TTC Union: the Propaganda Way

So... if the TTC is worth $12b, and they went on a 2 day illegal strike.. that means the union owes the City about $65.7 million. We accept cash only.

I love how the whole premise of the argument "What if there was no TTC?" has absolutely no grounding in reality. Seriously, has anyone ever proposed this.

Marilyn, you fail Rhetorical Logic 101 for your obvious use of a straw man fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man), so called because it's so damn easy to burn it to the ground.

you certainly have my support, if you can get a motion brought up in City Hall or whatever the appropriate authority is (hmm. destroying a union - that would be int'l news) - wouldn't that be a ruckus? I am just saying don't get your hopes up... and if all goes well, maybe hit at the teachers too (i like the posties though..)

well said!

streetcars idling for 10+ min while we wait for someone to show up for their shift!

SHORT TURNS!!!

no streetcars for 30 minutes and then two showing up back-to-back.

drivers stopping to pick up a coffee!!!

what a horribly inefficient system!!!

The TTC union is a joke. On the Bloor and Yonge line I keep on seeing TTC employees working the gates with their feet up on the money bins - how pathetic. When was the last time you saw an employee of any business greet you with their feet up on a table or chair? I propose that everyone writes to these fools to let them how crappy their service is: atu113@wemovetoronto.ca

I don't understand one statement in the presentation. There is the allegation that local businesses would close.
If travelling was such a hassle, wouldn't you want to shop locally instead of going downtown or to a mall? Moreover, wouldn't that help deter the growth of big-box stores?
Wouldn't there be a resurgence of locally owned services like dry cleaners, bookstores, restaurants and pubs?

While I completely agree that this propaganda vid is complete bs, we must not forget that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between the union (grumpy workers, etc.) and the system itself. Jerrold, your ride "from south Etobicoke to north Scarborough" isn't going to be more efficient any time soon, even if we replaced every single TTC staff member with a non-unionized equivalent. The pathetic public transit infrastructure isn't the union's fault.

-phil

Yeh - Toronto is not for the sensitive and humble -- annoyance begets passion begets anger begets anger begets... violence?
If another snowstorm hits then it won't matter if the TTC strike anyway.. nothing will be getting anywhere..

even though the hypothetical idea is ludicrously ridiculous, it really bothers me that the union would hold the city hostage with our transit system.

I say fire the whole lot, automate as many positions as possible (ticket collectors? who needs em? and montreal + NYC's trains only have one driver - not two.) so thats like 25% of the staff already.

Good god, I used to vote for this woman. The NDP really like to show their lunatic side a lot these days. Likely why I can't bring myself to vote for them anymore.

Shame on you, Marilyn Churley. Toronto doesn't deserve you. This video, and its haunting music will haunt you next time you run for office.

One thing that baffles me is the argument that 30 per cent of the hypothetical $12 million the TTC saves the city is in "increased travel time for individuals."

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that the loss of the TTC would put enough additional cars on the road to more than triple driving times. I realize I'm just one person and everyone's experience will be different, but my travel time from home to work by car is 20 minutes. By TTC, it ranges from an hour to 90 minutes, depending on how long it takes for a bus to show up at Finch station (which, at the very least, gives me plenty of time to catch up on sleep, reading and leftover work.)

Good thing they played up the cost of driving and environmental impact in their propaganda video, because any claim that the TTC is faster or more convenient rings extremely hollow to this rider.

The Video is silly propaganda, of course.

However, the tone of the many of the comments goes o'er the top the other way.

The very 'us vs them' attitude that some here accuse the union of having, is the attitude on display by many posters.

You are expecting people for whom you clearly have little or no respect, who you openly call lazy and incompetent to treat you nicely? You expect them to come to work smiling?

Perphaps some here should look in the mirror before calling someone else surly.

***

Of course some TTC workers are lazy, as is the case in many jobs, union and non-union.

But as everyone blathers on about replacing all the staff, keep in mind, the TTC can't hire enough people to drive its buses, the vast majority of applicants fail the rigourous driving and safety tests; and this despite the TTC publicly appealing for applicants and paying more than $22 an hour to start ($ 28 after five years).

To be sure, there should be more training/incentives for superior work ethic/politeness etc. However, those are very tough to do. For a moment, I challenge the complainers, how do you write contractual language and 'test' for people skills? Hire 'mystery shoppers?', its not something that's easily measurable.

Could the janitors be better supervised? Sure. How? Seriously, how many people should be paid to supervise? What's the auditing standard?

And do keep in mind the TTC has 35 day shift janitors in 70 subway/LRT stations. Not exactly a robust workforce.

That said, the TTC and its staff, can and must do better. But its helpful if people constructively criticize, rather than offer invective.

Jer: Not that being a public body has prevented the TTC from committing the same crimes.

Fares? Upped every year for the past several years.

Service? Cut on many routes (think back to the Mike Harris days) and deteriorating on others through sheer incompetence and mismanagement (hello, any east-west streetcar).

Accessibility issues? Don't forget it took a COURT ORDER for the TTC to consistently announce stops, and new elevators and escalators are being installed at a snail's pace while existing ones are constantly broken.

@Kevin:

You can't truly believe that the outpouring of public disdain for the union is on the same level as the union's gripes with the customers they're paid to accomodate.

The TTC employees are accountable to us, paying customers who also pay their salaries. Their rights are protected under the auspices of the union, but our rights as paying customers of a service and as taxpayers contributing to transit infrastructure are not being served by the actions of the union.

I liked most of my teachers, I smile at my mail carrier, and the lady at my local LCBO is friendlier than she ought to be (that's a whole other story). Unions can do a lot of good. ATU Local 113 isn't, however.

Visit the worthamillion.ca website and leave your feedback. Lets see if they post all the negative commentary they receive.

Something tells me that if you post your comments to the union here:

http://worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=20

They won't appear here:

http://worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=42

Travel time to work by car? 30 Minutes.
Travel time to work by TTC? 2 Hours. Minimum.

Every day on my way home I arrive at Kipling Subway station's bus platform to the same crowd of about two full bus loads of people all waiting for the same bus. Sometimes, if I'm lucky, I can get there earlier to see the previous bus drive away.

Which was helpful, because I was able to use those times to time when the routes are scheduled.

The bus, which is listed as FS (Frequent Service, 8 minutes or less) comes about 20 minutes after the one I always miss. More often than not people are turned away because they can't fit everyone behind the white line. Sometimes as many as another half busload (and I'm sure the next bus ends up with the same problem).


The other end of my trip, northern Scarborough, I often see the bus driver leave his bus to go get a coffee or food. Sometimes he locks his bus, leaving people to wait out in the cold. Other times he leaves it open, allowing dozens of people to get on the bus without paying.

Occasionally he isn't back in time for his scheduled route, 10-20 minutes late, forcing the bus that has crept up behind him to try and get around him to pick up the dozens of people waiting for his return.

Now, I know I have dozens and dozens of stories about terrible TTC Employees. Everyone else has similar stories as well.

In any other industry, people wouldn't stand for it. For some reason we just accept it in this case.

Some comments are always out of line, but Mark, the TTC union has lost our faith. I think it's a bad union. That's possible. I"m pro-union generally, and I want TTC employees to be treated fairly and have well paid secure jobs, but this union protects the awful ones who give the rest a bad name.

Indeed, we love transit, which is why the idea behind this video is fine (toronto needs transit) but the source makes it a shame. The TTC union is trying to scare Torontonians, just as they similarly shit on us during their wildcat strike. You do that, even lefty sympathy evaporates. This is one of the reasons the NDP are loosing people like me, their ideological support of crap.

@Kenny........I'm calling "bullshit". There's no way that you can get to Union station from Mississauga faster than your brother can on the TTC from Yonge/Bloor. Not even during peak hours. Peak hours on the TTC are the same (time) as on the road and everyone knows it takes 3 weeks and two days to get anywhere in Toronto by car during peak hours. Although the TTC is not always the most efficient way to get around, they win hands down in your example. As for the Union, they're nothing but a bunch of winers that like to stir trouble at every opportunity they get. They like to take take take and never give back.

Unions are bad. Period. They were useful back in the days of slavery and sweat shops, no need for them now. They protect the lazy workers while leaving the great ones out in the cold. I used to work for a unionized company, they forced me to pay union dues each week and never did a single thing for me. Where did all that money go? I paid them to keep the lazy asses next to me around for a lot longer than they should have been.

Make sure you also enter their contest to win a Metropass (or propaganda campaign T-shirts!):

http://www.worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=2

Those TV ads are not going to work to garner support for their side. Oh yeah? Every single citizen of Toronto has done good for other people in some way. Where's my TV ad?

