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Morning Brew: Stintz comments on Webster's fate, where subway cars go to die, U of T students preserve old psychological tools, and Toronto's tainted soil

Posted by Brianne Hogan / February 21, 2012

TorontoKaren Stintz is has spoken out against the five TTC board members who are looking to oust the transit systems chief general manager, Gary Webster. "There certainly isn't cause to fire Gary Webster," Stintz said, before posing the question that we've all been asking: "Why is it so urgent and do we have the appropriate transition plan in place to make sure that the organization can continue to function?" A special meeting will be held today to discuss Webster's future. In the meantime, there's also a petition to save his job that's floating around.

So where do subway cars go when they die, like the recently retired H4s? Well, once they're stripped of their finest parts, the cars are torched and sold as scrap metal. A few, however, have survived to become restaurants or museum pieces in their second life. In very rare cases, they will be shipped to other cities for use in burgeoning transit systems.

U of T PhD students are being lauded for cataloguing and preserving a collection of 19th brass psychological instruments. So, what, exactly, are "psychological instruments"? Think of a steam-punk styled "ether-administering machine" and you're there.

How bad is the Toronto Coach Terminal? Downright terrible according to the National Post, which takes a look at the still preliminary plans to replace the aging facility with a newer version near Union Station. The current station would be an ideal candidate for a heritage restoration/repurposing.

IN BRIEF:

Photo by Nick Leies in the blogTO Flickr pool

Discussion

33 Comments

Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 08:39 am
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the downtown terminal will be made into condos once its retired
Christopher / February 21, 2012 at 08:46 am
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RE: Bus Terminal's demise: What's sad is that you can see, just out of the corner of your eyes, just how beautiful this terminal used to be years ago.
What the hell is wrong with this city when it comes to the preservation and upkeep of heritage buildings?
AV / February 21, 2012 at 08:47 am
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Rob Ford... i knew you were a slow learner, and I know you are a bit too hefty for your own health, but christ are you one small, petty man.
Sharp replying to a comment from Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 08:48 am
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Settle down. We really have a problem in this city with too much affordable housing. We must raise the bar and build more elite glass sky boxes.
alan / February 21, 2012 at 08:49 am
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san francisco has a whole line that runs street cars from around the world...cool to see...all appear to be cosmetically original and restored...
sacking / February 21, 2012 at 08:53 am
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that is okay the rogue five councillors can sack webster today, because in march the majority of council will be sacking them from TTC commission and appointing a new one. Tweeter has been busy from Councillor saying it is time for a new commission that has toronto's best interest at heart and not just the mayors.
steve replying to a comment from Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 08:54 am
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What would you think would be a good development for the terminal site? One that makes economical sense for the developers.
What would you do with all those parking lots? were the majority of the condos are going up.
were do you propose people are going to live if condos are not built? There is clearly a need and a want to live in the city. Business locate were the employees are, something to think about.
bus rider / February 21, 2012 at 09:01 am
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I don't think the bus terminal is so bad and i'm not sure spending the money to build a new one would be wise. Buses are still a discount travel option so I'm not sure if it's even possible to recoup the cost of a new terminal.

The current terminal is dingy but so what? It's centrally located (despite not being directly connected to Union) and carries out its function. They use the DC bus station as an example for what Toronto's could be, but has anyone been to DC's bus station? It's even further removed from that city's core and you definitely don't feel safe there. It's also sort of dingy too.

Spending millions on a new depot isn't justified or necessary right now.


