Fitness Clubs
Toronto BJJ
Toronto BJJ sits directly between Ossington and Bathurst at 813 Bloor Street West. The two storey blue and gold brick building opened its doors in 2006, and now instructs over 600 students. At 9000 square ft (3000 of which is pure mat space), it's the area's largest Jiu-Jitsu gym.
I had a difficult time reaching anyone through e-mail, but a phone call was answered by friendly staff. Trial lessons are by appointment only, and require at least 24 hours notice, so I booked an appointment for a BJJ Basics class.
For trial lessons, there's also Muay Thai or MMA (mixed martial arts), and women-only options exist for BJJ and Muay Thai. Once you sign up, submission wrestling and Judo become available.
The following Saturday, I arrive for my trial lesson and get handed a loaner gi (uniform). The friendly clerk gives me a tour.
Tournaments (and winning them) are common here, as evident by the trophies found in each room, Toronto BJJ recently won 7 medals at the 2011 IBJJF World Championships.
But competing isn't just for students: Head instructor Jorge Britto (a 2nd Degree BJJ Black Belt) is a World No-GI Masters Absolute champion, as well as 5x Rio State champion. Britto's teachers have included BJJ founder Helio Gracie, as well as Royler Gracie and Saulo Ribeiro.
The actual training area spans the entire second floor. Every inch is rubber coated, including the walls, and houses a caged corner for MMA training.
Class begins, the warm-up is just that: enough activity to get the blood flowing, but not so much that you're exhausted before class begins.
Being my first class, one of the senior students takes me and another prospective student aside, running us through some basic techniques. Rather than expect us to jump right in, we get one-on-one instruction. The guy teaching us has the tell-tale cauliflower ears of someone who has trained hard, and doesn't for a moment act like he'd rather be somewhere else.
Somewhere in this, Jorge Britto runs over and tries a new technique on our teacher. Satisfied, he returns to the class, using what he just tried as a lesson for the rest of the class.
This tells me something: The school houses champions, and knows what works, but is still adapting and learning new skills at any moment.
Watching his students, Jorge sits and drinks coffee. But, far from being passive observer, he repeatedly comments on students' technique and jumps up to physically correct them, shifting a shoulder or changing a hold to make it more effective.
After the class is over, I'm asked if I'd like to sign up for another. During my entire experience, I have never been hard-sold or pressured to sign up for anything beyond my trial.
My one gripe: no one will tell me class fees. Reception doesn't know, and the only way to find out is to book an appointment with staff. While they offer a 30 day free trial, as well as a 60 day money back guarantee, a little more transparency would be appreciated.
Writing by Dan Cosgrove. Photos by Jesse Milns
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I second the nice logo on the white gi.
They have a 239$ "membership fee" if you take their trial and don't sign up within the first week (they say it's a fee that's waved if you sign up in the first week).
If you sign up for 6 months, it's 849$... if your lucky they might throw in a free month.
Too expensive in my opinion :/
But here's the bad part: I had to pay a large fee up front. I injured myself a couple of weeks in and had to take some time off. I tried to come in to talk to someone about suspending my membership while I recovered as a good gesture. I was told the only person I could talk to about this was JOSH RAPPORT. He was never in and when I tried emailing him he completely ignored me. I know this because I had friends email him about joining and he responded to those immediately.
In my mind this is a terrible way to do business. If you can't do it just be honest and say so.
That being said, I wonder how this blog developed this ranking system to begin with. Did they have a bidding war to determine who took what place? Sounds suspect to me.
For a couple years now the procedure has been to email ryan@torontobjj.com with any injury time or membership freezes.
It's never talk to Josh. So that is suprising. If you were misinformed please email ryan@torontobjj.com and he will be happy to take care of this.
Since this was over a couple of years ago I was not misinformed and it was "talk to Josh." I'm mentioning it now because I noticed this posting on blogto.com and thought it was something that readers should know and be aware of if they should choose this gym.
In the future handle all of your clients with care. If I had had my emails (notice the plural, I sent more than one) answered then I would never have posted this publicly.
Good luck to everyone on finding the right gym.
Asking if they have gay-only classes is a legitimate question--especially considering they have women-only classes.
Or, do you think that gays don't belong here?
The striking program was decimated with the loss of Dida and Veio, and is an obvious afterthought after BJJ.
Dealing with the staff was difficult, there were some shady advertising tactics and the atmosphere was not as friendly as you would expect from a martial arts gym.
Lastly, it's run more like a traditional martial arts gym then a modern MMA gym.
The simple fact is this, TBJJ is the top ranked competition Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school in Ontario, that is a simple proven fact, the Muay Thai program is young and will grow, so in the spirit of true martial artists, or someone that is trying to be a martial artist, which is what all of you are claiming to be, then don't knock a gym just because things don't agree with what you want.
Dave clearly did his trial over 7 months ago and we have improoved a lot since then. In addition to the improvements listed above, we have reduced class sizes in BJJ, added more class times, and put more instructors on the floor per class.
As for not being "a modern MMA gym", hey we have helped prepare more than one fighter for UFC fighter for a title fight. If being traditional means not being a bunch of meatheads, making sure everyone feels welcome, and having our classes run smoothly, then hey that is us.
By modern MMA gym, I'm referring to gyms that have less of a divided approach to MMA. The traditional style is to break down components of the sport and train them in a divided fashion. An example of a modern MMA gym would be Tristar gym in Montreal, home of Georges St. Pierre.
I gave my honest experience, and now I'll give my honest recommendation. There are lots of MMA gyms in Toronto, and most offer free trials. Try visiting a few before you hand over your bank info. Ask lots of questions and find the right fit for you. Important details to ask about would be: class size, instructor qualifications, COST and TERM, current fighter activity. Toronto BJJ is not the only place to train MMA in Toronto, or even in the same neighborhood.
@Josh Where do your MT fighters compete? I Haven't seen any fighters on the local Toronto scene since I moved here. Could you link me some results?
Thanks,
Dave
Most of the people who train at Toronto BJJ are not looking to be the next UFC superstar, they want to learn these awesome arts that we offer including MMA, get exercise, and have fun. We are here to help our members reach their goals, not the other way around.
On a side note, I do not wish to argue, but the guys at Tristar train or trained individual skill sets in isolation and then mix them together with Firas. Almost nobody with any great success started out by just training MMA.
You can't say anything to change the experience I had at Toronto BJJ. So you can accept my feelings and continue to work hard at improving your gym. Maybe one day I'll want to spend upwards of $150 a month to train BJJ.
I'm happy where I'm at with 85$ a month for unlimited classes at a downtown location.
Anyway - everyone should decide by himself what works for him.
Biggest one was overcrowded classes, and I'm glad to see they added in more classes to perhaps remedy this problem. Just didnt feel like everyone got equal treatment. There were even blatant cases of favouritism during training.
The staff too wasn't as approachable, like mentioned earlier.
Looking to start training again, this time I convinced a few friends to join me as well, but not entirely sure if I will go back to TorontoBJJ. Like I said, really happy to see that more classes were added but I was not pleased with the administrative side of things either and from the sounds of things (not just here but on other forums) things aren't much better on that end.
On the positive side, every time we get a negative comment it causes us to investigate the claim to see if there may be any truth to it (even if the person posting has no idea). This keeps us on our toes, and helps us become more self aware. We will continue to strive to be the best we can be.
I get it, Blog TO ranked us #1 so now everyone with something to gain by badmouthing us is coming on here.
We get rid of bad apples, and do not give in to unreasonable requests so I guess some get their payback on here and other forums.
That is another reason why our students love training at Toronto BJJ, we take a stand on principles, so that our students do not have to put up with the shady element.
http://youtu.be/gIQssZpg1TE
Of course TBJJ is a business but every transition, every sweep, every submission you learn is earned with sweat (and a little blood... maybe.. haha). Every instructor in the gym takes what they do very seriously and prides themselves on the quality of instruction.
YES - if you are yacking away about the football game while rolling you will likely be told to shut up.
YES - if you don't make an effort to learn to count to 10 in Portuese after a reasonable amount of classes it will be pointed out to everyone.
YES - if you dont learn to tie your belt properly the same will likely happen.
YES – If you think you can stroll in late for class every time because you are a “paying customer” you won’t last long.
YES - they even make you do a warm-up that will likely make you feel nauseous at some point.
YES - you will be pushed to what you think is your limit then find out you have more - time and time again.
If any of this horrifies you or offends you it is my personal opinion that this place is not for you. Have some respect for what it means to practice martial arts.
Bottom line is: read reviews, then go in and find out for yourself. That’s what I did and when my 6 months were up I scheduled a meeting and re-signed for another 12 months.
oss
Did the first free trail class and i loved it.
Then after the class some guy approched me and wanted to go over the how the 30 free trial worked.
IT IS NOT A FREE 30 DAY TRIAL
IT IS 2 BJJ classes and 2 muay thai classes a week for 4 weeks. At certain times. They advertise as if it was do as much as you want for 30 days.
First let down!
Then i wanted to do 3 afternoon muay thai classes a week every other day . They would only give me two and an evening. I could not do evening.
Second let down! (Mind you im the one that gonna pay them)
Then due to my schedule i miss the last week they call me up and ask if i am still interested i say yes how much is the unlimited training for a year? (I was willing to pay whatever didnt care because i wanted to learn)
They wont tell me, they want to meet in person.(Dumb sales tactic)
3rd and final let down!
I was willing to buy. I was so angry i did not even want to deal with them anymore. My first thought was these people are idiots. They leave money on the table.
This tells me that they cannot win on price. So it is probally really expensive(But at the time i didnt care)
They try and put you in a submissive state to get you to make a buying descision. (Probaly had some dumb consultant try and teach them sales and marketing.)
Moral of the story is honesty is the best policy.
And when someone asks a question over the phone answer it.
Looks like U of T athetic center is getting my money. Its a shame but soon they will have mma classes if they dont already.
If you were serious about signing up you would have been willing to meet in person.
We were not dishonest with you. We are a martial arts academy and do not wish to be treated like a common commodity, we treat people with respect and expect the same.
It makes no sense to attempt to discuss membership options over the phone, as they can not be adequately explained in that format.
Most of us have been burned by health club sales pitches, incentives and contracts. Not being able to provide simple information immediately raises red flags.
That said, I know someone who trains there when he's in town and he has nothing but praise. Personally, I have no time for sales b.s.
I still believe in cash, I still believe in hand shakes and I'll keep holding out that there's people out there that feel the same way.
For the majority of potential students, training is one option that they can spend their free time and disposable income on. Like it or not, to the average potential customer, the service you offer is a "common commodity".
This is my first time training martial arts. I cannot speak for other posters but heres what I can say
Pros:
(1) Friendly instructors - always eager to help with a smile
(2) seniors are friendly and teach you during rolls make u feel welcome
(3) Great facility
(4) Excellent warm ups - I managed to get instructors attention despite class size. Sometimes they even took me to a side and explained things. No discrminiation for trial members or regular members - i certainly didnt feel that way.
(5) Wide , schedule of classes.
