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<title>blogTO Recent Comments: Morning Brew: November 21st, 2008</title>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/feed/recentcomments/?11432</link>
<description>Comments recently made in this post on blogTO</description>
<copyright>Copyright 2009</copyright>
<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:53:32 PST</lastBuildDate>
<item>
<title>Manoj</title>
<description><![CDATA[
The way I read it, it sounds like his dog only got a shock, not killed. 

Do they know how/why your dog was electrocuted yet?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329511</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329511</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:57:21 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Manoj</title>
<description><![CDATA[
The way I read it, it sounds like his dog only got a shock, not killed. 

Do they know how/why your dog was electrocuted yet?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329510</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329510</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:55:12 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>MM</title>
<description><![CDATA[
What happened to Ian's dog? Was he o.k. in the end?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329506</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329506</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:44:50 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>MM</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Brett, Thank you so much for the article. It was very difficult to find any info on this with a Toronto perspective.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329505</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329505</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:42:42 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>B</title>
<description><![CDATA[
It looks like they found a solution for these problems in Boston:

http://www.powersurveyco.com/article007.html]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329500</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329500</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:04:49 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Manoj</title>
<description><![CDATA[
MM:

Sorry to hear about Pierre. I moved here from NY a couple years ago and there were several cases of stray voltage down there, some even involved people getting killed! You should sue the ISHT out of Hydro. This has been an ongoing problem for Hydro and apparently they have done nothing about it! Look at this story from last year:

Shock and paws: A current tale

As if winter doesn't have enough hazards, now we have to worry about 'stray voltage'
BERT ARCHER 
Special to The Globe and Mail
February 3, 2007

The first incident of what's known as "stray voltage" was reported to authorities a week ago when several pedestrians and at least one dog were shocked when they touched the suicide prevention railing on the south side of the Prince Edward Viaduct. On the same day, Globe reporter Ian Brown's dog was also zapped on Cumberland Avenue in Yorkville.
The border terrier "started yelping and barking and screeching, as if she'd been hit by a car," Mr. Brown says. "Then she began to stretch and stiffen, as if she was being fried or was dying." 
A crowd gathered as Mr. Brown picked up his pet, breaking the circuit. "A woman told me she had heard of dogs getting shocked when they walked near lampposts in the city," he says. 
Back on the viaduct, the street was closed for two hours while Toronto Hydro investigated and fixed the problem -- loose connections touching rebar in the concrete, which in turn was in contact with the protective railing. 
No one was hospitalized, but again a dog had its fur singed.
Though the issue of stray voltage is pretty low on Toronto's radar, this winter incident might be a signal of things to come.
Periodic stories of New Yorkers, from the 8-year-old running through a sprinkler, to the 30-year-old who took a jolt in TriBeCa, pop up in the U.S. papers. And at least one New York boutique, Trixie + Peanut, is selling hiking boots with heavy rubber soles for dogs. (With their exposed pads, pooches are a sort of early-warning system.)
The worst incident occurred three years ago. Jodie Lane was walking her dogs in Manhattan's East Village one winter day when she was killed by the stray electric current running through a metal plate in the sidewalk. 
Though aware of stray voltage problems in the city before, Con Edison, the city's utility company, has since launched a campaign to prevent further injury. By last year, the number of stray voltage sites had been reduced to 914 across the five boroughs and Westchester County. That's a 20 per cent reduction from the year before. (The number had been higher prior to Ms. Lane's death.)
Blair Peberdy, a spokesperson for Toronto Hydro, says that this is the first time he's ever heard of a case of stray voltage in the city.
"Circuit breakers would usually short out before the voltage got high enough to harm anyone," Mr. Peberdy says. "The cause of this short circuit, we're looking at, but it's likely that it's caused by the wet weather and the salt."
Chris Olert, speaking for Con Edison, agrees. "We see an increase in incidents of stray voltage we detect with the city's use of salt on the streets," he says, explaining that it can corrode wire casings and increase conductivity.
"We've bought a fleet of vehicles. . . and they look for stray voltage and can pinpoint it from the vehicle," Mr. Olert says. "As soon as we find it, we repair it, whether it's on our equipment or someone else's."
In contrast, Hydro only investigates citizen reports, according to Mr. Peberdy. To check stray voltage on an ongoing basis, Hydro employees would have to go around the city and laboriously hook up wires to lampposts and metal plates. New York now also deploys handheld proximity detectors called LV-S-5s (which, incidentally, are available for $351 each from Young Utility in Barrie).
And New York City has gone as far as developing non-conducting service-hole covers made of a metal composite. "We take this very seriously," Mr. Olert says. He stresses that this is not just a New York problem, citing similar incidents across the United States.
How big a problem is stray voltage in Toronto? No one knows, because no one is really checking. The Public Works Committee says, through Gurjeet Dhillon, an assistant to chair Glenn De Baeremaeker, that it's not their problem.
"This is a Hydro matter," Ms. Dhillon says, "and the city's involvement only goes as far as closing off the roads. 
"The distribution of electric power is governed by provincial legislation, and it comes through Toronto Hydro."]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329496</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329496</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:29:14 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Disappointed</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Key questions to ask here:

Is Marihuana illegal?