It's called doing your job and being a decent human being.

And to the people who say to give the TTC workers slack because we'd be surly too if we had to deal with angry people/teenagers all day: if you don't like dealing with the public, then don't get a job where that is your duty. It's that simple and easy.

No doubt a culture of entitlement persists in the union, but at least partially to blame is a city council that coddles them and acquiesces to their demands. A much different response was warranted to the wildcat strike, but Miller and Co. are ideologically beholden to the union and were unable to offer much of a response. The culture won't change until the TTC is managed as it should be, as an arms length crown corp. or regulated private entity (all the issues raised above re: unprofitable routes, wheelchair service etc. not being in the interests of a private operator can be solved by empowering legislation that requires it). There is no reason that a committee of council should run an entity of this size and complexity, and the results speak for themselves. To use just one example, one gathers that you would not have such a publicity blitz pre-contract negotiation if the guys on the other end of the bargaining table weren't subject to political pressure by their constituents.

I don't know whose judgement is worse: the union for hiring Churley or Churley for associating with the union (I do believe she is seeking re-election/nomination, in which case this is a cheap ploy to gain support from her consituency, also a conflict of interest since they are likely a campaign donor) For starters, she's an doctrinare ideologue (which, as noted, casts doubt on any claims by the study), a poor communicator, narcissistic self-promoter - and, in this case, a partisan useful idiot.

The situation is so bad, that I actually take notice when service is good. Shouldn't it be the other way around? But we're used to bad service so when we have a good experience it's like "wow, that was good".

<i>I've never been to Lansdowne station before.. there are no posting as to which subway stations have buses actually entering them.</i>

Hernando - if you look at the maps on the subway, you'll see a 'T' in some of the stop circles. Those are the stops that require a transfer. That said, I remember how confusing the TTC was when I first moved here (not implying that you just moved here), so unless you pay close attention, it's very easy to miss.

It's so bloody inefficient. Why is there never any more than one token dispenser at subway entrances? When you enter any other metro system in the world you are confronted with at least 10 automated ticket/token machines. Make one guy in the booth an info-man only and give the other guy a mop.

I am one of the biggest transit geeks there ever was, but I have little love for the TTC. Surly workers, spotty service, dirty stations, dirty vehicles, leaky roofs, perpetually broken escalators, ever-rising prices... it's just completely angry-making. I mean, throw us a bone for crying out loud. I understand that you have very little money. I understand that it's hard keeping up with a growing population. What I don't understand is the sheer lack of common courtesy that seems to permeate every part of this operation. You get better service from the 14-year olds working at Burger King than you do from TTC workers.

Trying to remove the union or replace it would be next to impossible, even if the union is corrupt. If they want to shake the Union up a little though they could start contracting out some services.

Perhaps starting with custodial work as a trial to see if it would work. Chances are the services would improve for much less cost. Cleaner stations, garbage picked up more often.

Then move to contract out the non-rail related maintenance workers, such as those responsible for fixing broken doors, light bulbs, etc. Things like elevators are most likely already taken care of by outside companies.

Then the tough part. The TTC Drivers. Contract out the Blue Night Buses. This would be a good starting point for many reasons.

From there, if they could show that contracting out workers is a viable solution to shrinking budgets and has the possibility to improve service, they'd finally have a fighting chance against the union. They'd have to shape up or ship out.

The union would fight every step of the way of course, but with the right spin the city could get everyone on their side.

As encouraging as this all is, and as much as Bob Kinnear deserves all this, questions must be asked of all of you:

- How many of you have voted for David Miller, and twice?
- How many of you voted for Dalton McGuinty, and twice, or three times, in some cases?

Does the fact that the former is a pansy and the latter is a liar not explain why we have piss-poor transit? That they were re-elected with relative ease?

Remember, friends, weak cities elect weak leaders. I mean, attacking Bob Kinnear is necessary, and I'd happily lead a charge to do so, but, I don't know, how about electing a politician who actually has the guts to stand up to a union, maybe?

<a href="http://www.atu113.org/100000club.html";>Salary disclosures of high paid TTC staff</a> (under The Public Sector Salary Disclosure Act):

Of note:

- in 1996 there were 24 members earning $100k plus
- in 2006 there were 227 members earning $100k plus

- in 1996 the Chief General Manager made $144,365.74
- in 2006 the Chief General Manager made over $260,000

Clearly they're screening comments and only posting the ones that make their shit smell like roses.

Over the years I have seen the level of service hit new lows. If you try to crack a smile out of these people they will look at you like you are crazy. I hope that the fine people of this city do not tolerate this kind of ugly behavior from these ungrateful rats.

@Kenny

Your brother must diddle daddle or walk sloooow or something (maybe he'd prefer that you wait for him than he wait for you, and he leaves 5mins later than you think he does). On a Saturday or Sunday Bloor/Church to Union shouldn't take 25+ mins.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

TTC people have to sit in a chair all day getting harassed by assholes like you, then getting spit on and beaten by a totally different group of assholes.

I dislike the same aspects of the TTC and its staff that you do, but it's completely understandable.

Ultimately, though, I think you're all a bunch of hypocrites. On one post people complain that there's no security; in another, e.g. @K, you complain that their security force is overpaid. Here's a lesson in capitalism for you: supply and demand. If being a transit cop is dangerous and dirty, nobody wants to do it. So the city has to pay people more to make it happen. If they lowered the pay less qualified people would apply, security would fall, and there would be even more dangerous incidents.

To reiterate: what the fuck is wrong with you people?

@Piero

You're pissed off that TTC workers have coffee or take breaks? Like you don't spend your days surfing for porn at work you white collar piece of shit.

l2not be such a fucking hypocrite

We all take breaks, we all drink coffee, none of us work 100% - but because people who get spat and pissed on all day want a break it becomes open season on them.

@Ryan

"Trying to remove the union or replace it would be next to impossible, even if the union is corrupt."
Has any evidence been presented that even suggests the Union is corrupt? On the contrary, they seem to be looking out for the best interests of their members - that's what unions do.

"If they want to shake the Union up a little though they could start contracting out some services."
How would you react if you lost your job because your employer started outsourcing? No doubt you'd turn to your union.

"Perhaps starting with custodial work as a trial to see if it would work. Chances are the services would improve for much less cost. Cleaner stations, garbage picked up more often."
What evidence do you have to support this? In my experience when governments contract things out they get ripped off, and the public comes at them for contracting out in the first place.

"Then the tough part. The TTC Drivers. Contract out the Blue Night Buses. This would be a good starting point for many reasons."
Such as? It seems to me like it would drastically increase fares. And what would you get in return? At best a bus driver who smiles. At a cost of - paying a different company to operate busses, train staff, etc., all of which could be done in-house. This seems ridiculous.

In general outsourcing leads to poorer service, sometimes but not always at a lesser cost. Since the complaints seem to be about poor service, outsourcing will hardly be a solution.

@Linda

"Unions are bad. Period. They were useful back in the days of slavery and sweat shops, no need for them now."
You are one extremely stupid woman. There were no unions "in the days of slavery", and workers in sweatshops aren't allowed to unionize, because if they were they would no longer be sweatshops. So you clearly have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

"They protect the lazy workers while leaving the great ones out in the cold."
This is clearly false. But even if the first phrase were true, how could it possibly make the second true? How would protecting the lazy entail the "leaving out in the cold" of the great ones? Explain yourself or STFUMF.

"I used to work for a unionized company, they forced me to pay union dues each week and never did a single thing for me."
Every dollar you earned was because the union negotiated a certain pay amount. If you thought the union was being run poorly you had the option to run for a union leadership role to change that - you obviously agreed with their strategy. Every vacation you took, or vacation dollar you earned, every coffee break you took, was because of them.

@Ryan L.

"Travel time to work by car? 30 Minutes.
Travel time to work by TTC? 2 Hours. Minimum.

Every day on my way home I arrive at Kipling Subway station's bus platform to the same crowd of about two full bus loads of people all waiting for the same bus. Sometimes, if I'm lucky, I can get there earlier to see the previous bus drive away."
So you're upset that.. the service is used? Or that you miss your bus? Would you prefer the bus sat there until you arrived, each and every day?

"The bus, which is listed as FS (Frequent Service, 8 minutes or less) comes about 20 minutes after the one I always miss. More often than not people are turned away because they can't fit everyone behind the white line. Sometimes as many as another half busload (and I'm sure the next bus ends up with the same problem)."
The TTC has recently addressed overcrowding. Furthermore, if it takes you 30 minutes to travel by car, and 2 hours by bus, I don't see why you take the bus at all - even enough to recount this story. I call bullshit.