Cons:
(1) Price (I understand its a skill - I feel martial arts is like a university course - the price is what it is but still it was very expensive)
(2) No transparency in pricing (meeting in person to discuss membership is fine - but they didnt even give me a copy of what they showed me - the 3 options)
(3) I met with Luke , great guy, explained his history at BJJ, looked geniunely interested in what i wanted to achieve but his sales push turned me off. He said unless I signed up right away (which I would have if i have enough money in the bank) I would have to pay a registration fee. And that If I wanted to wait till friday (2 days away - 15th june 2012) that all the extra lessons, bonues features like free Gi might be taken away. This left a bad taste. I mean its not unreasonable to want a couple days to think. $970 for 7 months is what they said. The sales push is what turned me off. I hate being pushed and I work in sales so I recognised every tactic :).
Overall great club -
Just wish a little more transparency would do a great deal more to this awesome place. Martial arts is an honorable skill to learn - Please dont make your club like good life fitness or extreme fitness by focussing too much on the sales tactics.
I ll reccommend the club to all.
The price is higher than some places, but the quality of instruction is what separates them, the techniques, the pointers, the drills, and the sparring partners and facilities are why they charge so much. You are getting world class training if you want it.
they say they try to cater to everyone and I feel they do try, but this is a school that will make you WORK. dont expect to come here and do a roll break a sweat and go home. this is an old school brazilian style jiu jitsu gym and you will work hard.
And for the fellow who says the school is unwelcoming to beginners, try it out for a month and tell me at the end of the month if you feel it's unwelcoming. The level of coaching and feedback you get from the team is amazing.
All of the coaches are really high quality and I know whenever I train with anyone of them I'm going to sweat, have fun and learn.
For those people that complain about the price, let me put it to you this way: you aren't going to get top-notch clothing at a discount store. Conversely for BJJ: the gym is in a great subway-accessible location, with the best hours in the city to train. What other gym offers early morning classes with top-level brown belts, for instance?
Look at the most recent Ontario tournaments and you will see Toronto BJJ competitors winning a large portion of the trophies. That alone should tell you something.
So, if an employee/manager/owner of Toronto BJJ reads this - bad internet reviews will kill your business. Might not have in 2002, but it will in 2012. I'm also conscious of ppl venting if they've had a bad experience, and I don't let such things factor into my decision, but reading all the above statements I was able to sift through and draw (what I think to be) an accurate conclusion.
I would have been like Fry on Futurama "Shut up and take my money" had these reviews/comments carried a different tone. Let this be a lesson Toronto BJJ, you've lost a potential customer before he even stepped foot in the gym! Also, the spelling and grammar mistakes on your website don't help - makes you look unprofessional.
Gosh, I love technology.
Nothing else needs to be said.
These rankings are the only time I am aware of that a third party has gone in and checked out the academies in Toronto, and reported the findings. The ranking given to us is a reflection of that.
www.IBJJF.org is where you can go to see our results for the Toronto and Montreal Opens, as well as world championship results but note that we often represtn Ribeiro Jiu-Jitsu in these competitions.
There used to be a sense of honor among martial artists but it seems like, in North America anyway, that has deteriorated. In BJJ in Canada alone you can see the lack of moral fibre at the highest levels. Toronto BJJ has had several instructor sent to prison or deported because of illegal behaviour including former wrestling coach Ainsley Robinson who got busted in a coke ring.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/02/26/8536846-sun.html
They also had one of their instructors shot in the head right outside of the academy.
http://www.mmafighting.net/forum/showthread.php?37190-Andre-Dida-Shot-in-Head-in-Canada
Meccha MMA owner and BJJ black belt Mark Stables is being deported for being a high- ranking member of the Hells Angels.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/21/court-refuses-to-stay-former-hells-angels-members-deportation
On the East Coast, Titans MMA owner Rob Walker is being charged with drug trafficking.
http://topmmanews.com/2012/06/29/titan-mmas-rob-walker-charged-with-drug-trafficking/
It seems that the Eastern tradition of honor and budo are not being strongly accepted by Western practitioners. Or maybe martial arts academies are just magnates for bad seeds.
Speaking from experience, I've learned that you have to be very cautious when dealing with martial arts schools. They try to come across as respectable and friendly but secretly they are extremely manipulative.
As one can see from reading the links you posted none of this truly has anything to do with my academy.
This is slander plain and simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKi92QD8kI&;feature=share
How about you tell the truth and admit that Ainsley Robinson got busted for dealing coke and Andre "Dida" Amade got shot in the head both while they were employed as instructors at Toronto BJJ. Dida was actually shot while parked in a car right in front of the academy.
In my previous post I cited two other criminals involved in other high level martial arts academies in Canada. My point is that the entire industry is filled with sketchy instructors and owners. I've never met you personally but judging from the comments on this page, you certainly come off as being among the sketchy ones.
I would encourage anyone who wants to join any martial arts academy to be extremely careful. They are not pillars of integrity and they are not above using high pressure sales tactics to lock you into bad contracts.
Not only that but I've personally seen several instructors in different academies down right beat up on novice students.
The point I'm trying to make is for people to proceed with caution because these places tend to attract a higher than normal amount of unsavory people. It's a shame that Martial Arts in this country have deteriorated to such a low moral standard but it's true.
Ainsley did not deal drugs, his court transcripts speak for themselves on that matter. All of his involvement was in a jurisdiction outside of Toronto, and secretive, which is why I did not know about it.
Ainsley is not anyway associatd with us and is now with Evolucao.
You are taking a situation where someone was by all accounts a bystander, and not the intended target (ie the man from BC).
You appear to get all your facts from the internet so you must know that he was dismissed from the academy immediately following the incident. Yet you use this against my academy.
So why target the one academy that said it was unacceptable, instead of the others who let the Amado brothers in after it became clear that they may hang out with the wrong crowd?
Seriously.
Getting busted in a drug ring and getting shot in the head are extremely unlikely to happen to upstanding citizens. Both of these things happened to instructors employed at your academy. If you need an arrest and a bullet to the head to realize that some of your employees are shady, then you must be the most naive Brown Belt north of Curritba.
Dida wasn't just a sponsored athlete, he taught Mauy Thai at Toronto BJJ. Several of my friends took his classes. Your attempt to distort language here is pretty weak.
I made it clear that it wasn't just your Academy that was unsavoury. I identified Mark Stables as the owner of Mecha MMA.
I've heard second hand that several of your instructors have been arrested and that one of them was deported to Ireland. Because it was second hand information that I couldn't verify with a web link, I didn't bring it up. But I'm sure that you're response will be to deny, deny, deny just like you did (pretty lamely by the way) in response to Ainsley's arrest and Dida's shooting.
As I said before, it's not just your academy. A lot of martial arts schools are havens for thugs, it just comes with the territory these days.
However, shady instructors along with shady pricing, that's going overboard. The least you could do is show some clarity in your pricing. A couple of years ago you used to have your rates proudly listed on your website. That was good. Now, I can't get anyone to tell me rates
without waiting a month and then booking an appointment with some smarmy sales guy. That's bad.
I realize that you'll never admit to anything because you've got no integrity so again I urge anyone who is thinking about joining any martial arts school to please be careful. Ask around and be careful.
I was brought up to the top level of the building and into a office where they closed the door. The sales rep became slightly belligerent with me because I asked about the membership prices three times. "LOOK, as I have already told you, I don't know what the prices are," he told me. This leads me to belive the sales staff are either underqualified (Dont know the price of the service you are selling? i dont believe that.) OR are engaged in some questionable sales tactics (judging by this thread and others, that is what's going on here). I only asked the guy for the prices three times because he gave me the run-around the first couple times. When I ask a question, I want an answer, not a song and a dance. Don't insult my intelligence by answering questions with long and diluted responses and get upset when you get called on it.
Train somewhere else. This place has serious issues with their pricing. The tone at the top of TBJJ is one that preaches respect and hard-work but it seems that their actions heavily contradict this. Other schools are a lot more up front and will treat you with the respect that any paying customer deserves. Josh has a bad rep in the BJJ community too based on everyone I've talked to. BUYER BEWARE YOUVE BEEN WARNED.
I am just pointing out IF what you said is true then, our actions are consistent with not tolerating that kind of stuff.
I am pointing out that Dida was not an instructor at the time of the incident because that is a fact.
It is ridiculous to say that a victim of a crime is some how guilty of something or it would not have happneed to them. Would that be your stance on rape too?
Please note that both Dida and his brother passed criminal background checks to get into Canada as did John Sheil.
With regards to Ainsley, he was an instrdcutor, he did get arrested, I don't deny it. My point is that his activities had nothing to do with the club, and occurred far away from it. We had no knoweldge of his activities, as everything was kept out of view far away form us.
Everyone else passed criminal background checks prior to instructing at the academy. Out of those only John Sheil ended up in trouble with the law, and only after he was no longer working atthe academy.
So in the end you only have two examples Ainsley and John. But you try to make it sound like it is rampant ath the academy.
Occasionally we get people coming in without appointments. And they insist on discussing pricing, and are rude. In those situations staff may take them aside and explain to them how things work. If that staff member does not know the pricing, then they will also point that out. sounds like Mataleon was one of those.
I make no appolgies for running programs for At Risk Youth, having great instructors, tons of happy members, and the most successful BJJ competition team in the country.
Unfortunately, in this day and age it is easy to mistake people's uneducated statements for evidence of something being true.
We do not pay lip service to discipline and structure.
A lot of places claim to be the best but we back it up with tangible results.
We do not pay lip serivice to community service, and run free programs for At Risk Youth, and provide mentorship. We also raise food doantions for the Daily Bread Food Bank, over 500KG at our Annual event this year.
We claim to be a team and a family and back it up, by helping our teamates when in need whether its a place to stay, or a full on fundraiser for medical treatments not covered by OHIP.
We believe Jiu-Jitsu is for everyone and have Women's classes and Aaron Broverman to proove it.
We beleive martial arts can help not only with fitness and self defense, but also personal improvement and even transformation. And we have tons of members who are living proof. Thomas Beach and Kerry Marine just to name a couple.
Integrity does not come from what people say about you it comes form what you do. At Toronto BJJ we get it done.
In one post you defend Ainsley by saying that the court records show that he wasn't dealing drugs. Then in another post you claim that his "activities" happened away from the gym where you couldn't see. Can you settle on a story please.
And by the way, a simple google search shows that in 2005 he was thrown off the Canadian olympic wrestling team after testing positive for cocaine. Even the simplest background check would have shown this. Either you're incompetent for not knowing this or you knew about it and figured it was still a good idea to hire a guy who threw away an olympic spot because he couldn't stop snorting coke. Seems like a high character guy to me.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/11/25/cocaine_wrestler051125.html
You also claim that John Sheil got in trouble with the law "after he was no longer working at the academy." That's funny because I asked around and one of my friends remembers the day John got arrested because the Muay Thai class that day had no instructor because John got arrest the night before. A couple of the students had to teach the class in his place. You are blatantly lying here.
