Oh, Toronto, what's happened to you? (An angry diatribe)

1) the ttc is by far not the cleanest system. Montreal's is larger and cleaner. Montreal's is also more beautiful, better designed (esp. compared to that kitschy new museum station HA!) Montreal also has a cheaper and more useful system.

2) toronto's architecture is lame. The ROM is a joke, and the rest of the architecture is banal and lacks design. COme visit montreal, or compare the OAA awards to the OAQ awards - you'll see the difference.

3) health care costs so damn much cause we pay our damn nurses so much. my girlfriend is a nurse. she makes 55 000 to start. This is by far, exorbitant.

4) toronto sucks, and you know it.

I'm a little detached from Toronto, here at the Globe. I only walk on a couple of streets, go to the same restaurants, and hang out with mostly the same people. I'm kind of guessing on what's going on in the city. Give me some slack, ok. Plus, Globe readers aren't so interested in the in-depth thoughtful stuff. Just look at how the Globe Toronto (or Globe T.O.) has degenerated into mostly fluff and celebrity coverage, save the occasional good article or Barber's fine column.

I will agree with JT on #1, Montreals transit is way better.

2) But Montreal architecture being better than Toronto? I travel to Montreal a lot and I do think it's the best city in Canada to live in. But as a tourist, aside to the nightlife there is nothing else there....nothing to see at all...including architecture.
3) Not cuz of the nurses. they are underpaid in Canada. A simple trip across the border will bring up your girlfriends salary up $15 0000.
4) Toronto is awesome and we all know that. Montreal is awesome...Vancouver is awesome...

look at the current development in toronto.

the cultural square that is dundas square is really a corporate disaster, surrounded by the awful, ugliest building in the world METROPOLIS. This building could have been something - next to the eaton centre, at dundas + yonge, on top of dundas station, but sadly, it is an abomination. I could see this building in brampton or mississauga.

This development reflects the common trend in toronto. business + corporate - oriented development that comes at the cost of our city and its public space.

get it together TO.

I don't think its Toronto's fault that the federal Conservatives don't help out...its the, um, the Conservatives fault!

Who gives a shit which city is better. We should be pulling for all of our cities. Canadian cities are so different and that's what makes them so interesting. Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver are all places that kick ass or at least could kick ass if the politicians weren't a-holes who waist money on BS.

What our cities need is better infrastructure and politicians/leaders who can think big. Toronto is plaqued by mediocrity. Everything is done half-assed. It's hard to be inspired here - this is why a lot of artists leave as soon as they have the means to do so. It's a shame because Toronto has great potential but everone seems to piss on it.

I'm from Montreal, I have been living here for over 10 years and I totally disagree with jt.
There is great architecture in Toronto, and the people are so nice, so cosmopolite...the mentality in this city changed a lot since I first moved here, and for the best. Hopefully the mentality will continue to be more convivial, open and artsy.
As for the TTC well...I feel more safe on in a TTC train and a STM train (which should be called a bus since it rolls on tires!). It's the third biggest system in the world after Mexico and NY...So they have to re-think the way to administer the Rocket. The TTC user are being taken for a ride right now with all these fare increases!!

Montreal has better architecture. this is something that is confirmed by looking at the OAA awards vs. the OAQ awards. With Diamond and shmitt and Kpmb winning awards in ontario, you know its in a bad place.

THis is also true by taking a look at the candian architect awards. every year, they are dominated by montreal and quebec firms, with only one or two ontario projects.

Montreal is recognized by UNESCO as a city of design.

Toronto hires starchitects to build buildings that are total kitsch and exist everywhere else. the rest of the buidlings are either condos (no range of housing types) or they look like condos.

see this project for an example: http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_marcl/ryerson_29Jan08.jpg

here KPMB + ryerson have an opportunity to do something nice. connect to the TTC + the city, front on yonge, etc. Sadly, they have built a condo -like structure. YAY toronto architecture!

the metro in montreal has tires because the city is not flat. the metro needs to go up + down hills. If you recall, there is a mountain in the middle of the city.

the mentality in toronto is full-out corporatism. that should not prosper.

ever heard of the OMB? it only exists in Ontario, and it allows developers to build what they like. In other, BETTER cities of canada, like vancouver, montreal, they have design committees to decide what gets built.