"The other end of my trip, northern Scarborough, I often see the bus driver leave his bus to go get a coffee or food."
Bus drivers can't take breaks like other workers - i.e. 15 minutes every 4 hours, whatever - so when a bus is running ahead of schedule they can take a small break. This keeps everyone safe, and moreover is perfectly fair - why shouldn't he get a break?

"Sometimes he locks his bus, leaving people to wait out in the cold. Other times he leaves it open, allowing dozens of people to get on the bus without paying."
Do you even read the shit you write? You're criticizing him for both leaving the door open and for closing it. What would make you happy? If he sat there and starved?

"In any other industry, people wouldn't stand for it. For some reason we just accept it in this case."
People pay money to poison themselves with Tobacco, knowing that the companies lied to them for years and continue to do so. But you're right - people just won't stand for a bus driver who wants a cup of coffee! Outrageous!

@Jerrold
"What would it take to abolish the union by legal means (other than time and money)? What if 900,000 of the 1 million riders signed a petition (a realistic possibility)?"

What a stupid thing to say. How 'bout this: "what would it take to abolish religious freedom by legal means? What if 900,000 Canadians signed a petition against Islam?"

Freedom of association/etc. are cornerstones of democracy. Fundamental rights cannot be petitioned away.

@A Grad Student

Your wild stretching of the truth and skewed views on the duties and roles of the union are exactly what we have a problem with and the reason that I've posted and criticized this video here.

People who work in the public sector and are paid by our tax dollars should be accountable to taxpayers. A bus driver is not just paid to drive a bus. A bus driver is paid to drive a bus, and deal with and assist riders when needed (in a kind and courteous manner). Being represented by a union shouldn't mean that if you can press the gas and turn the wheel your job is 100% secure. The workers should still be required to serve customers with dignity and class - and this concept is obvious lost on you.

@Keven

Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're <a href="http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/295876";>more traumatized that soldiers</a> dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!

I submitted this.
Lets see if it gets posted.
Really- worth a million? Maybe a few of the workers are but what about the TTC driver who called me a FXXckin' idiot when I was new to the city and didn't know if I was facing north or south, or the guy who arrives late for his shift at Eglinton holding up the train for 5 minutes, or the streetcar drivers on King who were boasting about beating-up passengers while in and out of uniform, or the TTC employee in the DWA car that sexually harassed me, or the TTC employee that had a button that read "you're acting like I should give a shit" on his uniform? These guys are not worth a million and maybe we would have better morale amongst passengers and less fare hikes if you made sure that everyone of your staff really were worth the million instead of spending however much money on this ill-conceived campaign sure to raise the animosity between the TTC and the people of Toronto forced to use it.

Jerrold, you read that article and all you can do is make some snarky remark about TTC drivers vs soldiers in Afghanistan?

So you've been scowled at - so have I, it's no fun. But has a TTC driver spat at you? Threatened you? Assaulted you? Read that article again and try to see life from someone else's perspective.

@A Grad Student

"You're pissed off that TTC workers have coffee or take breaks? Like you don't spend your days surfing for porn at work you white collar piece of shit."

They take a 10 minute coffee break with a bus, which is typically already late, filled with 40 people who really want to get where they're going.

Actually, last time this happened to me, the driver was smugly wearing a Union jacket, not a TTC jacket, which explained a hell of a lot to me. I didn't even see him make eye contact with anyone who entered the bus.


Tell me. If you showed up for work, late, and then took a 10 minute break with your boss standing behind you waiting for something, AND this happened more than once, would you not be abruptly fired? (But hey, we can't fire these guys...)

@Jerrold
"Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're more traumatized that soldiers dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!"
Here's a red herring if I ever saw one. The claim isn't that TTC operators claim "I am more traumatized than soldiers". Rather, the claim is that statistics show that they are more traumatized, in one particular way. Your beef here should not be with the TTC operators - they merely exhibit symptoms which psychologists diagnose and report to the province.

So are you making fun of medical professionals? Or the TTC operators for exhibiting symptoms? Presumably they have no more control over it than others who suffer from PTSD, and it is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise. Another poorly written post. Less coffee breaks and more research time plz Jerrold, kthxbai.

HOW DARE THE UNION! THE TTC DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM. STOP HOLDING IT HOSTAGE TO SECURE YOUR BULLSHIT WAGE INCREASES.

I have a friend that drives the bus for the TTC
- As for the coffee breaks he advised that this takes place when the bus is ahead of schedule.
- Secondly many of these guys/gals that drive do not have lunch breaks so they have to eat on the fly
- Finally if you are a driver for the bus and you have 2 accidents no matter how minor (if you are at fault) you will be suspended with out pay for a week.
- So its not all that easy for the bus drivers.

I just got this in my email inbox and it made me chuckle out loud. Anyone want it?

>>>>

<i><b>Subject: You've won a Worth a Million T-Shirt!</b>
Body: Congratulations! You are one of today?s winners of a Worth a Million T-Shirt. Thank you for visiting our website. We?ll mail you your T-shirt soon.</i>

<i>Please reply to this email with the following information:

Name
Home Address
If Home Address is not in Toronto, please give us your Work Address in Toronto
Postal Code

Please allow up to three weeks for your T-shirt. If you have any questions, send them to this email address.

Thanks again
The Members of ATU Local 113.</i>

>>>>

@apetimberlake

interesting info. as far as the lunch breaks go, this simply shows how miss managed the system is. if they can't figure out how to give people a lunch break, it's no wonder the system if falling apart...

@ Grad Student

Clearly, I didn't make myself clear and I apologize for that but really, there was no need for you to call me stupid. I see what kind of character you are. What I meant to say is that unions were good back then to "eradicate" slavery and sweatshops. Unions were formed to protect overworked and underpaid employees. Once that was accomplished, the union's vision got lost. Give an inch, take a mile. Furthermore, every break I took in my unionized environment was governed by law, not the union and every dollar I was paid was based on my performance. If I performed well, I was paid well for 6 months, if my performance declined, so did my pay....for another 6 months. This structure had nothing to do with the union, it was created by a non-unionized member ;-) In fact, I was paid more under this new structure than I was under the previous collective agreement. My vacation time was exactly as it is/was in most other non-unionized corporations. Again, the union did absolutely nothing for me. What they did do was take my money to protect the lazy asses who came into work late every single day and refused to work for their money. Anyone whose worked for a union and didn't get brain washed by them knows exactly what I'm talking about. We call them "union-workers" . A bunch of whining lazy assess. I take it you're a "union-worker", perhaps you're replying to everyone here during work hours?

<i>"I'm not happy with the four-year term," explains TTC employee Cam Woodburn. "I'm not happy with the percentage points. Two per cent over four years is not acceptable. I agree with my union executive on that issue."</i>

That was from Citynews.ca, and here's what ass-backward about this. The city's in a fiscal crisis, why is ANY city employee getting a raise?

Now before Grad Student goes wild on me, (and surely to God, if s/he was a grad student, s/he'd find more eloquent language, no?) the article does go on to describe safety issues in the contract. Let's give the union the benefit of the doubt and say that employees that get injured due to some idiot going off for no reason don't get full compensation on time off to recover, and none of this post-traumatic stress crap. That's not right. I would hope this gets rectified.

But a pay hike? Seriously? Sigh. Good ol pansy boy Miller.

@A Grad Student: Interesting that you'd find groundless labelling a weakness in the arguments here. How, then, were you able to tell Piero that he's a white collar piece of shit that looks at porn at work just from his brief comment?

AGS, you might have a few valid points, but your shitty attitude -- the same shitty attitude that turns me off otherwise righteously angry people who seem to WANT lazy drivers spat on and punched -- is just completely outrageous.

check out the woman who sits in the booth at 25 sheppard entrance, shes been there forever she makes no transactions only gives half ass directions. and i have a vid of her watching a dvd will post on youtube.

quick update - the worthamillion site is now showing more comments, some pretty negative. My comment isn't up though.

RE: Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're more traumatized that soldiers dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!

I see nothing in the article corroborating this claim, just people 'claiming' to have PTSD followed by taking up to 3 years off the job.

<quote>
Also, with the help of a $446,000 research grant from the Workplace Safety & Insurance Board, the TTC, along with two Toronto hospitals, this month began a study of drivers who have suffered stress-related injuries. The TTC's chief safety officer says the study should help the commission understand how to best treat sufferers of post-traumatic stress disorder.
</quote>

There are at least REAL studies that have looked at soldiers.

Papers claim a lot of thing (such as the TTC is lazy, see last years' Sun article)

but hey, you read it in the paper, it must be true. Sorry you're so niave.

