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Toronto's Forgotten Landmarks: The Rochdale Project

Posted by Jonathan Castellino / February 2, 2009

The Rochdale Project  The infamous Innis College Rochdale Project of the late 1960s, one of Toronto's greatest tragedies, was born of the best intentions. A statue at the corner of Bloor West and Huron street commemorates this dark chapter of the city's history, and even this is overshadowed by the building itself. The statue, entitled "The Unknown Student," is a sullen monument to the University of Toronto students who died in this education co-op gone horribly wrong.

The Rochdale Project
The tragedy was produced by a combination of two forces: the pan-liberation ideology of the time, and changes to Toronto's zoning laws. At that time, Yorkville was a haven of drug-use, a faux-utopia for those seeking refuge from the drudgery of ordinary life. However, the neighborhood was changing, and the gentrification of Yorkville forced the motorcycle gangs which supplied its drug-rings to move westward - at the same time that the Rochdale project was being built.
Rochdale-Project.jpg
The name "Rochdale" alludes to an English township of the same name which became the world's first co-op society. Unfortunately, due to poor zoning, this building (the sister of the Tartu building across the street) soared to seven times its originally planned size. Its sprawling mass made it difficult to police, and it quickly became a hive for crime and villainy. Ironically, during its transition from idealist experiment to inner-city slum, co-op rules remained in place: one person, one vote - even if the voters were bikers and squatters. Despite the presence of the occasional undercover cop, things continued to spiral out of control, with gangs forming their own police force. One news source from the day called the Rochdale Project the "largest drug distribution warehouse in North America".

The Ontario government finally resorted to desperate measures, and set up an independent security system, but the bikers infiltrated even this. In 1975, the Rochdale Project declared complete insolvency and, in its final days, police could be seen dragging people away from the building, which is now titled the Senator A. Croll apartments.
The Rochdale Project
In the course of my research about this building, I have been in contact with several individuals, who all refuse to be named, and whose stories confirm what little is documented about this black mark on the history on the University, and of the city. What at first sounded like an urban myth - a grossly exaggerated tale of 1960s drug-use and misplaced idealism - turned out to be true. The tragedy of the Rochdale Project is an untold story, whose victims (the bodies of the U of T students which were found after the final police raids) are commemorated only by a twisted figure in black stone.

Discussion

92 Comments

Matt Mernagh / February 2, 2009 at 01:11 pm
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hilarious! ive met and had great conversations about Rochdale with people who lived there. all who love to be named. it's sad the venue closed. though it's kind of ironic that its a senior's home, b/c the original residents are now old enough to begin returning to Rochdale. wonder if it all go to pot again?
Marc Lostracco / February 2, 2009 at 01:12 pm
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So what was the tragedy? You say there was a tragedy and that students died, but what exactly happened? Who died? Why? And then you say it the tragedy is an untold story. So I guess it's still untold.
Bemused Reader / February 2, 2009 at 01:13 pm
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Ummm... hardly a mystery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_College. Also: "bodies of the U of T students"?

While doubtless rather poetic, this piece clearly requires sources. And perhaps a gallon less melodrama.
Jonathan / February 2, 2009 at 01:47 pm
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The tragedy was that something which started with good intentions (free, co-op style university) was taken-over by biker gangs and criminals - I would have thought that this happening anywhere is self-evidently a tragedy?

The mystery is how it was able to run for so long; people at UofT don't really like talking about it (I found this out when i tried to write a piece on it for a college paper while attending the school). The TO archives don't have a lot of information (articles, etc), and a friend who is an ex-worker there told me that the University attempted to have the archives stripped of this, as well as info. about the Christ Church St. James 'mystery' I wrote a piece on a few months back (on here)...

I found out in the last few days that my girlfriend's father was a resident (non-student) there at the time! I wish I had spoken to him before writing this!

J->

James / February 2, 2009 at 01:56 pm
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I agree w/ Marc and Bemused. I'd like to see some sources re. thw "bodies of U of T students."

My research suggests that Rochdale was more of a free-thinking "college" that just became a drug haven. I'm interested to learn how your research suggests it was much more sinister than that.
Jerrold / February 2, 2009 at 02:00 pm
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How many people were found dead, and what was the cause of their deaths?
Shawn Micallef / February 2, 2009 at 02:01 pm
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Though I agree there is bit too melodramatic in the writing, glad Rochdale keeps coming up. Such a remarkable event in this city -- a city itself full of remarkable events and things that characteristically stay under the radar.

So many Toronto people around today have Rochdale connections, and many of our cultural institutions (Coach House Books, Theatre Passe Muraille,etc) came out of here.

We've got a bunch of [murmur] stories from people that were there, that can be heard here:

http://murmurtoronto.ca/place.php?284618

Note, the Unknown Student used to face the building, but when it became the retirement home, that seemed "weird" so it was turned to face the street.
Marc Lostracco / February 2, 2009 at 02:01 pm
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This is also the first time I've ever heard of that sculpture being a monument to dead students. Sources? I always thought it was an homage to the student/art community that lived there. Plus, the article mentions dead students twice...so...what's the story?

Otherwise, I can think of many other things that would better qualify as "one of Toronto's greatest tragedies" than a once-nice apartment building that turned dumpy.
Chester Pape replying to a comment from Bemused Reader / February 2, 2009 at 02:04 pm
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You need to strip the . off the end of the wikipedia URL for it to work

Rochdale was just to most visible of several somewhat similar stories. Similar stuff (drugs and bikers) also happened in the co-op apartment buildings at Waterloo (however, unlike Rochdale, WCRI managed to survive and is still active today).

Hardly a hidden story when there are at least three books and a documentary film and many web sites about the place.
Shawn Micallef / February 2, 2009 at 02:06 pm
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People jumped from the windows (rumours of pushing) and I believe there were some overdoses -- when the drugs got hard, bad things happened, as they do everywhere. I believe the Unknown Student was there when Rochdale opened, so it isn't a monument to the dead.

Forgot to mention two additional sources of info on this:

Essentiall viewing, Ron Mann's NFB doc "Dream Tower":

http://www3.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=31610

Reg Hartt often does his "The Night they Raided Rochdale" monologue. Excerpt here:

http://www.blacklistedjournalist.com/column27a.html
jen / February 2, 2009 at 02:09 pm
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Ron Mann made a documentary about Rochdale called "Dream Tower":

http://filmswelike.com/dvdswelike/mann/mann.html
Jonathan / February 2, 2009 at 02:20 pm
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Thanks for the feedback, guys - I didn't want to make this piece too long - more of a 'ohh...that building...neat' sorta thing - you'd be surprised how many people know nothing about it! As usual, a springboard for the interested, rather than an in-depth analysis...