This question has not been answered consistently for a long time. However, as of July 13, 2007 the Ontario Provincial court deemed possession laws for cannabis unconstitutional.

Therefore. Was it illegal for the Kindred Cafe to allow people to smoke Marihuana that they brought to the premises?

No.

Did the cafe promote responsible smoking of Marihuana? 

From my experience the cafe enforced strict age limits (18+ or 19+), limited the amount of time a person could spend on the patio (thus limiting how stoned a patron could get) and served food and beverage that counteracted the effects of Marihuana smoke.  The vapourizers located on the second floor of the premises allowed patrons to enjoy their marihuana without having to inhale carcinogens or burnt plant matter. Also, no tobacco smoke was allowed inside the smokers tent, including blunt wraps.

So you can be the judge of that.

Did the cafe pose a threat to the neighborhood?

It seemed like a pretty quiet place to me. No fighting. No alcohol. No crowds out front. No odor. No excessive noise. As ambiguous and forgettable as any downtown independent coffee house at first sight. 

Did Kindred Cafe add anything positive to the neighborhood?

Yes. Foot traffic on a barren downtown street. It gave people a reason to go to Breadalbane Street. A street that would otherwise be relegated only to sad souls who hangout beside the YMCA at night. The foot traffic created by Kindred brought responsible citizens to the area and created a safe environment for all using the street. With no Kindred, there is little night traffic and thus there is no one watching the street in case anything goes wrong.
 Also the people who went to Kindred tended to visit local restaurants and bars thus helping the local economy.  
Lastly with Kindred Cafe being a green bean fair trade coffee shop they  were helping contribute towards a fairer and more sustainable coffee industry and world economy. Even if only on a small scale.
  
Did the Kindred Cafe provide a use for people other than recreational smokers?

Yes. They provided discounted entrance rates to medical marihuana exemptees and allowed a safe environment for them to consume there medicine.  I  could not go there without meeting at least a few people who were battling serious illness (HIV or Cancer) or had other conditions (IBS, epilepsy) that marihuana helped mitigate the effects of. So, Kindred definitely played a serious role in the medical marihuana community in Toronto.

Is distributing Marihuana illegal?

Unless you are a registered compassion centre, yes.

Did Kindred Cafe distribute Marihuana?

NO. They told me and any other patron entering the smokers area that it was strictly "bring your own". No dealing was tolerated on premises by customers or by staff and I saw the employees enforce this rule more than once.  

Did the Kindred Cafe keep marihuana on premises?

Not that I saw. And because no dealing occurred there, it would serve no purpose if they did. 

Did Kindred Cafe distribute "space cakes" or "space shakes" or any other food items containing canibus?

Who's to say? Has anyone seen them prepare their food? Did anyone see without a shadow of a doubt marihuana placed into various foods and distributed to the customers? Did the products even work or were the patrons stoned from smoking? If the drinks were laced, was it with weed or simply Huelen or some other medicinal herb known to cause relaxation and sedation.

So that question remains unanswered for now. 

Is selling marihuana edibles illegal?

This question has clear answer as well. I hope I remember correctly; in the book "Bud Inc." the author has a section dedicated to a woman in BC who sold cookies laced with marihuana for a sustained period of time. She was charged but later charges were dropped. However, recently (Sept 5, 2008) marihuana edibles maker  "Tainted Inc" was charged with manufacturing marihuana edibles. 

Marihuana edibles do offer a smoke free way for users to ingest the active ingredients of the plant without having to inhale carcinogens or burnt organics and is therefore a healthy way to get a buzz on. However the legality of these edibles is still in question.

With all this said, did Kindred Cafe break the law?

Maybe. Depends on whether the "space cakes" were legit and whether those cakes are in fact illegal.


I am disappointed. I thought Canada was a progressive country that respected the rights of the individual.  I do not see the crime here. People ingesting their medicine or coping mechanism in a safe and social environment and not affecting other people that did not want to be involved in the activity. It is sad. The Kindred was a social experiment that showed how the marihuana industry can be responsible, can actually be an asset to a neighborhood. A place where medicating oneself was not a private act by an isolated individual in a cold environment but a community activity that fostered understanding and tolerance. A place were people from all spectrums could meet, talk and smile. It is sad.
 There seems to be no shortage of liquor licenses for new bars that allow the consumption of a far more damaging substance. A simple historical bias allows for this. Police and policy makers simply cannot justify their stance on Marihuana or substance prohibition in general. Study after study after study has shown that the "war on drugs" does not work in any sense and that treating drug use as a health issue and not a criminal issue leads to lower drug use and populations. 
The average citizen does not even understand why a certain drug is illegal. Again and again I am faced with the same cyclical answers: 

-"Why are drugs illegal?"
-"Because drugs are bad."
-"Why are drugs bad?"
-"Because drugs are illegal."    