As for the shooting. I dug a little further and noticed that you failed to mention that the shooters were members of Toronto BJJ, see link:
http://gleanernews.ca/index.php/2010/11/23/shootings-shock-community-police-say-recent-violence-mostly-targeted/#.UMu6QZPjkR8
So lets piece this together because I'm confused:
1. The shooters were members of Toronto BJJ.
2. One of the "victims" was an instructor/sponsored fighter of Toronto BJJ.
3. The shooting occurred right across the street from Toronto BJJ.
Well it seems pretty clear to me that this incident had absolutely nothing to do with Toronto BJJ. Nothing at all. There's like no connection what so ever.
In conclusion:
You're waffling on the whole Ainsley situation. Also, I asked around and found out that he liked to beat up on students.
You lied about John Sheil. He was employed at Toronto BJJ when he got arrested. And funnily enough I was told that he also liked to beat up on students.
You claimed that the shooting had nothing to do with your academy. I'm going to let people decide for themselves on that one...
All of the explanations that you give for having a secretive pricing policy are bullshit. You are using a sale tactic to try to build the commitment level of the buyer over the course of a month and then when when the price is finally revealed, they have to have an uncomfortable meeting with a sales guy who is using social pressure to close the deal. He tells them that he can give them a discount but only if they sign up right now. Your price policy is a sales tactic. To give any other explanation is complete bullshit and you know it.
In this comment section, you've told some outright lies, told some half truths, intentionally left out some important facts, and propped up your at risk program like some shield that protects you against any and all immoral and unsavoury activity that is associated with your academy.
To be honest I'm not that mad about the criminal activities because I've found that a lot of academies have sketchy instructors and students. It comes with the territory these days. I'm pissed off at your shady attitude. The whole world is filled with con artists/used car salesmen/politicians who even when they're telling the truth are still kind of lying. Either by leaving out information or twisting language around. But, you are supposed to be a Martial Artist. You're supposed to be above that bullshit. You're supposed to be someone with integrity. Someone who tells the whole truth and has high moral fibre. You are none of these things. You're just a used car salesman with a brown belt.
How's that for a good argument.
Your friends are mistaken. I am Pretty sure Eman and Kris were handling the Thai classes when John was arrested. Your friends have foggy memories.
But lets go to your intentional lie omn point #1. Please read the internet articles you site.
Point #1 There was one shooter and the shooter did not come from Toronto BJJ.
Point#2 Correct at the time he was not an instructor and was preparing for a K-1 fight.
Point#3 Correct.
This incident had to do with an individual who happened to train with us at the time beign a target. Dida was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As for Ainsley he was not a drug user to anyones knowledge even the science on his positive test indicated it was due to exposure through handling not injection or ingestion.
You have a need to be able categorize me as shady or dishonest. Because you went in with a preconceived notion, and now you need to hold on to it.
I am not trying to insult your intelligence, but logic dictates that the truth in these matters are a yes or no proposition, was Dida an instructor on October 20th 201O? No. That is 100% true. It is not misleading. it is not a half truth.
Truth is a yes or no proposition.
I answered the questions truthfully based on my knowledge and recollection.
The At Risk youth program shows that we try to help people, even those who need a second or third chance. You would probably say that the youth are unsavory because some have been involved in streetlife and all that it entails. But you would not recognize others because of the changes and transformation.
Martial arts academies are not God, we do not get to prejudge people before they do something wrong. We can only work from there.
I made the hard choices and I did what was right for the safety of the staff and students. I spoke up at the neighborhood meeting when even the police were not divulging much info on what took place. I had grown men who had tears in their eyes asking to be reassured that their kids would be safe.
To have this thrown in my face as evidence of something wrong with me or the academy is unacceptable. It is a real low blow.
As a person of real character, something the martial arts has reinforced in me, I stand up for people even if they are unpopular. That is why I defended Ainsley from the slander BJJ or BS attempted to place on him, even though Ainsley is with another academy now. Ainsley was invlolved in something bad and did his time. What he did was bad enough no one should lie about it or distort it.
One point of agreement with BJJ or BS, for different reasons, people probably should not train with people like the Amado brothers. Of course I would be more concerned about the academies that opened their arms to them after the October 2010 incident, then the academy that stood up to them and dismissed them.
Just in case BJJ or BS is actually a decent person, just wrong headed and unfair here.
Try and understand this about the 2010 incident, it is deeply personal, I almost walked with Mauricio across the street that day just before the shooting.
Took me a year to admit to myself that my decision to not cross the street may have saved my life, and it was just luck not intuition that kept me safe.
So in my opinion it could have happened to anyone it just happenned to be Dida.
One of the staff members ran after the gunman unarmed, to protect everyone. He could have been hurt, and he is not the least bit unsavory, a hero really.
I've made my points and you have done your best to avoid and deny and cover up. It's only after you've been cornered that you fess up to anything. I didn't even look into your academy thoroughly. I just asked a few people and did a google search and look at everything that popped up. Everything about you screams bad news.
In every single post that you've written you come off sounding like a two faced con artist. That last post is so shamelessly self congratulatory that it's laughable. The more you write the worse you sound. Shady, shady , shady.
To this day I still have no idea what the hell they're thinking at Toronto BJJ. If I had been able to sign up then and there, I would have.
Assuming this is a true story. Two points, of course we wanted you too join, but clearly no one was available who could assist you at that time. Had you come in for your scheduled appointment or re-scheduled to a time you could make it would have been a different story.
By your own account you were pretty rude. Knowing you need an appointment, you come in at a different time. Then instead of being reasonable and rescheduling,you get upset when no one is available to help you, and get confused because you saw me at one point and figure that even though you are busy guy, no one else has anything going on but you. And that regardless of what jobs people may hold at the academy we should instantly be able to shift over to accomadate you.
Is anyone still considering training here???
It is unfortunate that some have a problem with our policies, to the point that they do not sign up. We can not win them all.
The proof that most of these negative comments are way of base is the hundreds of members who happily sign up every year and then renew.
We offer quality far beyond what the others do so we do not compete on price. Also several academies charge more than we do like Rev and Elliot's. But that does not make them better.
Members at Toronto BJJ achieve a lot more than those at other academies, and I am not talking about competition results at all.
How much do you charge? And how much do Rev and Elliot's charge?
Let the tap dancing begin...
Real deal spot.For sure the negative comments show a high level jealousy from or some problematic beginners trying to find out some excuse to justify why not choose TBJJ . Because if you really want to learn the martial art this is the #1 place to go.
There is always another options and opinions , but reading the reviews on other gyms it's clear to see that everyone who came here to throw some negative comment has or had some problem with the owner .
anyways there is always a Tim Horton across every Starbucks .
Make your choice and be happy
I am not surprised that some former students who were problematic do night appreciate my no nonsense approach. We give problematic people a chance to change their ways, but all the good people should not suffer because some adult people are how should I put this...find it difficult to be reasonable and decent.
Take your own comment about my "belly". The comment is unnecessary for you to make your point. Name calling is immature.
As for Dida, people want to make a somewhat complex situation appear simple. Given that I almost crossed the street, I realize anyone including myself who did not know the nature of the BC man's history and economic activities could have benn in harms way. So that applies to Dida. At the time of the incident in 2010 Dida was not an employee but a sponsored athlete. He made poor choices, and showed a lack of understanding for just how serious the incident was. I have absolute discretion in whom I sponsor end of story.
What you are saying is untrue and shows a lack of knowledge about Toronto BJJ memberships.
But lets imagine you were correct (you are not) then we would have to look at the competition results and say wow not only does Toronto BJJ out perform every other local academy by up to 18X in competition but they do it training way fewer hours.
So that would even further the claim.
I ma not saying Toronto BJJ is the best place for every individual person to train BJJ in this great city. What i am saying is that on objective measures it is not close.
We have a higher percentage of students who stay motivated and have fun. That leads to us having more students.
Combine the above with superior knowledge, training methodology, structure, and instruction. That accounts for the superior competition results, and level of the average student.
The people who enjoy Toronto BJJ, like to exercise, like the martial arts we offer, appreciate good people, and enjoy getting good.
I remember when I had mediocre BJJ it is not nearly as enjoyable as having amazing BJJ.
Cheers!!!
I was at Toronto BJJ for a month in the summer of 2012.
The facilities were great and I have immense respect for Prof. Jorge Britto, Prof. Eduardo, and all the students who were so friendly and helpful.
I didnt even ask about pricing since I understood maybe these were your rules and this is how your school operated.
However when it finally came time to sign up...and I was willing to sign up. Comments and the pressure put on me by Luke was just tremendous. I work in a corporate environment and I recognised the tactics at once and it was a huge turn off.
The pricing was basically $989 for 6 months and they wanted me to sign a contract right then and there.
I have a friend who teaches "Okinawan Karate" in Russia, and he was shocked at the approach. I think there are 2 sides to Toronto BJJ- inside the dojo and outside.
I wish someday prof. Jorge especially teaches in another school so he could input his discipline and good qualities.
I follow his career with great interest. Good luck to him.
I have to say Toronto BjJ is a great gym. I just cant afford that kind of money.Only thing I didnt like about the gym was the lack of transparency ....pricing..secrecy..pressure tactics and well.....you josh. (sorry)
@ Josh.. if those were the 2012 prices, then what are the 2013 prices? Are the even higher? I bet they are... lol Whats with the mystery? If I could in 2012 write the 2012 prices and I am not even a student or staff member there, surely you can enlighten us, since you are the owner? Oh, yeah, you like to keep us sheeple in the dark :( Thanks Josh.
The problem is you use these tactics often on people who are easily pressured and manipulated.
A lot of people getting into martial arts for the first time are doing it to become empowered physically and emotionally but typically aren't there yet. So to run an individual through this gauntlet of sales tactics is at its very core a direct contradiction to the stated "values" of TBJJ.
The mark of a good hustler is one who gets what he wants while keeping everyone he is getting it from happy.
The mark of a crook is one who tricks people into getting what he wants and then makes no apologies when his bullshit is revealed.
Furthermore the comment about your belly is not immature.
It is actually a reasonable statement to make.
You are the owner of a martial arts club that preaches physical fitness, integrity and good health.
You are gigantic, probably close to 400 pounds.
Practice what you preach homie and get into shape.
Your at risk youth program is only set up for free publicity and to find fighters who will make you money one day.
A real man does that shit without calling attention to it.
How about taking these "at risk" youth and provide them with free memberships or classes without defining them as "at risk youth". Don't even get me started about the creepy and unethical evangelical Christian vibe that flows throughout the club.
You are the definition of a scum bag and you embody everything I hate about the north american "its just business" attitude.
Just because it is legal does not make it right.
Maybe you and Elliot should get together and compare notes to see if you can rip off the bjj community for any more money.
The price at TBJJ has gone up but the variety has gone down. I wish they had a decent Striking program with a self defence class which most good schools do all over the world.
Wow.. I went to TBJJ years ago when it was honestly the best martial arts gym in the province. They had a great Muay Thai, Judo, wrestling and MMA there (they even had a weight set there, too). The price was about maybe like
As my time at TBJJ was coming to a close and I was coming to terms with the fact that I could no longer give my hard earned money to such a shady business man, then came the nail in the coffin. They started with those "closed door new membership meetings" More than once, I had a conversation with someone who has just come out of one of those and some things they've said to me is that they felt "bullied" and "peer pressured" into making decisions and signing contracts.
