Zanta Deleted from Wikipedia
12/12/06, UPDATE!: Wikipedia mods have given Zanta a proper trial, and in their wisdom have concluded that he is worthy of wiki. And so he shall remain, Zanta. YES YES YES!!!
Zanta (geez, 46 comments?!?) may be a big part of Toronto counter-culture, but it seems that the Wiki-police are doubting his significance. As of today the former (and well-written) Wikipedia entry on Zanta has been removed and is in Wikipedia's "Deletion Review Queue", citing Zanta as not notable outside of the GTA and therefore not wiki-worthy.
The Wiki-Admin that chose to delete Zanta was Alkivar, a local DJ from a small town in Maine. Among Alkivar's arguments against Zanta's published notariety (The Toronto Star has published articles on him) - "It doesnt really count if its only the local/regional paper. The local newspaper in my town of residence (circulation around 35,000 copies) has had 12 stories in the past 10 years with my name in them, and 1 of those 12 was entirely about my business as a DJ... does that make me notable? I think you'll find just about everyone would agree thats a no." First - comparing a small town newspaper with 35,000 circulation to The Toronto Star (Canada's largest national newspaper) is ludicrous, and second - - bitter much?!
The debate is raging as other users are voicing counter-opinions on the Zanta deletion review log (a fun read, promise), where it has been countered that "the scope of Wikipedia is large enough to allow, for instance, notable statues, notable landmarks, and other such features of any city their own pages. Any tourist or torontonian encountering this loud, santa-hatted downtown fixture, clad in shorts in the dead of winter, would find him puzzling enough that an explanation from an encyclopedia would be of great value. People years from now encountering photographic evidence of this man would also appreciate it".
People with Wikipedia user profiles can voice their opinions on the deletion via the site's deletion review guidelines. It's a little bit comical that the wiki-bulldogs have sunk their teeth so deeply into this "controversy", but frankly I dig Zanta and hope the poor guy gets to stay.
(Photo above by Wordfreak. Think Zanta's not famous? 267 flickr photos disagree.)
Comments (75)
A crime and a shame. Zanta is one of the nicest friendliest crazy dudes I've ever seen roaming our fine streets. He's a bit wonky but harmless and usually leaves people smiling. We still love you Zanta!
So wait, they can have entries for every single sixth-tier superhero who ever graced a single page of a single comic book way the hell back in 1962, but they can't have one for Zanta? Perspective much?
Think what you may about Zanta, but deleting his Wikipedia entry is an outrage. I'm definitely hopping over to my Wiki account and speaking up, thanks for the heads up.
You have one Sameer? Awesome, show some Zanta support!
And really, this is less about Zanta in particular than it is about one guy thinking that, because something doesn't have significance in small town Maine, it must not be significant at all. I used to refer to Wikipedia often because of the great variety of esoteric entries it held.. so this is really dissapointing.
Looking at those pipes, I wouldn't wanna be the guy who deleted his Wiki entry. After, he knows who's been naughty, and likely doesn't care who's been nice.
this photo looks like it was taken during the pride parade, which has probably also been deleted from wiki as i hear alkivar is g-dfearing.
cheers
Here is another fact for the article ("stalking Cruz around Yorkville while trying to get in a photo.") and is further evidence of his notability.
Toronto Star. September 12, 2006, Section: Entertainment, Page C3.
"So close to the stars, yet so far away; Tiny Penelope transfixes crowd Going with the Flow nets no result" by Jen Gerson
I was on the outside, but not without company. Street personality Zanta regaled me with tales of stalking Cruz around Yorkville while trying to get in a photo. "You a reporter?" he asked. "I'm a f -ing superstar, you know?" I was trying hard not to know.
Zanta is a nobody, so the decision to remove him is a good one. His only "fame" is that he bugs the good folks of Toronto on the subway. However, that is at an end because he is banned (rightly so) from the subway for the next few years. The problem with the various write-ups online and in the newspapers is that they are "the world according to Zanta", a bipolar goof who should be in a mental hospital. There is no research to confirm the facts. We do not need crazy azzholes running around on the streets nor clogging valid websites with inaccurate crap. The best thing for everybody is we forget that he ever existed. He is a goof!
Thank you Nancy! Zanta is a public nuisance! The one time I saw him on Bloor St. he was flexing at passerby (including understandably startled and frightened women--Zanta, what a real man) and screaming "Fuck me!" over and over again.
What kind of person finds this sort of behaviour funny? Or would defend his 'right' to harrass pedestrians this way? I'm all in favour of individual liberty and free expression but this crosses the line.