As for deaths, many of the bodies found 'later' were unfortunately from overdosing; many of the 'jumpers' there are suspected to have been pushed - as someone mentioned above...

You guys know a lot about this place, but keep in mind, to many, it is a mystery ; P

Thanks!

Jonathan@blogto.com
Marc Lostracco / February 2, 2009 at 02:48 pm
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How many bodies were there? You might want to go easy on the hyperbole. "One of Toronto's greatest tragedies" with a sullen commemorative monument to "the bodies of the U of T students which were found after the final police raids" sounds like there was some sort of riot or massacre (rather than what seems like the truth, which was drug addicts overdosing periodically in a drug-infested building, which happens everywhere, all the time). The whole premise of this article is shaky and sensationalistic, but also mostly ignores the meaningful part of the story, which is what the building used to be home to in its heyday.
Annie replying to a comment from Jonathan / February 2, 2009 at 03:05 pm
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Even if you had spoken to him before writing this article, you wouldn't have had much to add, as his recollections are attempting to jump out a window and falling down the lobby stairs!

(Yes, he was one of the druggies-but he stopped that and became the best dad ever!).

a.

jen / February 2, 2009 at 03:17 pm
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According to this book on Rochdale, its inhabitants put up the sculpture themselves:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=Wc0I2KatfrgC&;pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=%22unknown+student%22+statue+toronto&source=bl&ots=Ln9LzAD_9v&sig=EqilaeIwIs5qYIcSuuzZcd87D6U&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

While it is a monument that reminds us of the history of this building, your wording suggests that it was a tribute specifically to the dead.

duthie replying to a comment from Michelle / February 2, 2009 at 03:46 pm
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Cause everything read on Wikipedia should be taken word for word as 100% valid. ;)
Jer / February 2, 2009 at 04:04 pm
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In the quest for ever higher density do we also increase the likelihood of concentrated misery.


Happily, urban planning is 'trying' (success of this to be determined) to shoe us away from single-class, hyper-cellular, confined hives, and the desperation and reclusiveness that breeds within them.


Though likely half-urban myth, the kernel of truth here is still a moral for 'our' future T.O. story.
Robot Parade / February 2, 2009 at 04:23 pm
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Here's a 1969 radio documentary in which residents and resource people discuss what Rochdale means to them.
http://archives.cbc.ca/society/youth/clips/3204/
Jonathan / February 2, 2009 at 04:23 pm
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Michelle: I am sorry you feel this way, but my sources were quite credible: Toronto City Archives, Innis College professor somewhat involved in the project, 5 former inhabitants, 2 of whom were involved in the educational aspects of the project, as well as bits and pieces down the line.

This is not 'reporting' - it is a blog about the city we love, and this was meant as a neat story that digs a bit below/behind an ordinarily mundane-looking building.

jonathan@blogto.com

Torontonian replying to a comment from Marc Lostracco / February 2, 2009 at 05:40 pm
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The sculpture was cast by Ed Apt. He was a Hungarian recently arrived to Canada. The sculpture was known as the "Unknown Student".

I surmise it's like a cenotaph such as to the Unknown Soldier as one finds in most cities. I surmise it has to deal with the anonymity of students in large lecture halls and being unknown to their professors. But that's merely a guess.

I can't remember Ed Apt's explanation for titling it the Unknown Student. I was busy typing up 1000 address labels for his invitations to the unveiling in April(?) or May 1969.
KSD / February 2, 2009 at 08:53 pm
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Love the article!! I used to live in and around the Annex and have pics of the Unknown Student but never knew the story or lore behind it...thanks...
Peter Lynn / February 2, 2009 at 10:27 pm
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I <i>still</i> don't know the story or lore behind it. This article couldn't possibly be more vague.
Shawn Micallef replying to a comment from Torontonian / February 2, 2009 at 11:21 pm
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Torontonian, are you pulling our leg? Try googling Ed Apt. It becomes co-ed apt -- co-educational apartment, the kind of thing Rochdale was.

I've written about Rochdale before, and looked into who did the Student, but haven't found anything. If there was a plaque it has still gone missing. Ed Apt doesn't seem to have an net presence. What else did he do?
Leigh-Anne / February 3, 2009 at 02:44 am
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This article has very pretty photos, as for information, I suggest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_College

Torontonian replying to a comment from Shawn Micallef / February 3, 2009 at 07:24 am
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It was with a little difficulty but there is one citation for
Ed Apt. It is here:

http://www.library.ubc.ca/archives/sculptures/sculptures1.html

Ed Apt's studio was in the garage behind the Hassle-Free Clinic on Dupont St. I clearly remember him telling me about it and showing some photos of it.

There was a plaque at the base of the sculpture but I guess it's been removed.

By the way the Google search I used was sculpture: Ed Apt.

There was essentially the one article.

I hope this material is of some use to you.
Shawn Micallef / February 3, 2009 at 09:58 am
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Ah thanks. One small mystery solved, but it opens up more mystery. What happened to Edward Apt?
Torontonian replying to a comment from Shawn Micallef / February 3, 2009 at 12:53 pm
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I don't know what happened to Ed Apt. I never heard of him after leaving Rochdale and a brief Google turns up nothing.
Sorry, I can't help you further.
youknowwho, jono! / February 7, 2009 at 08:32 pm
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jono, how could you publish this tripe about "bodies" when people who KNOW what went on there, and who researched this for you just in case we missed something, told you that there were no bodies, no murders etc. etc.!!!!

the statue of the student is a generic student, not a memorial to some poor innocent that was shoved down the maw of horrible, bestial rochdale!

and some of the assumptions about yorkville and rochdale are just plain wrong. it would be better to interview someone who lived there at the time to get a first-person account rather than speculating on latter-day interpretations founded in large measure on rumour.
Jonathan@blogTO / February 7, 2009 at 10:21 pm
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youknowwho
I know more than a few people who were involved in the creation of, and the living out of the project; the statue is indeed a memorial, and who are these people who researched for me? Anyhow, I appreciate your comments, just find them rather unfounded.

J->

ps. for the record, I do NOT know who - heh.
Human Fly / February 8, 2009 at 09:13 am
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"the statue is indeed a memorial"

In the last sentence of your article you make it seem like there was some kind of police massacre of students and the statue commemorates the dead. But in the comments here, we've learned there was no massacre, just some overdoses, and the statue,
created during Rochdale's heyday, is not a memorial, but rather, symbolizes the unknown student who goes to a traditional University and feels alienated by the big system.

