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Environment

Plug-in Cars to be Tested in Toronto

Posted by Eugene / May 25, 2007

20070524_Meter.jpgAfter complaining about smog and auto-idling, I see a Toronto Star article on Mayor Miller's Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle Pilot Project which is based on an innovative approach to reducing our fuel consumption and maybe getting rid of some smog.

This is how the pilot project works. A bunch of hybrid cars will be converted into "plug-in" hybrid cars that can be recharged from the same outlet you put your toaster in. These converted cars, unlike regular hybrid vehicles, will rely mostly on electricity. They also get double the gas mileage of traditional hybrids (turns out regular hybrids can get much greener with a modified battery).

These converted hybrids, ten of which will be tested for a year in Toronto, will go 50 km around the city with one charge and only a little gas. 200 vehicles could be part of the project by 2008

Driving around a plug-in car is hopefully just the beginning. Having a vehicle operate off of the electricity grid opens up a bunch of other ideas for the future. You could use your car as a portable power source (in case of a power-outage) or plug your car back into the grid to sell surplus electricity back to the electricity supplier (an idea that California is presently studying and could be similar to British home-owners selling back superfluous electricity from rooftop solar panels and home wind turbines).

It may still be a while before a lot of us are driving anything like a mass-produced electric car - the batteries are still expensive, they are hard to find, and other reasons you may have heard of. Despite the wait and the lack of big changes like the greening of New York City cabs, it's promising to see us trying some greener ideas.

Photo: Image from room929 from the blogTO Flickr pool.

Discussion

15 Comments

Barry Rueger / May 25, 2007 at 10:34 am
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I would hope that it goes without saying that plugging in an electric car does not necessarily contribute to <i>reducing our fuel consumption and maybe getting rid of some smog.</i>

As Ontario still relies on coal burning plants it more likely just moves the the release point of emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack at the power plant.

You also need to look critically at both the cost of recharging a car from your home electrical outlet at a time when power rates keep climbing, and at Ontario's ability to handle the kind of increased demand which could result.

"It's a brown out today folks - don't plug in your cars!"
Dan / May 25, 2007 at 10:46 am
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^^

I agree, but the potential is there to put electricity back into the grid as well... In this case, people would be encouraged to plug in to avoid brown outs.
Eugene / May 25, 2007 at 11:07 am
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Yup, there is the possibility of replacing one problem with another here and then there is the annoyance of electricity demands not being met. As for the coal issue, we'll see if McGuinty can keep his promise of closing all coal-fired power plants by 2009.
Chester Pape / May 25, 2007 at 11:25 am
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If you plug in the cars overnight when loads are supplied mostly by base power which is mostly nuke rather than during the day when coal is burned for peak loads can be a good thing.

Short tutorial in how the IESO consumes power, remember you can't store AC so you have to generate it as you consume it.
It takes time (days) and costs money to start and stop a nuke plant so ideally you run them 7x24 for long periods of time, electricity consumption in Ontario never (excepting giant blackouts) goes below a certain level (the base load) so if possible you want to run the nuke plants to supply all of that base load. Coal plants can be started and stopped faster but it's preferable not to cycle them too much so you use them to supply mid peak power. Finally you can turn hyraulic generation on an off at will so that is used to match to the real peaks that occur during morning rush hour and the dinner hour.
Mark Dowling / May 25, 2007 at 11:57 am
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Chester Pape - the "If" you started with is a big if.

"If" the cars plugged into a Hydro box which had a remote management system, similar to the home aircon programme, such that they could *only* be charged off-peak then it might be a goer, using otherwise wasted nuclear and hydro baseload power. During peak, you could still plug your car in, but only to sell back power to the grid.

If the system trusts car owners to be responsible, well we all know how well that works in Toronto.
Chris Thompson / May 25, 2007 at 01:30 pm
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The idea presented in the original article is compelling with regard to using electric power to charge our hybrid cars. I can't for the life of me figure out why that wasn't part of the original design for a hybrid car. To take it a step further, it would be a great idea to use power such as solar, wind and micro-cogeneration to "trickle charge" the batteries.

Having said that, I do take issue with one point made in the original article:
"You could use your car as a portable power source (in case of a power-outage)"
Not only would a car be incapable of providing the amount of power that would be required to run anything useful other than a few lights, but let's consider the amount of pollution created for so little benefit. Let's assume you could produce 500W of power using your car as a generator. Consider how inefficient that is! A car does not have the kind of alternator that is required to supply power like an Automatic Standby generator would.
Here is a comparison:

Typical Hybrid Engine: 1.0L to 1.4L
Output: 500 to 1000W

Typical Standby Generator 440cc to 990cc (under 1 L)
Output: 10-18kW (18000W)

I would much rather have a unit with an engine the size of a small motorcycle producing up to 18kW than a small car providing at most 1 kW.

Check out www.theinstallteam.com for more information on Automatic Standby Generators running clean Natural Gas or Propane. Also check out our solution to save 30-40% of your household water consumption by recycling greywater to use for flushing your toilets.