All I know is that the TTC is dirtier, in greater disrepair, less efficient, and ruder than the larger and busier transit systems of other cities I have experienced.

Whether the union is to blame or not, we deserve better.

Using another city's public transit often makes me realize how ridiculous the TTC is.

My girlfriend lives and goes to school in Guelph. A small city with an understandably small Transit system.

A few things stand out.

1) Free Transit for University Students. Free or discounted transit is pretty common in just about every city with post secondary education. In Toronto however, while high school and elementary school students get discount, University students get nothing. The ones that need the financial break the most. Some Toronto post sec schools offer TTC Passes discounted by a whopping $10, however the supply is very limited (On TTC's end) and many students end up having to pay full price anyways.

2) Communication. When on the bus a few weeks ago I hear something unexpected on the radio system. "Stu, it's Garry. I accidentally passed a girl at a bus stop at Main and Front. I couldn't see her from behind the snowbank until it was too late. Can you make sure you pick her up on the way through and appologize for me?"

The TTC has serious communication issues. I typed up a large example of this...but I realized anyone who has ridden the TTC needs no examples.

3) The Friendliness of Staff

Guelph bus drivers are incredibly friendly. Besides the usaul examples, one recently stands out. While waiting for her bus to depart the University, my girlfriend witnessed the bus driver step out of his bus and in the snow nearby started building a snowman with a couple of the students waiting for a different bus, complete with bic pen lid nose and tim horton's coffee cup hat. When the time had come for his bus to depart, he cheerfully said goodbye to the students and joked that he would radio to the other bus and would tell them to hurry up.

Again, the TTC needs no examples.

@A Grad Student

"People in the private sector get wage increases, they get benefits, and they have rights. City workers are city citizens, and there's no reason why they should suffer because the city is in poor shape - any more than you should, that is."

Private sector workers don't get wage increases when their employers are in financial trouble. They get laid off. Private sector employees suffer MUCH more when their employers are in poor shape. How do you not realize this?

TTC employees should thank their lucky stars they're not in the private sector. And they should show it by providing a respectable level of customer service. They are in the service industry afterall.

Ryan -- it's the schools that negotiate free transit, far as I know. It'd be nice if post-sec students were given the opportunity for a fare discount through the TTC, but all of the schools I know of that get free Metropasses pay the school extra tuition fees for a discounted pass.

For all the bugle oil about how rotten the TTC union is, I'd like to see any of the more rabid of you out there try for just one shift to see what it is like driving a bus in this berg. Babysitting toddlers elicits less whining and snivelling than the average TTC customer. The bus is late? Driver's fault. Snow is flying? Driver's fault. Subways are 60 years old? Driver's fault. Do you detect a pattern here? This is what I hear every day I'm behind the wheel. If we walk, it's because the city, the company and the riding public asked for it. Walk to work for a week and perhaps you will gain an appreciation for you TTC. A little humility is in order so the public will not think that for $2.75, they can own my ass for the duration of their trip.
One day, just one day in my shoes would break most of you.
Have a nice walk. You all need the exercise.

@Mike

Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with the TTC. You make it seem like you're doing us a favor by driving a bus, and we should be on our knees thanking you profusely.

For $2.75, we don't expect to "own your ass", all we expect is a proper level of customer service. For instance, using courteous language would be a start. Showing your paying riders a little respect and common decency would help as well.

What you don't understand, is that the public is your boss. That trivial little $2.75 is what keeps food on your table and a roof over your head. Without the riders, you don't have a job. If you hate your job so much that you need to act like an arrogant ass to your customers, then you need to find a new job. Or that is how it would be in the private sector anyways. Unfortunately for us, you have a union to protect your lazy ass.

So congratulations Mike. Your comments just validated all of our beliefs about the attitude of the drivers. You've just done more for our side than any of us could do ourselves. Thanks again!

Nobody likes monopolies for a good reason. They invariably provide what the TTC delivers - mediocre service, inept management, bloated payrolls. 'Twas ever thus. Public service monopolies are the worst, of course, given how their unions run self-righteous propaganda campaigns, of which this ludicrous piece is a prime example, while fleecing the public purse shamelessly. Other city unions or PSAC are no different - looking out for their own interest while calling it the public interest.

But the TTC will always be a public service monopoly, and so the service it provides will always be this mediocre, its management will always be a political clown show, its union will always be noxious. There's little point in complaining about it, really.

I'd give you my phone number James so you and I could meet if I wouldn't get a thousand calls from everyone who reads this blog. How can I make fool like you understand what it is like to perform my job? You obviously prefer to remain willfully ignorant, otherwise you wouldn't make idiotic statements like getting spit on is simply part of my job. It certainly is not. You try laying charges against some dickless pussy who spits on you as he dashes out the door.
I never, and I do mean NEVER, treat anyone like crap unless they do it to me first. True, I am in the service business. But in today's climate, putting up with simple minded, infantile pukes like you James, simply comes with the territory.
Resorting to name calling isn't my style, but you leave me with little choice. Your notion of customer service translates to this: if you don't like it, quit. That's great. But who would be left to drive the buses? You, James? I don't think you have the smarts to tackle anything more challenging than burger flipper, so I guess that leaves you out.
Anyway, I'm tired of sparring with an imbecile. If you think of anything intelligent to say, say it your dog.
At least you'll be on an equal footing.

I'm outta here.

Attempting to subvert an argument by trying to turn the tables on one's opponent would be a waste of time in your case, James since your argument is not that, but merely a diatribe against bus drivers who for one reason or another have pissed you off at one time.

I'll not pusue an argument with one as woefully ignorant of the facts as you. I'll not try to defend myself against the closed minded. It's sort of like pounding my head on the wall, hoping the wall will begin to make sense.

This city is in steep decline. People like you speed it's demise. Toronto is becoming like the New York of the seventies: cynical, unyeilding and blind to it's own problems. Man's inhumanity to man increases while no on has the stones to face the problem head on. They just close their eyes and their minds and occupy space, not wishing to empathise with anything other than themselves.

We wall each other off until only the walls remain. We are oblivious to all that does not concern us, until nothing else matters but our own exisitance. We disregard all else.

We leave no room for the opinions of others and as a result, we all become irrelevant. Your argument means nothing to me and vise versa. We all think we know better and wind up knowing very little.

Pity.

What the hell would you know of my background, you pompous ass? Then again, who can argue with a liberal?

James, how do you put up with yourself? My origional rebuttal to your first post,regarding how lucky I should be is long dead. We are now simply engaging in tit for tat bs. I grow weary of it, so we"ll just agree to disagree.
But never forget, James, as an engineer, you don't have a clue what a bus driver's qualifications are, or what we go through in a typical day anymore than I know the challenges of your job.

But I know one thing, anyone who knows me and recognises my name on this blog knows that I'm right and you're wrong.

And anyone out there with a rudimentary kowledge of how a transi service works, knows it to.

Ta.

Dear Mike McDonald (real original name, by the way... are you one of the gazillion comedians sharing the same name, or the backup singer for the Doobie Brothers?)

Are you familiar with the "wah-wah!" sound? Boo freaking hoo to you, Mr. TTC driver. You're almost all a bunch of overpaid asses, with the (very) RARE exception. You don't like getting paid almost $30 an hour? Then get another job, or look for sympathy elsewhere.

Jerks!

Dear Mikey MacDonald:

Shouldn't you be off driving a bus somewhere, instead of replying to comments every 15 seconds? Jesus, do you have a laptop perched on your legs next to your oversized (and idiotic-looking) steering wheel on your bus-bus?

Instead of coming off as the voice of authority for the TTC (and I'm sure your employer would love to know how you're reacting, and how much company time you're wasting, by the way), why not list your recent good deeds, like assisting elderly passengers or mothers with strollers? Why always focus on the negative aspects of being a driver? Yes, we know people sometimes treat you poorly, but please appreciate the fact that some drivers and ticket collectors are just plain miserable a-holes, and stop making yourself out to be the perpetual victim.

Mike,

I'm cc-ing this string to TTC head Adam Giambrone, at councillor_giambrone@toronto.ca and encourage all other bloggers to do the same. Good luck explaining your behaviour to him and the union :)

"Just one more thing, poindexter."

If making 5 times your salary, and not getting spit on and assaulted at my job makes me a Poindexter, then I wear that title proudly!

