Rufus Wainwright Delivers Toronto a Low Blow
Canadian folk princling and Juno award winner Rufus Wainwright took some time out of his busy European tour schedule to sit down with The Guardian UK's Sunday paper The Observer to fill out a quick travel-related questionnaire.
While most of the answers were simple and trivial, cute even, one of the last ones has been throwing Torontonians through a bit of a loop.
I'll never go back to ...
Toronto. I can't stand it - the place drives me mad. I'm allowed to say this because I'm Canadian. I have friends there, I work there, but I find it really hard to like. I will have to go back there, but I wish I didn't have to. It's trying to be the New York of the Midwest. I much prefer Montreal.
-- Source: The Observer - Sunday June 8th 2008
Now, this really isn't a shock because Torontonians are used to this self-hating dialogue, especially considering most of us are imports from other suburbs, cities, provinces or countries. But whether it's serious discontent or just Wainwright rolling in a too-cool Let's All Hate Toronto phase, we won't know until he eventually trundles back to the city and explains himself.
But that may not be anytime in the near future, his last performances in Toronto were two sold out shows at the Danforth Music Hall a year ago today, and according to his tour calendar he has no upcoming Toronto dates in the near future. Could it be that he meant what he said?
But that's ok, we'll always have Martha. She can be next seen performing at the Harbourfront Centre this Canada Day, as part of a free concert series. She also has a new cd out, which I consider pretty badass.
Photo: Rufus Wainwright by Ella Mullins
Comments (60)
I feel really passionate about this topic. Rufus Wainwright is my favourite musician, and I was at his Danforth Music Hall show last year (which was sensational) but afterwards all I was telling people about was his bad attitude towards the city.
It was obvious he didn't like Toronto, and he didn't like us. The crowd was going wild for him, but he didn't care. I remember one snarky thing he said "People here are really uptight about sex, about having fun. Don't worry, it's cute." All of the charming local based banter he makes when he plays ANYWHERE ELSE was excised from his set. It hurt my feelings, frankly.
I've talked to plenty of gays in Montreal and every one of them has had no idea who he is! We love him here. This is the thanks we get.
I'm so sick of his cross-national posing. Nobody really calls him on this, but I will. Sometimes he claims to be Canadian, sometimes he's a separatist and claims to be solely 'Quebocois', often he claims to be a pure American, or recently he'll claim to be German because he has a German boyfriend. He just picks whatever nationality is convenient at any given time.
Here's something else: His last original album (Release the Stars) was bad! It was totally bad, the single was great but the album was terrible. And his Judy Garland concert CD (Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall) was lackluster at best, his phrasing was dull, his voice tired.
Martha was born in Montreal so she has no excuse to get out of a Canadian identity (Rufus was born in upstate New York but moved to Montreal as a toddler.) She's the real deal, her one song on the Judy CD knocked all of his out.
Plus he looks old; he's just 33/34 but he looks at least 37. It's all the drugs/chain smoking he did in his 20's.
Obviously I'm getting pretty emotional. Don't fuck with my city Rufus.
I'm only a passing fan of his, and I like to think I don't care about people who bash Toronto, but I took this one surprisingly personally. I still haven't quite figured out why. If what you say is true, Robin, then his views are even more perplexing. I wonder what happened to him that he takes such issue with the city?
It's his attitude towards the people of Toronto that really bothers me, as well as his ridiculous excuse that he can slander us because he's "Canadian".
He's a Montreal/NYC snob who thinks he's a God. It's not professional to go out of your way to insult other peoples cities. My hometown, in this case.
He doesn't really explain why he has so much distaste for Toronto either. Just some blanket statement about us trying hard to be something we're not?
Torontonians are used to this self-hating dialogue, especially considering most of us are imports from other suburbs, cities, provinces or countries.
Oh, this isn't self-hate. This is a Montrealer clinging desperately to a vibe of Toronto jealousy/resentment that died for most other Montrealers somewhere around, like, 1998.
And, yeah, I say that as an ex-Montrealer. Memo to Rufus: that Toronto snobbiness just ain't that hip anymore. Memo to the rest of us: um, doofus.
sigh... That this is all over Toronto media proves his point: insufferably precious, nasal and atonal though he may be. "The New York of the Midwest" is pretty spot-on.
You think people from Montreal, Tokyo, London or NY would care what one middling celeb would say about their city? They don't have to defend their city's 'cool' factor, because, their city simply is cool.