Why do you continue to insist it was a memorial?
Andrew / February 15, 2009 at 11:37 am
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Ed left Rochdale just after I arrived via New york / Montreal .A great burly man who was always attentive to whomever talked to him . I guess I filled up that need for an art persona and was granted a studio on the 2nd floor -Gallery space on the ground floor and had a huge Tye -Dye on the wall above the stairwell [ plus many other efforts ] . The happiness achieved there was only dampened by the Cops raiding what had naturally combusted, We know Zip and the gang were unusual, but never threatening to "Residents " I left in 69 to be in London for 7 years then saw the drug abuse getting too close to the young family that was starting up . The only death whilst I was there was a jumper from the laundry room ,a day tripper as one would say. All that other stuff is I am sure bred from an inborn jealousy from some git who was ' never there'
Larry Claypool / February 18, 2009 at 12:02 pm
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After reading the all the comments I felt the need to set the record a little straight. I'm a former Rochdale Security guard and served in that stead off and on from 1970-till the closing in 1975.I know Rochdale had gone to the dogs a bit prior to 1970 but in that year Security was revamped under Billy Litler and a mass eviction of hard drug dealers and users was carried out. While Bill Litler certainly owned a bike he was never a member of any bike club nor were any other members of Rochdale Security following the changeover in 1970. The only "alliance" between Rochdale Security and the Vagabond motorcycle club was a gentleman's agreement that they would not wear their "colors" or cause problems when visiting the building. It was an agreement made more out of necessity than desire. Rochdale Security was at a maximum 20 individuals while the Vagabond club included close to 700 plus members. A war would not have made sense. To their credit, the Vagabonds generally stuck to their end of the bargain.

Re deaths in Rochdale there were 3 DOA overdoses, and 4 deaths from other causes, over the 7 years that the College existed.Given the transient nature and high turn over rate of the residents, the nature of the times, the large number of people who were coming to Rochdale to purchase soft drugs such as pot,hash,and psychedelics--the figure is extraordinarily low. I recall discussing the stats with members of 14 and 52 divisions of Metro's Finest and their comments that any highrise tower in St. Jamestown area(then the gay area of Toronto) would be somewhat similar.

Of the deaths mentioned above I as a member of Rochdale Security was present and witnessed the investigation and aftermath of several.

One of the drug DOA's was a girl named Linda. Linda had a long list of suicide attempts and had had long before seeking shelter at Rochdale. In the year or so she was in Rochdale, Linda made numerous attempts at suicide and we (Rochdale Security)managed to get her medical help every time up until her last. She was successful on attempt number 33.I remember what sadness and what a waste I felt as we entered her apartment to find her and then later loaded her on the gurney to leave.

Another death that I was privy to was when a bank robber and his girlfriend successfully entered Rochdale and were hiding out in an alias rented apartment. 10 days after moving in the bank robber killed his girlfriend and was caught.Didn't really have anything to do with our community per se.

One of the deaths mentioned by Andrew was the "daytripper" kid. This was another instance where a 15 year old from I believe Hamilton had been thrown out of his home by his parents. Having no where else to go he came to Rochdale seeking a place to stay and drugs. He managed to get into the building but was rebuffed in his attempts to buy drugs. Within a matter of one or two hours after reaching Rochdale he apparently became so despondent that he launched himself out of the laundry room on the 17th floor commiting suicide. He was not known or related to the Rochdale community in any way.

Another death I witnessed occured on a very cold and blizzardy night at about 3 am in the morning when someone came to report to me at the Security desk that there was a body on the back patio. The body turned out to be an American draft dodger who had lived in a ashram(communal living space with individual rooms) room whose wall butted my own apartment on the 16th floor. I had heard this person screaming and shouting profanities for about two weeks before this happened. I had asked other members of the ashram what was going on with the guy and whether we should intervene as Security to try and get this guy settled down so the other residents could enjoy their premises more quietly. I was told that the chap was quite distraught because even though an Amnesty to draft dodgers had been in the cards his parents somewhere in the Southern USA still rejected him and his right to return. It is believed that this or an accidental fall was the reason for his death. No Drugs were involved.This was one of 3 "Resident" deaths that I was privy too.

Another death had occured before I came to Rochdale and this had happened when two "residents" had gotten into a fight while drunk in the 7th floor elevator lobby. During the fight they crashed through the heavy plate glass windows and fell to the pavement below. One of the two died and the other 'Wolf" survived through with many broken limbs.

Another "non resident" death occured one morning at approximately 4am as I was smoking hash with my Jamaican CRUD radio announcer friend, Patrick. We heard a large *Wham*!! I knew without looking that it was not a cat that had fallen but a human.I instructed Pat to call emergency and the police and went outside where I was joined by other members of the Security force. It turned out that a visitor from outside had been drinking tequila in an apartment on the 11th floor. He started retching and rather than attempt to run to the bathroom he started to puke out the waist level high window into the back alley. He toppled over and landed half in and half out of a garbage bin setting 11 floors down.It was a bit of the macabre death obviously sent from on high since it was such an odd way to die. I mean how many people die by falling into a garbage can while puking 11 floors. It was pretty unique.

I hope that leaves those of you who were wondering about Rochdale a little about what really went on there. As for myself, I went on to complete my batchelor degrees in History and Archeology at York University which was what I had mostly been doing at Rochdale besides working as a fulltime member of Rochdale Security.


Larry Claypool / February 18, 2009 at 12:23 pm
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re the statue of the Unknown Student it was not a memorial. It was a figure coiled in the embryonic position because it represented new beginnings, new hope, a new type of community, and a new style of education process was to be born in Rochdale. And so it was but unfortunately the experiment was nipped in the bud just as it started to be successful by a Canadian government that became fearful as we started to move into mainstream of politics.
Jonathan / February 18, 2009 at 12:59 pm
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Larry - thank you very much for all of these first-hand accounts!
Most informative,
Jonathan.
steven phaneuf / February 20, 2009 at 05:56 pm
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i lived at spadina n bloor when rochdale was open i was only a kid of about 7 or 8 but so many times on my way to huron st school i sat n talked to the people of rochdale they were all so kind and wonderful people i even remember the mural above the elevators i was awed watching the creativity of the residents there i loved going over to listen to the songs n stories even though i was just a kid everyone made me feel so at home LONG LIVE THE MEMORIES OF ALL THE GREAT PEOPLE ALIVE AND PASSED ON
Larry Claypool / February 20, 2009 at 08:25 pm
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It's possible. I remember the ping pong table. sat behind the security desk
Leslie / February 25, 2009 at 11:55 am
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I lived up the street and went to some parties on the roof of Rochdale and I loved their bookstore. Bought my copy of Mao's Little Red Book there. But, I especially remember the Rochdale cafe that served a bowl of brown rice with mushrooms in bechamel sauce for fifty cents.
It was so delicious that I stopped in nearly every week for lunch. I'd give ANYTHING to have that recipe!!
Does anyone out there know how to find it out?
PS Great to see Rochdale rememberd so vividly.
Gord / March 23, 2009 at 09:40 pm
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Was associated with Rochdale through Al Mitchell who ran the dog training and Jeff Snider who had a pretty mean white Shepherd. I borded it for him while he was hiding out from the police. Maybe Larry would remember hyim as he started out with security and ended up having them after him on one side and the police on the other. One day he fled to Isreal and I got left with the dog. It kept going back and forth tho Al who used i9t as a construction watchdog. Story was that security hung Jeff out an upper story window till he confessed to stealing money. Don't know wether it was true or not but he was sure on the run when I knew him. Got one letter from him from Isreal.
Larry Claypool / March 23, 2009 at 11:41 pm
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I knew Al Mitchell largely through Billy Litler. Al ran the National Academy School for Dogs-was excellent dog trainer. Was how I personally learned dog training-we used the Koehler method.

