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<title>blogTO Recent Comments: Mayor Calls for a Handgun Free Canada</title>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/feed/recentcomments/?9329</link>
<description>Comments recently made in this post on blogTO</description>
<copyright>Copyright 2009</copyright>
<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:48:02 PST</lastBuildDate>
<item>
<title>peter</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Sounds like a really, really stupid idea.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c329608</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c329608</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:07:56 PST</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>outdoorsontario</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Reality is Mr Miller........http://outdoors-ontario.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c311933</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c311933</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:36:39 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Enfielder</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Ban Handguns? how about the bad guys first. 
everything bad about guns is already illegal. that said

We live in a free and democratic society. Sec 7 of our Charter guarantees our right to defend ourselves. Handguns protect life. that's why your beloved mayor has an armed escort. Funny he thinks his life is of more value than yours.

I have also read on various and sundry blogs and boards that 
"WE DON"T NEED" handguns to protect ourselves,,by that same reasoning then, we don't need smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, or seat belts since we don't plan on having a fire or car accident..but they are comforting to have just in case. 
But the people I worry most about are the ones who say "handguns are only for killing,I don't want people to have them because they might shoot me." in psychology they call that projection. what they really mean is they fear their own anger and they might shoot someone. Take ownership of your emotions and by all means never own a gun you might be the next spree shooter.
to the Hunters who have no problem with banning handguns. after all you don't hunt with one. consider that minutes after they ban handguns it will be pointed out that your rifle and shotgun are 30 times more powerful than any handgun therefor more dangerous ,,thats right they won't take your deer rifle but they will seize your "HIGH POWERED SNIPER RIFLE"  

there are 7 million firearms owners controlling 21 million firearms. using the logic of ban advocates we should be living in something resembling down town Khandihar with roving bands of vigilantes doling out frontier justice and ours streets should be running red with blood. Funny I haven't seen it yet...I live in a semi rural town plenty of guns here ,,I can leave my door unlocked and the local business's idea of security is a rope across the drive.
"if it saves one life" c'mon folks think about that one, if that is your defining argument. then lets start with doctors
they will accidentally kill more people this year than guns

you all need to get a grip. you have watched toooo many movies and tooo much TV.  ]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c282172</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c282172</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 13:55:11 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Time for Change</title>
<description><![CDATA[
This is another example of our fearless leaders attempt to look good and that he cares outside of himself and his agenda - which is crap.  What gun carrying upstanding citizen who robs a bank will adhere to this ban.  This hurts people doing things right. I do not have a gun nor need one but I do not want someone taking my opportunity away for doing nothing wrong!  Supporting this ban is supporting repression and dictation.  What else should we let them meddle with - talked to a bar owner lately - they will fill you in with the citys wonderful initiatives coupled with the provinces master plan. What has he accomplished in his years in office.  Thats right I now have a supersized recycle bin where a good percent ends up in the landfill anyway!  The city is gridlocked and we get 800 more buses - makes sense because if you have a car are you going to get out of it to take the peasant wagon, changing 3 times to go 3 blocks, trying to find a seat in rush hour to sit beside the guy who forgot his deoardant that day - not a chance.  We missed the boat on the subway however LRT throught the city must be explored or another alternative.  Where is this green space, wheres the roadways, upgraded infrastructure, what about cheery st development into clean parkland, and has he noticed the dust from the business all moving to the 905 where they actually want them! Our entertainment district will be a ghost town if the ban on new clubs continues.  The city is dirty, public spaces are closing and our Mayor represents us as a whiner rather than a doer.  We need tough leadership to get on track - this guy is fluff.  We are way to quick to ban everything rather than think out real solutions - anyone remember pitbulls?

Applications for a real leader are now being accepted.  We need a positive change to get this city back to one of the best in the world
]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c277453</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c277453</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:03:43 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
You see fsilber ... the idea seems to be that the permission to use "reasonable" force doesn't just automatically equate to carte blanche for carriage of a "weapon". But, also don't interpret this too literally; people HAVE been acquitted for using weapons in self-defence in Canada (one quite recently in fact, he used a kitchen knife on an armed home invader and this was found to be reasonable force). Don't use a literal or linear sort of tack on Canadian law in this regard, you're just going to frustrate yourself. :)

Anyway, the whole point of my comments is that this is a bit of a distraction; self-defense isn't a valid reason for any normal citizen to apply for a licence in the first place, and the only place you can even legally LOAD a handgun, much less even think about firing it, is at a formally approved and sanctioned target/training range. It's literally a crime to even load one outside that environment; people sometimes underestimate how strict our laws already are.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c277220</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c277220</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:56:04 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>fsilber</title>
<description><![CDATA[
"While the Criminal Code does grant all Canadians the right to use "force" to protect life and limb ... Take a quick glance at the Code to see what happens to you if you're found with any item whatsoever that could possibly be construed as a `weapon' in this country."

