Analyzing the Sun's Top 10 TTC YouTube Videos

The embedded video shows at least some sort of response from the people on the bus. Some of those nearby tried to stop them, others further away yelled at the driver to stop the bus.

What concerns me in that particular video is the driver's apathy. Looking out the window and you can tell that he/she keeps driving, ignoring the escalating situation on the bus. These are the people we're supposed to look to when problems arise (or at least what the TTC's advertisements lead you to believe).

It frightens me to think that if I were to ever end up in a situation beyond my control that I'd have to rely on another passenger to call the police. You mentioned the bystander effect Danielle, and not only do I believe that it would not only hold true in the majority of these situations, but be escalated by most people's belief that the TTC Operator would be the one to address the situation (and in this case, and I'm sure many others, doesn't).

Now, to be fair, the driver may have been the one to call the police and not another passenger, but it does seem unlikely since they continued driving during the fight.

On a related note, who the hell manufactures these so called security cameras? We can fit a super high res camera into a cellphone for a (relatively) low cost, but it costs us millions of dollars for cameras with image quality too low to be at all useful?

Maybe I could support cameras if they were part of a system that actually worked, but when they can't even be used to identify someone after a crime is committed, then what is the damn point?

Deterrence? Fine, then put up a box with a red blinking light and save yourself the money.

"On a related note, who the hell manufactures these so called security cameras? We can fit a super high res camera into a cellphone for a (relatively) low cost, but it costs us millions of dollars for cameras with image quality too low to be at all useful?"

Are you assuming the youtube videos are from the TTC cameras?

^ That'd be a pretty shite thing for them to do with the security cam footage.

As it turns out, a friend of mine shot the last one of the little boy yelling at the train. Hadn't seen it 'til it turned up in the Sun but apparently it was on BT too. I doubt that was on a cell phone, she has an alright handheld.

Ever since we posted the story from the Shameless blog about the pitiful emergency response incident, I've been thinking more and more about the vulnerability as of late that TTC employees face. With a security camera in place that won't even be used for live-updating surveillance, how can they claim it's also to protect drivers? In cabs, studies have proven that cameras DO assist in driver safety, but it's not the same case for bus drivers where they are vastly outnumbered.

I think, rather, they should put more security into backing up drivers and incidents, than security cameras that are only used for arrests after the fact. That's not DETERRING crime, it's only attempting to punish crimes that have already occured. A real strategy to reduce crime would be to stop it at the fact, punish real crimes as they are committed, such as the rowdy drunks harassing the homeless man on New Years. But as that was a misunderstanding, it would take the participation of PEOPLE as witnesses and active members of society to also stand up for injustices. Thus, negating the bystander effect.
Blah, I'm feeling idealistic today.

"Are you assuming the youtube videos are from the TTC cameras?"

I wish the TTC Cameras were of that quality. No, I'm talking about stuff like this: http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060424/trix_suspect_060424?hub=TorontoHome

Where security camera footage wouldn't even be allowed as evidence in court due to its poor quality.

Now, granted, some of the newer cameras are much clearer, but that doesn't fix the many other holes in the system. Like Danielle said, they don't review footage until after the fact and only if they deem it necessary. Getting assaulted, sure. Getting an ipod stolen? Fat chance. Even if you get lucky and they decide to check the camera on the new bus with the new camera and luckier still that the images it captured somehow result in an arrest, it doesn't change the fact the crime was still committed.

stupid 905ers

Actually, c, considering the fact that they're using the TTC suggests that the vast majority of the passengers are 416'ers.

Some of the videos in the Sun article are a bit ridiculous. Obviously nobody but me checks it out because the videos only have like 250 views as it is. I saw the 'Rangers' fan on the subway and he wasn't hurting anyone from what I saw. There are always going to be crazy people on the TTC. It's a fact of life in Toronto, it's not something you can try to avoid. The best approach is not to provoke people and mind your own business. Look at Zanta, some people hate him, others love him. Not all the 'crazies' are out to hurt you.

Now if there is an act of violence, it is usually provoked by something. This is where security should be put into place. The camera won't be much of a deterrent once the person is provoked.