Jeffrey Snider Aka "Shades" had a white shepherd mix that was definitely a foul tempered mutt. Dog's name was "Fritz".
re story on us hanging him out the 10 floor window for theft-well, heh- we on Rochdale security were a bunch of nice guys-we would never treat a thief like that, would we? :-}

Shades had served on the Security force just prior to my starting. That had been headed by Ed Walsh. Everyone on that Security force was fired and Security was revamped under Billy Litler. Besides Billy there was myself, Don Ferguson, Mike Vance, Mike Franklin, Prince & Charlie from Ohio, Charlie Taylor, Tony Zenker, Alaska,Bear, Mickey Russell(George Chuvalo's sparring partner)and Francisco( former policeman from Uruguay). This was the Security force that did most of the heavy cleanup work on the building including removing the speed freaks, and all the other hard drug users and dealers. By the end of 1970 everything was running a lot smoother. In 1972, Billy was let go as Chief of Security and replaced by Rudy Hierk. While Rudy was a nice guy he wasn't particularly that effective as Chief. He elected as his No#2 a guy named Mark Smith. Both were musicians as well as running Security. Neither were cut out for the rough & tumble stuff that sometimes occurred at the front door.

thomas vikander / June 4, 2009 at 02:53 am
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6th floor ashram.
14th floor commune.
I was there from Sept 1968 to July 1973.
It was a wonderfully exciting time. If john q. public weren't there having a fullfilling, exhausting time then perhaps the same john q. public was busy bringing its own negative baggage into the building. No sense being envious about it now, slagging it and denigrating the Rochdale experience and those who benefitted from it and who matured physically, artistically, academically and politically there. In the intervening 36 years it seems I've only heard people say that they wished they'd been there during those halcyon days!!!
Dave Witton replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / July 1, 2009 at 11:16 pm
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Hey Larry--Great to see you're alive and well after so many
years. I shared #1111 in Rochdale with "Doc" Call in 1971--
I believe you were living in the 11th Floor Ashram. Rudy and
April were in 1103, Danny in 1101, and several dozen Czechs
were in 1105. Please get in touch with me! mrsandoz(at)gmail
(dot)com. Dave Witton
Popeye / August 5, 2009 at 02:18 am
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re comments by Larry and Gord

You pair are on the money but:

1) the Vagabonds had "almost 700 members" Muahahaha. Bravo Sierra.

2) Jeff Snider was no thief. Not then. Not ever. He never owed anyone a dime, never was short of lolly, came from a wealthy family up in Bathurst Manor and was a talented merchant in his own right in rare coins and stamps, motorcycles etc.

A slob, rude, abrasive, demanding, psychotic even, but always honourable. The only thing illegal Shades ever did was to middle some resin. Hardly public enemy number one as the cops who hounded him would have the courts believe.

I dont believe he was hung out an upper storey window to confess to stealing money. I think that's a myth someone invented for puffery. But yeah, there was an upper storey involved in that episode but it went like this....a couple of rounders with balls like church bells lowered themselves down a rope from maybe the tenth floor type of thing to the balcony of Robert R's stash room and cleaned it out.

Suspicion wrongly fell on Snider, I am not sure why. Anyway, what did happen as I know it, Security roughed him up and stabbed him with a sabre or a sword or some such weapon in an effort to get him to confess to something he didn't do. I seem to remember maybe it was Billy Littler but not really certain on that. That just sticks in my mind somehow. But I could be wrong on that. I think Littler also had a shepherd when Shades had Fritz. Littler wasn't a clubber but he had a scoot, not a hog, maybe a Velocette or a Moto Guzzi, something different.

The only Vagabond I remember ever being on security was Ed (Newfie) Walsh.
Of course there were a few so called Vagabond 'riders' around, such as Barmy Bobby Leytas (RIP)...the only thing I ever saw him ride was the Red Rocket, whereas Shades I remember had a spanking new blue and white Electraglide right off Mouldy. (Russell Winter)

Due to serious aggro from the cops, Jeff moved to Israel in 71 and has never returned.

Last I heard he owned half of Nablus.
Larry Claypool / August 15, 2009 at 07:46 am
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sorry about the 700 vagabond figure -you are right-was typo -meant to put 200 as the figure. Unfortunately, I didn't proof read before posting and you can't edit once posted.


re your comments on Shades-well Billy Litler and Don Ferguson were definitely there, as were others- but I was not. Neither of those two guys were on the Security Force when whatever happened happened- and no one from Security was present during that session. I don't know why they suspected Shades and his friends had pulled the ripoff but they did. Knowlege of the Stash room would have been limited to very, very, few people.



Now I never actually asked Ferguson or Litler what happened in that room but the details of your story have the facts quite correct. But-you are the first person I have ever heard that said Shades and friends didn't do it. Litler and Ferguson were both close personal friends of mine and both lived in my house when they came to the West Coast- though they arrived at different times. I heard both the stabbing and the hanging out the window story back when the events occured so there was never any need to ask further. You say that you think the hanging out the window was puffery -my question would be if you got the jam to stab somebody why wouldn't you have the jam to hang them out the window? Billy and Ferguson were both hard men when so inclined- and Ferguson was certainly one of the most evil men I have ever met-the man was capable of anything.So-did Shades get hung out the window-who knows-I'm sure old Shades does if he is still alive.I don't recall him ever coming back to Rochdale after that. Billy and Fergie are both dead so they ain't going to tell. And, it's all close to 40 years ago so it really doesn't matter now.


That was an exceptionally rare incident however you cut it.Violence did happen at Rochdale but after the building got cleaned up in the 1970 period it happened very little -at least within the building. I worked Security for 5 years and I never had a physical encounter with any resident living there. My battles were always with the "Outsiders" who were trying to get in-hence most occured at the front door.I worked El Mocambo's door back then as well and believe me the front door at the Rock was far heavier place to be, especially on any hot Friday night during the summer, with more than 3000 people in an 8 hour shift trying to get in-hah!