I agree with the comment above - Toronto is too self conscious. Who care what he says. At the same time I can see where he is coming from - people in this city are fairly cold, never look you in the eye and are pretty much extremely conservative. That aside we've got crappy architecture (ugly ass condos anyone?), a city hall that is afraid to be progressive and people that are hell bent of sticking to the old, bad, boring ways of doing everything. Not sure if anyone remembers but a while ago MSTKRFT dissed the city as well. Saying that Toronto was shit. Don't get me wrong I love this city but it's inability to think big is extremely frustrating so I don't mind when people shit on us, maybe it'll force us to change.
Who cares what he thinks of Toronto?
Most people in the places he likes better don't know who he is anyway.
Torontonians need to start embracing the hate on some people have for this city, and stop caring about every silly comment that comes from people who don't care for it.
You think people from Montreal, Tokyo, London or NY would care what one middling celeb would say about their city?
As an until-last-year Montrealer? Oh, yes, we would indeed, James. Montrealers are always defending the city's cool factor, and until the last few years, did so in exactly the way Rufus does -- by dissing other places on the radar. It was one of the things I truly hated about my fellow Montrealers. Of course, nowhere was that tendency more pronounced than among recent transplants to Montreal...
As to why should we care? Why the heck shouldn't we? People from everywhere else stick up passionately for their cities. Why shouldn't Torontonians?
Toronto tends to get a bad rap because of it being home to many, many major media outlets. People outside of Toronto tend to hear more about crimes in Toronto then they do in their own city. People are under the impression Toronto is crime ridden, even when I show them the numbers and point out that their town usually has far more crime per capita than Toronto.
Its easy to find flaws in Toronto when the media loves to report on them. Crime, Budget problems, school board problems, city hall issues, TTC...
If all I knew about Toronto I learned from the media, chances are, I'd hate it too.
Of course people from other cities would care... One's home is a part of one's identity, so there's nothing strange in people taking this personally.
I won't be coming to your next show Rufus, and certainly hope you put your money where your mouth is and not come to the city again.
If I was a rich kid I would probably live in Montreal as well. If you don't need to work, Montreal is a great place to live. Once you need to go out and find a job, it sucks.
Oh, snap Dave.
That's totally what it is.
Toronto may not be as much fun as Montreal, but it's a lot more livable. I'm sorry if big international rock stars can't see that.
hmmm... did you canadians get upset when Rufus lamented "i'm so tired of america"?
i was born in the northeast. love montreal, but have never been to toronto myself. maybe i'm just full of love, or maybe i'm just not sensitive, but 'Going to a Town' is an amazing tune that, IMO, rings true. if one's being honest, it rings true no matter where the listener is from. maybe Rufus is just "tired of toronto" like he's tired of the usa but still mostly lives here.
i don't know. i guess i'd be concerned if your politicians were saying that. a musician who tends to spout fluff saying it - not such a big deal in my opinion~
why would I care what a rich spoiled kid who has withered away into nothing with his years of drug use has to say about our city.
Hey, it takes time for tired old prejudices to die... even among those you'd expect to be more open-minded and thoughtful.
Some people think all gay men are promiscuous, child-like, effeminate, crystal meth-heads... But then there's Rufus out there, changing people's minds!
Thanks Ru!
Danielle 
on June 11, 2008 12:06 PM
Oh Sam, that comment will keep me smiling ALL DAY.
@Disparishun I should've put together the Toronto/Montreal rivalry first, but if that's the impetus, I think it's a fairly silly one. I love Montreal and I love Toronto, they both have their pros and cons and dissing one to impress upon the other is just so schoolyard.
Sure, there's a certain amount of snotbag posing in Rufus' comment but at the same time I can understand why he might say it. I've just come back from a year in Vancouver and after seeing how people live their lives there, it's obvious why a lot of them would have huge distaste for the Toronto lifestyle: it's less friendly here, the pace is frenetic and there's less natural beauty to be found in this city. But I still like Toronto a whole lot more: in the end, the city has a real no-bullshit vibe, and (relatively speaking, anyhow) things get done.
In the end, if Rufus doesn't really care for Toronto, that's okay -- some people are just going to like Montreal more in the end. If he's unable to divorce the fact that he doesn't really want to be here with the fact that the city also contains fans who are very excited to see him perform...that's a problem.
God. Is that really such a big deal?
I'm not American or Canadian. I live in Taiwan. (Forgive me if my English bothered you.)
I have heard about Toronto. It's one of the foregin places for me.
Anyway, I still believe it is a lovely city after read the original press.
Relax, it dosen't change anything.