@1: Exorbitant? Gotta wonder why more people aren't clamouring to be nurses then.

Toronto, like all big cities, is doomed to suffer the nostalgia of old people and small-towners.

The TTC suffers mainly because it is not subsidized by the provincial or federal governments. Cutbacks in service levels and increasing fares will always be the norm unless the higher levels of government step up or it is privatized and the model changes completely.

Subways are loss centres for nearly all cities. As far as I have heard, there are only two subway systems in the world that actually turn a profit on their own without massive subsidies: Tokyo and New York-which also happen to be the two most used systems in the world.

sad: Toronto actually has a design review panel as well. And the Ontario Municipal Board doesn't let developers "build what they like". It's an appeals body where developers, individuals and even municipalities can contest decisions of city council or developments that affect their interests. Developers aren't guaranteed a free pass at the OMB (though some argue that this is almost always the case). They also pay through the nose for lawyers and consultants to represent their case.

I don't get it. You like these ugly condos sprouting up all over the city? Widening income disparity doesn't bother you? You don't think we should be getting more of our tax money back from the provincial and federal levels to improve our infrastructure? You think it's good that the mayor doesn't have the power necessary to truly effect change? The fact that people aren't rioting in the streets is proof that everything is hunky-dory and we can ignore our problems?

(the metro system is LA is not "mostly unused" by the way)

I don't think anyone here thinks that everything is hunky-dory. I think it's more likely that people doesn't respond well to over-the-top hyperbole from another nostalgic boomer.

The TTC is far from vile but it's definitely not clean. Tokyo's transit is clean. Frankfurt's is clean. Singapore's is eat-off-the-floor clean.

@1: "Damn nurses"?!? Do you have any idea what it is nurses do?

I understand most points here, but how anyone who has actually used the Montreal metro can claim it a better system than TTC... I have no idea. Once you get used to TTC frequencies, Montreal's system feels very, very, very deficient.

the point, I'm assuming, of this article was not to start a silly 'mine's bigger than yours' toronto/montreal war.

toronto in the 70's simply cannot even remotely compare itself to what toronto is presently, and where's it's going. does toronto have flaws? obviously. is it an incredibly young city, still learning and adapting? I think so. is it full of diversity and slowly integrating that diversity into something bigger and better? like, yeah.

the olds ones, the ones that have been here since the 70's, the ones that sat in the same old pubs, drinking their same old stale beers, year after year, always complain about how much better other cities are/were, but did practically nothing to effect change or create an exciting identity for this city. the city presently is what they made it.

now it's finally changing. too bad so sad.

"Oh, Toronto! You're blowing all your money on condos and Rolls Royces! Shame of shames!

Yes, Jeff, the rich are getting richer, while the poor stay poor, (wasn't that a line from Les Mis?) and this is not a good thing. But affluence is something that happens to cities, successful ones at that. And we will deal with it just as other big cities do."

How? By pushing people who can't afford to drop 2 million on a condo out of the city. IMHO, the rich/developers are out of control in Toronto at this point in its history. Condo do not a world class city make, but it will make it look dumpy in 30 years as they all fall apart.

"At least our outer suburbs aren't regularly burned by mobs of disillusioned youth, like those in Paris."

For future articles, Jeremy, its better to not make such bald and flawed statements. The events you referred to in Paris are not regular or even occasional events, but events that occurred in at specific time around a particular set of circumstances. You would have still made your point if you had said that Toronto has never had a riot in the suburbs.

Jane said: "I don't think its Toronto's fault that the federal Conservatives don't help out...its the, um, the Conservatives fault!"

Well, it is Toronto's fault. Why on earth would the Conservatives, or really any party, spend money on a city who will always elect the same people?

For as horribly disjunct as Mr. Simpson's article is, he sort of gets it right. Toronto is failing, and miserably. It boggles the mind to see people saying that this is an exciting place to live in, all the while having people scared to do their job outside downtown for fear of getting shot in a gang war.

