City
Toronto Rally for the Coalition
If you're about as angry as I am right now, you're wishing that Torontonians had voted in a single Tory so that you could go throw rocks at their office.
Fortunately, Torontonians are too sensible for that to happen. Double-fortunately, there is a place you can go Saturday to express your outrage towards Harper and, if you want, Governor General Jean (I for one would allow it). There were rallies yesterday for representative government nationwide: in Halifax, Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver, and pretty much everywhere else. If you're part of the 62% majority, come down and leave your indoor voice behind.
FACEBOOK EVENT:
Toronto Rally for a Progressive Coalition, 6th December 12:00-1:30
@ Nathan Phillips Square (Bay and Queen)
On the other hand, there's events like these for those of you who fell asleep in grade 10 civics.
Picture of the Vancouver rally by Tammy Mitchell
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It's Harper that has just circumvented democracy, our votes and our voices.
The Conservatives have basically lost this battle, regardless of what comes next. They over played their hand. The next budget is going to have to be something very palatable to the left. Any motions they put forward are going to have to be. The conservatives fucked up.
But we didn't! And now the 3 people we didn't want in power, are trying to usurp it and so many people are encouraging it.
All I see are a buncha sore losers attacking the sensibilities of other Canadians just because they voted Conservative.
Are you forgetting that it's still a minority government, which means all the Conservative moves you don't like, can still be shot down in Parliament.
I'm hoping another election is called because of all this BS, cuz I'm sure the Conservatives will come out with a majority and that would just add insult to injury, and give me a good laugh.
Meanwhile, this Eastern coalition is going to alienate the West (you know, the part of the country that isn't falling apart economically right now) and further divide the nation.
To pretend that this coalition is all sunshine and roses because a failed leader is at the helm is unrealistic. Having a free-spending socialist (I don't know a more appropriate moniker for the NDP) riding the coattails doesn't help either in this economic climate as "social justice" simply means more money taken from the middle class and divvied up amongst interest groups. And all this talk of a auto bailout even before the American government decides to save the big 3? Foolishness.
So as dumb as Harper's ploy was that got us into this mess I'll take his minority government over this trifecta of disparate interests any day.
I'm curious as to why the NDP are "free-spending socialist"s and how they mean "more money taken from the middle class and divvied up amongst interest groups". I'm not saying they aren't, I'd really like to know.
1993: against Chretien 59%
1997: Against Chretien 62%
2000: Against Chretien 60%
2004: Against Martin: 64%
Where were all the self-righteous "will of the people being silenced" rallies back then, hm?
Hypocrites.
Um, simply put.. we <i>did</i> vote for (the parties of) Dion, Layton, and Duceppe; collectively, the three represent the voices of more Canadians than Harper does. What they've been doing these past few days (aside from overplaying their hand) is fighting to make that collective voice heard over the Conservative-supporting minority.
And shooting down Conservative moves they don't like was <b>precisely</b> what they were threatening to do! That's what this whole thing was about! They were going to vote down the Conservative mini-budget thing, which they all very much did not like. Since it was a confidence motion (like virtually everything the Harper "minority" government puts forward), defeating it would have automatically dissolved Parliament, which would mean we'd need to have another election already, unless there was another arrangement among the already-elected members that had the support of the majority of MPs. All this coalition did was indicate that, should it come to that point (which it would, unless Harper was willing to present a mini-budget the majority of elected members could support, which he wasn't), they had such an arrangement prepared.
To claim that this was in any way "usurping" power, or "overturning the election results" as Harper put it, is to seriously -- SERIOUSLY -- misunderstand (or misrepresent) the way our system is supposed to work.
The coalition is completely legitimate and constitutional. This same constitution allowed Harper to "step down" and call another snap-election, in an attempt to grab majority (which he failed to attain. Again.)
Nothing proposed by either of them were as inflammatory as Harper's partisan economic update.
Up until now, the support of the Bloc has also made it possible for the Conservatives to get their bills passed.
What's changed is that the Bloc is now pledged to vote against the Conservatives, instead of with them.