I don't want to make a novel out of this post, so I'm going to fire off a couple more reasons why I left and why I feel there is better places to train in the GTA.
1) Favoritism - Josh and a few instructors give 85-90% of their time and dedication to the elite students. About 50% of the classes I've attended at TBJJ (which would probably be in the hundreds easily) the instructors spent in the "instructor area" of the mat, talking, laughing and making jokes at the expense of the worse students.
2) Slander - Without fail, when an instructor or high level student would leave (or get fired or whatever) Josh would come in hard with the trash talk RIGHT away. "He was doing drugs" "We kicked him out for being immoral" "He drugged a girls drink" the list goes on and on...
Basically, anyone who doesn't stay at TBJJ is a: traitor, drug addict, gangster, on steroids, predator or evil villain plotting to take over the world.
3) Josh's attitude - Obviously this topic has been discussed plenty of times throughout this thread already, but I feel the need to add my two cents. 99.99999% of the students that have left TBJJ that I have spoken to left for one reason; JOSH. I've spoken to 10+ gym owners at tournaments that have had run ins with Josh where he bad mouthed their gyms or their instructors and he's cowered and apologized.
4) Religious Undertones - The instructors at TBJJ are VERY VERY VERY Christian oriented. Many people are uncomfortable with this but cannot say anything because the head instructor is the most hardcore of them all. I'm fine with whatever religion you subscribe to, it just is unnecessary when every other word is Jesus.
5) Membership/Money/Pricing - I could write a novel on this one, but to be up front; TBJJ steals money. They took double withdraws out of my account and many other friends on more than one occasion. Also, cancelling my membership took 6 months (all of which I was charged for and NEVER reimbursed). Josh has now begun to make other members that started way back when it was $85.00 a month, pay 100% more ($160ish a month)
In conclusion, there are some awesome people at TBJJ. Josh is not one of them. You WILL learn good fundamentals and skills at TBJJ, but there is a good chance you will also be a victim of shady business tactics and neglect. If you are going to train at TBJJ I offer you one tip; Make sure you're a top ranked competitor, because you'll get the royal treatment from Josh and the staff. You can start fights in Muay Thai class and swear and complain and tell refs to go fuck themselves at tournaments, as long as you're good at BJJ Josh will continue to cart you around the world to compete, but the second you decide to make something of yourself and move on to another school where you can hone your skills to become a professional MMA fighter or teach at another school, you're a drug abusing, steroid using, woman beating traitor that was kicked out because your morals did not reach the high standards that is Toronto BJJ.
It is not my job to be popular. It is my job to make sure that the academy offers great services to the members.
1) Maybe you are paranoid or just making this up.
2) Slander only really happens if what is being said is untrue. You are guilty of slander here. Also we have plenty of former instructors who moved on to the next phase in their lives , who we are on good terms with. Some even still train regularly.
3) This is something that I can only say that people who have vested interests in other places have run out of plausible reasons as to why Toronto BJJ is not the place to be. So they try this, and if enough anonymous posters repeat it, people will think it is true.
4) Hey it is no secret that Jorge is Christian, and it is also no secret that I am not. We have devout Muslim members. Their are a lot of atheists at the academy too. So please stop making stuff up.
5) Without being aware of your alleged specific circumstance I can not comment on that. I can only say that as for the last part of it that is patently untrue.
Your conclusion is false. Their are specific examples that totally contradict what you are saying.
I get that you are upset as you probably are friends with people that do all the bad things you just listed at the end of your rant. Hey your instructor (or friends instructor), is in jail for a reason.
2)
The kick boxing is a real class, we are now under the guidance of Henry Hooft the striking coach of many of today's top MMA fighters, aqnd his righthand man Jorge Blanco. They have a system thaqt is dutch style not Thai, hence the name change. Our everyday instructor is Kerry Marine.
Lets revisit;
1) It's a well known fact you treat your competition team like royalty, and many other members aren't given any thought in your mind. You only help people who can help you. Don't bring up your "At Risk Youth" program either. You only help those kids so you can tell people you do. Someone who was doing it out of the goodness of their heart wouldn't need to make sure everyone knew he was doing something good.
2)I've personally sat at TBJJ and listened to you talk nonsense about great instructors and great people. You bad mouth anyone who doesn't agree with you and think you're some sort of marketing genius. You attended Lloyd Irvin's seminar then used his business techniques THEN went on to talk about how hes an awful person and even KICKED out one of your members for training with him.
Evidence praising Lloyd Irvin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-gcvFmgLgs
3)No. Not even close.
There's a reason you're disliked by almost every other gym owner in the city. It's because you're a condescending shit talking jack ass. You wouldn't let your students compete in the past in OJA events because you had a beef with Omar and Fernando. You were mad that their tournaments were and are run better than anything TBJJ could muster. Tell me I'm wrong Josh, tell me that everyone loves you. Or just tell your self, either way, you're fooling no one.
4)I did not say anything about TBJJ not having many different people from many different religions, there's nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, talking about Jesus during the time I PAY YOU to teach me Jiu Jitsu is unethical. I'm not there for a bible lesson, I'm there to learn to defend myself. Spending 5-10 minutes talking about Jesus and how he's saved your life is not only unpractical for me, but its disrespectful to the other students in the class that may have other religious beliefs.
5) You already know what I said was true. You throw new members in a closed room with Luke and pressure them into signing a contract thats WAY overblown. You HAVE increased prices 100%+ in the past year; don't think I didn't notice you not deny that.
You said I contradicted myself, please provide examples of when I did that in my post. How is it that a gym can so constantly have an issue with double dipping into peoples BANK ACCOUNTS? Thanks for addressing that in your horrid rebuttal.
:)
I hope considering members that see this and realize that every time someone has brought up an argument against Josh about pricing, attitude or general honesty he has avoided to answer at all costs. This is the type of person you'll be giving your money to. I'll include links to several other gyms in Toronto that aren't owned by someone trying to STEAL from your bank account.
Xtreme Couture
Salvosa BJJ
matadormma
Evolucao Thai
Mecha MMA
Rev MMA
Action Reaction MMA
Kerry Marine is a good muay thai practitioner and how are you going to suddenly ask him to teach a style that is not natural to him or you just dont care about these technical details?
Dutch style is boxing heavy and axe kicks and people such as Peter Aerts competed and trained in Muay thai, I think you are just trying to fool people by saying you have introduced a new style.
Let me ask you a question - You have signed up people advertising Muay thai and MMA previously and now when they have paid you have changed and cancelled some of the classes and now have completely changed it from Muay thai to Kick boxing ( cardio?).Do you plan on compensating the gym members? Did you even ask these paying members who make your gym economically viable what their opinion was ?
. What are you planning next ? Ask Jorge to teach Japanese Jiu Jitsu instead of BJJ just cos you had en epiphany ??
Also, Chris Sit is still advertised as an instructor at your gym? He doesnt teach anymore !
I am begining to think all the negative comments made by people have some truth to it. There are other very successful martial arts gym in Toronto, none other has had these many negative comments. If you were a smart person you would know that you need to change somethings about the gym to make it more desireable.
Hooft is recognized as one of the top stand up coaches in MMA and kickboxing today. We feel we are in the process of slowly but surely taking our Kick Boxing program to a whole new level.
As for MMA, those with pro aspirations have always trained off hours its no secret.
We no longer have beginner MMA classes.
As for consultation with members, we do that, but we are leaders in the field too. Take the MMA classes for the general public we opened those in 2004, pre TUF.
Are there members who specifically paid for MMA classes? I am not aware of any, but there might be.
We now have 6 additional BJJ classes per week.
As for the crazy accusations, take it with a grain of salt, hundreds of happy students, versus the 5 people posting under 16 different handles here. A lot of lies or broken telephone info in their rants. I do not feel like dignifying the absurd by responding to it.
Even though your tone was not respectful, you raised some fair questions so I responded to it.
Apparently I know too much so we'll just write off my comments.
I can only hope that someday, all the nice/good people that make TBJJ a good school, move on from you.
Instructors like Nacho, Ryan, DuDu, Kerry, Bodrug, Jorge, Donald and Mikey are the only reason TBJJ is bearable. Unfortunately, you're the boss at TBJJ which kind of sucks because you force (in my opinion) good people into your shady business techniques. I will point out that, throughout my time at TBJJ, I never once had to deal with any of those instructors talking badly on other academies. You on the other hand, are either insecure or naive. Nobody wants to hear your opinions anymore, Josh.
When I joined TBJJ 3 years ago you had your prices posted on your website with a giant font saying something along the lines of "lowest prices in Toronto!" When I came in for a trial, Donald told me the prices at the front desk, walked me through the building and told me to sign up whenever I'm ready.
Your head has grown much too big from those days to now. I don't know if its because instructors are asking for more money or you're greedy or Saulo has raised the price for being an association school, but whatever it is, you should fix it.
And finally, just to shine some truth on what you're saying...
You do not, and never have consulted members before making a decision like removing a marital art. You didn't consult any members when you took out several Muay Thai classes to add more BJJ. You didn't consult members when you got rid of MMA classes either.
I urge people looking into join TBJJ and reading through this page to make sure you tread carefully. Don't let TBJJ intimidate you into this "JOIN NOW or else you'll miss out on a FANTASTIC DEAL" in your "private consultation"
Cheers !!!
None of them like you, they call you all sorts of names. I remember one instance where you were having a private with Jorge and I was listening to several instructors crack some "high level" jokes at your expense.
You can pretend people respect you, and your Mc Brown Belt, but you're only fooling yourself.
What I posted in my last comment:
"Instructors like Nacho, Ryan, DuDu, Kerry, Bodrug, Jorge, Donald and Mikey are the only reason TBJJ is bearable. Unfortunately, you're the boss at TBJJ which kind of sucks because you force (in my opinion) good people into your shady business techniques."
No where did I say "all the people who work at TBJJ are amazing" or that "the students are great."
I said the instructors are (in my opinion) nice people.
Don't put words in my mouth.
AND ONCE AGAIN, you've ignored my comments about how you removed several Muay Thai classes and MMA classes without consulting any of your members. You ignored my comments about bringing new perspective members into a room and forcing them into signing a contract with your "Sign now or the price will go up!" bullshit.
You're a scam artist, you're scum and you're everything that's wrong with BJJ in Canada.
....Also, what ever happened to your friendship with Rafael Lovato? :)
Odd how you were friends with such a nice guy and just like that he doesn't want to come to your academy anymore..
Why don't you fill in everyone on how you tried the same sob story on Rafael about Mauricio?
How about the things you said about Lovato's wife?
Tsk tsk Joshy boy, you should quit while you're ahead.
The only field you are a leader in is food consumption.
Good on you for all you've accomplished with TBJJ, but I and many other people would respect you more if you were more honest and up front. Cut the shady stuff and get back to real BJJ.
Take it easy.
Muay Thai/Kickboxing students, if you want to learn good orthodox striking go to TKMT, REV MMA Krudar or Siamno1.