Wait, is his answer "throwing [us] for a loop" or "[not] a shock."
Who's copyediting this stuff people???
Danielle on June 11, 2008 1:01 PM
It's not a shock that somebody is hating on Toronto, the fact that it is Rufus Wainwright who has such a strong fan-base in Toronto and also LIVES in Toronto, is the 'throwing for a loop' part. Sorry if my logic defies you.
Who the hell cares what this over-hyped Meth-head thinks? Honestly, I don't particularly care for HIM. I'm gay, and even I think this f-ing pansy should be walking the streets! His voice is grating and annoying like no other.
Montrealers enjoy receiving our money (Alberta & Ontario) and then give us the finger. I wonder how great Montreal would be without our support. I say let the f**kers separate!
Um, Montreal is cooler than Toronto. Same way that NYC is cooler than LA. It happens, some cities are cooler than others. Just deal with it.
Do you know why irony is so popular in Toronto? Because when you try sincerity , the product is lame, square, and clueless.
.. we (Torontonians) should look each other in the eye more often, and not just through huge sunglasses .. I'm trying, believe me.
If your told your city isn't cool, that means it really is... as opposed to being told how much cooler montreal is, that's totally uncool.
How can you bash Toronto for being too self-conscious when that self-consciousness is a result of being bashed for other reasons (too conservative, cold, not progressive, too self-important, not enough like some other city, trying to hard to be like some other city, etc)?
How did this become bashing Montreal? Who cares if he doesn't like Toronto? Who's cooler than the other? Who actually cares? Maybe Gays and the French make you ornery. Maybe just horny.
Personally, I have never understood this whole thing about hating certain cities. I've travelled quite a bit, and have lived in a few different cities in Canada. I can honestly say there are pros and cons to all of them.
I live in Toronto and I love it. But I also love Montreal, Vancouver and Halifax. I like lots of other smaller places as well.
I like to think I could figure out how to be happy anywhere.
Better Bagel (aka Bitter Bagel), Toronto's other nickname is CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE, because you can't stop thinking about us. HA HA HA.
I LOVE Montreal but it's just DIFFERENT than Toronto.
One of the things I love about it is the amount of Federal money that's gone into building the subway system and infrastructure that could have only happened by holding the system hostage with threats of separation. Though, Montreal (and Quebec as a whole) have lost major cool points lately with their hypocritical treatment of their minorities. A few Muslim women hiding their faces and all of a sudden the province with the LOWEST CHURCH-GOING population in Canada finds Jesus again.
(all that said, why does anyone care what Rufus says? Or ANY musician for that matter? I've never understood interviews with musicians/artists since most of them - particularly the young ones - have nothing interesting to say.)
Designer Tyler Brule picks up where Mr. Wainwright leaves off.
From today's National Post.
Monocle's upcoming July/August issue names the world's 25 most liveable cities. Montreal comes in at number 16 and Vancouver at eight. Not surprisingly, considering who runs Monocle, Toronto is absent from the list. Tyler Br?l? (who also founded Wallpaper*) has been vocal about Toronto not necessarily being his favourite place. What were his exact words about a trip in 2005? Oh yes: "I just felt angry;" "it felt like a place that had taken nothing away from its mistakes;" "skyline littered with eyesores," et cetera. Last week, after a "break from the city" of a year and a half, he came back to promote the special Monocle issue and celebrate his grandmother's 90th birthday. He stayed at his mother's house in Etobicoke. Does he hate it here? Not exactly. He's hard on a lot of cities, especially ones that don't live up to their potential. And with Toronto, as he told Adam McDowell, it's personal.
Q Has your opinion of Toronto improved at all since your last visit?
A Well, I think -- and I've certainly gone on record with this in the Financial Times and in other places -- that Toronto has a case of "the comfies."
Q What does that mean, specifically?
A You're in a rapidly growing North American city and, for all of its traffic woes and urban woes, life is still pretty good here. However, there are dozens of cities that are hurtling ahead of Toronto. That's where the comfort issue comes in. Even though it's lost its raison d'?tre, it's still incredibly comfortable.
Q So you mean comfort in terms of complacency. What are we complacent about?
A How can we have one of the most important cities and have this railway lands issue where still nothing has been done? We have this opportunity on the harbourfront which has become completely squandered. In the adopted home of Jane Jacobs? She would be flipping in her grave now if she could see what's happening. I also look at where that energy ends -- on Richmond, Queen, wherever it may be -- and then the gaps, the canyons, of towers that are going up. I mean, where's the street life?