Personal insults? This whole blog is a personal insult to all the TTC workers. You tell us to suck it up and just charge people when someone spits on us and move on or quit.
You know how stupid that sounds, have you had anybody spit on you before?
You many think it's an isolated incident, well it's not I take the calls for ALL the assaults in the city and it's not isolated it happens 2 or 3 times a day that's even reported. That's not counting the other assaults.
These assaults are not because the operator was rude but by simply enforcing the rules.
I had one driver spat on and contacted in the mouth, when they caught the person turned out he had AIDS.
This poor guy has to go through tests for the next 3 months. Imagine coming home to tell your family. Another driver was bit on the hand by a Hepatitis carrier.
These assaults happen ALL the time, to brush it off as an ignorant comment like quit is disgusting.
The $100,000 list you put on here is filled by more than 95% of non union staff members.Why don't you complain about them and the $35.00 an hr supervisors who CAUSE the delays in service.
The union members who make $100,0000, practically live at the divisions on overtime and end up SAVING the commission in extra salary and benefits to another new employee.
TTC workers make no less or no more than any other major city drivers in the GTA.
In fact in BC the drivers their make more than TTC workers.
Tell me what do you think we do with our wages? We got out and spend it in the community, we make more money we spend it out in the city driving the economy.
It's sad when people come in here and bash people trying to make an honest living, than you wonder why there is so much apathy and disdain.
If you think drivers should just sit there day in and day out being blamed for service, fare increases and everything under the sun your sadly mistaken.
Tell me how many people go into a gas station and spit in the cashier because gas prices went up.
Or the Tim Hortons attendant for coffee going up.
Unions at times protect a small minorty of people who shouldn't be on the job, no different than the legal system does.
However Unions have brough in benefits that EVERY worker uses today.
WSIB, OHIP, Health and Safety, 40 hr works weeks. stat holidays.
If you're naive to believe big companies would have given all that without Unions or the threat of Unions your sadly mistaken.
Just go look in any third world countries where by the way ALL our manufacturing jobs are going and see their working conditions, all to save a buck for the owners.
By the way that disgusting comment about the education of a person to become a bus driver.
There are a lot of people through circumstances beyond their control were'nt able to go further than high school and got a job at the TTC.
To dis a person to get a decent paying job and raise a family is reprehensible.
P.S. on the same note if you don't like the job quit. well if you don't like the service by a car!

@ Rocco.

What is wrong with glass shields between you and the public you appear to despise so much? That would solve both them spitting at you, and you having to deal with the dirty fuckers.

Then can we cut your salaries each by 20k/yr, as you no longer need 'danger money'?

Honest living? Gouging the city you claim to love and represent by threatening strikes in the rainy season, knowing full well the spineless politicians will cave, and the rest of us with 'dishonest livings' will just knock another couple hundred off their annual living to line your greedy pockets?

I for one plan on riding a bicycle as soon as the weather improves, so I don't have to put up with the terrible system. East-End to West-End of Toronto is quicker by bike than by TTC. Enough Said.

(a) not true prove it with number.
(b) again prove it, I know some are grumpy majority aren't.
I can go into ANY place in the world and find grumpy workers.
Tell me where you work and I'll PERSONALLY go there and prove it.
(c) again paintin all with the same brush, it's easy to do being a monday morning quarterback, I guess the driver who pulled the driver out of her car before drowning was slumped in a corner.
(d)I have no idea what you are talking about.
(e) When driver leave their vehicle to get a coffee it is usually their ONLY oppurtunity to get any sort of drink.
ALL drivers who start their shift after 3pm have NO breaks I'd be more than happy to prove it by showing you their schedules.
Drivers who work before that time have a ONE break usually 16 min. to 29 mins that makes up for what ALL workers who normally get 2 15min breaks and 1 30min or 60min lunch break.
A lot of times when drivers get a coffee they may be 2to3 mins ahead of scheduled and are REQUIRED to stay that way or may be fired if they go ahead of schedule, which again I can prove.
(f) Timetable on vehicles is STRICTLY CONTROLLED ONLY by unseen $35.00 hr supervisors. Drivers have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over schedules and timetables.
(g) The Union doesn't threaten strikes when the contract is up we are LEGALLY in a strike position, just for the record in 25 YEARS the city of Toronto has lost 8 days of service to a strike, so don't exaggerate, again look it up.
The province has the ability to make the TTC an essential service.
The campain is being paid for by our members through THEIR VOTED APPROVAL, as far as we're concerned your opinion in how we spend OUR money is NONE of your business.
(h)As far as the next bus indicator WE in the UNION think it's a GREAT idea, but don't put it on the doorstep of the Union, that's TTC's job.
Remember it's the Union maintenance staff who over the years have managed to sustain vehciles that in other cities would have been put out to pasture.
EVERY Wheel Trans bus in this city has NO business being out on the road yet our UNIONIZED maintenance staff somehow keeps these buses rolling, again have docuemented proof.
The mechanics at streetcars kept PCC streetcars built in 1939 running until the 1980s, no small feet.
In other cities they have beautiful low floor streetcars.
We are PROVEN ro be the MOST undefunded transit system in North America.
So stop blaming the Union and point your finger at all levels of government who don't properly fund the TTC.
Like I said in my previous posts go to any ATU and CAW contract site and you will find that TTC workers are on par or LESS than other MAJOR transit systems in Canada.
So if you think our Union is going to sit back and let that disparity grow when we are the biggest transit operation in Canada your saldy mistaken.
Instead of crying how overpaid we are why don't you go out there and join a Union and have them bargain a good salary for you and your co workers.
By the way in 1996 the Union made major concessions to sustain the city of Toronto. Concessions that the city still reaps the benefits from, those concessions have added up to over 500 millions dollars in savings, again I can show anyone proof of these numbers.

What the Union spends on its campaign is strictly OUR business, our members voted on it and approved it. If you don't like it turn it off, simple. We're not asking for your approval.
As far as that ridiculous comment you keep on making that when you're in the service industry you have to accept bad customers, is so ludicrous.
I guess you should have been the one, who went to the home of Todd Baylis' family and said " sorry maam but your husband was a police officer and carried a gun, therefore you have to accept the fact in his line of work he might get killed, so sad too bad.
What a stupid arguement you make. I REPEAT NO JOB deserves that kind of disrespect, being spat upon is worst than being physically assaulted. Let people come into your workplace and be sworn at, spit on, assaulted, blamed for things beyond our control year after year and see how you feel.
Along your same logic if you got a problem with a driver instead of sptting or assaulting him, report him.
I have been to many interviews over rude operators and yes they do get disciplined. Maybe I'm sorry not to your liking which would probably be a public flogging, but there is discipline.
Just let me tell you one of my PERSONAL TRUE stories, I had a 30ish male refuse to pay a fare. Eventually hed paid and walked to the back, after a few stops I suddenly felt something pointed to my temple and in a loud voice heard "BANG!! it will be that easy the next time I see you!"
When I looked back he had a toy pistol at my temple.
If you think that incident didn't change me and wouldn't change anyone out there than you're not human. But I guess i should chalk it up to being in the service industry and stop crying about it huh?
By the way I defy anyone on here to tell me where they work and I'm sure you'll find people on here who have had bad experiences with their workers'
I personally have had bad experiences with poor service from doctors to a cashier, but I don't and nobody else spits or assaults them.
Tell me where you work and if not me someone else on here will tell you of such experiences.
By the way the "shields" management has dragged their feet for 2 years to implement them, not us.
We don't get paid "danger pay."
Like I posted before our drivers get the industry standard.Mississauga and Vancouver transit drivers are paid more. ALL of the rest of major city transit workers are equal or near par of every transit workers.
We simply get what the industry calls for.
By the way do you realize 4 of our major wages increase were when Mike Harris and Bill Davis were in power both Conservative governments. While our biggest CONCESSION contract was in 1996 when the so called Union friendly Bob Rae was in power.
So spare me with your Union friendly City Hall rhetoric, ALL politicians are the SAME.
By the way I defy you Union bashers to post on here where you work or what you do so we can tell OUR horror stories of our encounters in your workplaces.
Or will you cower behind your safety shields?