Lets just compare the MT to the BJJ classes at your gym just for the sake of class structure. After a warm up, good 10-20 minutes are spent on technique and the instructor goes to each student and corrects them if they are doing this wrong and then the rolling follows. Compared to BJJ does the instructor follow the same regimen?I dont think so.
We can also compare the MT classes to MT @KRudar or other traditional MT gyms or even what Mauricio used to teach at your gym. I think the level has gone down and what is going at the gym from what i hear is cardio at best and not close to a striking class where you learn to shadow box , learn about going in and out of range , counters and defence and the most most important attack.
Any person can come in say throw 10 kicks, 10 punches , do burpees or pushups btw them but I think only a seasoned muay thai practitioner can show people the moves or correct them. Have you considered that people might injure their knees if they dont throw the kick while pivoting on the ball of their feet? Its just a small example of what can go wrong when you dont have professionals teaching.
You may have done a great job in promotiong BJJ but for MT i feel there is a certain lack of interest from your side and it will only keep the students away from your gym who want to pay equal attention to MT as they want to pay to BJJ.
I will have to agree with former student on you consulting the members before taking out the classes. Didnt you shut down the school for many days during 2010 for repairs or for other reasons? I think if you calculate you had the gym closed for almost 30 days which does amount to a lot of $$$(profit making tactic?) and its only after someone from your gym expressed his anguish on the Facebook page that u changed your policy on closing the gym,so it was only a retrospective decision.
Xtreme Couture
Salvosa BJJ
matadormma
Evolucao Thai
Mecha MMA
Rev MMA
Action Reaction MM
Rev - $140ish a month
Evolucao - $100ish a month
Those are all I know.
Rev is above average, not the best
Evolucao is newly affiliated with Damien Maia and from what I've heard he's sending out a top level black belt to teach there
Salvosa is also a great BJJ school
And you can't go wrong with Franco Bhering schools either, great instructors there as well.
That's all my opinion though.
I have been looking to join a club as I would like to start BJJ classes.
I have been reading these comments and I see some themes repeating themselves. To me when I see themes repeating themselves I look at them as red flags which hold some truth.
Needless to say I will not be going to this school. Thank you all.
And to Josh, you would have more impact on perspective clients/student if you did not banter back and forth attacking the comments made.
It is not professional and again this to me is another red flag about your establishment.
It would be a better idea if you graciously accepted the comments and tried to work something, take the comments at face value, tried to rectify the situation, ask for more information or whatever. You should be trying to make things better not worse.
Josh its in your interest to resolve issues before they blow up and majority of students leave your academy and join another academy closeby which you consider is shady but has a better striking coach. I think you are suffering from invincibility and feel you are bullet proof. Remember stagnation leads to downfall. Judging your academy by the medals it wins is not a good yardstick.In my opinion you should have asked the people who had issues with double withdrawal to come and see you so that you can take care of things and this would have sent a positive message to your current paying members that you wont take advantage of the trust they have instilled in you and your academy by signing up for direct withdrawal.It is a serious issue and you should deal with it so that others who train here are comfortable.Its wierd and to a point shady that you didnt even bother to reply to them or ask them to come. Arrogance perhaps?
@Maria
TBJJ is a great place to learn BJJ if you think shelling out couple of hundred of $$ is worth it. Most people dont even bother about Josh since you dont have to deal with him directly but if you do ,his Customer Service skills are zilch at best if not negative.
Like I said I will not be registering with this establishment.
I am a Human Resources Management Professional and what I see on these posts is not comforting and raises many red flags.
My interests are learning to defend myself and to release tension/stress.
It seems to me that if I were to join not only will I be handing over a large sum of funds but will also have to possibly deal with the stress that comes with joining this establishment i.e.: double dipping, instructor is there one day and gone the other, arbitrarily replacing classes with others classes, hard time reaching management to rectify situations and etc.
Another big issue that makes me nervous is the lack of a comprehensive contract detailing the establishment’s responsibility to me and vice versa.
Hence, if any legal action were to be taken it would be my word against theirs.
As the shark tank's say, "For those reasons I am out."
If you were at Tbjj you would know that Chris Sit still trains there. He no longer has time for the Sunday class.
Btw no need to do mass announcements when those who train can easily ask Donald or David.
What makes you think josh hasn't spoken to students with billing issues? If you were one of them you should have posted that already.
I hear you. As someone who has worked at Tbjj, its hard not to have some issue with Josh. I ant recall a job where I never had an issue. When I stopped doing sales it wasn't because I had a falling out or anything.
Because I did sales I can tell you are lying about having a billing problem and paying the amount you claimed.
@ Jason Tbjj hands down. I travel these days, and Tbjj gets respect everywhere. The hate on here is jealousy over how good Tbjj is at Bjj and how many students they have.
@ Josh
Seriously bro you think people are like you. They are not interested in discussion. This is not some intellectual discussion. Don't fall for it. Engaging them only brings you to their level.
I know you. You think the public should be informed and you wish you could post the real story about Evolucao, trust me leave it alone.
I think the public would like to know the "real story about Evolucao" so please, Mr. Insider, enlighten us.
"Seriously bro you think people are like you. They are not interested in discussion. This is not some intellectual discussion. Don't fall for it. Engaging them only brings you to their level." This is some Josh nut hugger syndrome right here. You we're not an "insider" You're probably some loser that trains at TBJJ that doesn't want people talking mean things about that "fantastic" gym you attend.
Realistically, Josh is scum and TBJJ is going downhill fast.
Also, tell us your name for credibility's sake. Because you know, you worked at TBJJ...
Btw I worked at Disney world.
^Pretty believable huh?
TBJJ use to take $85 out of my account twice a month "by accident" more than a few times back when the price was $85 a month.
You're just talking bullshit now, cut it out.
Hmm / February 4, 2013 at 03:47 am - Hmm / February 4, 2013 05:06 am.
When I post on forums (like mma.tv) or blogs like this I post under my real name because I choose to say things I have absolutely no problem associating with. I have the courage of my convictions and I say what I mean.
I have been with Toronto BJJ since early 2008 and have had an amazing time training there. I will now post exactly what to expect if you were to ever train at Toronto BJJ.
1) Instruction: We have two full time black belt instructors - Eduardo and Jorge. They aren't just highly accomplished black belts; they have received their degrees in physical education and as such possess even greater knowledge in how to communicate the techniques and training methods that improve you as a martial artist.
Our other assistant instructors are highly experienced and well decorated Brown Belts (Thomas Beach, Nathan Rector, Ryan O'Shea) and a couple of purples (Alessandro Roman, Oscar Dewindt). The reason we have so many instructors and assistant instructors is to make sure our comprehensive schedule is accommodated, and to ensure that there is help on hand for the larger classes.
2) Friendly atmosphere: The reason why our team is so successful and why we have so many medal winners isn't because we cultivate some kind of "meat-head" attitude; it's because we are given two major responsibilities a) To improve ourselves - and b) To become as good a training partner as we can be to help others do the same. These principles and attitudes are fostered all the time by our head instructors Jorge and Eduardo.
I don't believe whoever above stated they are working in Human Resources and stating that they won't attend our establishment because of what they have read in the comments section. Unless of course they believe that no one would ever have an axe to grind, and that anonymous internet posts are a great source of unbiased information.
This isn't Amazon.com where you can verify the authenticity of the poster, have others rate the reliability of the reviewer, and can then take into consideration a wide variety of information to form an opinion. It is an opinion piece on a blog - where individuals have been posting with complete anonymity.
If you really wished to find out what Toronto BJJ is like you could come for the 30 free trial. Literally no obligation. You don't give any payment information... you sign a waiver, train, and make up your mind at any time during the trial.
In fact - you could have attended the recent, completely free, women's self-defense seminar Toronto BJJ offered to everyone; regardless of experience or martial arts club affiliation.
These are all things you could have done to obtain an informed opinion about this Martial Arts club but instead you've apparently decided that the most reliable source of information is a collection of anonymous internet posts - instead of the review above that has an attributed author to it.
No - Toronto BJJ isn't for everyone as it is impossible to have a school that fits everyone's personality.
But there is a reason why there are literally hundreds of people who renew each time their 6 month or 12 month contract comes to an end. There is a reason why we're continually doing well in both local and international tournaments. There is a reason why Jorge and Eduardo are so respected in the BJJ community. Sadly - there is also a reason why there will always be nay-sayers and those trying to stir up trouble and drama.
It's because Toronto BJJ is a successful martial arts club. Something that wouldn't be possible without the many happy students, the great and authentic instruction, and the positive atmosphere we have there.
So for those looking for evidence - you've got the following two positions:
1) Toronto BJJ is bad: Source of evidence? Anonymous internet postings.
2) Toronto BJJ is good: Two sources with attributed authors (original blog and this), medal standings at any tournament we send a team to, the fact we have so many repeat students from all walks of life, the number of community minded programs we're involved in (food bank - literally thousands of kilos raised over the years, evergreen, holiday soup kitchens etc.), and of course...you can see this all with your very own eyes if you wanted to by trying our 30 day free trial. You literally have nothing to lose except your preconceptions and prejudices.
I bid you all a good day.
Robert Bentley
www.twitter.com/Rob_Bentley
www.facebook.com/TheRobertBentley
;)
Jorge teaches nearly every day. He is not just some visiting black belt - he's in there making sure the students and the club associated with his name do well and improve.
There is no "pull you into a consultation meeting". We don't press-gang members into submission. "Intimidation"?? Are you kidding me? Please pray tell what form of intimidation do we use?
Do we threaten to lock you in a room and sing to you off-key until you sign on the dotted line? Do you know how ridiculous your accusations sound?
Robert Bently is a brown belt underneath Jorge Britto, and an employee at TBJJ. Josh let him have his art show at TBJJ when Rob was having financial problems after cheating on his wife. That is why he holds a candle for Josh and TBJJ. Nothing more.
Just continuing the habit I suppose?
Josh did help me with my Art Show...that horrible, horrible person.
I don't hold a candle for Josh or anyone else - I'm simply stating facts that can be verified. I am being honest and forthright - the same cannot be said of you of course.
So in the three sentences you just posted you've demonstrated that you're petty (bringing up elements of someone's personal life), that Josh has done something to help someone, and that you have a poorly motivated agenda.
You'r a sad, sad person. You have my pity.
I can see you're one of those "I'm going to type perfectly so everyone sees how smart I am" guys, that's cute and all but lets be realistic. You didn't address any of the points made by any of the other posters about double dipping, attitude, favoritism or all the other issues that have come up. You can tell me I have your pity all you want. Reality is, you work the desk at TBJJ as a 40+ year old man. All the perfect typing in the world doesn't make you anything more than what you are.
Cheers :)
The "reality" is all of your "points" were addressed previously by other posters. If favouritism was an issue then there would only be a few medal winners at Toronto BJJ, but in fact there are dozens. If customer service was so poor, there wouldn't be hundreds of people who continue to renew their contract and we wouldn't have so many students. If the teaching wasn't of the highest level we wouldn't be anywhere near as successful on the medal tables...but we are. All of our claims are verifiable with a little bit of research, and your claims smack of someone who is bitter for some reason.