And my God, when you fly over Toronto you see these vast tracts of two-car garages that jut out in front of the house, and these communities where you have to live by the automobile. It won't be sustainable.
Q Does Toronto in particular frustrate you because you used to live here?
A Yeah. And it has potential. That's where the issue of comfort comes in. It has all of the natural assets, that's not the issue. Why don't we have high-speed rail? Why don't we have the world's most stellar public transport system, a model that people come from all the world to see? Bombardier is in both Toronto and Montreal. We could go on and on. I worry that it's going to come screeching to a halt, and it'll be game over a little bit.
Q What would your advice be to David Miller to get us over the comfies?
A If your brand is stuck or broken or in need of reinvention -- and I don't think Miller should be beaten up for it; I don't know the man and I don't know if there's a need for new leadership -- get on a plane and go look at 10 cities around the world. Look at the frequency that Zurich has with its tram system, for example. Ask yourself, "Is this something that we should be doing?"
Why would I come here? That's a central question. What brings me to Toronto versus Montreal? Montreal can play its French card, later opening hours and certainly its more liberal nightlife. That's incredibly important.
When you've got friends coming into town, the last thing you want is for people to go, "He's got a really nice flat and it's great that his kids go to a nice school, but shit, it's boring there."
Proving once again, Toronto is the town fun forgot.
I don't get it. How does a whole city's population try to be like New York? Do we send out a memo to each other? Is Rexdale "like New York"? Is Etobicoke? Maybe Downsview? Its a big damn city!
It's really just lazy criticism. Come on Wainright! Pin us down on something specific! I'd love to hear it.
We get bashed for trying to be like one city and bashed for not being enough like another. The only way to win this game is not to play.
Jeeeezus, would you take a look at yourselves already! What a bunch of insecure, bitter, patronising, resentful and (in one case) violent-ass people most of you are. No wonder Wainwright finds it hard to like Toronto. You've just shown why. Idiots!
I'm a long way from Canada and while I knew there was an Ontario/Quebec rivalry going on, I had no idea it was this pathological. What the hell is with you people? This "us vs them", "you're either with us or against us" attitude is really immature, even primitive. What are you, George W. Bush? ;-) Sure makes me not want to go back to your fair city!
Of course Wainwright is gonna prefer Montreal -- it's his childhood home and he has family there. Meanwhile, he's touring the world, thrilling people with his talent. In the last six months he has worked it from Japan and Australia to Iceland and even freakin Brazil. Guess what guys, that's a lot of different cities and believe it or not, Toronto is just one of them. Get your head out of your ass and appreciate that there's a big old world out there and Toronto is NOT the centre of it!
You should be fucken proud of this guy -- if only for the taxes he contributes to your economy -- but instead you get yourselves all in a snit cos he exercises his democratic right to express an opinion. No wonder so many great artists from your country choose to leave it. Even Martha Wainwright, the "real deal" -- umm, note to Robin: she's lives in Brooklyn, dumb-ass! It seems the Wainwrights, like so many others, have outgrown you. Again, ask yourselves why this is.
Also, Danielle, to the best of my knowledge, Wainwright has never won a Juno, so don't go trying to paint him as an ungrateful son or whatever. Yes, go ahead and make what you will out of his not winning -- of course you will -- but this time try to get your facts right, OK?
In the meantime, try to grow up... or at least grow a spine. Cry-babies.
Also Danielle,
Wainwright lives in New York City, not Toronto. This just adds more weight to my argument. And he doesn't play folk. Is it too much to be a proper journalist and, I dunno, maybe check your facts every once in a while?
Get your head out of your ass and appreciate that there's a big old world out there and Toronto is NOT the centre of it!
Um, go back and reread, friend Keith. The tenor of the conversation is not that Toronto is the centre of any universes -- though I can see how those reading through stereotype-coloured glasses can't help but see that sentiment everywhere they look. Rather, the point is that, hey, it's not so cool when you bash Toronto, Rufus.
I'm a long way from Canada and while I knew there was an Ontario/Quebec rivalry going on, I had no idea it was this pathological.
I can understand how things can look confusing from a long way off. But, well, you're a bit off. The deep irony here is that the "rivalry" is entirely one-way. Everyone in Toronto loves Montreal. Don't believe me? Just visit and ask anyone. Montreal! Great city! As I found out when I moved here, people just can't get enough from Montreal.
The thing is, in MTL there is still a one-way rivalry going on -- it's about papering over insecurity by hating on TO. It's mostly played out. It's been gone for years on the French side. Most Anglophones are over it, too.