Bobby Leytas(RIP) -got his picture up on my screen sitting on his bike out in front of the Rock-and I'm having a toast and a toke to his memory as I write. Loved Bobby -great guy and a good friend- but crazier than hell when he got drunk and mean.I always figured he was worse after he got that steel plate in his head.I was very sad to learn of his death but what could ya say -he lived the creed "Live fast-die young-leave a good loooking corpse". Hard to imagine Bobby living to be a fat old man in his 60's or 70's. Just wasn't gonna happen.
sharon blanchfield / August 16, 2009 at 08:13 pm
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this article makes me suck my teeth and roll my eyes, it could only have been written by someone who never set foot in the building,did no research at all, maybe talked to a Greene over a whisky..I remember Bobby Leytas very well,I built and run, then sold the 7-11 Bar, Bobby was one of the main reasons I sold it, a really nice guy until he'd had two White-Russians and who could tell him "no you can't come in?"(RIP). Sid S.(RIP) and I both knew Fergie before the Rock and he was a bad ass then. The Bld. had nothing to do with that,.
The business about the sculpture is pure fiction as is the Title "Toronto's Forgotten Landmarks: The Rochdale Project" how many books have to be written and documentaries made for this dude to be able to do some research? and the lead line "one of Toronto's greatest tragedies". You'd be hard pressed to find someone who lived there that would agree it was a tragedie.
There was a fair size transient population at different times and, as long as there where no really hard drugs involved that was alright, some of the street kids out there today would be Lucky to have a place like the Rock to go to and gather their lives together before having to face the big bad world..
Rochdale the 11th. floor gave me the 'Time and Place' to learn to Paint which is what I do Today, and I am ever Grateful for that.
I don't know about Doc.& Donna 1111 how or where they are, but Fitzy and Danny (RIP)and Gord B. Jeremy D.&; Jimmy M.all from the ashram are doing fine living Good lives as am I.
Ever yours; Sharon Blanchfield,
my paintings can be found at..
WWW.peacockstudios.com ..P.S. Lorraine Darlings'(8th.floor) Bronzes can be found there also..
sharon blanchfield replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / August 16, 2009 at 08:23 pm
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Where is Tony Z. these days ?? Sharon B.
Jonathan / August 16, 2009 at 11:30 pm
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Hey guys,
I am sorry about any inadequacies etc. in the article; I am not old enough to have experienced the place first hand; all I have is the lore that professors (I studied at UofT) told me. Keep in mind, this is a BLOG, not a news-source.

I am so glad to see you guys re-connecting on here -

No hard feelins'

jonathan@blogTO
Popeye / August 19, 2009 at 06:08 am
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Shades didn't have the stones to carry that off.

Was it the theory that he was connected to the burglars somehow?

I knew the pair who did the deed, experienced pros, both well-known second storey men in and totally unknown in Rochdale. Not dope users or hippie types. They targeted Robert R on hearing tales about the boy wizard who weighed his money. Loose lips sink ships. And in 68-69 security was a lark...the 101st Cannibis Brigade on Guard for Thee.

Ironically, some years later the pair ended up in Collins Bay with Robert. So we have Al Mundie and T.H.E.Cat in the same pen as their mark. Despite backgrounds poles apart and as I understand it Robert fit in well to the mosaic and they liked him and told me they gained a lot of respect for him and in loose moments ruminated on fessing up to him how his goods walked, but thought ah lets leave well enough alone.

Both those guys are gone now, one murdered and the other a suicide
I had no way of knowing about Littler and Fergusson passing. I never knew Littler personally but saw him around, a greasy looking piece of work right out of central casting, black hair and stubble beard, full black leathers, maybe 5'10 or eleven. It's been almost four decades but I am virtually certain thinking back, Shades pointed him out and told me it was he who stabbed him in the leg. Now that wasn't Fergusson by description.

I had little to do with the Rock, but I knew Fergusson previously (I believe he spelled his name with the double s) If it is the same one, he came from Elgin Mills Rd up in Richmond Hill....lived on the north side of Elgin Mills just west of Yonge. I think it was his parents home. Met him him now and then at Normie Black's scatter called the Black Hawk Inn. Later on in Rochdale was hooked up with a Mary Anne Big****, I never knew her but knew her Uncle. I remember Don as a tall, slim handsome dude, fair or sandy hair. I think they had a bairn they called Rising Star or Bold heart or something odd.

Looks like all the actors involved have screwed the pooch but Snakeshit as we called Shades, survives, at least as of two years ago. I haven't seen him since '71 but he is in contact with one or two in Toronto from time to time. I think it is people that were involved with the ledain commission he contacts. He would be about 63 now. Fergusson if alive would be about 67-68. No clue on Littler.

I often surmised Shades might have been suspected as he may have had keys to the room door (don't know if security even did) but I know for sure they rappelled down a rope and left by opening the door from the inside. Those guys weren't interested in ripping dope, they expected to find mountains of cash.

I would know Robert R by sight, having seen him on the jelly belly, he's a wee grizzled elf of a man now, and if I should cross paths with him I might give him the gouge. Hell, there's a lot of water gone under the bridge and it will be forty years in another six months and he will prolly get a kick out of it when he realizes he shared so many jugups and often swapped spit with them. I think one of them was even on the inmate committee with him. It'll rock his bones!


Tis a pity the grand experiment was shagged up by the Murray-the-speed-freak types.

Popeye sends and ends.


Larry Claypool replying to a comment from sharon blanchfield / August 19, 2009 at 07:09 am
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well-Sharon-nice to see you are still alive, darlin' -as you say you had to be there. I been thinking for years about writing a book but that would take a lot of my time.I haven't really read or seen anything that rocks my world on the Rock.I have all of Scotty's photos which he was kind enough to give me and permission to use them-and all the newspaper clippings, ambulance reports -stuff like that. If there was one of out there that had either our Security logbooks and or copies of all the Tuesdailies that would help.

Mr Tony< I haven't seen in many a year-last I heard he drove airport limosine but that a long time ago.It's only been recently that I have gotten back in touch with any of "the people".


I've been spending a lot of my time overseas in SE Asia and Latin America the last 20 years or so.Recently hooked up with Scotty and a few other Toronto folks.I haven't been in TO myself since 1982.Recently Cindy, for Karen and Cindy(the HotRocks twins) got ahold of me through Facebook. She is trying to get back in touch with Lorraine D if you happen to have a current email or phone number for her.