Who cares if he's in Wikipedia or not?!
On a brighter note, I like the blog--just found it a few weeks ago.
Looks like the Zanta Wiki has been undeleted (as it should be). I see this as more of a wiki issue than a zanta one.
While I don't think it's fair or kind to call Zanta a "nobody", this situation was more about the principal than the person. I think no matter which Zanta-side you're on (pro or con - and both sides make completely valid arguments) the point here is that the Wikipedia entry was unfairly censored without editorial concensus. It appears to be getting that due process now and is moved to a probabtionary status pending deletion discussion. It remains to be seen if the wiki will be permanently reinstated, but if the flurry of opposition we saw yesterday is any indication, it probably will. I also found it interesting that one Wiki-editor brought up NYC's "Naked Cowboy" as an example of local celebrity - his wiki entry has never been questioned, which begs the question that Wikipedia might have a pro-U.S slant.
P.S. to Tina - sorry to hear that one post now makes us "sux" in your eyes. We'll strive to change that going forward.
Okay, Zanta has been undeleted, so that a full AfD vote can be done. Please, unless you are already a registered Wikipedian, /do not/ vote in this process, it will only hurt things if you do. Sorry, that's just the way things work, I can't change them.
Heres what you can do, if you want to help save the article:
- Give us a picture that you've taken of Zanta. Note, you'll have to release it to a "free license" like Creative Commons or GFDL. Contact nicholasmoreau@gmail.com if you'd be able to provide an image.
- Edit the article be better written, better sourced, etc. This always helps.
Nick
BTW, regarding the comment "Think Zanta's not famous? 267 flickr photos disagree." The number of Flickr photos are not necessarily relative to importance. By that standard the mayor of Brampton, Susan Fennell, is 1/53rd as important as Zanta, and Mississauga's Hazel McCallion is 1/7th as important.
Thank for the update Nicholas, duly noted. I'll have the main post updated to direct readers to your comment for proper ways to save the Zanta wiki.
And by "famous", I was not equating fame with "importance." Zanta may have more fame/notoriety than a city mayor, but their relative importance does not = fame. So while I understand the point of your examples, I think they're off the mark a bit.
Thanks for keeping us updated, it's appreciated. And I hope the attention & comments here help support our general view that Zanta is significant to Toronto.
Just for the record, the Star is Canada's largest daily paper, not Canada's largest national paper. It is most definitely *not* a national paper; Canada only has two, the Globe & Mail and the National Post.
It may be a bit premature to say so, but it doesn't look like there's any real or lasting threat to the Zanta article. User:Alkivar really screwed up by not giving due process, and his arguments weren't convincing either. The AfD debate should be wrapped up by the end of the week and I am expecting a positive outcome.
The great thing to come of this is that all the attention has already resulted in substantial improvements and expansions to the article by several concerned and responsible editors.
Everybody wins! yes yes yes
Who's ever heard of Susan Fennell outside of Brampton? Hurricane Hazel is another thing altogether. Respect! And the NYC Cowboy, like Zanta, is not altogether important, but certainly adds some fun to the city. People in TO always wanna know Zanta's story. He might be a lunatic, but I'll admit I've looked him up on Wiki a few times too.
Well, just recall that AfD is not a vote, feel free to make good arguments though. Although I think I might speedy close it keep, seeing the way things are going.
HEY ZANTA WHATS UP BUDDY!
WE SAW YOU DURING MY BANDS SHOW!
YOU WERE SMOKING A JOINT AND DOING UPSIDE DOWN PUSHUPS ON AN ELECTRIC STREET CAR!!!
YOU ARE A FUCKING LEGEND!!!
FUCK YOU ALL WHO DONT APPRECIATE THE GREATNESS OF ZANTA!!!!!!!!!!!
Great... smear Alkivar, why don't you. But otherwise a pretty funny piece... and looks like you will be getting your way. -Crz
"Who's ever heard of Susan Fennell outside of Brampton?"
Any fans of women's hockey sure have, seeing that she's the commissioner of the National Women's Hockey League, the first organization not exclusively for men to have their award permanently displayed in the Hockey Hall of Fame.
I've run into a few of the delete freaks on Wikipedia, people who brag on their user page about how many pages they have gotten deleted from the site. In my experience, they are bitter, narrow minded people who can't stand to see someone else have some success (as defined by appearing in Wikipedia). It's time for a revolt against them! Join Wikipedia and become an editor, and get involed in the delete discussions. Don't let the bullies win!
The Toronto Star is not a national newspaper.