You see - if a thinking person were to come on this thread they would see that the only people brave enough to associate their name with what they are saying are individuals like myself. Because of the anonymity of the internet (which is great for people like yourself) multiple accounts can be created, petty attacks on a person's personal life, and irrelevant details continually thrown about.
As far as where I am in life? I'm incredibly happy thank you very much! Although I am not yet 40 I have worked and lived in several different countries around the world and find myself making a living working in a field that is one of my passions. I'm sorry if you can't say the same.
I really hope you find something that makes you happy, because whatever gripe you may have can't be the only source of your bitter disappointment.
So "Reality" you can try to claim truth - but with no evidence, and no courage of your convictions your collection of personal attacks, petty ramblings, and irrelevant segues...it is obvious your claims hold no water.
Good luck with everything!
I'm glad you've found work in your passion as you are a very good artist and I even attended your art show, although I'm not impressed with your biased opinion on Josh or TBJJ in general.
To combat the one counter you made, 80% of TBJJ's medals are from their competition team, the other 20% are white belts that compete just for fun.
I'm done arguing, call me petty or courage less or irrelevant if it makes you happy, doesn't make a single bit of difference to me.
Take care and good luck.
To anyone who read through this thread, many of the claims made are 100% truth and some have been exaggerated. TBJJ is a good school with good instructors. TBJJ is also run by a condescending shady jackass. You will more than likely have money stolen from you and treated like a leper if/when you decide to move on from TBJJ.
There is, however some nice students/instructors at TBJJ and I hope someday they realize they can branch out and open a gym or work at another gym that is much less shady. Take my testimony for what it's worth with a grain of salt and go in and try the trial. Make Rob happy. Remember me when you have your "membership consultation" and they tell you if you don't sign up right away the price goes up a bunch. Remember me when you're alienated because you're not a future world champion or pretty girl.
Don't settle for TBJJ, there is better in Toronto, you just have to be willing to look.
The absolute disregard and disdain that you have for my concerns just reflects the quality of Customer service at TBJJ.
If you are not Josh then its even worse, just goes to show that you and your ex boss are clouded by the economic success of your gym.
Lets for a moment take out Jorge from your gym and see how many leave your shady establishment.
Dude you must be stupid to comment that students should run around asking where Chris Sitt is and find out if he is teaching or not. You are not doing a favour to the members by providing a service, they are doing it to you by training there. If your gym closes down today there are dozens of places to go to.
People can ask Donald and David if they teach? What kind of circus do you think TBJJ is ? You expect people to find out who their instructors will be everytime 3 instructors are silently let go or leave?
@What makes me think Josh hasnt spoken to those who had billing issues? - if you can read which i hope you can, not once has Josh mentioned come and see me and I'll fix the problem or if such a thing has happened it was purely accidental??? All I see him is rubbishing the claims which is immature, unprofessional and childish at best.
@reality and a bunch of the other haters: Its obvious you didn't enjoy certain aspects of TBJJ. That being said, personal attacks on people who speak their opinion (like bentley) is just sad. its a horrible look. are you really all that blind with rage that you feel its appropriate to attack a member's personal situation at home? or their financial situation?
A bunch (or one under multiple handles)of mean spirited, vindictive people here.
I've been a member for 2 years - and happily. Yes its pricey, but the training is amazing. Beyond some people deciding its not for them, I cant imagine how or why you would be so invested or involved in dealing with and hating Josh. How often does the average member interact with Josh? Saying hello when you walk by him? one or two sentence small talk a few time a month?
And all this rage boiling up and pretty much beheading anyone who shares their opinion that is different than yours?
Ugly ugly ugly.
JOSHY HOW IS IT THAT YOU OWN A GYM AND YOU STILL LOOKING LIKE CHRIS FARLEY'S COUSIN WITH A SWEET BEARD?? THAT IN ITSELF IS SUSPECT ENOUGH HOMIE. DONT GIVE SOME COOKIE CUTTER RESPONSE OF "MAKING FUN OF FAT PEOPLE IS CHILDISH WAAHHH"....YOU OWN A GYM FILLED WITH HEALTHY PEOPLE WORKING OUT 24/7 YOU DONT HAVE A 1.5 HOURS A DAY 3-4 TIMES A WEEK TO TRAIN JITS? RESISTANCE TRAINING OR CARDIO? I UNDERSTAND GOING TO LLOYD IRVIN RAPE MARKETING CONFERENCES IS STRESSFUL BUT REALLY THO?. I UNDERSTAND METICULOUSLY STEALING FROM PEOPLES ACCOUNT TAKES SOME TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSY SCHEDULE BEING IT IS ALREADY CHALKED FILLED OF KNOCKING DOWN OTHER SCHOOLS/PEOPLE, AND SINGING YOUR OWN PRAISES OF OWNING THE MOST SUCCESSFUL BJJ SCHOOL IN THE WORLD, THAT BTW BTW BTW TEACHES UNDERPRIVILEGED CHILDREN WHO BTW ARE UNDERPRIVILEGED (THAT YOU TEACH YOURSELF CAUSE YOUR TOO CHEAP TO PAY A REAL INSTRUCTOR WHO COULD TEACH THEM SOMETHING OF VALUE) ... SINCERELY THO CONGRATS ON SOMEHOW DUPING JORGE AND SAULO INTO GIVING YOU A BROWN BELT YOUR SLICK AND ELEGANT TECHNIQUE REALLY SHINES ON THE MATS. I LONG FOR THE DAY OF SEEING YOU COMPETE WITH THE 5 OTHER SUPER-DORITOWEIGHTS IN THE WORLD AKA THE BIGGEST LOSER AKA STAY IN SIDECONTROL USING BELLY TO SUFFOCATE. REALLY THO EXPLAIN THE WHOLE DOUBLE DIPPING THING AND HOW THIS SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM WITH MORE THAN ONE PERSON FOR MORE THAN A FEW YEARS.......
As far as my credentials go, I am teaching, and I am still planning on fighting. You want to speak ill of my skills, that's simply something I don't care to reply to. I have the respect of the people in the Muay Thai community and thats all I care for. Don't bring up MMA striking coaches and throw them into the same boat at the Krus in this city. You are telling people to go to Muay Thai schools that many of the instructors there know me and support me teaching.
Come take a class and you tell me if it's cardio kickboxing. 30 Days Free Trial.
Is Toronto BJJ the cheapest in town? Probably not? Could the pricing be more transparent? Sure... maybe. Do other dojo post their prices on line? Not really.
TBJJ has the best schedule I would say in all of Ontario. They cater to different shifts. Morning/lunch/evening (and at one point a midnight session!)BJJ classes. Plus the other classes (Sub-wrestling/Muay Thai/kickboxing). So really for overall bang for your buck (cue your complaints of double dipping, which I hope were resolved)nothing really touches TBJJ.
The instructors are great and thorough.
The location is fantastic.
Does Toronto BJJ win a lot a medals in tournaments? Yes. The response, attack the premise because the ones that are higher belt levels are the ones winning. Go figure, higher decorated Ju Jitsu players are more successful in competition. Seems kind of logical.
Of course if you have a beef with Josh it's hard to be impartial. I am sure the next angst-filled post will be how I must be some sort of Josh "nut-hugger". God knows I must be I see him like every 6 months or so.
Here's a solution.
Godaddy.com may not have Joshsucks.com available, but the do have Joshsucks.co or .info or .net or .org for less than $9.99 Maybe this would be a better outlet for you to vent.
PS. Oh! bitchaboutjosh.com is available as well Oh! Maybe you could incorporate photo-shopping pictures of Josh in crazy compromising situations too.
I read through this (most of it anyway) with the intentions on seeing if TBJJ is right for me... and I keep coming back to one nagging question. Why is there so much controversy?
Would a place that is as top shelf as Josh says, stir up so much fire in the comments section?
It seems like several people have had some pretty bad dealings with Toronto BJJ
I will stay away.
Smoke=Fire
There's no smoke, there's hate; huge difference. Any sufficiently large organization will have detractors, and there isn't a single martial arts club in the world that is completely devoid of enemies.
Why aren't you asking "If the club is so awful, why do hundreds of people renew every year?" or "If the club isn't so great at teaching Jiu Jitsu, why do so many of their students do really well at tournaments?" or "If the criticisms have merit, why do the comments devolve into trolling, personal attacks, and petty insults?"
It's too bad - but wherever you choose to try for a jiu-jitsu club I wish you the best of luck and best of health. Toronto is spoiled for jiu jitsu and there are many good clubs out there.
Take care,
Robert Bentley
There should have been no issue setting up an appointment in that they usually try to schedule it for a time when you would be coming in to train normally anyway. It would either be at some point before your training session or after.
Clearly from all of the comments (some people are just plain childish in their remarks both for and against) people should realize that Toronto BJJ is a very specific demographic that does an excellent job pleasing the members who are aligned with a competitive and structured, sometimes army like approach to learning BJJ...nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. Sure they have issues with management and keeping track of this and that - what academy doesn't? However if its pure BJJ you are looking for and you are looking to be disciplined in a "no talking" setting where the head instructor has an almost over-the-top passion for BJJ, then this is the place. Particularly if you are interested in competing and WINNING.
If however you are looking more for a social, easy going and relaxed atmosphere where you are allowed to talk and relax and freely voice your opinions in class, as well as come and go as you please (no late penalties etc.) you might consider another gym. I being older, am now at a stage where at the end of the day, I enjoy training in a relaxed environment with no real goals of world domination.
I really believe everyone here is correct, its just a difference of DEMOGRAPHIC and REQUIREMENT. As a business owner though, I would want to welcome feedback both good and bad - wild and true - and simply use it to improve my business - not antagonize and retaliate.
How much will one session cost just as a visitor?
Can I simply walk in?
Also, is your open mat on Sundays open to visitors as well?
Thanks for any help. C
The no-obligation 30 day trial applies to everyone; so if you're going to be in Toronto for less than a month then you won't need to worry about the price.
416-744-6868
I don't mean for this to be disrespectful, but here is my two cents...
As a student that idolized you for most of my time training at TBJJ I have to confess myself disappointed. You've changed. You've become what I hated about Jiu Jitsu. Politics and petty bulls**t.
I hope you do get back to that guy who taught me BJJ all those years ago. The old Jorge would've let those students leave and not need to get one last jab in. This is petty teenager stuff, and you know it. Unfortunately nobody will tell you this because you have a gaggle of followers "liking" your every post. So I'll give it to you straight.
Porra Jorge, you're better than this...
http://instagram.com/p/Xihx9nMsCq/
Having said that and with all the respect and admiration I hold for everything that Jorge has build, I gets difficult to argue against the above post.
Jorge, you are better than that!
And for Josh: A good and successful business builds value to the CLIENT. Revenue maximization as the primary objective is not sustainable and will get you on the ground. A more humble attitude would also help in your business development efforts.
Said to see a place that I cherish so much losing reputation for petty little issues.
I feel that because of certain recent events and accusations I should say something about some of the things that I care about most in my life. The particular aspects of my life that I want to discuss are my Jiu Jitsu, my team, and my beliefs.
