I Guess He Just Really Likes Timbits
Last Wednesday evening around 7pm, passengers on the 165 Weston Rd North bus didn't think much about the driver stopping at Finch Ave near Tim Hortons. Drivers do this often - stepping out for a coffee break if they're ahead of schedule isn't a big deal. But it is when the driver doesn't return.
Shane Munro, 24, who was on the bus at the time, informed me of what happened. "I overheard someone else asking the new driver what the deal was. He said there was no shift change, and they don't know what happened to the other driver. He just up and left!" he explained. The passengers were left on the bus for almost 40 minutes, until another driver came by and continued the route.
The new driver was courteous enough to still charge everyone the YRT changeover fare despite the lengthy delay and no explanation whatsoever. Nice customer appreciation.
I spoke with Brad Ross, Director of Corporate Communications for the TTC this morning, and he had no idea anything had even occurred. He gave me a number to call for TTC customer complaints, and said, "I do apologize though, these kinds of things shouldn't happen and it's certainly not acceptable."
Well no, it sure as hell isn't.
So what really happened? Is this simply a case of one driver covering for another? I'm not sure that we'll ever learn.
UPDATE: Since this post was published, Brad Ross has since looked into the incident and has provided us with some rather interesting information:
- data tracking software equipped on all TTC busses recorded the time traveled from Wilson Ave to Steeles was 28 minutes.
- the expected travel time is supposed to be 17 minutes, meaning there was a recorded delay of 11 minutes.
- both drivers involved are being questioned regarding the stop.
I'd like to personally thank Brad for being so accomodating regarding this issue. However it was still claimed that the delay was much longer than 11 minutes. Hopefully we'll all have a final answer soon.
As for the 40 minute wait time, Brad also noted something which I'm sure we can all relate to: time goes by a hell of a lot slower when you're pissed off.
Comments (48)
I'm not sure why anyone would sit and wait for 40 minutes... I'd have started walking long before that point.
I've noticed something recently. The TTC has started turning off buses as they are stopped at stations and roundabouts.
The routine used to be that the driver would enter the station, drop people off at the drop off spot, pull up to the pick up spot and go grab a coffee/use the bathroom/etc.
With the new 'idle-free' rules, the drivers now seem to stop their bus at the drop off point, turn off the bus and close the doors. Is there some sort of rule that prohibits people from entering a bus that is turned off?
The problem this is having is that with the drivers parked at the drop off spot instead of the pick up spot when more buses attempt to enter the bus bay, they are forced to drop people off outside of the bus bay entrance.
This congestion outside the bus bay then seems to affect the other bus traffic going in and out of the station.
I don't even think its acceptable for a driver to leave a bus with passengers to go get a coffee even if they are ahead of schedule.
Why would anyone wait 40 minutes on a bus and not clue in to find another mode of transportation?
@ryan l - I've seen the bus turned off only once, but the doors remained open (on a 70 O'Connor @ Coxwell Stn.)
The exact same thing happened a few weeks ago on the 64 Main Street South bus. No explanation.
so wait a minute, there's a bus route where there's a 40 minute wait between buses? Umm wouldn't the driver following the one who was stopped not wonder why the fellow in front of him wasn't proceeding and investigate... possibly picking up the passengers to continue on the route?
I have to respond to the people who are clearly equally as obtuse as the bus driver who left..Did you ever think before you wrote your statements., for at least one moment that maybe the passengers have to wait for 1hr between busses on non rush hour service...So the likelihood of another bus coming would be 1hr. Secondly the 165 Weston N, was changing scheduling hours and has a glitch in the timing that causes this problem. Yes it may be foolish on TTC's part, however why would you start to blame passengers for the TTC's shortcomings...I'm certain that you would feel different had you been on that bus...or another like it..Maybe you need to live farther away from the city to realize you are as negligent in your comments as TTC is in their transit system.
@ Carsten - it seems as if the next bus didn't come for forty minutes though, and which point they did get off and go on another one.
@Teena & Jerrold - on my regular bus route, the bus is either always early or late, NEVER on time, causing general morning anxiety - I don't want to leave and just walk to the subway in case the bus is just 5+ minutes late (as it is at least once a week), so I instead stay... I think that sort of thing happened with the people on this bus -- Murphy's Law - The second they get off to walk is the second the bus driver comes back and the bus starts up again.
The worst feeling in the world is ditching a bus to walk cuz it's late and then roughly two minutes later the bus passing you.
Just my opinion :)
The TTC is doing a pilot out of its Birchmount Division that has drivers turning off their buses if it will be idling for more than 10 seconds, save for red lights and other obvious reasons while en route. The bus routes affected feed much of the Danforth section of the BD line. Now, not all buses can be shut off and restarted reliably due to the need to "build up air," which is truly too technical to get into here. But most of the fleet today can be shut off and restarted reliably, and we will be doing that. In a few months, TTC staff will analyze this pilot, looking at fuel savings, GHG emissions, and other issues, like the one raised here about passengers not being allowed onto a bus that was shut off, and figure out the best way to make the 10 second idle a permanent policy across the system.
