds of it, you seem to put yourselves above all other professions, unionized or not. Again, how does the union expect to get respect, when this is the sentiment that I have seen in many pro-union posts on here. You job is important. It is not more important than mine, no matter what I do.
Re: "I want to explain to you that the union is not asking for anything extra they do not want to give things that were negotiated for years and years." When I started my job, we got bonuses. It had always happened in the history of my company, for pretty much as long as anyone could remember. It was not contractual but it was an unwritten rule. Until the economy hit the shitter. No more bonuses. People weren't happy, but they understood. This is a sign of the times. Things change. Just because you were given something in the past when times were good does not entitle you to get it in the future.
There's so much entitlement here it makes me sick.
I don't care if you have more or less I care that you're stopping services and preventing people from doing it themselves by picketing dump sites.
I care that you're claiming your working for workers rights when workers not in your goddamn union just want their garbage taken out, the services they pay taxes for.
I care that this is all in your own self interest and the public at large is just your leverage.
Economic downturn excuse? Tell that to the businesses that have folded and the people who've had to fired longtime loyal employees because they just can't afford it. Because I assure you it's not just "The Man" out to get you.
I worked without a union just fine until they came in and forced the management to give hours to seniority over skill, no matter how lazy and incompetent and rude they were, and with job security of course. I had practically no hours and had to leave anyways, and that place of business went to s**t. The union heads taking a cut of my paycheck weren't looking out for me.
Yes, Mike W...YES....I've seen what you say over and over again...and not just in businesses that have gone under but businesses that are currently struggling.
Union Reps often care less about what they're doing than how they look to their members. They'll fight for the loudest and throw others who deserve to be protected under the bus.
A union is a business like any other.
If one of their members is on the verge of losing their home and has to cross the picket line, the union and other members will make them suffer more than any employer could.
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