There are no special clubs for anyone based on gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion. We are all flawed human beings and we are all trying to struggle our own way to make ourselves better; special recognition is given to those who have demonstrated their passion for the martial art and their desire to be a better person. I also try to take into account everyone’s personal struggles outside the academy because we don’t all enjoy the same privileges. Maybe you have to work many hours and have a family, maybe you’re poor, maybe you’re rich. These things can affect how often you can train, and I understand this.
I want to be very clear – I try my best to treat everyone equally. I don’t care what your background is, what gender you are, whether you are gay or straight, or what country you’re from. We have at the academy people from all backgrounds, and with the love and respect I have for my Jiu Jitsu, I want to make sure that everyone gets the best possible training. The only difference occurs with how much a person is willing to give back to jiu jitsu through their training and their passion. I don’t look at the clothes they wear, where they come from, or what colour their skin is. What I look at is how much they want to learn and their behavior on the mats.
When we put on the gi we are all part of the same family. We look at each other across the mats and the important difference is the technique and the knowledge we've obtained through hard work. Some people might find my classes strict because I discourage talking during class…you can socialize and discuss things before and after class – while you’re on the mats I want to make sure that you learn and grow as much as possible. This is also being considerate to those in the class who are there to learn.
At my jiu jitsu academy everyone has two main responsibilities – the first is to improve themselves as a martial artist and as a person. The second responsibility is to be the best training partner they can be for everyone else. My personal responsibility is to do the best I can to facilitate the environment for this to happen, and to be there for when students have difficulties.
I can’t be the best instructor for everyone; that is an impossible task. What I can do though is try my best to spread the knowledge that has been passed down to me and refined in my own humble experiences.
With respect to my beliefs – you can be Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, or Christian – I don’t care and I have never desired to convert anyone. I have great respect and love for all of the people and on the few occasions I mention my faith, I am always quick to add that it applies only to me. If I share how thankful I am to Jesus for his part in my life I am only expressing how grateful I am for all of the wonderful things I have experienced. I don’t think that everyone should think the same way, and I don’t want force everyone to become Christian like myself. Maybe everyone should be grateful though – if you’re Muslim be grateful to Allah, if you’re Hindu be grateful to Vishnu, if you’re Atheist you can be grateful for the only life you have.
I want to end this by saying that I love and respect everyone, and that when you come to my academy with a desire to learn, that is all I care about. I will do what I can to support your journey regardless of your background – the only warning I provide is that it will be hard work (no matter who you are).
A press release?
We both know you didn't write this.
Yes I don't , but that's what I want
Unless you want me to write in Portuguese ;)
Anonymous I don't know who you are but
anonymous ....???
Sorry
You're better than this ....
All I tried to do was point out that you have a good soul and you're letting it be clouded by your success. Oh well, keep doing what you're doing then. Ossss
Annonimous thanks for you advice
I appreciate that , I may be wrong about my post on Instagram
But it's because I still feel the pain to lost those individuals after the effort I putted on them
I guess I deserved a little bit more consideration
Maybe I'm being selfish
I don't know ...
I'm working on it
In the end I truly like them
But you right I'm a little bit childish
But no one is perfect right?
Hope one day they forgive me
Ossss
Now I hear the great person I learned to respect through the years. No one is perfect alright but we all get one step closer to it when we admit and learn from our mistakes.
Peace.
I hear you but I feel as long as you work with Josh you will see people leaving the academy. So I dont think you should take these events personally,after all its all about $$ when it comes to Mr Josh.
The ones who left must have had strong reasons to leave TBJJ after training there for so long.
Time To Grow Up. stop idolizing someone just because they teach you a sport you like. toronto bjj is a great place to learn awesome bjj. jorge is probably canada's best bjj professor, hes not a role model
"favoritism - Josh and a few instructors give 85-90% of their time and dedication to the elite students. About 50% of the classes I've attended at TBJJ (which would probably be in the hundreds easily) the instructors spent in the "instructor area" of the mat, talking, laughing and making jokes at the expense of the worse students."
This is a complete lie I have been in atleast 500 classes in the last few years. No one gets 85-90 percent of Josh (josh doesnt even teach classes often) and a few insructors time and dedication. How an average scheduled class is run at toronto bjj: Line up before class, Warm up and then A technique is shown. People then go and drill that technique for 10-20 minutes. During this time jorge or the instructor might come back and adress details/mistakes that they see the class making. As well they are walking around and helping out whoever is having problems. AT no point are the instructors showing signs of favortisim to the elite students if anything the elite students are getting the less attention. After that its rolling. Also to say that 50% of the classes you attended the instructors sat on the side and talked shit at the expense of the worse students is a complete lie. If anything what ive seen more of is if a less skilled student is rolling with a more experienced student and this roll catches the eye of an insructor the less skilled student is getting the encouragement/advice from the instructor. Beginners will always get the most assistance and rightfully so, they need it the most.
OF course there are some things wrong with Toronto bjj. But no academy or person in this world is perfect.
All I Know is everyday, I see men,women,teenagers and kids training hard, enjoying themselves and getting better. Ive watched people lose weight. Iv'e watched people make huge leaps in their level of jiu jitsu. Ive watched jiu jitsu change people for the better including myself, Iv'e met some of the nicest and genuine people ive ever met. I get to learn from a great Instructor and great co instructors who really care about showing people good legit jiu jitsu.
Even between longtime members the subject of price is often lied or not talked about. How can one friend tell another he is paying $120 unlimited while that friend pays $150 2 days a week? When i joined prices were transparent, thankfully, or i likely wouldnt have joined.
As far as ppl speaking ill of Jorge or saying he plays favorites or doesnt show all techniques..... this is all laughable garbage. Jorge is the reason for TBJJs success and if Josh were smart he would hold onto him for as long as possible because with the tactics he employs he wont have a business the day Jorge leaves.
There is still time to change. The gym has amazing BJJ instructors and students. Josh just needs to wake up and dump the crappy LI marketing/sales scheme.
Anyways, no place is perfect. Some of the criticisms here are laughable though - Jorge is "hiding" secret techniques? That is the most retarded thing I have hear all week. Is this a mcdojo? No.
You get better by building a proper foundation, putting in the mat time, being dedicated, getting up when you fall down, thinking of the mechanics (how, why, when something works) and build off it. We go over a huge range of stuff and I am constantly impressed with all the details he (and the other guys) go over with us.
This isn't a hollywood movie - you really think there is some secret moves that are the key to the supposed secret group's success? There are so many killers at TBJJ with completely different styles. Do you think they are pining at home about the secret exploding five point palm technique that Jorge wouldn't teach them?
What do you really think goes on in a private lesson? Some crazy transfer of "dark art" knowledge? Its a lesson. You work on stuff.
You know how to get better? TRAIN and stop the whining. This place is like a freaking hen house I swear. In fact - we are told all the time to bring up any stuff we want him to go over more. That being said, a foundation of proper BJJ is not built off of a bunch of silly techniques patched together - you need the movement, the transition, the timing, understanding of what to chain, what to have in your back pocket, how to alter, how to bail...
LMFAO - yes - purchase 10 private lessons and we will teach you a secret arm lock from the roleta sweep! it will revolutionize your game! I'm sire the 100 submissions you have memorized form youtube and drilled 8 times each are all so sharp and tight.
I'm one of the original Toronto Bjj members. I believe I attended the first class ever, back when Leo and Wagnney were teaching. In fact, I remember dropping by for a pre-opening meeting before the mats were even rolled out. Things sure have changed, but even in the early days you had to take the bad with the good.
So let's start with the good. The facility itself was decent. Sure the change rooms were small and somewhat grungy and the renovations were slipshod, but there was a ton of mat space. In 2005, if you wanted a club that could comfortably accommodate 40-60 students at a time, you'd have to go outside the downtown core to find it. If you stayed in the city, you'd be taking your lessons in some cramped basement, rolling into your training partners even if there were only ten of you on the floor. Toronto BJJ changed that.
Apart from the large training area, the prices were far and away the best in the city. A twelve months membership with unlimited classes morning, noon and night, seven days a week ran to $900. If you were a 911 responder or involved in law enforcement it was even cheaper. That price held for as long as I attended the academy, until Jorge's arrival.
The most attractive thing about the place, however, was the quality of the teachers Josh brought in. In my time there I encountered Leo Santos, Wagnney Fabiano, Cesar Rezek (good, good teacher), Roger Gracie (a free two-day seminar for members), Bibiano Fernandes, Ricardo Migliarese, the Ribeiro brothers (the best classes I've ever had) and, of course, Kareem, whose idiosyncratic approach to teaching I always appreciated. Gee, there were a few others, but you get the idea. Josh brought in the best.
Unfortunately, bringing in the best and holding onto the best are two different things. There's just something about Josh that makes him incapable of holding onto such great teachers for any length of time. The club was a revolving door of guest instructors and short-time instructors the entire time I was there. It just got too frustrating for me to continue going, even with his amazing prices and his amazing schedule. What's more, the partings were always so acrimonious. Josh could never really take the high road.
Once a teacher left Toronto BJJ he went from being a great guy - the absolute best - to just another mediocrity. Leo Santos was belittled for not being tough enough for MMA after a knockout loss. His brother Wagnney was said too be old and ineffective without the aid of steroids. Another guest instructor - one who didn't show enough interest in taking over teaching duties after Cesar left - was dismissed as a guy who was often sick because he, too, abused steroids. When Cesar opened his own school, Josh hired a private investigator to photograph every student who went there. If you were a Toronto BJJ student and you dropped by Cesar's club, you were photographed and received a lifetime ban from Toronto BJJ. Some guys were banned just for dropping by to wish Cesar well. Eyebrow raising stuff, for sure.
On top of the revolving door and the nastiness there were all sorts of other annoying things. The school became a victim of its own success in a way. There were always a number of newbies in every class. This in itself wasn't a bad thing. The lifeblood of any academy is new and eager students. Problem was (and maybe still is) that Josh wasn't too fussy about who he let in and didn't do a good enough job of monitoring the new guys. During my time there, I was frequently thumbed, punched, butted and kneed (almost unconscious) by idiots who had no business practicing martial arts anywhere. Sure, you're going to get a little banged up doing this sort of thing, but I've been to other clubs and never experienced the level of recklessness I experienced at Toronto BJJ. One guy, as a result of being power-bombed, sustained a neck injury that nearly paralyzed him. He no longer practices. This sort of nonsense should never happen anywhere, and doesn't happen in a properly run gym.
What else can I say? Well, if you're interested in bjj, keep in mind that this is a serious competition club. Josh wants to win all the medals. If you go here, you will experience a level of intensity you won't experience at other schools. Be prepared for a beatdown. I'm not saying the competition team guys will break your bones - they won't - but they won't necessarily play nice, either. Remember, they want to win. If you're looking for recreational rolling, match up with like-minded people. Or find another club.