Really, though, Hans Lucas has it bang on. When was the last time there was a good Prime Minister/Premier/Mayor? One that actually had a backbone, and not possessed by political correctness? I can't think of one off hand. (And no, Trudeau doesn't count. He got us into this whole mess to begin with.)

The boomers complaining about how much Toronto has changed for the worse are the sames ones who were driving to Buffalo every weekend so they could drink late.

Cities change and evolve. They experience growing pains from time to time and that's what I think is happening in Toronto right now. Some things suck and should be improved, but there are also lots of exciting new things happening here. Toronto is growing into itself. Filling itself out. It's no longer the staid, no-fun, Anglican backwater the boomers like Jeffrey Simpson seem to long for.

"Well, it is Toronto's fault. Why on earth would the Conservatives, or really any party, spend money on a city who will always elect the same people?"

Maybe because it's the largest city in the largest metropolitan area in the country? Because it's the economic engine that drives the country?

Because it's the right thing to do?

All large cities in Canada are struggling, not just Toronto. We all need more money from the federal and provincial governments.

Most large urban areas tend to lean liberal. It's bad politics to alienate that many people. It only ensures that the best the Conservatives can ever hope for for the forseeable future is a minority government.

From the New York Times, Oct 5, 1982:

TORONTO'S ORDER AWES CITY DELEGATION

Donald R. Manes, the Borough President of Queens, found it ''unbelievable'' that there was no graffiti on subways and buildings. Ruth L. Sims, former First Selectman of Greenwich, Conn, found the streets ''extremely clean and neat,'' and Stanely Simon, the Bronx Borough President, found the whole downtown area just ''wonderful.''

Those reactions were typical of the 45 New York-area politicians, businessmen and planners who took a whirlwind tour of Toronto today. Their hosts were the government of Toronto, which wanted to show off its clean, quiet and orderly city, and the Regional Plan Association, a private group that has hopes of helping New York become a little more like Toronto.

''I was hoping that people would see, touch and smell the kind of things we've been talking about for years,'' said John Keith, president of the Plan Association, which has its headquarters in Manhattan. ''Planning is not just theory - here it is!''

The theme of the tour was that Toronto was a city where planning had successfully integrated the needs of residents, builders and workers in a way that was both pleasant and functional.

By all accounts, the visitors agreed that this city, home to some two million people, worked much better than anything they have known south of the border. They were impressed by subways that did not screech, by trim landscaping untouched by vandals and by streets so clean that the rare piece of litter looked out of place."

And while the visitors were certainly familiar with tall buildings, they were practically in awe of skyscrapers that were built around spacious, attractive plazas that left streets and sidewalks open and free of congestion.

'I'm impressed by everything,'' said Martin Gallent, vice chairman of the New York City Planning Commission. ''The streets are so clean,'' said Mrs. Sims. ''Everyone dresses so nicely; it's such a neat city.'' ''There must be slums somewhere,'' she added, and then quickly corrected herself by noting that slums were not called that anymore, especially in a place as fastidious as Toronto is. ''I mean areas in need of rehabilitation,'' she said.

Who can blame anyone for longing for those kinds of accolades? Everything is relative, and Toronto's standing has certainly slipped relative to its peers. Here is a specific TTC reference in a Times travel review from the same year:

And there's another feature which seems to have become a tourist attraction of sorts: the T.T.C., or Toronto Transportation Commission, which runs a network of streetcars -Toronto never got around to paving the tracks over, and has now found that streetcars are cheaper and more efficient than buses. The T.T.C. even runs a tour of the old city core in a 1920's trolley car, which you can catch outside the Royal York Hotel. Linked with the streetcars is the - yes, clean and safe - subway system, which was called the ''longest bathroom in the world'' when it was opened in the 1950's. Now some of the stations have responded to changing bathroom decor with murals of varying successfulness. One T.T.C. ticket and a knowledge of how to work the transfer system will get you almost anywhere you need to go.

The clean and functional stereotype of Toronto lingered for years, even making it into the late 1990s -- here is a quote from the Times in 1997:

This is a city of immigrants without slums, without graffiti and without gridlock, dynamic but seldom frenetic, a metropolis with clean air and healthy downtown neighborhoods, in short a city that works.