steve replying to a comment from Sharp / February 21, 2012 at 09:03 am
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What makes condos elitist? Is it more elitist then a million dollar semi in Cabbagetown, 800k for a tiny bungalow in Leaside, a $3 million home in mid Etobicoke or Scarbourgh or just about anything in Riverdale, the Beaches, High Park, Bloor West.......
Kieren replying to a comment from Christopher / February 21, 2012 at 09:14 am
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That requires some form of public funding, which we are always too happy to reduce.
steve replying to a comment from Christopher / February 21, 2012 at 09:25 am
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I would say part of the problem is community engagement. Little is said until the buildings are gone or are threatened, there is also a huge lack of understanding what heritage is, it is not heritage because it is old. Instead of just whining about it here or any other blog. Put you money were you mouth is and get out here and get involved.
MrPotato / February 21, 2012 at 09:30 am
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Let me teach you potatoes how to troll...
Chris / February 21, 2012 at 09:34 am
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Rob Ford and his gang are such small, petty people. I didn't vote for Ford and am not a supporter, but when he won, I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt and thought if nothing else he might help get city finances under control. However, all he's done thus far is who that he's both intellectually and emotionally too immature to be mayor of this city. He's a bully - he doesn't try to persuade or even cajole. His only tactic for getting councillors onside to his views is to threaten them with "Ford Nation" a threat that's becoming emptier by the day. When he doesn't get his way, he lashes out - this move to fire Gerry Webster being only one example of it. He's stubborn beyond the point of reason and refuses to even consider views that differ from his own . No wonder his cabal of supporters on Council is getting smaller by the day.

I didn't think it would be possible given my fairly low expecations of a Ford administration, but he's actually sunk LOWER than I expected.

Steph replying to a comment from bus rider / February 21, 2012 at 09:36 am
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The fact that you have to line up where the buses pull in is as good a reason as any for changes to that terminal. Someone is going to get hit one day, during the ridiculous "parting the line so a bus can drive in" routine you have to go through every time you line up. Plus, when the line up for the London/Windsor bus is so long that it reaches out of the terminal to the street there is definitely a problem with capacity.
And there is the fact that you stand in an enclosed space, breathing exhaust. Can't be good for you.
Plus! They charge a $2 "Facility Fee" for this privilege.
iSkyscraper / February 21, 2012 at 09:42 am
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So let me get this straight -- Ford will fire Webster like the petty high schooler he is because he didn't scream subway-subway-subway from the rafters. His replacement, at least for some period, will be the TTC's new COO, a guy from Sydney, a major international city that has an awesome commuter rail network, a surface-tunnel light rail line, and no subways whatsoever.

Oops!
Ride My Rocket / February 21, 2012 at 09:45 am
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Public transit is for wimps and commies. Get a car, douchebags.
N. Young / February 21, 2012 at 09:54 am
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That bus terminal is an absolute nightmare. Preserving it would be a better idea than moving it near Union Station. That area is already congested as it is.
TheRealJohnson / February 21, 2012 at 11:04 am
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Man, those middle two items really cry out for a pictorial. And yet,cool, restored brass instruments: One picture of a dude gesturing to a display case.
Article on the dismantling and re-purposing of old subway cars: stock image of a subway.

TheRealJohnson / February 21, 2012 at 11:05 am
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K, wait. The Star piece does include a link to the catalogue of instruments. My bad.

http://www.utsic.org/

Xavier replying to a comment from Chris / February 21, 2012 at 11:14 am
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Ford's done a great job so far. He's lowered taxes, he's attained labour peace without a disruption and gained concessions in the process. Firing one of Miller's cronies makes sense. Webster has made it clear that he doesn't want to make changes at the TTC. In the real world not living up to your boss's expectations has consequences
Pro-Ford Troll / February 21, 2012 at 11:23 am
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LISTEN you stupids. When ROB FORD said in the election campain that he would cancel Egelington LRT and just keep the buses, we knew he rilly meant Put the Whole LRT Underground (even under the Don river!!!) and call it a Subway. You keep calling him a Lier but u just cant read his secret code's!!!! This is a democrisy and Dear Leader won the election so this means we OBEY HIM and alway's agree with Him!!!!!!1
ford replying to a comment from Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 11:36 am
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yeah he is real good at wasting our tax dollars as well, like firing webster will cost us 500 - 700k and a possible law suit that will cost us even more. But hey what does ford care about wasting our tax dollars, he was willing to waste 65 million by canceling transit city. This keeps up he will waste more money then miller ever did, if one thought that was even possible.
Chris replying to a comment from Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 12:03 pm
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If all that were true, if Ford were really doing such a "great job", he'd have more council support. Fact is, at the beginnig of his term he was basically unchallenged on council - the "loony left" as the Toronto Sun likes to call them, were too chastened to do anything, as Ford's election was clearly a rebuke against their time in charge, and the more centrist councillors, who represented the true balance of power, were willing to give him a chance.