Been talking with Deloris D, Flanigans ex wife and apparently Terry(809) is in very bad mental and physical health these days.
Anyway, paid a visit to your website and nice to see you are still painting all these years later.You can always contact me through Facebook , if you use it-just plug in my email Blackeagle@shaw.ca and it will bring me up.
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from Jonathan / August 19, 2009 at 07:25 am
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s"ok Jonathan-you're forgiven.Just that there is so much crap spewed out about by Rochdale usually by people who had no connection to us at all.Those of who lived there learned a lot in those few short years and Rochdale had a lot of creative people from all over the planet-in many ways it was like a mini-UN of hip people from everywhere. A lot of Rochdalians would probably even go so far as to say we had some aliens living in there.
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from sharon blanchfield / August 19, 2009 at 07:37 am
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Hey Sharon-good to see you're still alive. Dunno about Tony -last I heard he was driving airport limo but thats 20 years ago. If you happen to talk to Lorraine can you tell her Cindy of Karen and Cindy is trying to get back in touch with her.Both Cindy and I are on Facebookso cab got ahold of through there. Don't hit up this blog all that often.
ann ainsworth / August 22, 2009 at 06:29 pm
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I was 14 years old when I first stepped foot into Rochdale . . . and a runaway . . . the first thing I saw when I stepped into one of the elevators was a sign "lost, 6ft boa constrictor" . . .I was there and witnessed several raids on the building . . .and if i remember correctly the tenants of Rochdale defended their building with ingenious well thoughtout plans and escapades . . .and the contests that went on in the cafeteria-belching, farting, eating contests, drinking contests . . it was indeed a "City Within A City" . . .it was a pretty high (what a pun) place to be in the late 60's early 70's . . .I am 54 now and reflect with fondness the warmess and love and affection that was bestowed unpon me by the tenants of Rochdale . . .they protected me from things that my own mother wouldn't protect me . . .and when I walk past the Rochdale monument I reflex back and often wonder . . .what ever happened to the people of Rochdale . . rest in peace Rochdale!!
#1fan replying to a comment from Gord / September 20, 2009 at 12:50 am
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Gord garret expresident of germ,Shep.Club re rumours of Shades. U r a liar Gord, Shades family tried to get Fritz from u but u wanted to sell him for dough even tho he suffrd from ear infections, u only partd with harley wouldnt giv his own family Fritz cuz u were a greedy dude! How disloyal u r to Shades memory when u & yer wife were once so close 2 him. U r a fuckin hypocrite! U sur made plenty of dinero & connections from him. Al Mitchell far surpasd u in dog training with both hands tied bhind his bak. Nevr a fan of yours Garret so quit with the bullroar, Im stepin in it its sooo deep. Lookin for fame again? Aint gona hapen. Your #1 Fan!haha...
Ms.Rezin replying to a comment from Popeye / September 20, 2009 at 01:09 am
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Popeye, rite fuckin on man, Shades nevr puld that off & asshole Littler knew it, stabd. him in leg, Peter the Hungarian saw the fucks & u r so rite as 2 Al & fuckface #2. Fergie was frum Elgin Mills & Littler planted heroin on Shades, called police, tried 2 get him put away so Billyd cop all his customrs! U know way 2 much of the reall truth ma but it was M.Rs. stash & dinerothry wanted not R.Rs. Get yer facts straight. Paulie who was a nebish on security was in on it 2! For a guy who knows mor truth than anyone but me on this subject Popeye, I get who u really r & thanz 4 setin record straight 4 all out ther. Truth b known newr guys on security were 2 full of selves, werent ther from the beginnin just wanted glory. Shades had mor bals than anyon else cuz he took the crap from the setup laughin in Litlers face. Rockin in reality, Ms.Rezin
Ms.Rezin replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / September 20, 2009 at 01:49 am
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Larry Claypoll(nickname cesspool cuz of what an uptight freak he was. U keep on slandering Shades name & I will get a lawyer & sue u on his behalf. Fat Tom was on security as well Cesspool, he was a great asset 2 the team. They only kept u on cuz u knew 2 much & we nevr. believd in violence as hippies. Id like u 2 know the window is in yer imagination. As 4 Wolf, Shades was out front & Wolf fell on him (I think it was 4th flr. window only broke his leg(or arm?) cuz Shades broke his fall hence savd his life. U wouldnt know larry cuz u wernt there. I was. So quit flappin the gums & crawl bak 2 the hole u originally came from. U know jackshit about anything Larry! U were always a difficult person who tried 2 ban people from buildin til R.R. told u 2 straightn out yer act. Fade bak into woodwork & quit spreadin slandr u selfrighteous freak! R u still here illegally or what? i know that I told u Shades was innocent 40 yrs. ago u asshole! I shoud write a book on u & all yer sleazy underhanded dealings in The Rock Mr. big shot>Kiss my grits! #1fan.
Sunny / October 5, 2009 at 09:16 pm
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We think Rochdale is crucial stuff for youth today.
Check out this exhibition and free school we're presenting along with students in October 2009. http://studentsutac.ning.com/events/rochdale-college-exhibition
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from Ms.Rezin / October 6, 2009 at 05:31 am
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no idea who you are but not important anyway since you sound pretty skanky-too much booze and bad drugs in your life? We can both agree on Tommy being an asset to Security. As for the rest of your little diatribe-well- if I was you I would go ahead and write your book-might as well get all that hatred out of your system.
Janine Barger Bourassa / October 21, 2009 at 06:57 am
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I was Rochdales baby, I was only 8 years old when I lived up the
4th floor, with one of Rochdales well known residents Phil Decant ( he was my home away from home, that kept me safe) . The Vagabonds and Hells Angels became part of my family back then. Don, President of Vagabonds taught me how to flick my bic. Big John Hells Angel Canada always give me shit for one thing or another. Like trying to kill him off the 4th floor with water balloons.HaHa earned my PHD in Pharmecutical Engineering by the time I was sixteen, making drugs.Thanks to all the bikers at Rochdale for being my family back then
pauline fike replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / October 26, 2009 at 05:13 pm
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When did litler pass away and send a pic of booby leytus
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from pauline fike / October 28, 2009 at 04:57 pm
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Hi Pauline
Billy Litler passed away 3-4 years ago I think. I was down in Central America at the time so I actually didn't know that msyelf until one of my fellow Rochdalians told me that both he and jay Boldizar(former President of the College) had passed on. I was quite shocked to hear the news as we had always been good friends. He had moved up to the Sunshine Coast so I didn't see him as often as before when he lived in Van. re pic of Bobby Leytus I would be happy to send you but I will need an email address.
olivia / November 17, 2009 at 07:03 pm
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hey there -
any Rochdalians living in Montreal.

please get back to me if so...would like very much to talk to you.
olivia replying to a comment from Janine Barger Bourassa / November 17, 2009 at 07:09 pm
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hey there Janine-
would you happen to remember a little girl by the first name Dawn who lived at Rochdale?
i would like to reunite with her friend at the tine Laura...