Chris Thompson
The Install TEAM
(705)734-6258
www.theinstallteam.com
Barry Rueger / May 25, 2007 at 01:44 pm
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<i>The idea presented in the original article is compelling with regard to using electric power to charge our hybrid cars. I can't for the life of me figure out why that wasn't part of the original design for a hybrid car.</i>

My understanding has always been that the typical 15 amp household outlet really isn't enough to handle the charging needs of an automobile sized battery.

For home charging to be really effective many homeowners would need to install a dedicated circuit, and possible add a heavier electrical service into their house.
Chester Pape / May 25, 2007 at 03:00 pm
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<i>My understanding has always been that the typical 15 amp household outlet really isn't enough to handle the charging needs of an automobile sized battery.</i>

To charge a fully electric vehicle like the Phoenix SUT which has a 35Kwh battery yes you need heavier wiring, but just something like a 240V 30A dryer or stove circuit, to charge a hybrid car battery is a much lighter draw, the Prius has a 1.3Kwh battery, you could charge that fully from a 15A circuit in about an hour, now the concept here is for the PHEV vehicles to have larger batteries but even if you double or triple the battery size you still can charge it with a 15A circuit no problem.
Appleby Mennym / May 25, 2007 at 04:19 pm
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I hope you are realizing that this is the same province that, as soon as the weather gets hot enough to require air conditioning, starts shrieking at the Proles to turn OFF the air conditioning and save our overburdened, antiquated, out of date power grid from collapsing? Not to mention all the bellowing about closing down the coal-fired power plants entirely? Where's all this electricity going to come from? Or do you belong to the generation that believes food grows in stores and electricity is manufactured inside the walls of your house?
kent beuchert / May 25, 2007 at 05:28 pm
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You have to realize that the number 1 priority of a mayor is to convince the voters that he's doinmg something. If he can, while spending only a couple hundred thousand of their dollars on 10 vehicles that are converted into short ranged
warranty-voiding plug-ins, well, you all fully deserve what you get. Give me only $10,000 and I'll tell the mayor not only what a plug-in is, but how it works. Every day. For a year. Is this mayor really that obtuse? Notice that the 10 plug-ins aren't factory built cars, which begs the question as to exactly what is being tested. The gullibility of the public to swallow silly nonsensical projects like this one,
I suspect.
kent beuchert / May 25, 2007 at 05:30 pm
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You have to realize that the number 1 priority of a mayor is to convince the voters that he's doing something. If he can, while spending only a couple hundred thousand of their dollars on 10 vehicles that are converted into short ranged
warranty-voiding plug-ins, well, you all fully deserve what you get. Give me only $10,000 and I'll tell the mayor not only what a plug-in is, but how it works. Every day. For a year. Is this mayor really that obtuse? Notice that the 10 plug-ins aren't factory built cars, which begs the question as to exactly what is being tested. The gullibility of the public to swallow silly nonsensical projects like this one,
I suspect.
Gregory / May 26, 2007 at 11:38 am
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You want to free yourself from oil dependancy and get rid of vultures sucking blood money off your back then this is the only way. David is on to something really good for us all. Toyota and the lots have made battery onboard pack small for saving weight and cost and to make the automobile really autonomous for the mass. But that will surely change the minute they see this kind of Plug-in demand thus obliterating negativity in what few rightfully see as wasteful high cost of addition/conversion test project.
What's so thankfully good about "New Hybrid Technology"is it has given us the tools and means to green and efficient transportation. Now you could pick and choose and assemble your own green car anyway you want it. It's up to you to add more battery for longer distance or change type of combination electric motor/ICE or standalone individual units. All comes up to same results, GREEN. And save Real Bucks in your wallet in the long run.
For one I've been working on putting together slew of electric bycicles and have been into electric cars conversion projects for a long time . Now that there's such abundance of new parts I do plan to tinker some more and see if I can come up with something useful.
Andrew Wells / May 26, 2007 at 12:37 pm
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Before embarking on new "green initiatives", David Miller would do well to get his house in order first. The City of Toronto is already a Financial disaster, and rolling out PR stunts like this only serves as another distraction from our crumbling infrastructure and seeminglingly endless tax hikes.

Toronto needs a competent Mayor who can focus on our priorities - namely getting our city back in the Black - before trying to address larger issues like going Green.
John / May 27, 2007 at 11:46 am
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"Before embarking on new "green initiatives", David Miller would do well to get his house in order first."

Ever hear of multi-tasking? It takes little effort to make a statement, that will encourage others to conserve.

And what about fuel cell cars? Less dependancy on electricity? Honda has fuel cell cars being tested in various places.
Erik Spek / May 27, 2007 at 09:51 pm
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I commend the Mayor for his taking action.

Having worked long and hard as a team to interest the Canadian transit authorities to adopt zero emission transit buses using NaNiCl commercially available batteries (80 kWh, 620 V, 160 kW) at 3 x price of lead-acid and being met by lame duck leadership, Mr. Millar is leaps and bounds ahead by at least trying. The PHEV technology has a lot of question marks when lithium-ion batteries are used but it is progress. For those who question the economic viability, let's wake up and start using total life cycle costs. The low, yes I said low, oil prices are preventing progress if we always refer to sticker price economics until it is too late and then the armchair critics ask why they can't have PHEVs and EVs right now and at the same price as ICE vehicles.

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