The TTC gets a huge majority of their operating budget from the farebox. Here are some facts of their brilliant decisions.
1. The POP system introduced on Queen St. loses money everyday to fare cheating and the TTC does nothing.Also creating another fare enforcement confrontation for the driver.
2. The 2 hr transfer on St.Clair and the TTC loses more money to fare evasion and another fare dispute situation.
3. The TTC laxes its attitude at asking for student cards, less money more confrontation with drivers.
4. The dual metropass, again less money in TTC coffers.
5. Back in the late 80s the TTC sold Grey Coach which was a million dollar making business for the TTC, again less money in the coffers.
6.It costs around $50.00 to drive every passenger on the sorely underfunded Wheel Trans,less money for the TTC>
7. The TTC has been notorious for spending millions on renovating divisions than within 2 years closing them down (Lawnsdone Division).
8.The new student program for students being mentioned in the news will cost the TTC millions.
9. Awarding the non unionized staff a job evaluation raising the hourly rate twice what unionized salaraies recieve.
10. Proven stat the TTC loses over 80% of their arbitrations with the Union at a cost in the millions to taxpayers.
11. The May incident that shut the city down for 1 day cost the TTC millions and the city, was over driver safty. The dirtier stations that we hear in the media are a repercussion of what the Union told the TTC would happen, now management is thinking of going back to the shifts as they were before the one day incident.
I could go on and on, all these points were ALL decisions ONLY made by NON UNIONIZED MANAGEMENT.
All of these points have HARD and PROVEN numbers.
So before you squawk about few percentages that unionized workers negotiate, look at management for savings.

@Rocco

"I guess you should have been the one, who went to the home of Todd Baylis' family and said " sorry maam but your husband was a police officer and carried a gun, therefore you have to accept the fact in his line of work he might get killed,"

Don't be naive. Every single spouse of a police officer accepts the fact that their husband/wife could be killed in the life of duty, as do the officers themselves. They know that going into the job. However, they're braver than the rest of us, and they do it anyways, because that's what they want to do. If they didn't want to do it, and they thought the risk wasn't worth it, they wouldn't do it. But you don't see cops being assholes to every single person they come into contact with because of one bad experience.

Rocco, if I owned a restaurant, and a customer spit on one of my waiters, that customer would be kicked out and not allowed back. However, if that waiter started being rude to every other customer because he couldn't get over it, he would be fired.

We all agree that there are always going to be rude customers, and those customers should be dealt with appropriately. However the other 99.99% of customers who aren't rude, deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.

Get it through your thick skull. I'm not saying that you get spit on because you're rude, I'm saying that you're rude to everyone because you got spit on by a one person. I'm not telling you to be respectful to assholes that spit on you and hold toy guns to your head. I'm telling you to be respectful to the million others that don't. As it stands right now, a large percentage of TTC employees are rude and disrespectful to EVERYONE! Get it?

By the way our overpaid Unionized employees raised well over a million dollars to the United Way.
I personally delivered a cheque to Mount Sinai for over $35,000.00 for MS.
Every year we send dozens of chronically ill children with their family to Disney to enjoy themselves.
All possible because of the care we have for the community and the appreciation we have for it.
What do your workplaces do or do you do?

By the way I just called 3 TTC locations that keep a record of customer service complaints. The operators name is placed on a list and called in to respond to the allegation.
All 3 locations have about 900 drivers and for this month they have received 12 allegations.
Now having said that I don't know what they were about or if they are in fact true.
So lets say 10 were proven true(by the way most complaints received by the TTC are from the same people which they keep a database of and are either untrue or exaggerated) that would be .9% in one month.
These are hard proven facts, gee a far cry from your unproven allegations.
To give you an example of a trus story, whether you believe me or not I don't care my drivers know it's true a passenger wrote in I wouldn't let them off at a stop they rang for and when I let them off at the next stop I called him a "N" word.
The facts? He rang the bell for a Sunday stop on a Wednesday when he came to the front and yelled at me for missing his stop, I told him it was a Sunday stop he than told me to go F myself and he'd be reporting me, I said one word " whatever".True story, again a documented facts.
But according to the posts in here being in the customer service industry it's part of my job and I should have said Thank you sir may I have another. Instead I was so rude and I said "whatever".
But this person well try and blow things out of proportion and lie to make sure their complaint gets through.

By the way what about this blog is this the Anti Union propaganda site?
Like I said the next time anyone in here uses WSIB,OHIP,sick days,Health and Safety,have a stat holiday,a weekend off, work 40 hrs, earn at least a minimum wage thank the Unions.
If you believe otherwise you are sadly mistaken just go to any workplace in Mexico, China, Taiwan, India even in Right to Work states workers are treated like garbage, why do you think Wal Mart is so successful.
But judging by the posts in here we should ALL be smiling greeters at WalMart because they are the beacon of customer service in the world to hell with the workers.

@Rocco

I've never been part of a union. That is because I'm highly educated and my skills are in demand. Companies offer me benefits because they are competing with other companies for my services. I don't need a union to protect me, my education does a better job.

Hey Rover, or Doggy whatever. Have you ever thought that perhaps the un-uniformed drivers you spoke of were new hires not outfitted yet? I didn't get my new uniform for three months because of the number of new employees that year.
Just a point I wanted to make illustrating that most of what you're yelling about is bullshit. Uninformed, ignorant bullshit.
Don't open your mouth again, lest you stick your other foot in it. That is unless of course you like the taste of your own fungal feet.
Now STFU and leave the blog for informed debate. And it seems Rocco and I are the only informed ones here.

@Mike

TTC drivers, and informed. Hmm. That's a pairing I've never heard before.

Oh that Mikey, you'll eat anything!

Rocco brings up valid points. You on the other hand are just a goof (and a fat one, I'm sure) who presumes to speak for the entire TTC membership.

Guess what? You don't speak for anyone, other than your foolish self (and a one-sided conversation it must be). I love how you're posting this after work hours, what a man you are! By the way, just in case you didn't get it the first time, YOU WERE REPORTED TO ADAM GIAMBRONE AT councillor_giambrone@toronto.ca Chew on that for awhile.

And before you shoot off your mouth again, the vehicle I took this morning was a Queen eastbound streetcar. The driver was NOT in uniform, nor was he a newbie. At least 80 per cent of drivers on Queen and College/Carlton are NOT IN UNIFORM, geddit? Do you want me to take a picture next time?

"Leave the blog for informed debate?" Are you kidding?! With your comments like "One day, just one day in my shoes would break most of you. Have a nice walk. You all need the exercise," you are the one lacking in sanity.

God, what an embarrassment you are to the TTC, if indeed, that is where you do work!

Again, folks, time to complain about this dickwad to councillor_giambrone@toronto.ca

By by, Mikey. Don't let the turnstile hit you in the ass on the way out (oh wait, maybe you'd like that ;)

James,

C'mon, let's not pick on Mikey too much here! It can't be easy for him, being the sole employee in charge of cleaning the glory hole in the men's washroom at Bloor Station ;)

On the clock? I'm at home my real name is Rocco and I am a full time Union rep who can be called 24/7.
I no longer work for the TTC but I work for the ATU.
Mr. Giambrone knows me VERY well and have sat across from him in meetings many times.
Once again you digress to personal insults about education level, my comments have been factual and truthful and no time criticized your education level.
You insulted me first with the thick head comment.
Remember in management courses when someone is wrong they usually digress to childish insults.
All figures can be requested under the freedom of information act.
By the way doctors, police, fire fighters, paramedics, nurses. professors ALL have associations or unions both the same organizations that protect jobs and their rights. I guess they're all overpaid as well.
You still miss the whole point Unions created all the things I posted before, or the atmosphere to bring them in your so called consulting company offers you things that were created by Unions.
Go see what consultants make in third world countries.
Again what does ones level education mean in the job they have. There are many people who ar TTC drivers, police officers, city workers who have different levels of education from high school to years of university.
Through different circumstances they ended up where they are I applaud them as I applaud you.
There is no shame in hard days work, whatever you do.
We with Unions only wants what's fair.
It's a shame someone with your education needs to constanlty slur people who don't have your level of education.
You also show your ignorance about police officers and paramedics. At NO POINT do I say our drivers have as hard as of a job as them, all I pointed out is that when 1 of our drivers was shot he was being financially punished.
By the way not all officers are on the front line their are many who never leave behind a desk, do they face danger? No, but their skills are probably put to good use their and they deserve their pay.So once again I state that at no point did I say a TTC drivers job is as risky as a police officer. ALL jobs have their own difficulties as does yours, I have never criticized anyone's job in here unlike yourself.
As far as your consulting job do you honestly think that your employer wouldn't sell you out to save a buck one day.
Look at those poor guys who got educated went to work for Bears Sterns leave work on Friday when their company was strong and suddenly because a bunch of billionaires want to make more money they screw the everyday Joe.
You think these billionaires care about their "highly educated consultants?" Yeah right.
It's still sad to see people in this day and age criticizng someone making a living.
Tell me James where do you think it would end?
Fine go out find new employees and pay them $20.00 an hr.because you'll find them, after that find people to do it for $15.00 an hr.
Tell me where does it end?
Do you think it would stop in our industry? You think you couldn't go out there and find people to do policing for $25.00? In a heartbeat just look at all those private security firms and see how they are treated and paid.
It's a slippery slope that ALL industries would face. The only one who would move ahead? The politicians and the millionaires and billionaires, who care nothing for their employees.
So again I told you my name, so is James your real name?
You comeback with people live with the complaints but can you prove this? No it's just a typical response from someone who can only throw darts, no facts just fiction and than try and twist things.
Just ask Adam about the complaints and he'll tell you the facts. Oh, you can't do that because I already know your response "he's a politician, he always lies." By the way Adam is a trying his best.
AS far as this blog I stated the obvious you criticize the Union for putting out our message which again I stated is paid by our members and is none of your business, if you thinks it's all lies and b.s. do what i do when there's something on TV I don't like I change the channel.
Someone with your education would know how to do that.
Management is well aware of who I am, I've been threatened even by the right wing anti union Sue Ann Levy of the Sun to send my comments to the TTC. Go ahead I stick up for the Union and my members.
See someone like yourself wouldn't understand I pick people up when they are down not step on them.
Funny you still haven't responded to my points about management short comings.
Looking over some of your other stuff, do you read what you post?
I posted that 99.99% of the customers are good and you want to send that fact to Adam? Go ahead.