That sounds a bit schizophrenic to me.  What good is a right to use force to protect life and limb if other laws effectively prevent you from doing so?  And what kind of government would try to prevent you from using force to protect life and limb?  It sounds to me that your government's benevolent reputation is undeserved.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c275179</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c275179</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:30:38 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
The status of any such "tool" as being "legitimate" is actually pretty shaky. While the Criminal Code does grant all Canadians the right to use "force" to protect life and limb (and those of others - yet this is a duty few of us seem to take seriously or educate ourselves about), take a quick glance at the Code to see what happens to you if you're found with any item whatsoever that could possibly be construed as a "weapon" in this country. Your attitude is ... a little out of step with the general spirit of the Code (and that of many strict target shooters at that). Yes, there do exist cases where a Canadian has used some type of, uh, "tool" in immediate self-defense, and was indeed found to be innocent of using it in an unlawful manner. But given the exceedingly strict limits on how a handgun may be stored and transported in Canada, I think the discussion of immediate self-defense application is ... really not the most pressing issue and a bit of a distraction (and could be abused to paint some kind of misguided Rambo image, in fact).

I think it bears mentioning, for example, that pistol target events are still part of the Commonwealth Games and Olympics , clearly events with only sporting (and no Rambo) intent. This is how many (licenced, responsible) people see this issue.

I freely admit that this stuff is a powerfully touchy subject in our fair country, both emotionally and legally, to the point where it's hard to even discuss.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274929</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274929</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:48:53 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>fsilber</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Jer talked about healing the minds of at-risk youth so they won't turn to violent crime.  Even if we did that, the effects would not be immediate, so in the mean time we'd still need tools with the legitimate purpose of helping us kill burglars, muggers, rapists and carjackers.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274560</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274560</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:58:30 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Thanks for the discusson. It's now a rather modest five rounds for something like a rifle.

Speaking of modest, here's an alternate proposal: make that five round rule apply to all (legal) handguns (it is currently limited to ten, there). Practically any legitimate, professional range will only permit the use of five at a time anyway, so this should not be a huge problem for anyone.

[Clearly though we again encounter the whole rub of "what if so-and-so just gets illegal magazines from the U.S.?" and/or "so thugs are really going to throw away their illegal mags?" issues that creates some ... nuance.]]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274459</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274459</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:06:53 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Steve</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Thanks, notanti,

It's good to see something positive come out of that senseless tragedy.

So, hypothetically, if someone were to try something similar today, how many rounds would they be restricted to before having to change the magazine? Far fast does a magazine change take on average?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274443</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274443</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:41:52 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
The high capacity magazines of the type used by Lepine have long since been banned outright. Any weapon that folds up in the manner his did is also now "restricted". His heinous act was not forgotten when the new laws were written up around '95 or so, for sure.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274439</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274439</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:24:43 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Here you go (reduced in length for brevity only, not effect):

Dear [name removed],

Thank you for your email letter sharing your perspectives and input.

We need zero tolerance and people who not only use guns but possess guns should be penalized to the fullest extent of the law ...

... The Mayor is of the opinion that this ban on private handguns and semi-automatic weapons would lead to fewer guns on the streets of Toronto ...

Best,

Joanne Miller]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274438</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274438</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:21:28 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Steve</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a ban on semi-autos as well. If you're a legitimate hunter, as I know the overwhelming majority of Torontonians are, if you happen to miss with your first shot and have to watch your quarry run for cover while you have to manually reload, let that be a lesson to you to practice a bit more.

Semi-autos do their fair share of damage, too. Marc L&eacute;pine was the registered owner of the semi-auto rifle he used at the &Eacute;cole Polytechnique massacre.

But it's interesting that he seems to be sending a mixed message. Maybe it's worth a little follow up.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274436</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274436</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:10:26 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>notanti</title>
<description><![CDATA[
So the plot thickens.

If you write a pleasant letter to the Mayor's office stating your support for this effort, you are sent one in return. This letter, however, does not simply state that Miller seeks a ban on handguns.

The return letter actually says "semi-automatic weapons" (a term that perhaps sounds intimidating at first brush, but actually describes a incredibly wide spectrum of legitimate hunting rifles and shotguns, for example, otherwise known as the typical type of firearm found in the country as a whole).