As for the alleged 40 minute delay referenced in the original post, the TTC has no record of such a delay (hence my use of the word "alleged"), but we are looking into it. I will gladly post whatever information I glean.
Brad Ross
Director ? Corporate Communications
Toronto Transit Commission
Let me just interject here to clear up a few things, as this post is about my experience.
1) Mapquest Weston Road and Finch, to Weston Road and Langstaff. Would you get out and walk?
2) I live north of Steeles. While the 165 North (Westbound according to the TTC website, as most of the route is East to West and vice versa) does run fairly frequently, the 165 A, F and G do not. With the exception of a very brief period during morning and evening rush hour, you're looking at a minimum 40 minute wait time. Feel free to double check that on the TTC's website. So no, getting out and waiting for another bus wasn't really an option, as another one heading to where I live wouldn't have shown up for about ten minutes from the time the bus started moving again.
3) At one point in time, drivers were not allowed to leave the bus while driving the route under any circumstances. However, their union fought tooth and nail to give drivers the right to leave the bus for washroom breaks. Of course, drivers will often use these washroom breaks as an excuse to stop and grab coffee or a snack. You've all seen it happen.
4) There is no scheduling error that causes this to happen. It has never happened before and prior to the implementation of YRT's Viva routes, I took it quite often. However, Weston and Finch IS a common shift change location. But in the event that the driver taking over the route is late, the driver finishing his shift HAS TO STAY WITH THE BUS.
5) We didn't get off the bus and get on the next one. Another TTC employee (who I suspect was riding shotgun on a passing bus and got off to investigate, but I really have no idea where the guy came from) got on and drove the bus the rest of the way. He was not scheduled to drive the route, and had no idea what happened to the other driver.
And finally, to Brad Ross. Alleged nothing. I was there. It happened. But hey, kudos to you on another attempt at covering up the obvious shortcomings of your staff. I applaud you in your efforts to try and dissuade the populace from hating TTC drivers any more than they already do. Does it not occur to any of you higher-ups at the TTC that stuff like THIS is the reason drivers are frequently assaulted?
I do have a couple of questions for Brad Ross:
1)Is it TTC policy that drivers are allowed to leave the bus mid-route in order to get coffee/food (something I have witnessed many many times)?
2) Isn't true that due to the union contract, TTC operators do not face disciplinary action unless a complaint from a rider is IN WRITING, and therefore the complaint "hotline" is basically useless?
This isn't quite on topic with the article, but I was reminded of it from Brad Ross' comments on the new idling rules... and that is that I have yet to witness any buses actually shutting off their engines. At first I assumed that they must only have to turn the bus off if they plan on sitting there for over 5 minutes (which a lot of them do), but if they're supposed to turn off the engines after 10 seconds perhaps they should be reminded of that...
streetcar drivers are just as bad, the street cars are always stopping at 26th and lakeshore for the tim hortons. one must always add an extra five minutes on their commute due to this.
i understand the drivers taking break at the end of each line, but during their run, i don't agree.
Well if there will only be disciplinary action if it's in writing, then I guess I have a letter to write, as obviously my phone call was so unimportant the TTC allegedly doesn't have a record of it.
@bus_hypocrits: Stop being a hermit. I might be negligent but I also use my real name.
@Cassie: That makes perfect sense, I should have read the comments before making one of my own.
Maybe instead of providing negative feedback at every opportunity we should be thinking of how we can help. A very real example comes to mind: http://myttc.ca This website was created independently by citizens as an alternative to the TTC's own efforts at trip planning and it's getting better every day.
Maybe if they provided a reliable service, there wouldn't be so much negative feedback to give. ;)
This has nothing to do with this article, but is in response to a couple of the comments.
Maybe you don't agree with a driver stopping to get a coffee or a snack - I'm not gonna comment on that.
But to imply that a driver should never be able to leave the bus or street car unless they are at the end of their route, that sounds crazy. Do you expect them to wear diapers?
For the record, Shane called the complaint line after I had initially spoke with him, and I wasn't aware of it until after my post was published. :) The call was made well before I spoke to Brad, though. Strange they have no record of it.
Megan,
Are you saying you ARE fine with the drivers stopping in mid-route to grab a coffee or pick-up a slice of pizza (something I witnessed a driver do on this very same #165 route a few weeks back)?
And no, he didn't enter the washroom while inside the pizza place,..........this occured when the bus was already 20 mins. behind schedule.
Maybe you don't have anything better to do with your time than to wait for him to buy a slice but I sure as hell do.
"But to imply that a driver should never be able to leave the bus or street car unless they are at the end of their route, that sounds crazy. Do you expect them to wear diapers?"
and what if there is an emergency while they are away, they are responsible for that bus/streetcar at all times. leaving a street parked in the middle of the road for 5 minutes blocking traffic, making people run late, etc. etc. etc.