Simpson is simply pointing out that the city no longer stands out for these attributes. Maybe the city got worse, or more likely it simply stood still while everyone else caught up. After all, Toronto's streetcars were pretty amazing in 1982, but not much has changed since then. Meanwhile cities like Seattle have installed streetcar lines with sleek, accessible vehicles, Boston phased out tokens for smart cards, and Dallas has 88 miles of light rail. Manhattan has clean, vibrant waterfront parks. Chicago has dozens of new office buildings...

Hopefully these kinds of discussions will shake the populace of Toronto into giving the city the kind of support it needs to excel again. It has the potential.

I had to take exception at the "Health care costs too much" notion. We don't have the cheapest health care in the world, but we aren't doing too bad comparatively:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Canadian_health_care_in_comparison

Get your facts straight, JT. You sound like a lunatic blaming the city's financial problems on nurses' salaries. You'll find that if you know what you are talking about, you won't make an ass out of yourself as often.

I am so glad to be reading the real, constructive comments on here about Toronto: it shows that we actually care about this city and want to make it a better place for everyone.

Although I do think Toronto has stagnated in some areas (especially in the likes of transportation, other important infrastructure, etc.), it has also blossomed in many others (cultural/public institutions, downtown living/activity, civic pride, etc.).

Just think about it: Toronto's doing a mighty impressive job considering the financial straits it's currently found itself in. Now imagine what our city could be if we had the money and leadership to make this city known around the world for what a great place it is.

And about the Toronto vs. [insert other Canadian city here] debate: I think this is the most selfish and unfortunately Canadian trait of our citizens. Why can't people in Toronto be happy for Montreal or Vancouver or Calgary and vice versa?

All in all, great post Jeremy! I whole heartedly concur!

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[all the while having people scared to do their job outside downtown for fear of getting shot in a gang war.]

@ Trev -- Hyperbole, much?

I'd like to hear from JT again ... I found his comments about nurses especially baffling because his girlfriend is a nurse. Does she know about his views? Does she share them?

Gloria - I would guess that by now, it's JT's FORMER girlfriend. Compared with what they do and have to contend with, they're underpaid and way under-respected.

Toronto in the 70s was better than Toronto in the 50s, but only marginally so. Toronto planning and "design" in the 70s gave us some of the greatest mistakes that we're now stuck with. For those who are old (in mind and attitude) and white (ditto), Toronto in the 70s was safe and polite. To those people, today's Toronto is a scary place filled with all sorts of strange people who look and talk (heavens!) differently. But to the rest of us, today's Toronto is vibrant, exciting, challenging and, yes, problematic in many respects. But for me right now, it's the best that it's ever been (and I've lived here for over 50 years) - problems and all.

Jane/Finch dweller: General rule of thumb is that if you're waiting on Yonge St. to walk into a store on Boxing Day, the pre-eminent thought shouldn't be "Oh golly, I hope I don't get shot"

tripper: Other then the notion of Toronto being the engine that drives the country being false, we basically agree. A government not supporting a city because it doesn't vote for them SHOULDN'T happen, but it does. That being the case, what party is going to try to woo Torontonians, full well knowing that 19 Liberals and 3 New Democrats, or some slight variation there of, will be elected? ALL parties and ALL municipal leaders are guilty of this neglect. Any success this city has is in spite of the buffoons we elect at all levels of public office.

The point of the editorial is valid: Toronto has serious problems that are getting worse.

@Jeremy - let's not rest on our laurels too much. As uskyscraper points out - patting ourselves on the back for impressing americans in 1982 with our clean, functional city is lame. Let's talk about what needs fixing and how to do it.

"At least our outer suburbs aren't regularly burned by mobs of disillusioned youth, like those in Paris."

Not wanting to read through 30 comments, I gotta say that was a stupid thing to write man. You obviously don't have a clue what's going on there to say that Paris is "regularly" being burned. Is your tv stuck on Fox News or something?

"Toronto is a big city with big city problems, we can all agree. But no matter what Simpson says, it remains a great city, and I wouldn't rather live anywhere else."

Having been to TO half a dozen times before 9/11 (sadly not since), I'd rather live there too, than here in metro Detroit. :P Perhaps there is some perspective lost there?