As for other motives such as robberies, etc. Most of these are social problems that should and can be fixed. Now, I'm not saying this will be easy. Robbery will always happen, you can't stop it, you can only tone it down to some extent. Again, security cameras may be a deterrent, but I believe proper security will be more effective.

A camera just sits there, when you have the special constables, the response can be very quick, especially if more officers are deployed. The solution may to have more rental cops during those off peak hours for the female, and younger riders and spend the money that way.

Anyone else notice that the bus' security cameras still had the shipping tape on them, they aren't much good if the TTC doesn't turn them on.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to stop the bus and open the doors to let these idiots out?

While i dont think this is a major problem, what about roving Special Constables who hop on and off buses and streetcars? Ive only ever seen them on the subways. (someone feel free to correct me if they already do this)

I rarely see the Transit Cops (TTC Special Constables) patrolling TTC vehicles... but I always see them sitting/driving around in their Crown Vics... kinda defeats the purpose of being proactive and preventing incidents.

There should be zero tolerance for this type of immature and unacceptable behaviour in our city. Public transit is for everyone. In this situation the bus driver should stop the bus and kick everyone out of the bus who is involved in this fight. It should be that simple.

Dennis - I watched all the videos too, even the Ranger song guy, how else did you think I got to the 'Magic' screaming kid? I was commenting on the themes I found in the more sensational clips they (Toronto Sun) chose. I definitely didn't see a problem with any of the singing clips, in fact, I would like to request more Queen songs sung on the TTC starting today. Killer Queen would be a great start...

"It's a fact of life in Toronto, it's not something you can try to avoid. The best approach is not to provoke people and mind your own business. Look at Zanta, some people hate him, others love him. Not all the 'crazies' are out to hurt you."

You say it can't be avoided, which assumes one would have to deal with it at one point, but you also say to keep to yourself and mind your own business. That is exactly the problem and what happened on the New Years subway ride for example, which got so many people upset. The crazies aren't the problem, inaction is.

I remember when I was just 16 or 17, I was at Spadina station around 11pm and saw a man passed out at the end of the moving-escalator connecting the Bloor/University Spadina trains. He was completely prone, on the ground, unresponsive and elderly. He was obviously not sleeping, he had collapsed. He was just out of sight of anybody to see (around the corner from the streetcar platform) EXCEPT the dozen or so (at least) other passengers ahead of me who had just walked right by him. Since there was no streetcar and the concession was closed, I called 911 and waited for the response team. I was, and still have been, extremely upset at Torontonians for that incident and I haven't noticed a change in attitudes yet and it infuriates me.

Well, let's think about how many other public or private places have similar incidents. Why do we see this behaviour on the train or bus, and not other places? Obviously, these people are under the impression that they will get away with it (being drunk doesn't help). Would they try this in a bar? Unlikely, as security would be on them and have them out the door in minutes. Would they do this in a mall, or private business or on the street? Would they even try this at peak commute times? They KNOW there is no security, they know that no one will intervene. To me, it's obvious, while it is commendable, albeit risky, for bystanders to intervene...it should be the TTC's responsibilty to provide security and safety to it's passengers, ALL OF THEM, ALL OF THE TIME. That means, the same attention is given to someone riding at 3AM as 3 PM. If you go to an all-night gracery store, do you ever worry about being harrassed by a drunk? No. Why? Because you know that the store (usually) accepts the responsibility (along with the liability) for the safety of their employees, customers and people on their premises.Like Janice said, a zero tolerance must be established.

About Torontonians walking by the collapsed person, you must remember this is Toronto there are many illigeals here, they don't want to call the police or 911. Same reason when that person was shot on the Jane bus a couple of years ago and no one wanted to be a witness. Why be a witness when you are an illegal.

"because it's no fun, being an illegal alien"
- sorry.

I don't know why or how this surprises people in this day in age? Either you're new to the city or simply not aware of what it's like to live in such a large metropolitan area like Toronto. If you don't know by now about the Vomit Comet, get a clue! So they filmed it, and it was on the news (maybe because they had nothing better to talk about), and maybe you're one of the countless of people who drives in and out of the city and only gets involved and comments on issues regarding the city when it's convenient to do so. I was born and raised in Jane & Finch, and let me tell you... 2 guys duking it out on a bus sure beats 2 guys shooting it out on a bus. Whenever you get young people, drunk young people together and cram them all into the only method of transportation to get home, something is bound to happen.