But there are still a select few -- especially recent Anglo transplants from TO to MTL, ironically -- who seem to need to assert their identities by complaining loudly to anyone who will listen about how, like, lame Toronto is.
Moving away from that, and not having to deal with assholes like my Better Bagelled friend, Rufus Wainwright, et al, is one of the best things about not being in Montreal anymore.
(Tangent but, bagel buddy, just who do you think created Montreal bagels in the first place? And where do you think they live now? Seriously, we're not exactly talking about watertight compartments here. Montreal. Toronto. 401, VIA, and millions back and forth yearly. Deal with it.)
You should be fucken proud of this guy -- if only for the taxes he contributes to your economy -- but instead you get yourselves all in a snit cos he exercises his democratic right to express an opinion.
Um, Keith? Deep breath. Yep, Rufie is expressing his opinion. And so are we. If you thought it was a transgression of the natural order to criticize the Alterna-Dubya ... well, sorry you had to find out the hard way. Suggestion: move on.
" The deep irony here is that the "rivalry" is entirely one-way. Everyone in Toronto loves Montreal. Don't believe me? Just visit and ask anyone. Montreal! Great city! As I found out when I moved here, people just can't get enough from Montreal. "
Sure Disparishun, that's what our fellow posters AriUp, UnionStayShyn and Greg Ginn are saying too. ;-)
But I agree with you -- everyone has the right to free speech. Which is why I am saying, why do care so much? Aren't you big enough to handle a bit of criticism? Maybe you should ask why someone doesn't like your city, rather than just going for the jugular. "My city right or wrong"... very juvenile. Just shrug it off and, like you said, move on.
Keith Keith Keith
First of all, I didn't specify folk singer or artist but "Folk Princling" as a reference to the fact that he is the son of Canadian folk singers Loudon Wainwright III and Kate McGarrigle. It's the first fact mentioned in interviews with him, his Rolling Stone bio, etc, and I believed it to be common knowledge for anybody who knew even the slightest about him as an artist. I thought it was a cute title, to be quite honest.
Secondly, according to the Juno website, probably the most official place to check facts about this type of thing, Wainwright won best alternative album in 1999 and 2002. I don't know why you don't consider those as wins? http://www.junoawards.ca/archive_past.php You can search for it right there.
You may indeed have me on the living location, as it's generally quite hard to decipher where many celebrities hang their hats. He has condescended to stay in Toronto for long periods of time for his music but indeed we are not his long term residence of choice (obviously.) Considering I didn't claim he HAD, your nitpicking just comes off as catty.
So next time you try to tear apart my fact checking, you should really double check yours.
Danielle, I beg your pardon and sincerely apologise. And that's a real apology. I made a mistake re. the Junos. So Wainwright isn't a complete failure! :)
No wonder I'm not his manager!
Wait a sec. I know a lot of Toronto people who don't like Montreal in the least. Everyone in Toronto does not love Montreal. Especially if you have to do business with the French. They're mean people.
Speaking of fact-checking ... Loudon Wainwright III isn't Canadian. He's American.
But yes, Torontonians do love Rufus Wainwright. He has a real following here and his shows always sell out. That's why we took umbrage at his slamming our fair city. It's all a bit ungracious.
but Tripper, did he criticize the people of Toronto specifically, or the city in general? i interpreted it as the city. while made up of people, big cities owe a lot of their "feel" to infrastructure & planning. not something that everyday individual people have direct control over.
i think some are being a little sensitive here. i'm sure if given the opportunity, Rufus will clarify. at the very least, he'll thank his Toronto fans - who i'm sure he appreciates. & being a long time fan, i'm sure he does appreciate his fans.
i've been to major cities all over the world (Shanghai & Lima being the furthest) & i have to say, they all have their own feel. some seem similar to others, some are great in terms of what they offer, some less so. i remember seeing Philadelphia for the 1st time & thinking it was awful. too big, dirty & boring to be Boston - which i was very familiar with, but nothing like NYC. if i had been asked about Philly then, i would have had a negative comment. it doesn't mean anything. the only difference is, Rufus is famous & has media making a record of what he says. personally, i would have stayed away from making the comment he did about Toronto if i were him. but i'm not. Rufus is full of off color remarks. it's one of his trademarks. seriously though, the guy is all heart~
The diss by Wallpaper magazine's Tyler Brulee hurt us more internationally.
Perhaps RW spendt some cold nights here. Thanks guys ! !
Now, his sister.. I'd like her to weigh-in one day on the t.o.
debate. she seems to be cerebal
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