Poor sad Toronto.

Once upon a time, a shining city on hill, today, sallow, pot marked, run almost entirely by real estate developers, their lawyers and heavily unionized bureaucrats ? most of whom don?t even live here. Abandoned by all levels of government and more importantly, by most of its own citizens. Torontonians, despised by the rest of country, have been orphaned; left to drown in a sea shootings ( that no one ever seems to witness ) , gangs, drugs, trash filled streets, pollution, mediocre architecture, endless gridlock, restaurants over-run by rats and virtually no urban planning. A City Hall, so utterly dysfunctional it harkens back to New York?s infamous Tammany Hall. A Provincial Government ? head quartered in Toronto ? that may as well be in White Horse. And a Federal Government ? who increasingly appear without purpose or direction -- only know Toronto as a plump cash cow to be gutted at will. As a dumping ground for thousands of legal and illegal immigrants, many of whom refuse to speak or learn English, obey the traffic laws, or leave their neighborhood ghetto?s, the atmosphere is tense, suspicious, indifferent and in variably hostile. The streets are awash with mentally ill or drugged addicted beggars who threaten you for cash at every turn. You think twice about going to the corner store most days, knowing you?ll encounter a crazy person who is ticking like a time bomb.

And now the bad news. Imagine a city, and a people so ruptured, they can?t even muster the political will to do something as simple and fundamental as clean the lake, to make it safe for swimming.

It?s no surprise Toronto rated 14 on the Stat?s Can list of ? most desirable places to live in Canada. ? Toronto really is the town that fun forgot.

I grew up in Toronto in the 60's and remember it as great experience. The city that I see now is dysfunctional and fractured.The fault lies with the people of Toronto,who like sheep to the slaughter keep electing fools who only have one agenda - themselves. Yes folks - the loony left rules in Toronto. Council support of the arts that no one goes to see, school boards that ruled by unions and groups lined up with their hands out. Toronto lurches from crisis to crisis without a plan - but the politicians seem to be able to come up with money for raises for themselves, and damn the taxpayer. Businesses are fleeing the city for the 905 - both east and west. Home owners do enjoy lower taxes in relation to what they own. The list goes on and on and on.........

'staid, waspy, whitebread? What town are you remembering?
I remember a town where you could stroll down Yonge St and drop into any number of clubs offering excellent live music from name groups. None exist now.
Rochdale was anything but staid. It's gone.
There was a profusion of great record stores, Sam's, Round Records, Wheels, all gone.
There were no gangs, no shootings, no awful Dundas Square, no rap, and no amalgamated city.
And good hash was five dollars a gram!

Park Slope and it's 'mommy mafia' is a bad example.
Toronto's biggest problem is that there are so many areas that are just left to rot. Still far too many boarded up, graffiti-and-grime covered buildings.

" remember a town where you could stroll down Yonge St and drop into any number of clubs offering excellent live music from name groups. None exist now. "

You're joking, right? There are a ton of music clubs in Toronto. The fact that they're not all on Yonge St. is bad? Toronto is more than just Yonge St.

born and raised here and i want out.

Well i am from Glasgow Scotland and am emigrating to Toronto in the summer.

All i gota say is i cant wait to get their !!!

The city is fantastic, clean, friendly and bustling with life.

Trust me if you want no-go areas, roving gangs, filthy streets and horrible people come to Glasgow.

Your city is in a league of its own :-)

I can't get over the nurse comment. What does JT do that he thinks $55 000 is an exorbitant starting salary? I'm not saying it's chump change, but for what nurses do, it's low. And if we pay our nurses so well, why do so many spend half the year working in the U.S.?

But then I don't put any creed into his other points either.

I recently moved to Toronto from Europe and I must admit I'm quite disappointed. The so-called diversity is more like a succession of closed communities who can't be bothered to speak English or even talk to one another. My (suburban) area is predominantly populated by Chinese and Koreans who seem to despise everybody else (racist immigrants, oh the irony), my neighbours wouln't even piss on me if I was on fire. I'm beginning to wonder what torontonians like in here. Seems things have changed a lot in the past 5 to 10 years, not for the better. Condo development gone crazy, isolated communities not participating in anything common, architectural ugliness everywhere and the feeling the City has sold its soul to corporate lawyers. My biggest gripe is the disaster area by the lake. Any sane city management would take advantage from being on a lake shore by making it a prime spot for cafes, terrasses and small shops, but no, it's all derelict industrial buildings, factories and the odd ugly-dirty walkway. No landscaping, nothing to make you appreciate the location, no place to chill out after work, zilch, nada.