However, now that we've all had a chance to absorb what a Ford administration means, we're seeing that even some of his own allies can't stand with him anymore - the only councillors he can absolutely rely on when push comes to shove are the Mammolitti/Minan-Wong/Nunziata types, who just enjoy being in charge for a change and want to keep it that way, or the Norm Kelly/Holyday types who just hate the left as much as the left hates them.

The fact of the matter is that Ford's recent losses on council show that if he can't bully councillors he doesn't have the skill set to persuade.

That said, I would agree with you that he did a reasonable job with the recent labour negotiations, but even in that instance, I seriously question how much of that was him and how much was actually Holyday. That final deal showed a level of compromise that Ford has so far shown himself incapable of in any other matter - his style so far has been "my way or the highway". Works well for third world dictators and for Stephen Harper - Toronto City Council? Not so much.

Also, I would be wary of giving him too much credit on the budget - everyone knew there were going to be cuts coming, and the fact is, despite all of his tough talk, he didn't find the "waste" or "fat" that he claimed over and over again was rampant, but rather had to cut into the "meat" to actually show something for all of this talk - all because he couldn't resist giving the police, the largest single item in the Toronto budget, a nice fat raise at the same time that he chopped the VRT, thereby removing $65 million in annual revenues from the budget. And even in that, Council pushed back and killed some of the most damaging cuts. But then again, in the revisionist world that Ford supporters seem to live in, that would qualify as finding "gravy".

Fact is, his stubborness and refusal to actually work with council is doing real damage both to his credibility and the City, and he's wasting lots of time and money with his vendetta against the TTC.

He's in over his head and he's too stubborn or stupid to realize it. I have never seen council as polarized as it is now and that is entirely attributable to Ford's "leadership".
skidmar / February 21, 2012 at 12:05 pm
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I smeared gravy in my underpants this morning.
holyday / February 21, 2012 at 12:25 pm
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Deputy mayor holyday says much like council's recent transit decision...decision today on wbster may be "hasty" #sl

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holyday doesn't support the firing either....
steve replying to a comment from Xavier / February 21, 2012 at 01:29 pm
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"He's lowered taxes," He has? please explain.
Anon416 replying to a comment from steve / February 21, 2012 at 01:38 pm
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Well, before Ford you had to pay an extra $60 a year to block other people behind you with your car.

Now, after Ford, you have to pay an extra $60 a year to ride the bus, which is stuck behind other people in cars.
steve replying to a comment from Anon416 / February 21, 2012 at 02:08 pm
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I don't have a car so never paid the $60. I do take the TTC, so my taxes went up.
tax replying to a comment from Anon416 / February 21, 2012 at 02:32 pm
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don't forget property taxes went up as well, and did fee across the board like rink and swimming pools, etc.
Jacob / February 21, 2012 at 04:11 pm
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Don't forget that Ford has ruined it for future mayors. Any progressive mayor that gets elected is going to face "tit for tat" payback from the right wing members of council in retaliation for Ford's ongoing humiliation.
Superman / February 21, 2012 at 04:44 pm
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Let's not also forget that Rob Ford wanted fancier business cards, so he charged the City extra to print them... and had the City pay his own family business for them. Respect for taxpayers!!!

http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/taking-care-of-business-cards-rob-ford%E2%80%99s-hypocrisy/
Parker / February 21, 2012 at 04:47 pm
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WTF is up with this vindictive mayor? What an ignorant bully.

Webster's severance should be paid from Ford and his enforcers' salaries, not the taxpayers.
BillyO / February 21, 2012 at 05:10 pm
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The new coach terminal will be at 45 Bay St (near the ACC and Union Station). Here's a link with an early render (the green portion and the base of the building is the new coach terminal):




http://www.arcestra.com/view/arcade/45-bay-st?city=Toronto&;type=OFFICE&suiteSize=


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