This is a TREMENDOUS departure from what Miller is stating in the papers. The ramifications are vastly more far-reaching which is likely precisely why nobody from the Mayor's office seems to be making this statement in public (I think even they know the true scale of the implications of doing so).

Once again, it is very obvious that Miller needs to make his position crystal clear. He is launching a "hearts and minds" campaign without being clear on his goals or his methods, and I can't see how that sits well with anyone on any side of this discussion.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274429</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274429</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:42:29 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Wendy Weinbaum</title>
<description><![CDATA[
What an EMBARRASSMENT Mayor David Miller is to all Canadians!  As a Jewess in the US, may I remind everyone that criminals are stopped by FIREARMS, not by talk?  And that America wasn't won with a registered gun?  That is why all REAL Americans put our 2nd Amendment FIRST!]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274425</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274425</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:27:12 PDT</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Steve</title>
<description><![CDATA[
OK, to hell it. I guess the only solution to illegal guns is to make legal gun ownership mandatory. That way no one will have to acquire a gun covertly since everyone will have them legally. Win win.

Of course, everyone will have to carry their firearms wherever they go, just to make sure they aren't caught with their guard down. Let's face it, every one's going to have a gun on them, so constant vigilance will be a necessity.

Maybe we can give guns to kids at their high school graduation. That way, more kids will see it through to the end. Our society will be more learned, better armed, and there'll be no contraband handguns.

Maybe we could drain all the school pools and turn them into firing ranges. I mean, if we're going to be giving guns to kids, we better make sure they know what to do with them.

Thanks to everyone who spent five minutes to write long rambling knee-jerk reactions about how the petition will never work when you could've just signed it in a fraction of the time. You've renewed my lack of faith in humanity.

Sure, it's a band aid solution and the problem is huge and complex, but at least it's a start. At least Miller's trying.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274400</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274400</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:22:41 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>waypasthadenough</title>
<description><![CDATA[
As soon as the law is passed all the criminals will line up at the police station to turn their guns in. You can bet on it. 

If this passes you Canucks had better start killing your "Liberals" before you become like Britain. 

If that piece of garbage was my mayor on the day the law passed I would begin hunting him. 

Take note that on his video page this piece of garbage forbids posting comments. The "Liberal" scum don't care what you think. It's their way or you die. ]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274392</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274392</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:47:16 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Jer</title>
<description><![CDATA[
This issue has been bandied around since the american civil war - and by far smarter people than myself or the other people here.
The issue is not simple. Only those people - who believe it requires a straight-forward, short-term, and heavy-hand - are simple.
The people that are so desperate or emotionally-damaged that they feel they need a gun are lost causes. Current sentencing and trial systems, though not great, do get those who happen to get caught - and the resources that police have available are improving. No matter how much money we throw at post-problem cases - we won't catch them all.
The key is to provide the facilities that prevent individuals at a young age from becoming desperate or damaged enough that they feel they have no other option than a gun - and that means massive investment in infrastructure (social services, community facilities, local counseling, etc.), raised taxes, volunteers, de-segregation of  'supported housing', and other plans to 'intervene' in those families, school settings, and social circumstances that create 'at-risk' youth. We need to aspire to a more northern Europe type of system. In TO we are so tightly squeezed together - communities and neighborhoods mean so much to each other's well-being that we can't hope to be happy by hiding in our houses and just hoping the problem will go away. Give more and get a more 'livable' city in return. If you feel that you cannot afford to support the necessary tax hikes, an urban setting is probably not ideal for you.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274382</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274382</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:08:51 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>fsilber</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Steve asked "Do gangs and thugs and criminals care if handguns are banned?". Hey answered "Well, why bother making, say, murder illegal if people are going to kill anyhow? Answer: to send a message."  Nope.  Wrong.  We make murder illegal, because if it were legal the state couldn't hang murderers.  But you don't need  handguns to be illegal to hang murderers or imprison robbers  because murder and armed robbery are already against the law.

Norm wrote: "It's like banning crowbars to prevent break-ins."  Jerrold answered: "... except crowbars have actual utility, whereas handguns are meant for killing."  Killing is also sometimes necessary; that's why we give guns to cops.  And sometimes when killing is necessary -- no cop is around to do it for you.

]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274320</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274320</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:29:41 PDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Mark Hammond</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Would we not save more lives by lowering impaired driving with a ban on beer in 24's?
Maybe Mayor Miller could have a petition for that next week?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274299</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/04/mayor_calls_for_a_handgun_free_canada/#c274299</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:13:09 PDT</pubDate>
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