As for the TTC... hum... what a joke. The subway may be clean-ish but it's fugly and slow. No dedicated bus lanes (no wonder they're always late), streetcars that look like they were built 40 years ago stuck in traffic, erratic service... COME ON! Europe might have its problems but at least we know how to run public transports there.

But it's not so bad in some aspects, especially for those who want to work and most people are polite, a nice change. But please, hire some landscape artists and decent architects to make the place less of an eyesore!

syntaxerr0r, I seem to find that the Europeans I've known who've visited Toronto are not really impressed and almost never make a second visit--if they do it's not because of the city. Isolated communities is an understatement, how about few people who actually see, know, or greet their neighbours or strangers. Nothing like European towns/villages where families spread out over kilometres have known each other for generations. I desperately miss the European niceties and courtesies. Here we probably have 75% of the courtesies that Europeans have and they are used about 5% as much (usually only when money is involved). Having cafes and terraces would be no point other than for tourists as the average person in Toronto is probably second only to the Japanese in living for work. A reasonable amount of work to go around and polite (uninvolved) people rank very low on my list; I don't particularly care for a high standard of living and ultra-low quality of life.

Gone are the days of McCallum, Davis, Crombie, and Robarts.

Where are the men (and women) of vision today?

toronto is a lame city. from its architecture, to its inhabitants, to its public transport. we have an awful rep across Canada. Sadly, the alberta-based government has ensured that toronto will remain a lame city. Toronto appears to be a place for people who dont give a shit aside from earning money, and withdrawing into their condos.

JT is correct about montreal - basically any self respecting city of TO size has great public space + architecture, and a nice public transport system to boot. (and the museum station IS ATROCIOUS!!!) Toronto needs to stop considering its public transport system as an isolated lost cause. They need to use it to leverage better development - (basically what montreal has done) Instead, The TTC is a separate, forgotten system, unincorporated into developments or the public realm. I blame backward-thinking councilors who dont have any balls to build this city WITH developers, not FOR them.

Although i do not live in Toronto 'yet' i honestly think that the city is fantastic.

Maybe it is because i live in Glasgow where your neighbor is more likely to have a party at 3Am then spew up on your door step than actually strike up a conversation.

but the city itself has so much going for it, many green spaces, millions of options when you are eating out and some of the friendliest customer service i have ever had.

Maybe you guys miss the 'Small Town' niceties but big cities just don't have that in my opinion. However i still think that it is a fantastic city and many of the recent comments only focus on the slight down points of living in a Big City not specifically Toronto !!

@ Ross A

toronto should be compared with other cities its size (especially those enlightened europeans and montrealers), not small towns. Once you do that, you will see its shortcomings, kitsch, lame design, poor transit etc.

@ shadow

That is my point, as far as large cities go Toronto is fantastic.

Incredibly multicultural, safe and friendly. I guess you end up disliking wherever you live but Toronto really is a gem of a city and anyone is lucky to live their.

i suppose toronto is nice. It has a robust economy. it is multicultural.

I just have huge issues with its public services - which will only worsen under the ablerta-based, suburban + upper-middle-class focussed government. sigh.

Also, the architecture is a continued letdown, failing to contribute or enhance the city.

There used to be a ride at Canada's Wonderland called the Wilderbeast. It was a rollercoaster on a wooden framed track, great ride, but it felt as if any second you were going to die. That's how I feel everytime I ride the MTL Metro. So whoever said their trains are better than T.O's is sadly mistaken. Also, they're about as wide as a hummer. Now, that's not a bad thing if it's a vehicle on the road, but not nearly wide enough for a train.

born and rasied here.
loved this city once ,can,t stand it now
bring back the 70s.
wasp.

It's still the cleanest subway I've ever been on...

You obviously haven't been on a lot of suways.