With that being said, I agree. I live downtown, and until reading this, I had no idea the guy was called Zanta! I need this sort of information from wikipedia.
zanta just wants to do push=ups while makin werid noises...he isnt hurting anyone by doin that is he??
I'm from Tallahassee, and we had our own bipolar street enigma... He was an Egyptian doctor who believed that the first gulf war was the apocalypse, and disappeared from his successful Palm Beach practice and arrived in Tallahassee.
On the street.
Dressed like a fairy tale King (robe, crown, almost like the Burger King commercials, but less plastic). He would stand on corners, hooting at passing cars, handing out flyers and even custom bumperstickers (!) with messages like "Help Slay the Dragon of Racism" and "Love Cures All"
He became a widely known fixture around town, "King Love."
When he died, he had a front page article and a huge funeral.
A google search brings him up as the #2 hit for "King Love"
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/8438/kinglove.html
On a more serious note, I fail to understand how the small perceived number of interested parties should affect a Wikipedia article, unless there is a bandwidth/storage issue. In that case, I could see removing images, but there is no reason to delete articles, no matter how unimportant they seem.
Zanta is officially saved. The AfD is over, and the result was a resounding "keep".
Regarding Steve B.'s comment, we do have to establish notability, even though bandwidth is nearly limitless. Everything on Wikipedia must be referenced to legit sources.
If no one (ie media, prominent websites, etc) of any note has discussed you, and the only way we can verify "facts" is through MySpaces and blogs, that's when we back off, as there's quite a large possibility the information is unverifiable.
In a case like Zanta, there are many sources to verify the info with, thus, he's a keeper.
If u live/chill in toronto, u know zanta. hes very friendly, and makes the city a better place to live. undoubtedly the most famous character in toronto. its wiki's loss.
zanta's a legend in toronto and deserves a wikipedia page. HELL, those useless "models" that were voted off america's next top model have wikipedia pages.. pshh
I LOVE ZANTA
people think that he is crazy but they are just mistaken by him.
he is a friendly man who just wants to make friends he helps support many causes and he has made a difference around toronto and it is a shame for him to not be recognised.
zanta is a toronto legend and makes the city more exciting to be in.
he makes us smile and we adore him for it.
The only Thing that Zanta has done is made me smile everytime I've had a chance to bump into him..... And it's incredible how many people actualy know of Zanta,, not just in Toronto but surrounding GTA, I'm from Newmarket and I've talked to a number of people that have heard of Zanta...
Pffhh... even my school has a page on Wikipedia, and it's not relevent outside the GTA. Zanta is a LEGEND, and many people outside the GTA know of him.
Bring him back to Wiki!
LEAVE HIM ALONE....what do u get out of taking his wikipedia away??? grow up and leave zanta alone
Zanta is actually the best man you will ever know. He's such a nice guy.. if people could notice that instead of being negative and saying "oh zantas so crazy, stay away from him." I love how us teenagers love him, but a lot of adults hate him. You adults need to grow up a little and give him a chance. Zanta is a lot of people's hero, especially mine. I've had a lot of civilized conversations with him. HE'S NOT A BAD GUY... hes an amazing guy. And as for the Wiki situation, thats ridiculous taking it off. Zanta is what makes Toronto great!
YESYESYES!!!
whos with me?
Zanta makes Toronto a more interesting place to live. His freedom of movement must be reinstated immediately. If you take offence to him you have problems. YES YES YES!
Zanta is a major part of Toronto. The city would feel incomplete without him! Imagin walking arround down town and not looking over your shoulder ever once in a while just to see if you can spot him doing something crazy and entertaining. He's a really nice funny guy and everyone loves him!! Whoever decided to take Zanta out of wikipedia is a very sad person. What did Zanta ever do to deserve this??
He's special and should definitly be recognized in wikipedia....taking him out is an insult to Zanta and all of Toronto.
I am dissapointed that Wikipedia would come to the assumption that the man many view as a local hero is not worthy of a place in Wikipedia.
Toronto is not a small town in a rural area, this is the largest city in Canada, the second largest nation in the world, and Zanta might well be more recognizable to tourists from around the world and torontonians alike then the mayor of the city is.
I believe in Wikipedia's mission, to provide a free online encyclopedia by everyone available to everyone, however I find Wikipedia to be shooting itself in the foot with the removal of Zanta's part in the site.