If you mix it up with the more serious competitors you may be rolling with someone who has become seriously strong through the use of PEDs. Back in the early days, when the front desk was on the second floor, I often saw internet printouts outlining the types of steroids to use when competing, the proper way to inject them and how to cycle on and off without being caught. They were just lying around casually for anyone to see. Some of the competition team guys were very knowledgeable about steroids and, maybe not surprisingly, got very strong in very short periods of time. Guys who were weak as shit in January would be baby bulls by March. Not to paint everybody with the same brush, there were some guys who never touched the stuff. The judo teacher comes to mind as well as Neil (think that's his name - tall rake-thin kid).
As an aside, does anyone know what happened to the judo guy? I see Robert Currie is still listed as an instructor but I don't see Judo on the schedule anymore. He was a great teacher. Integrity in a gi. Did he ever fight MMA?
Recently I've been thinking about giving bjj another shot. I won't be going back to Toronto BJJ, though. Hell, I don't know where I'll be going. The sport has sunk as the prices have risen. Have all the academies become overrun by con artists, Hell's Angels and rapehounds?
Sorry, let me restart this - I don't mean to come across obnoxious or anything. All I was trying to convey is that anyone who would be concerned about not learning secret moves has their priorities in the wrong place. There are world class BJJ legends that use nothing but basic BJJ. I am more interested in concepts, why something works, how it works, and making it work in different situations.
That being said, depending on when you come in, you will likely see different types of techniques. With all the technical detail, variations, movement, drills, etc... that we do, I can't imagine someone having a beef based off of secret moves.
People should try to focus on the techniques in class - how many students let the techniques go in one ear and out the other, day in and day out, just waiting to roll and "do their thing". These people are the same ones who roar and grunt in frustration while rolling or get mad when Jorge doesn't teach some wonky rubber guard move of the week.
Why should or would he teach "all things"? "Things" take time... a martial artist is not built on demand - the student can't just shout out techniques and expect to understand and learn all the stuff required to utilize it.
I have no interest in bad mouthing others. I have no involvement in any way shape or form in the inner/outter politics. I just can't believe that the thing we all care about (amazing BJJ, learning, training, over coming adversity, improving ourselves) have taken a back seat to all this crazed bickering.
Its so transparent - "dont go to TBJJ, they don't teach you all of BJJ" - even typing that out makes me tired - The people who train at TBJJ and are committed build a proper foundation and have quality technical BJJ. Anyone who thinks they would be missing out on something technique-wise has their priorities in the wrong place IMO.
Anyways, I don't know how else to say it and honestly, offending anyone that is trying to be constructive is not my intention. I think people just need to step back and relax. Clearly the big school here is getting ragged on. It isn't perfect, Josh is a dick and the school is run by and populated by real, imperfect individuals who have (for the most part) passion and skill for BJJ.
Long time reader first time poster.
I trained at Toronto BJJ for several years and I just got sick of the "Joshiness" of the gym.
Over the years the atmosphere of the gym has deteriorated. Where once the gym was a fun place to train I find that it was no longer the case.
I left the gym about a year back and I tried out Xtreme Couture. I found the gym to be lacking in all aspects of martial arts. It seemed to have lost all its best instructors and replaced them with hacks.
I'm thinking of trying out Empire or Open Mat - at least I heard that both gyms have a more positive and relaxed atmosphere.
I'd appreciate recommendations for a good gym teaching 5-10 years-old with a solid focus on community.
Cheers!
First off, I am currently a student a TBJJ, I had began my Jiu Jitsu journey with them, left the province for a bit and trained elsewhere, but now I'm back at TBJJ... however, I won't be there much longer as my contract expires fairly soon, and I have no intention of renewing.
That being said, there are many positive things about the gym, such as the quality of training, a wide and flexible schedule, and great instructors. For the most part, other lower level students and beginners are pretty welcoming for the most part, so when I began I didn't feel entirely out of place or unwanted. Jorge, Tommy, Nacho, Mike, Chi Chi and others are all top-notch instructors with an incredible understanding of the martial art with plenty of experience to share with students, so there is definitely no better credentials in the city if that matters to you when choosing a school to train at. I don't regret my time there, as I learned a lot and made a few friends along the way.
However, there are plenty of negatives, many of which, to me at least, outweigh the positives, among the worst of which is the curent atmosphere of the gym. Again, this is just personal perspective, but this gym seems to value competitors and competitors only. If you feel you can aspire to be the next Pan-Am or World champ, Josh and Jorge will welcome you with open arms, but if not, they'll gladly take your tuition fees, but don't expect a second look from them afterwards. My experience with the gym has been very impersonal on part both Jorge and Josh, which hurts me to say because I can tell Jorge is a genuinely nice person, and he cares very deeply about the martial art, but as a dedicated student of his, he hasn't looked twice my way outside of class or even when I attempt to get feedback or advice from in an attempt to achieve my goals as a future competitor (when I first competed last year, Jorge or any other instructor was nowhere to be found when I was fighting). Josh is much worse, as he pretends to be extremely friendly and genuine during the sales pitch, but won't remember you from the next guy as soon as you hand over the $1200+ in tuition fees (like I said, I've been a student there for over a year, reached blue belt, and train roughly 4-5 times a week and just the other day he couldn't recall my name), and he does have a tendency of speaking behind peoples backs. Noticing this trend, I've observed the distinct difference in the way the comp team is treated as opposed to the regular members, and it is staggering: often comp team members are greeted to class very warmly, all have nicknames etc etc, but when a regular student is trying to be friendly or personable at the very least, they are given plastic smiles and rushed along. Whether or not this is intentional, it hurts the vibe of the gym. And I recognize that the comp team guys are the ones that put the gym on the map, but they represent such a small portion of tuition fees, so it seems bizarre to me that regular members, who are easily the ones keeping TBJJ in business, appear to be slightly marginalized. This is all quite ironic given that TBJJ advertises itself as being a 'family'... it's simply not true, unless you're deeply rooted in the comp team. Forgive if this seems a little too sensitive, but I feel that anyone who pays over a grand a year for 30 min of technique a day should garner the same amount of respect as everyone else in the gym. And lately there seems to be a lot of bizarre internal politics leading to an exodus of top talent from the gym, as surely Melissa may (or may not) attest to.
Josh's business practices are a little unethical or murky, but not criminal as some have suggested. When I got the pitch I noticed it was incredibly steep for what was being offerred, but knowing TO's reputation for being overly expensive with its services, I just accepted that as the norm. However, after about 2 months he pulled me into his office for a meeting where he tried to get me to sign up for a further year because he was planning a 10% "tuition increase" and if I decided to sign up for more time I'd be privy to the original price as well as a discount on private lessons with Jorge... at that point I declined and left with a bad taste in my mouth. It was very high pressure, even after I had signed months before, and I don't know whther or not the increase actually went ahead, as I declined his offer. I'm glad I did (I currently pay around 175/month... anything more for what is offerred is pretty outrageous).
If you're a serious competitor that wants to make a career out of BJJ, TBJJ is probably you're best choice, but if you're like the vast majority of the public that practice for exercise, self-defence, recreation, and the occasional tourney, I'd look elsewhere. There are cheaper options that offer quality instruction as well as a MUCH wider variety of martial arts. I've chosen another gym with just as solid an emphasis on pure BJJ, but with the option of several other complimentary disciplines, and I don't regret it one bit.
Again, that is just my personal experience with the gym and some of the instructors, so ask someone else and you may get a different story altogether.
Oh, and the people were way friendlier. I immediately noticed a more welcoming and enjoyable vibe from this gym.
The gym carries a positive and respectful atmosphere, I've made a few very good friends and that says a lot. I always look forward to my training, which has substantiated into the better part of my life.
Many of these reviews clearly show personal wrong doings. This is very unfortunate, and something we can all relate to I'm sure - to hear a personal experience is more revealing than a brand and a website.
Much of whats being said seems focused on Josh, and more particularly happenings of the past. We all make mistakes in life, fortunately life is a journey we take in stride. We overcome our obstacles to become better people.
My initial impressions of Josh were heavily influenced by the gossip and hear say, such as you see here. Generally speaking, however, gossip is just that (especially on the internet) - and not necessarily truth, so you shouldn't take it as such.
My personal dealings of Josh are as follows - I was very bummed out one time when I hadn't made grading for the level that I wanted and felt I deserved. In hindsight, I shouldn't have let it effect me as profoundly as I did at the time. However, then, I was quite discouraged.
Josh went out of his way to reconcile and help me, without any propagation on my part. I certainly didn't ask for his help. I did, however, very much appreciate it. So, this is actually a very selfless thing for Josh to have done. I do feel that his advice attributed in helping me to overcome my discouragements. Considering the implications of how much my training means to me, this was just the right thing, at the right time.
That story told, you can belittle his character to me all you want, because from my personal experience, he does care - about his students, and Toronto BJJs members. If all he cared about was the paycheque, he could have easily let my membership renewal roll around and subjected me to the sales tactics.
That is my only gripe. The sales tactics are very clearly meant to pressure you. 2 weeks into my 30 day trial, they'll be on your case. This is just the wrong approach for a positive business image, evidently. Short term gain is a poor business model, when in the long term you establish a negative report in the community. I think, that they should update their website and post costs. Complete transparency would be a much better approach - and let the gym sell itself.
It does, just - be careful of the sales tactics. I can say I've gotten my moneys worth, possibly the best I've ever spent - but nobody wants to be pressured into such an investment. Just not cool.
Toronto BJJ has definitely helped me to overcome many obstacles - and helped me to build a foundation for a better future. I may move on some day, but it is a very good gym, and I love my training - in the best shape of my life so far. Its a family friendly, safe and positive learning environment. I recommend it, just hold onto your wallet when they lock you in the office.
First, the fact that the club isn't upfront about membership pricing is plain sleazy sales tactic. And no, the fact that some other gyms employ it, doesn't make it any less sleazy.
Second, the atmosphere, respect and professionalism are supremely important. Based on all the feedback I've read, both positive and negative, it appears that TBJJ has some serious issues it needs to address.
I wish luck to the club and to all current/former students. I'll be taking my business elsewhere.
@MMA i agree with you. TBJJ and Openmat compete with each other regarding pricing and who can milk more $$ out of a customer. @Alex Greene there are many other places with decent striking and grappling martial arts. I would take my business elsewhere as well.
How's "hustling on the streets making paper" going?
1) We will be posting some pricing information online, so
that people can assess prior to trying our classes whether
or not they will be able to afford any of our services.
2) We have already revamped our sales process, and no longer
tolerate the use of high pressure sales tactics (this has
been the case since January).
3) We will be announcing new membership discounts shortly.
We encourage our students and instructors to spread their wings. So far none of our recent instructors have set up their own gyms (with the exception of Mauricio Veio) but one of our students John Stephen has an awesome place in Aurora. Within a year and a bit from now Ryan, who is getting married soon, will have his own spot a couple hours outside of Toronto.
Bodrug trains from time to time at our North York location, and Donald is planning to pop by soon, after having returned from some extensive travelling. Chris Sit still trains here too when time permits.
Who is the us ? :)
Also i wonder what the chumps paying 180 a month are thinking now?? lol. Shady ass Josh and his LI tactics. Never can just be a straight shooter. Over time you just lose respect like that.