And gee, why wouldn't they, considering that the very first measure the Conservatives tabled after being re-elected was calculated to bankrupt every party except their own?
I don't like the coalition any more than most here. But blatant, partisan abuse of power at the expense of voters should be punished, and it appears to me that Harper is the one who should be made to pay.
He began his career by uniting the right, and it's only fitting that he should end it by accidentally uniting the left.
Apart from their environmental and health care plans, NDP social policies on wages and social assistance requires a lot of money that has to come from somewhere. They also claim to want a balanced budget. Therefore, while some of it will come from corporate taxes (which won't last as it will increase the flight of companies from Canada) the rest will have to be made up in taxes. Now, which group is large enough to tax and able to (barely) cover it without starting a revolution? The middle class. The money certainly won't be coming from the the ones getting the redistribution and we don't have a very large upper class.
Suspending or "proroguing" parliament on the other hand is something thats usually only done when there's a war starting, or there are mass violent demonstrations in the streets against the institutions of the state; not when the government feels they're going to lose a vote of confidence. Suspending parliament is quite a serious thing to do in a democracy.
Regarding the BQ in federal government - ok so they wont be at the cabinet table, but isnt it better to have the seperatists inside the tent pissing out, rather than outside the tent pissing in? i.e. by participating in the running of federal affairs, they come to see the benefits of being part of a united Canada. If you care about that sort of thing that is.
It's not hypocritical. When the Liberals were in power they occupied the political centre, with the Conservatives on the right and the NDP/Bloc on the left. Not everyone was happy but there wasn't mass consensus on which direction would be better.
Now the Conservatives are on the far right with the majority of party/voters on the left, so there is some degree of consensus in opposition. The Liberals/NDP/Bloc don't agree on everything but together they form a majority opposed to the right-wing Laissez-faire policies of Harper.
p.s. at the risk of being lynched, I am happy at the Gov General's decision. The holiday season is tumultuous for markets and it's very unwise to start discussing dramatic changes to government. The breather period should allow all parties - whether you like em or not - to get their shit together, so that when it is time to make these changes they can be done in a smooth, controlled manner possibly without Dion at the helm.
I guess Layton & Dion going to the Bloc for a coalition is a completely different kettle of fish than Harper attempting the same thing in 2004 when Martin was PM with a minority government.
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2008/12/02/harper-bloc-2004/
And, speaking of separatists...(scroll to the bottom)
http://www.harperindex.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=0027
For anyone confused about what a coalition government is, and how it would be applied in the current situation, this link explains it well...complete with piecharts. :)
http://rundp.blogspot.com/2008/12/coalition-government-explained.html
i.e. "We need stability during this economic crisis - not a change of power"
What a pathetic rationale! Did you not see Flaherty's and Harper's lame excuse as a budget? Indeed, that's what got us into this fiasco in the first place! THEIR SHITTY BUDGET!
People, please stop spouting some lame reasoning you heard from someone else. It makes no sense. Stop.
Also, I don't like Harper or his cronies, and I'll come right out and say it. Harper is anti-women and a bully. F*ck him.
Would you let them cancel an election if they knew they'd lose?
The GG was irresponsible for setting this precedent, which, as ppl have outlined, provides a huge window for abuse in the future.
2004: Against Martin: 64%
Where were all the self-righteous "will of the people being silenced" rallies back then, hm?
Hypocrites."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081203.wquebec1203/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
Calling people self-righteous for expecting their representatives to represent their views in parliament is oddly literally appropriate, but I take it you meant it as some sort of insult.
When the majority of Canadians want action on an issue like climate change, and the majority of MPs installed into parliament are in line with that, the government should wind up acting on behalf of those Canadians through those MPs. Coalitions aren't undemocratic, the Bloc isn't about to dissolve the country, and all the suggestions that those things are true are ridiculous rhetoric on their face and ludicrous hypocrisy when you see that the Conservatives were trying to do the _exact same thing_ under Day (see the link).