I am hugely dissapointed in the city of Toronto and Wikipedia; I am a frequent user of Wikipedia, but I sure as hell won't be using it anymore, thats all I Know. Zanta is a HUGE part of Toronto, its not the same without him. It is cruel and unjust to punish him by not letting him just get his word out. Section 15(1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states: Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. Why is Zanta being punished for being friendly to every member of the public? Yes he is obnoxious, but this gives us no reason to ban him from the streets. So what is he ruines a shot that CTV is trying to film, hes a Canadian citizen and he desrves the right to keep spreading his word and making himself known. People say that there worried that he may hurt them? EXCUSE ME, the only type of person that would state this is a rich upper class old lady with no street smarts, or someone who is just scared because they don't know how to react when someone with huge self confidence comes up to them and starts talking to them. How can you say this about Zanta, im sure other people make you feel unsafe in toronto; for example homeless people? thugs?. Can you be aware of the fact that when you get rid of Zanta you are getting rid of a good thing. Toronto will never be the same. Please do not do this.
I LOVE YOU ZANTA!!
-alyssa jones
To repeat, Zanta has returned to Wikipedia. This whole story was caused by the errant actions of one of 1000 administrators.
This administrator was unaware that Zanta was well-known in Toronto, simply because the article did not state how infamous he was. If the article originally was written with how infamous he was, none of this would have happened.
Additionally, the deletion of the article on Zanta was not in any way related to David Zancai's performances as the character. Wikipedia doesn't make any judgement calls on the validity or merit of topics.
Alkivar must be a shitty DJ to only get mentioned once as a DJ in 10 years, in a small town no less.
I have updated the lead in line of this post to reflect Zanta's return to Wikipedia. We will also do a follow-up post soon to update readers properly.
Thank you, Nick, for your efforts on Zanta's (and Toronto's!) behalf. And thanks for your patience in dealing with comments to Wikipedia generated by this discussion - I think it's evident how important Zanta is to Toronto.
We'll quiet down now ;)
Zanta is very sick. This behavior must be treated not nurtured with public approval. His kids need their father back and it wont happen unless he gets the help he needs. The city of toronto should start holding a giant online intervention.
hey richard- dont even talk before you dont know
all zanta wants to do is make people laugh, which he is managing to do with many people. he isnt trying to freak people out, and he isnt crazy, hes just a bodybuiler/ entertainer with a story that obviously you arent educated about
Iam a person who has alot of repect for zanata and his story ,his political veiws and what he stand's 4 who he is and was and who he bacme,....which is a pretty amazing guy if u ask me heeling your self after a tradigy....I dont agree with ppl saying he's a menace .zanta is a real person and ppl that judge him are just rich stuck up pll that need to move to U.S.A AND ARE INsecure rats that need toget out of the city cause being a torotonyin is not to banish but toACCEPT ACCEPT . ZANAT HAS MY SUPPORT
Wow. Wiki actually put Zanta on a trial thing.. thats just insane because Zanta is an "Entertainment Icon" in Toronto. Zanta is completely harmless, hes just a street entertainer and the best one out there. I think people are just jealous because he is more in shape and can do more push up than anyone!!
WE SALUTE TO YOU ZANTAAAA!
zanta is friggen awesome he seems like a nice guy and i got a smile just by looking at the pictures.. so i think he deserves to be left on wiki
Nice to see the Wikipedia article undeleted. I don't see why he's banned from any parts of the city. He's obviously not hurting anyone. He's having fun and so are people around him. It's all in good fun and almost everyone appreciates the spontaniety of his antics. Everyone else needs to get a sense of humour!
this is zantas son nathan
my father as you know zanta told me to put a comment so whats up yall???
Zanta was on an episode Kenny vs. Spenny, a show that has gone on to international acclaim, which is just one more example of how much larger than "a local niche character" Zanta has become.
Hey Nathan - thanks for dropping by. Tell your dad that he has a lot of fans & support! Yes yes yes.
Whoever saYS ZANTA IS A NUCIENCE OR ANOYING IS WRONG think about it, there are many onther people who are accually perverted and saying fuck me and actual people who will use the muscles to take advantage of people, the only reason you old people are bitching is because there is a website where you can bitch,keep it you yourselvs
Serisouly ZAnta is awsome people evrywhere knbow who he is and hes a nice guy who will actully talk to and tell u about himself...plus u dont have to worry about him being some fucked up perv just looking for ass.....serisly ZANTA is a part of toronto culture and should be put back in WIKI
Zanta a fucking druggy which is FACT, go ahead love him all you want he ain't doing anything for you beside trying to make himself famous.
zanta has been on tv shows, other than just the news....he is a celebrity in tornto and many place around...all hail zanta
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