The reason most TTC employees (in this case the driver) didn't respond in a way that you would like them to might be because unlike many of you, they see this everyday. It's easy for many of you to sit back and say what you 'WOULD DO' in that situation. I would challenge you to do it for a living, or at least for 1mth on a busy route like the Yonge line or Bloor line and see if your opinions change.

After a while, it's like avoiding panhandlers on the street. For those who aren't used to seeing that, they get a bit scared at first and then they might give here and there. But just like everything else, once you get used to it and realize that there's so many of them and that you can't keep giving to every single one of them, you just learn to not notice them. It's a sad reality, but it's definitely not uncommon for large urban centres such as Toronto.

Why is the last subway on the Bloor line @ 1:50 am, just before last call.

Make sense to me to have it open until at least 2:30-3am to carry the overflow of drunks after last call and take some strain off the dirty blue line.

Accepting harrassment, intimidation, violence and homelessness as "part of the everyday scenery"....

...sad reality indeed. I wonder what we'll "accept" next.

George - I don't know if your comment was targeted at another commenter or my post, but I'm definitely not one of those people who 'conveniently' comments and lives outside the city. I live at Landowne and Bloor, I've lived in Toronto all my life. Does that mean I'm not allowed to care? I disagree with the attitude of 'keep your head down, don't get involved' because I live here too.

Is your solution to just get used to it, and not try to change things? I find that surprising, if indeed you grew up at Jane&Finch, that you just accept that this is the way it should be.

Yorkgate Blvd - when it was still called Downsview, ON =P
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My comments weren't directed to any specific person who's posted on here and I'm not saying to just ignore it and accept it as such to the point where it gets out of hand.

I just hate it when people whine and complain about relatively minor issues that are common in any large city, when there are far more important issues that need attention. It's been going on for a very long time but people only talk about it now because of someone actually filmed it happening. The amount of resources and $$ that would be needed to go into 'fixing' this would be better used elsewhere, where it's needed most. Especially if we're talking about the TTC or taxpayer's money.

Naturally, this doesn't apply to serious crimes such as robbery, rape, murder, sexual assault, etc.. and I too get upset when something serious like that happens in our city when it could've been prevented or when it can be solved but no one speaks out. But to cry and whine over fights, or that someone's singing or jumping or screaming on a bus... that's stuff that small towns complain about because it disrupts the tranquility of things, but definitely doesn't warrant that city hall do something about it IMO.

I'm just saying, let's be realistic here and look at the bigger picture. What's more important? solving real crimes such as the forementioned, or having our overstressed courts process these minor charges and police force run to every 'fight' that breaks out on the TTC? Let's remember that we're talking about a city of 5 million... not 5000 or even 500,000. Things are relative according to size, density, plus...in my experience, you won't get into a fight on a bus at random. Meaning it usually takes 2 to tango.

It doesn't mean to let their be total disorder and to let it become like a UFC fight on the TTC every weekend, but YES fights do occassionally break out on buses and trains, streets and even malls, and YES there are lots of crazies in the city. Welcome to T.O. Canada's largest city.

Any crime is a 'real' crime. If it wasn't worth enforcing, then it wouldn't have been made a law in the first place.

"It doesn't mean to let their be total disorder and to let it become like a UFC fight on the TTC every weekend"

If you refuse to enforce laws, this is what you end up with. Laws are a deterrent for people who would otherwise commit these 'crimes'. However, those deterrents are completely useless if not enforced.

Create a lax atmosphere about a law and you'll create a society that will make no attempt to abide by it.

Forget cameras, the real deterrent is non-stop classical music.

A cop sitting on a 15 year old girl while her friends scream "Why is he on her?!" over and over is 'cops breaking up a fight' ? The video doesn't convey anything like that, nor the description of it on YouTube.

I watched that clip a few times Chris, and maybe it's my speakers but I couldn't make head or tails of what was going on there, so I went by the YouTube description.