kind regards,
Olivia
pauline davies replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / November 19, 2009 at 01:56 am
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Hi Larry send me a pic of bobby and some rchdale ones thanks,Pauline
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from pauline davies / November 20, 2009 at 08:02 am
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well again Pauline-I would be glad to send you Bobby's pic and/or Rochdale ones as well but I would need your email address to send them to.You can contact me at my email which is Blackeagle@shaw.ca or use that email address to hook up with me on Facebook. There is a couple of Facebook sites for Rochdale-the one I use is the Group called "Rochdalians" and I do post Rochdale photos in that group.
Cheers, my dear.
Loretta replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / November 24, 2009 at 12:09 am
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I'm reading, with interest, details of my Brother's life that I've not known until now. I was with Bill when he passed away of heart failure in St. Paul's Hospital, Vancouver on January 15, 2004. For many years our family had no contact from Bill; these were obviously his "Rochdale' years. Later on he re-entered our lives and we had regular contact with him until he passed away at the age of 62.
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from Loretta / November 26, 2009 at 01:13 am
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Wow!-I only vaguely remember Billy telling me he had a sister, Loretta. But if there is anything you want to know about Billy I would be glad to help you out. Billy was one of my best friends since I came to this country in 1970 and in fact he gave me my 1st job here which was on Rochdale Security. I have a very high regard for your brother. He was one of the smartest, toughest, most honorable guys I have ever known.I think all of his friends and there are a lot of us, would say the same thing about him. His last few years were not so good but other than that he had lived a helluva life.I also have a fair collection of photos of him over the years which I would be glad to share. My email is Blackeagle@shaw.ca
Larry Claypool / November 26, 2009 at 02:19 am
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just wanted to add Loretta if you are a user of Facebook, there are 2 groups you might join-one called Rochdalians and the other is a group called Rochdale Alumni. Billy was one of our most famous people and, except by a few, was well beloved by us all-he was kind of a hero to many.
Loretta replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / November 26, 2009 at 09:28 pm
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It's very heart warming to realize that Bill had so many friends who to this day, hold him in high regard. In the weeks leading up to his passing I had the pleasure of meeting some of his friends who visited with him in his hospital room. Others telephoned often for updates on his condition. I was touched by their tenderness and their respect towards our Brother. My Sister and I had travelled to Powell River on Thansgiving weekend 2003 and he managed to secure a day pass from the hospital so we could enjoy a lovely turkey dinner with him. He was weak, but showed evidence of determination. It was during that week that he was transferred to hospital in Vancouver. We drove south to Vancouver and stayed in a hotel closeby until after he came out of surgery. At that time, we were informed it was only a matter of time and he would suffer a stroke due to the deterioration of his arteries. Indeed early New Year's morning the inevitable occurred and he was comotose until he passed away two weeks later. At the time I did inform his friends who had visited and called during this period of time. In retrospect, I could have published an obituary in the B.C. papers. Not being from the area nor knowing very much about his friends and acquaintances, I overlooked doing this. My apologies to you and to anyone who should have been informed of his illness and ultimately his death. Thank you for your kindness towards our Brother. As a 'big Brother' my sister and I miss him...that booming voice, his interpretations of current events, his dry, sarcastic humour, his sharing of experiences with his friends in British Columbia, his excitement surrounding his return trips to Toronto to spend time with friends there, comments pertaining to his beloved canine friends, and his caring towards his family.
Cindy / December 28, 2009 at 12:16 am
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Wow ... This is overwhelming to read all of this. I moved into the Rock when I was 14 and you all know who my guy was . I basically drove him insane until he signed the lease and we became family to all of you that made me the student that I am today , a student of knowledge , compassion and love of the Arts .
Ironically Bambi died September 11 2003 , May he now Rest in Peace . We had a hell of a ride and so did all of you that knew and loved him and you know who you are ! He finally taught me how to ride a bike just a couple of years before he passed. Rest In Peace Billy my brother as well. I thank all of you for teaching me well. Cindy The Brat ...
olivia replying to a comment from Cindy / December 28, 2009 at 11:11 am
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hi Cindy-
i love your comments you posted. i am starting to rap up on a Rochdale interview project...would love to talk to you more. i am located in toronto. please contact me if you can help us out.
thanks so much.
kind regards,
Olivia
Cindy replying to a comment from Leslie / December 28, 2009 at 10:48 pm
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I know the person with the recipe but it will take me time to connect with them . But I will try .
omm / January 30, 2010 at 10:57 am
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GOOD MORNING EVERYONE- TODAY AND TOMORROW WE ARE DOING OUR FINAL VIDEO INTERVIEWS FOR THE 'ROCHDALE PROJECT' IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELES WHO HAS A TALE TO TELL from those times LET US KNOW...

cheers,
Olivia
oliviamizzi@hotmail.com
sharon blanchfield / March 6, 2010 at 03:16 pm
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Yes, Billy had a Bike if I remember right one was a Lavertta with a sidecar,when he was living on the farm with Ralphie he used to ride in with one or other of his big dogs sitting facing back wards in the sidecar, he even rode in during the winter....
cindy / March 7, 2010 at 04:35 pm
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Last bike we saw Billy driving was a Honda Goldwing with a Russian Sidecar. Also he had a Ducadi and there is another one he had that I can't remember , Howard would know .
Hi Sharon .
Cheers,
Cindy
sharon blanchfield / March 8, 2010 at 05:33 pm
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Hi Cindy, I was wondering if you ever hear from Karen these days ? I was talking to Gord the other day he's doing fine, he has four kids two girls and two boys all really young the oldest is Lilly 8 then Ryan then Michel then Jeremy, it's a lot for a guy past fifty.
As ever...Sharon
cindy / March 8, 2010 at 08:08 pm
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Hey Sharon
Wow ..Gord a Pop , that's far out. I last saw Karen at Billy's wake at Howard's in Toronto. I haven't seen her since then but she is still living where the lemons grow. Email me at cindy6@shaw.ca if you like .
Cindy
Linnell / March 29, 2010 at 01:29 pm
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I am in tears right now! RIP to all my Brothers who have passed on. Unless you lived the experience it's really hard to grasp the life long affect that the experience has had on the many who lived in Rochdale were a part of the community. I had my baby there..I learned...and the experience stayed with me a lifetime!
David Tanstaafl / April 11, 2010 at 03:21 am
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Larry, thanks for the stories. I'm Billy's elder son David. He told me some of these stories before he died but it's nice to get some confirmation. Plus I'm glad to know his story lives on somewhere...
sharon blanchfield / April 25, 2010 at 12:24 am
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, Oitch or Rover or Mike Walsh passed away last week... had been on oxygen, so lung related, I guess....also Karen Johnson from rentals passed away RIP.......
olivia Mizzi / April 25, 2010 at 10:32 am
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hey everyone~

we are open to setting up a few more story share video interviews for those of you that missed out in Jan.