TTC employees get breaks just like everyone else does at their jobs, and i have been told by drivers they are relived every few hours to take breaks by another driver. Plus on many routes there are bathrooms provided by TTC, longbranch, subwat stations, dufferion at gardner etc. etc. Plus i never seen driver leave their bus.streetcar to take a bathroom break, just get food/coffee. But arguing this would be pointless, they are supported by their union and will continue to do things like this in the future.
take care....
Privatize the TTC and see how many more times this sort of thing happens. And I've taken the 165 for years and its 40min between buses.
If I dropped my responsibilities and walked off the job outside of breaktime I'd be fired and then sued for negligence. Just sayin.
"Privatize the TTC and see how many more times this sort of thing happens."
Stop and think about how much shoddy service you've gotten from privately-owned outfits over the years. Do you think it'd be *better* than airline service? Do you think it'd be *less* of a ripoff than gasoline?
It's not privatization that results in better service, it's competition. Maybe open up the market to competition - private buses!
I am a one hour photo manager. A TTC operator came in during the morning to drop off an order. When we discussed what time he'd like it ready for, we set a time in the afternoon, and he said "yeah, I'm driving this route all day, I'll just come in while I'm at this stop later today."
True enough, he came in at the specified time to get it. With a bus load of people waiting, he readily admitted. At least he was in a hell of a hurry to pick it up (because of said bus full of people), so that's something... I guess.
Is there any way that it is excusable for an operator to hold up their bus because they want to pick up their photofinishing?
I second Shannon on this one. It just seems wrong that they can leave the bus/streetcar unattended with passengers on board.
funny i just got home from the 506 carlton. The driver stopped, locked us up at carlton and parliament, went into the shoppers and bought a ferrero roche chocolate. took him 15 minutes...
This is where the urban legends about people getting up and driving the bus away come from.
It's not THAT hard to drive one, is it?
One of the reasons the TTC exists is that many, many years ago when competition existed, all the companies competed for the profitable lines and there was no service for the less profitable lines.
Shannon: "what if there is an emergency while they are away, they are responsible for that bus/streetcar at all times."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
soren: "If I dropped my responsibilities and walked off the job outside of breaktime I'd be fired and then sued for negligence"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I want to hear TTC's response to both of these comments specifically. I think this is a very important issue and it feels like Brad Ross allegedly isn't taking this seriously.
Someday, we'll live in a real city.
21 Liberals elected last night, remember that. WE LOVE THE STATUS QUO!
A couple of things:
1. drivers are not permitted to stop and get a coffee mid-route, though they are allowed to stop if a washorrom break is necessary
2. performance issues/complaints do not have to be in writing
3. as I stated, we are looking into this incident, but thus far no record of a 40 minute delay exists - I'm referring to Operations records, not customer complaint records.
Leaving a bus and not returning is an extremely serious allegation. I think it's only fair that the TTC be given an opportunity to look into this before reaching conclusions.
In an effort to close the loop on this, here is what happened on Oct. 8, based on TTC records and data collected from the bus.
The TTC uses technology called "sign posts." Essentially, every bus is equipped with data tracking software that trips a sign post - a detector affixed to light poles across the city and on every route.
At 6:44 p.m. the bus in question tripped the sign post at Wilson Ave. The same bus, with the relief driver, tripped the sign post at Steeles Ave. at 7:12 p.m.
Normally this stretch should take 17 minutes to complete, yet it took 28 minutes, resulting in an 11-minute delay.
Why there was a delay - and why the bus sat empty without a driver - will be discussed with the two drivers in question. No doubt, change-overs should be smooth and delay-free. That did not happen in this case.
I can't account for the assertion that this was, in fact, a 40-minute delay. All I have to go by is the data collected from this bus, which does not indicate 40 minutes of inactivity. Nevertheless, the delay shouldn't have happened, and on behalf of the TTC, I apologize to those customers who were affected.
Brad Ross
Director- Corporate Communications
Toronto Transit Commission
Funny stuff. This just happened this morning on the 95 York Mills Eastbound. We were waiting on the bus for ~20 minutes. Same driver comes back with a large coffee and a snack.
At appx. 6:40am, M-F, the #142 Downtown EXPRESS (double fare) stops at 1871 Avenue Rd. to buy a coffee from the Tim Horton's located in the Shell station at said address. There are always passangers already on board.
Also, Mr. Ross....
You said "performance issues/complaints do not have to be in writing." However, you didn't say as to whether or not a driver will actually be disciplined if the complaint is by phone and not written. I question this because I read a newspaper article sometime ago that stated that only complaints that were IN WRITING would cause the operator to possibly face disciplinary action. It went on to say that this was due to the terms of the union contract. If this is true, isn't the posted "complaint" phone number useless in and of itself? I would appreciate you clarifying exactly what the rules are in regard to this.
Brad Ross,
I for one appreciate the follow-up... I wasn't on the bus in question, but I did boldly call you out in these comments. I think it'd be cool if blogto updated the original story with Brad's recent findings; it's only fair to report both sides of the story.
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