There you go again James insulting a person on his level of education.By the way did you know Einstein failed his entrance exam to school. I think he went on to be famous.
So James because you make 5x what Mike makes that makes you better?
Somehow you contribute more to society than any bus driver.
Insult, insult and insult that's all you seen to do.
Tell me what's a proper education?
My parents came to Canada with NO EDCUCATION in the 60s opened a successful business raised 6 kids who went on in their lives. I'll take that over any PHD you can provide.
Tell me what education did your parents or grandparents have?
If it was less than yours did it make them less of a person.
By the way anyone else who is posting in here who doesn't have James level of education, why are you supporting him when he's probably insulting you and or your family members.
Tell me James do you have kids?
If you don't or if you do what if they decide not to go to university does this make them less of a person to you?
Petty, petty insults are so easy to make.
By the way an average salary of a TTC worker is about 60,000, at 5x his salary you make $300,000.00 a year.
At that rate I doubt very much you take the TTC on a daily basis, because if at that rate with the way you despise the system so much, I'd be taken my Ferrari to work.

@Rocco

I made the comment about you "thick skull" because you didn't then, and do not now understand my point. I don't care about services delays, coffee breaks, etc. That is why I'm not addressing your management questions. I care that the TTC drivers put a smile on their face when at work, and that they act courteously and professionally. When is the last time you've seen a subway ticket booth worker act like that? I never have. Not once.

You ask me for proof of these numerous complaints? Read this comment thread from the top. Do you know how many Facebook groups there are that are dedicated to complaining about peoples TTC experiences. I'm sorry but there is ample evidence. If you are too naive to realize it, that is not my problem.

You're right, all those professions have unions. However, I have never seem a ad from one of those unions that is overflowing with propaganda like the one your union has created. It's disgusting.

My employer would most certainly love to get the same services for cheaper, however if they want my level of skill, then they will have to pay the price. If someone comes along to do it cheaper, I will just increase my skill level. Pretty simple actually.

What you spend your money is your business. But I have the right to criticize it if I want. I especially have to right to criticize it if I think it makes our city look bad, which it most certainly does.

@Rocco

You should take a look at who started the insults. It was your co-worker Mike, whom I believe stated that I am not smart enough to work at Burger King. When someone with a much lower education level than myself wants to play the "smart" card, I put them in their place. I don't really care what you think about that. I'm just saying, I never bring up education unless someone else does first.

@Rocco

Not surprisingly, you've completely missed the point again. My point was that police get 100% pay if they're shot because they can't run. They have to stay and try and disarm the person, possibly putting themselves in the line of fire as a result. Consider it danger pay.

I just read the rest of your comment, and you've made yourself look like quite the UNEDUCATED idiot since it was based on a completely false interpretation. I find it quite hilarious.

Wait a second I take the subway more convenient, faster and no parking problems? What gives I thought it was so horribile?
No you insulted everyone in here with your talk about education.
If you are so educated than you should walk away from petty insults instead of engaging in them.
Bringing up thoughtful and intelligent ideas.Like I've tried to do.
When someone else does first you sound like a whiny little kid saying "he started it."
Oh yeah but I forgot you don't flee.
By the way you don't gave a right to critcize, like I said if you don't like the ad say so once move on, like you would in a bad movie or tv show.
By the way Facebook what a waste of time, tell me are you on the site at the office like a lot of educated workers are when they're not supposed to be.
Tell me James how many hours in the day are lost to people like yourself who work in offices to time spent on the interne.
It's always in the news, maybe ALL these unproductive workers should be fired.
How many are downstairs 4 or 5 times day instead at their desks grabbing a smoke.
All those HUGE huddled masses I see out front on King Street can't all be on a break.
If you believe that you are truly naive or a liar, they should all be fired right?
You mean to tell me honestly while at work you or any of your friend have NEVER at ANYTIME accessed the internet for your own personal use on company time?
If you say no I don't believe you, it's ALWAYS in the media.
As far as Facebook again there are postings there probably for men who like argayle scoks.
To use Facebook as some sort of sounding board is ridiculous.
I guess you get your news from YouTube.

I missed the Tim Hortons comment Billy Bob?
Tell me other than myself and Mike does anybody else on here have the balls to stick up for people.
What the hell is Billy Bob supposed to mean, now I'm mad you ignorant piece of crap.
My neice who is going through U of T works parttime at Tim Hortons so she can help pay for her education.
She has the audacity to stand on her own two feet and not take everything from her mom and dad who were glad to pay for everything.
The term Billy Bob supposed insinuate a hick or something.
If you see a lot of people who work there the vast majority are students and new Canadians trying to a make a living.
Yet you find some pleasure into constantly insulting people who don't live up to your level of education or salary.
Tell me do you have the balls to tell me where you worked when you were a student or what your parents did growing up.
Again I'm proud of the fact my parents came here in the late 50s worked for 50 cents an hour in a laundry. Yet somehow managed to open their own successful business and prosper and raise a family, like the rest of our proud country did.
Sorry we Billy Bobs don't live up to your expectations.

@Rocco

You seem to have some severe emotional problems. You overreact to everything.

Billy Bob is just a generic name I use. Like John Smith, or Jane Doe. Honestly my friend. You really need to calm down.

I'd like you to point out exactly where I insulted any rider on this blog.
All my info is factual you have failed to respond to my facts whether you believe them or not.
You constantly harp on only 1 point the fact that your feelings are hurt that the collector doesn't smile at you.
Yet you don't come up with something substantial, like the person insulted you or swore at you, maybe he had a bad day do you know. We don't live in a perfect world, do you smile everyday if that's your only complaint I think you can do better.
I don't get my knickers in a knot when I go do my banking and the teller fails to say thank you.
When I look in the news everyday and see REAL problems like getting off a bus and not getting blown up, than I would worry.
As far as you not being on the internet during work hours I don't believe you.
As far as it matters to your employers whether your salaried or not, tell you what you know exactly where I work tell me exactly where you and your salaried friends do I call your employer what their feeling of salaried workers being on the internet for their OWN use during office hours and let me see their reaction.
If it's not a big issue why is it ALWAYS in the news.
First chance you get send an email to Adam write him Rocco from the Union claims that 99.99% of the workers are good and courteous workers and let him tell you or me that I'm wrong I challenge you to do this and respond back in here with your response and that any employee unionized or non unionized that is proven otherwise is dealt with. I know becuase I've personally dealt with these issues and drivers are suspeneded,receive training or completley fired.
Good for your parents but you are full of it I defy anyone one this site other than yourself where you haven't made a point that somehow education makes you a better person and allows you to have a better job and that someone who say works at Tim Hortons is a jerk.
You can spin it all you want just read your own posts.
Or like I said before I defy anyone else in here to say I'm wrong and show me where.
Over react? Your the one who's upset because some guy in a booth doesn't say good morning to you. What do you want next a salute?
Stop kidding yourself and anyone else in here when you made the reference to the name Billy Bob. I'm not stupid you knew full well what you meant by that statement. So does anyone else in here and again does anyone else in here feel that the use of Billy Bob doesn't infer something. Come on James don't insult our intelligence you aren't the only educated one in here.
Like I said before calm down? That's the difference between someone like yourself and me I pick people up at all costs and try and make things better for workers.
You on the other hand which I can quote through all your posts insult where they work and their level of education.
Tell you what here's something for you my friend in case you don't get one from one of my friends in the booth tomorrow. :) :) :) That should take you through the rest of the week, yeah there are three of them remember I hope you aren't working a statutory holiday, and don't kid yourself brought to you by your friendly Unions.
Do yourself a favour look up the great Tommy Douglas and see what his socialist union ideas did for Canada. Can we say universal health care.
Just look it up it was the doctors who didn't want it. Why you may ask they didn't want gee their bottom line profits.
So at times it amy not be the best( I feel it is)anyone can walk into a hospital in Canada a get taken care of.
All fought by him and the Unions, proven facts!
:) :) :) :)

@Rocco

Ok. So your not only uneducated, but you're emotionally unstable as well. I would really recommend you talk to a psychotherapist. Fortunately, I'm not even going to bother replying to that last one. It was such a jumbled up piece of nonsense I don't even know where to start.