lets get in touch,

oliviamizzi@hotmail.com
Olivia
Larry Claypool replying to a comment from David Tanstaafl / April 27, 2010 at 08:43 am
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Hey David-I remember you pretty well-You came out to BC for awhile and was working with your father. Think we met when I back in country from Thailand a few times. In my honest opinion your Dad was a great man David and I am proud to have known him and worked with him many times over the years. You always get in touch with me David at Blackeagle@shaw.ca-and nice to hear from you after all these years
You must be in your 30's by now
Larry Claypool
Tom Thompson / May 2, 2010 at 10:26 pm
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wow, just found this site. Most people don't believe me when I tell them of my experiences at rochdale. All I've known about it since was that it closed in mid 70's. I was as you called us, one of the transients. I first got in the doors in Summer of 70 with one of the office workers from M4M, 4th floor if I remember right. Then met Ron Day, the postmaster for Rochdale at the time, who lived across the hall, even sold him my guitar to get some starter money :) and to eat. Speakin' of eating, I don't know how many egg salad on wheat sandwiches I ate from the cafeteria that summer. I met security early on and was accepted by them and even partied late at night at the "desk" after just about everyone else was asleep.I dont remember their names but specifically remember one with boots with wooden soles, I so wanted a pair like that. Also, remember watching Barbarella (Jane Fonda) along with some other movies on the roof at night. Remember goin' on road trip to some lake about 2 hrs away with about 15 people all from Rochdale. Remeber that each floor seemed to have its own personality although I dont think I ever got on all 18. I never met anyone there that was anything but nice to me. I did date (hung out with) a few girls and I'm sorry I cant remember names, but I do have pics in my head and great times in my memories. Thanks to any and all that made Rochdale what it was, it will never be duplicated. Anyone that might remember me can email me or find me on FB sailponytail@verizon.net I was Tom from NJ and was 16 at the time
Neil / August 7, 2010 at 03:12 pm
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Rochdale evolve into a very positive influence on life in Toronto that was never recognized by the deep thinkers. Speed freaks and other hard drug users were quitting the use of needles so they could get into the building. Security routinely checked arms for track marks and if you were using you did not get into the building. Rochdale was at times a university, an apartment building, an insane asylum, a drug store (soft drugs only,) it was whatever you wanted it to be.

Rochdale has been gone for 40 years now and closing it down really stopped the flow of drugs into the city. Didn't it?

Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the horn-rimmed glasses set had supported the culture of Rochdale rather than doing whatever they could to shut it down.

cyndi Macmillan / January 16, 2011 at 10:17 pm
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...i was at Rochdale when i was 12 years old in 1971, i took the train from cornwall ont. to visit my brothers ex girlfriend, chicky... it was a visit and and experience i have not forgotten, lots of happy high people, large chunks of hash, dogs peeing in the hallway, white haired grannies moving to the music...eating raw pecans and raw rice from the cafeteria... hippies and long flowing hair...
sharon blanchfield / January 17, 2011 at 01:02 pm
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I'm sure you mean 'Brown Rice' not raw rice, people had the munchies but no one would eat raw rice, :)
Wayne / February 6, 2011 at 05:42 pm
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who the hell wrote this
its obvious that you were never there
yes there were some deaths, just like anywhere you choose to live
but to blame them on bikers or a culture is just plain wrong
I knew one of the people who died personally and it was a fight along with falling out the window during the fight. they were both DRUNK at the time)
Jonathan you really should have talk to some one from the building before you wrote your stretched version of the truth
Jan / July 26, 2011 at 11:07 am
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All I have to say to Jonathan is that it's a good thing this is 'only a blog', because if you had tried to pass this off as 'fact' in a newspaper, you would most certainly be fired. I was also a resident of Rochdale College on and off for three years. Your research is very flawed, you have embellished and possibly even lied in several areas. To the people who couldn't find Ed Apt, I don't think you know how to use Google. If you tried putting quotes around his name, you would find several references to his work and life. Here is a book about him: "The Life and Art of Edward Apt". It is available on Amazon.
My friend Larry has explained a lot of the occurrences most accurately, so I need not add more.
rebecca rabinowitz replying to a comment from Matt Mernagh / July 26, 2011 at 05:44 pm
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I lived there in that so called "den of iniquity" and I had great times and have great memories of Rochdale. There was a lot of talent in the building.And the gangs they claimed policed the building were residents from places like Comanche,Oklahoma,and California. Any where you go you will find low lifes and you will find genius. I chose to hang with genius. So hail Matt's comments.
Toni / September 19, 2011 at 04:17 pm
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I was a frequent visitor to Rochdale and i have to say, that nothing ominous was going on when i was there. At least not where i could see. I have some very fond (as well as some hazy) memories from this place.
Larry Claypool / November 30, 2011 at 10:51 am
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Hey Jonathan -just wanted to say thanks dude for originally posting your erroneous views on Rochdale-I know your intent was not to be malicious -u were just a youngin that didn't know any better-but some very positive results have come out of your blog here and on behalf of us who have reunited through here, I just want to say thank you Jonathan. For nay Rochdalians who stumble onto this site -if you're looking for us we gather at Facebook on a few different pages-The main group is called "Rochdale College 341 Bloor st W."; there are alos 3 others called "Rochdale Collge Alumni" and "Rochdale College" and finally Rochdale Memorials for those of us who have passed on. All who have an interest in. or who have passed through the doors of our home are welcome-Larry
Claypool
Paul Evitts / January 26, 2012 at 08:51 am
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Haven't read all the comments yet, but as a former Rochdaler from 1967 on, I'm flabbergasted by all of the errors in this piece as well as the creepy attitude. Do a little real research next time before opening your mouth to insert both feet. The comments are great, ditch the article.
Deborah replying to a comment from Larry Claypool / February 11, 2012 at 05:40 am
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Hey Larry, It is February 2012 and I am reminiscing reading this blog and your comments, in particular your memory of the guy who fell out of the 11th floor window whilst retching from too much tequila. I and my husband were there at the time and have long remembered this episode as everyone in the room being stoned to varying degrees and suddenly seeing the soles of a pair of shoes flying out the window. Someone said "hey man, who threw some shoes out the window?" No one paid any further attention to this mystery until the police came bursting into the room.

My husband Mick used to play guitar and a sitar (given to him by Candy Cane who is mentioned earlier in this blog)often with Jim Heineman (the saxophonist)or elsewhere in the building for whoever wanted him to play. We also had our two black dogs called Keely and Louie (named after two famous jazz muso's, Keely was well known for manically putting out peoples cigerettes. We used to take them out to do their business at "dog shit park" as Frank Zappa used to say "watch out for that yellow snow cos thats where the huskies go".
Deborah / February 11, 2012 at 06:37 am
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!!!

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