Unfortunately people cannot seem to escape this type of puritanical rhetoric and it still holds sway in our government as the raid on Kindred showed.  Our country is not progressive: we spew out just as much greenhouse gases per capita as the US, Canada is in love with Wal-Mart and McDonalds, we rape our pristine nature in the name of oil companies and racism against First Nations Peoples is entrenched in our national identity. Now we are following the same "war on drugs"  style enforcement that even the US government is admitting was a mistake.  

I am disappointed indeed.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329463</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329463</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:37:22 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Matt Mernagh</title>
<description><![CDATA[
UPDATE!! Kindred Cafe is re-opening its doors this weekend. Please stop by and visit Kindred Cafe, or the other business in Yongesterdam. Blaze On!]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329435</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329435</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:48:25 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>chephy</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Rest in peace, Pierre...  What a sad story.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329419</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329419</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:06:59 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Ryan L.</title>
<description><![CDATA[
"The cafe served legal medical marijuana patients, which is totally legal."

I bet.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329406</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329406</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:07:58 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Dave</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Oh, and the cafe has re-opened with new furniture.  Come on by and support Kindred!]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329381</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329381</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:44:33 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Dave</title>
<description><![CDATA[
The cafe served legal medical marijuana patients, which is totally legal.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329380</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329380</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:43:24 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>gegtik</title>
<description><![CDATA[
/Users/max/Desktop/p-dog-1.jpg]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329372</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329372</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:20:31 PST</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Badbhoy</title>
<description><![CDATA[
@serotonin

Oh please.  Just as saying "pot should be legal anyway" is a poor argument in defence of the cafe, so is saying "it is more dangerous thank you think" a poor argument in favour of the bust.

Yes they broke the law and should be charged but not because pot is bad for you.  Plenty of things that people draw pleasure from are addictive (or more appropriately habit forming) and can be destructive as a result, but that does not justify the hipocrisy of the fact it is illegal.  Should video games and masterbating too much be illegal as well?]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329367</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329367</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:03:28 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>MM</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Thank you for reporting on our tragic loss. Pierre our King Shepherd was the most loving and friendly dog who did not deserve to die in such a painful and horrific way. We are still trying to figure out how this could have happened.
/Users/max/Desktop/p-dog-1.jpg]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329357</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329357</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:26:35 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Ryan L.</title>
<description><![CDATA[
"Too much coffee this morning, man! Too much!"

Or perhaps too little.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329353</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329353</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:14:53 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>serotonin</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Everyone for marijuana legalization seems to act as if overnight it'd be a utopia.

Regardless of whether it's "better" for you than cigarettes or not, inhaling ANY smoke is never good for you, let alone unfiltered. You don't think that you'd end up with a bunch of pro-health anti-smoking campaigns for weed too?

Not to mention addiction. Probably half the friends I know that smoke are actually addicts, but marijuana addiction is rarely talked about. It isn't some super innocent thing separate from all the negatives of other vices. It can create severe depression, and can affect the mental development for early teens.

Point being, it's still technically illegal, but those that want to use it are generally able to without any punishment, and things are definitely more slack here then most of the US. Just because some people were  using it in a public establishment and got caught is not representative of some all-out crackdown.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329352</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329352</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:11:32 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>Mark</title>
<description><![CDATA[
oterry:

Compare the size of the average laneway or alley to the size of a city garbage truck, and factor in the tight turns found in many of the lanes and alleys.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329349</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329349</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:48:10 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>nick</title>
<description><![CDATA[
yes, it's a bit disconcerting that kindred got busted. i think we get really comfortable with the extremely lax pot enforcement in toronto, and places like kindred make us proud of that culture, and happy that it can fly under the radar, or that cops can turn a blind eye. (not like many other countries, where you can get in deep shit if you're caught with even the smallest amount)
however, as someone stated above, you can still have your toke in public pretty darn easily. 
i think part of the reason the cops bust these places periodically is just to keep things in check. they're not really going away forever, the police just like to make it known that they are keeping an eye on such establishments.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329346</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329346</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:43:12 PST</pubDate>
</item>
<item>
<title>RBeezy</title>
<description><![CDATA[
Sheppard or Shepherd? Pee is a conductor...was the dog doing its business just before its demise?

Kindred got raided? oh well. Ganja makes you stupid, and I like being S M R T.]]>
</description>
<link>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329344</link>
<guid>http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/11/morning_brew_november_21st_2008/#c329344</guid>
<category>Toronto, City</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:31:57 PST</pubDate>
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