NOW Magazine has a cut-out sign you can use at the rally, although maybe I'll just use my iPhone and the photo up top. :P
The Coalitions argument (badly made as it is, and not at all by Dion's Youtube-esque fiasco) is that the situation has markedly changed in the last four weeks (i.e. the Tories are finally telling us the truth about the economy) and the Tories are only responding to the crisis to a minimum extent, and then only since there was a threat to their continued governance.
Please tell me you think that proposal was "proper". I have to know if you actually believe in something like that.
And don't assume motivations that you came up with yourself, it's uncharacteristic of a rational discussion.
The fact that Harper called the last election prematurely because he saw an opportunity to gain more Conservative votes (after pledging to pass a bill making it illegal to do so) is a partisan abuse of power.
The fact that after being re-elected the very first measure the Conservatives tabled was calculated to bankrupt every party except the Conservatives' is a partisan abuse of power.
The fact that Harper convinced the Governor General to suspend Parliament for six weeks, solely for the benefit of Conservative MPs (and at the expense of every other Canadian) is a partisan abuse of power.
See a pattern here?
Good decision by GG. I'm quite happy. Putschists must go.
Oh really? Maybe you're confusing Harper with Dion?
Why don't you define communist can say why Dion is one? You dod know what it means right?
And you're comment to Jerrold?
Real creative, not to mention that Dion hasn't been in charge of the country. Thumbs up.
As for you're poll:
A. "With these numbers, a majority is within the reach of the Conservatives, but not yet in their grasp" -Peter Donolo of the Strategic Counsel.
B. [The Strategic Counsel] was founded by Allan Gregg, a former communications strategist of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada
"could easily grab the majority"? Please.
There will be an election this winter (ugh, again), since the coalition has more than questionable leadership and is unlikely to survive a confidence vote.
CPC is polling above 50% nationally and in Ontario. The most recent poll gives a projection of 226 Conservative seats in an election. The Liberals would get 20.
Canadians do not want a leftist-separatist party led by racists. Jacques Parizeau's proposed governing coalition is going to be the death of the Liberals outside of Atlantic Canada. Wiping the floor with the "progressives" is going to be so much fun. Your half-assed grasp of the constitution, political strategy, and economics is almost as funny.
..and there is much more to add, but I can't type anymore today...
your quote
The fact that Harper called the last election prematurely because he saw an opportunity to gain more Conservative votes (after pledging to pass a bill making it illegal to do so) is a partisan abuse of power.
The fact that after being re-elected the very first measure the Conservatives tabled was calculated to bankrupt every party except the Conservatives' is a partisan abuse of power.
The fact that Harper convinced the Governor General to suspend Parliament for six weeks, solely for the benefit of Conservative MPs (and at the expense of every other Canadian) is a partisan abuse of power.
See a pattern here?
We want clean air, quality of life, parks, not necessarily more money(economy).
My ideal scenario for the current situation would be a February election, with Liberals + Greens under one banner. Or if the current coalition holds, with Liberals + Greens + NDP... however I feel that the Liberals and NDP are too ideologically different.
We do need an election. While I support the idea of the opposition parties banding together to call shenanigans on Harper, I don't think any coalition would have the legitimacy and mandate required to manage the country through the tough times ahead. And screw all those who complain about "election fatigue" and cost... this is important, and while the media coverage during an election can be exausting, the actual act of going out there to vote again is NO BIG DEAL.
In the last month alone, while Harper dithered, Canada lost 70,000 jobs. Enough of his failed ideas and failed leadership.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewcurrie/3087046817/in/photostream/
:->
not now when the country has to face economically difficult times.
SAD SAD SAD.
By not fully standing up to Adolf Harper last time he prorogued parliament we have set a terrible president for our democracy. Notice how casually Stephen Harper prorogued parliament this time?
"Oh its just til march so we can recalibrate our government." - Adolf Harper
Yea well eat your fu*king words now all you shills that stuck up for Harper before. Our country is now falling into to autocracy
To reiturate: NO PARLIAMENT NO FREAKING DEMOCRACY. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FREEDOM BURNING YOU SHILLS.