So just keep thinking there's some big conspiracy behind me using the name Billy Bob. I'm sure it's not the only conspiracy theory you have.

Honestly, if that mess if reflective of your daily thought process, I really feel sorry for you.

Anyways, good night Rocco. I really hope, for your sake, you get some help soon.

I will wait for your response James but I'll help you out.
Rocco you need therapy you are a rude, uneducated and an overpaid TTC worker.
Does that help you?

@Rocco

You say you want to have intelligent debate, yet your writing is so poorly structured and jumbled up that it's not possible to respond to. It's clearly the ranting of someone who is deeply angered with their lives, and blames everyone else for where they ended up.

So Rocco, if you want to debate properly. Then why don't you pick say 2 points, and write two paragraphs. Not 10 points in one giant mess of a paragraph. When your writing becomes coherent, and free of conspiracy theories, I'll respond to it.

Until then, you can just keep yelling and screaming from your soapbox.

Does anyone in here other than myself see a trend here.
Every post James has made towards me have ALL related to claiming I'm uneducated, ranting, yelling ( by the way I wonder how he can claim I'm yelling through my typing?).
and being emotionally disturbed.
Yet he has not made ONE valid arguement to any of my posts.
I know at times I go on and on, but in my defense I'm trying to put out as much real info as I can.
However James can only rhetort with insults.
Other than James can someone on here please post if I'm wrong.
It was James who started this blog, I hope he didn't expect no one to defend TTC workers.
If that's what he wanted he shouldn't have opened this site up to debate.
I await for any of your responses.
:) :) :) :) :) :)

Come on James get over yourself just post ONE response.
Remember I'm not capable of coherent thought I'm uneducated.
:) :) :) :) :) :)

By the way James don't worry about me.
If I at anytime embarrass myself I'll accept that responsibility.
You don't need to worry about that, I'm man enough to suck it up when I have to.
I unlike yourself don't need to insult people to make a point.
:) :) :) :) :)

Sorry folks I made a mistake in my previous post better correct myself before James calls me uneducated.
"Well folks which one will "he" pick? I think (d).

Sorry Doggiez TTC drivers do not get 3 hour long coffee breaks.
Morning straight 8 hour shifts get ONE 16-29 min break. That's it.No lunch break.
Straight 8 hours shifts that start after 2pm get NO breaks.
I can personally take you to one of our locations and show you our schedules to prove this.
So far on here you've been okay, but feel free to be like James and post some sarcastic comment about how TTC drivers are fat and lazy anyway and don't deserve a break.
Heard it before lets move on.
:) :) :)

Remeber like the good Lord said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus, Rocco, relax! But please don't quote The Bible: it comes across as sanctimonious.

Rocco, I admire that at least you have the guts to post your comments, I really do. I admit I was being a tad sarcastic, not towards you, but the ever-elusive "Mike MacDonald."

I wish we could all just get along, drivers and passengers alike.

See Doggiez look at Lees' comment sarcastic and rude.

Ho ho ho so clever Lee.
Simply amazing how you need to resort to childish rude comments.
Just points again to your rudeness.
Post something that has merit and meaning.
See Doggiez, what we have to put up with.

All of this being said with my buddy by our glory hole right Lee.

Mike we didn't turn it into a pissing contest.
Some of the guys (not Doggiez) decided to come in here and bash TTC workers and feel no repercussions.
Just like the cowards who spit on drivers and run out the front doors.
The fact we defend ourselves with facts is totally oblivious to some of these posters.
Just look at James not one single response to my post just accusations of poor education and emotional problems.
Lee comes back with childish responses.
Hang on " did to Lee".
" did not".
" did to".
" did not".
So don't be surprised by their responses Mike just do what we do best brush it off like the gobs of spit and move on.
It's not worth it just stay focused and professional let them digress to childish inane banter.

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I guess more propaganda. Sorry about the spelling mistake James.

We'er still out here, Rocco. Us professionals that is. 24-7, holidays and Christmas when the doggies and the James' are eating turkey and drinking too much.

Well Karl everything you posted relates to ALL problems created by TTC management and the underfunding of all levels of governement.
The Union has brought ALL those issues to the TTC.
We agree the transfers should have gone by way of the dinosaur.
We have been after them to get rid of them for years.
Thank you Karl finally someone on here with a THOUGHTFUL and INTELLIGENT post.

Rocco,

While I think cameras are a good idea, we still need to raise a number of questions:
1. Why spend $21 MILLION on cameras? Good God. How many estimates did the TTC get before coming up with this figure?
2. Would the money not be better spent on some sort of alarm system (flashing lights, etc. on the outside of a TTC vehicle) to alert police and paramedics to a problem? This would be similar to the system installed in many cabs in Toronto.
3. If the TTC does install cameras, is it necessary to have them run 24/7, thereby adding to the cost, or install motion-capture cameras that take a frame ever few seconds? These cost waaayyyyy less!
4. The thing that concerns me the most: abuse by nefarious TTC employees. While I respect many employees, there are bad apples in any organization, and what system(s) would be in place to prevent, say, cameras in women's washrooms, cameras looking up skirts, spy cams, etc? There are far too many examples of this having happened (change rooms, public washrooms, etc.) to list. And if the cameras are wireless, so much greater the potential of abuse.
5. All things considered, will cameras also focus on employees involved behind the scenes, such as on caretakers, ticket collectors, subway workers, garage mechanics, and especially, security?

All points to consider.

@ Doggiez

First; buses and streetcars already have a silent alarm system to alert police.
Second; The cameras being installed are digital, so constant running or frame capture, they cost the same. Perhaps they would have helped police catch the gangbangers that shot that 9 year old girl on the Jane bus a few years back.
Third; by law, cameras cannot be installed in public restrooms, only overlooking doorways and entrances, besides, there are enough pervs out there doing the skirt thing.
Fourth; all the employees with the exception of perhaps maintenance and garage personnel are already on camera. Look at the next ticket booth you see, they've been on camera for decades.
Surveillance camers are indispensible police tools in investigating crime on the system. Witness what happened after the London underground bombings in July, 2005. Images caught on public area cameras were instrumental in not only identifying the bombers, but also helped break up other cells that were planning further attacks. That saved a lot of lives.

Folks, read the front page story in today's Nat'l Post.
We all need to lighten up a bit.

@Randy
Buses, streetcars, subway and LRT have had comm with poilce since the eighties, and that is still currant.

You guys are way off topic. This isn't a forum to ask questions about TTC problems. It's a comment thread for a blog post about the shitty attitudes of TTC drivers and the propaganda spewed out by their union. If you want to have a Q&A about the TTC go somewhere else. No one here buys your bullshit anyways.

Oh so this is a blog about attacking drivers.
Lee why don't you just do what you normally do and spit on drivers instead of being on here.
Tell me is Lee even your real name?
Rocco is my real name and Adam know me well, I'm not putting my last name on here.That would involve my family and that's none of your business.
By the way Bob Kinnear is looking over my shoulder while I type this post.
As far as Adam like I posted before send him anything you want or call him, email him whatever he knows exactly who Rocco is.
I'm not afraid.
Tell me whar is your real name and where do you work?
Coward!
Come on Lee why don't you post one of your brilliant posts about me and Mike and our glory hole.
Keep turning this blog into a pissing match.
I WILL PISS AS HARD AS YOU CAN!
I WILL DEFEND THE UNION AS MUCH AS YOU SLAM IT.
By the way enjoy your stat holiday this week the one that Unions created for EVERYONE.
Don't kid yourself if you think employers would have given out anything.
If you believe that I'll sell you some swampland in Florida.
So keep it up Lee, no problem I will match you post to post.
Here I'll help you like James.
(a) lazy
(b) overpaid
(c) useless
(d) all of the above

By the way Lee I'm sure Adam will be impress with your "glory hole", comments.
Real intelligent Lee.

James!

Where are you. man? We're getting our asses kicked by these unionized Neanderthals!

Help meeeeeee...!!!

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