City
Is 68 storeys too high for the Toronto waterfront?
Prepare to look out toward Lake Ontario and catch a glimpse of that bright, shiny steel cladding. Nature's miracle, indeed. That might very well be the view for some concerned Harbourfront residents, who gathered for a community consultation meeting last night to discuss a proposed 68-storey residential tower for Toronto's waterfront.
And while 68 storeys might sound unbelievably tall, the first renderings of the structure-to-be at 10 York St. were actually drawn to include 75 floors. Either way, that will be one hell of a move-in day. Currently a parking lot, the building will be plopped down between Harbour Street and Lakeshore Boulevard, with York Street to its east and, ostensibly, disgruntled neighbours all around.
Last night was the third community meeting on the building, and it was clear to me that area residents are still far from warming to the idea. While several predictable concerns were aired — namely, those of area density, traffic congestion, and visual obstruction — the most alarming issue I picked up on is the possibility of a City of Toronto conflict of interest.
10 York, as the project is being called, is a Tridel initiative with Build Toronto on its back. In essence, the City of Toronto is an investor, which means the higher the building goes, the more money the City stands to make. Huh.
Councillor Adam Vaughan, who played director at the meeting, cited a $40 million figure in terms of potential profit. He called the relationship between the City and the builder an "uncomfortable" one, adding that there's "No guarantee that the $40 million will go back to relieve congestion in the area."
"My job is to get you the right building on this site," he said, in that Adam Vaughan way.
10 York, as currently planned, will house 726 units and 280 parking spots, along with a three-storey lobby at street level and a widened sidewalk right outside. No word on whether the developer has opted for quartz or granite countertops.
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I believe the Author is paying respect to the 'greater fools' out there..... *tips hat*
I live over in Pinaccle's complex, which has thousands of parking spots underneath and an interesting sight during the day: in the private residents parking levels, there are hundreds and hundreds of cars sitting there unused. Even with lots of parking in Pinaccle, most people don't use their cars much.
I can see Harbour, Lakeshore and the Gardiner from my windows... and I work from home. The biggest congestion comes from people driving into or out of the city for work, not people who actually live here.
The next biggest rouse is shadowing.
Make it accessible and make it fun, and the giant buildings will help provide the perfect balance of natural and urban.
Also you're comment makes no sense. The Union Station revitalization is actually 'more public transit'.
Of course the real culprit here is the looming Gardiner sapping all the vitality out of the street level. Knock it down and rebuild Lakeshore into a grand boulevard like University Ave.
Yes, it will block views from a few of the buildings behind it, just as they blocked views from a few of the buildings behind them. That's what happens when you build buildings, of any height. Would you prefer a sea of parking lots providing a view from Bloor St to the lake?
For context, Chicago has residential buildings up to 100 storeys. New York has several 75-storey apartment towers. Miami has a couple around 70 storeys. Even Vancouver has a 61 story condo tower. This is definitely the right ballpark in terms of height for the downtown core in Toronto.
Once again, Toronto residents are getting caught up on the wrong subject. It is not buildings that block the view of the lake but the poor arrangement of streets around them. Were it not for the rail embankment, and the Gardiner, and the fact that streets in Toronto are insanely narrow, you would have a much better sense of the waterfront. But don't blame buildings for the mistakes of the streets.
The waterfront is already behind a wall of condos, you can't block a view that's already blocked. Like everyone else said, congestion will come from people living outside of the city driving into it. If this building lets at least 726 more people live within walking distance of work, that's 726 cars not driving into this area. So reducing congestion. Plus more people = more stores, more clubs, more life.
Chicago, NYC, LA and countless other great cities do not fear building tall buildings. A city's image to the world is defined by its skyline. Toronto might not have the benchmark art deco beauties of Chicago, but we do have a progressive, glimmering skyline that I, for one, am proud of.
Seem to recall Vaughan saying that would be a key issue he would be pushing for in his ward.
Yes, Chicago has tall condos, but at least they're visually different and interesting in their own way. Cityplace is disgusting and many other condos have just followed suit. No originality. No design.
To me it's a no mans land between Bremner St and the waterfront (I would say our waterfront is Queens Quay - which is actually starting to get better).
If this was proposed on Queens Quay, I'd be against it. But putting it in that no mans land might actually lend some vibrancy to that shitty Garndiner/Lakeshore gap to the waterfront.
This particular line of sight to the water is already blocked.
I also live at Pinnacle like several other posters said (facing the core and the east) and the vast majority of the traffic comes from people on the Gardiner (i.e. the inner and outer suburbs). Pinnacle has 5 underground stories of parking and there are spots that are clean because they've never had a car parked in them and a fair number of spots keep cars for out of town use (I only use my spot for visitors so I rarely go into the bowels of the building.
It's pinned in by the Gardiner and the Gardiner offramp, the land is basically a wasteland without a useful building in there, so may as well get the huge construction and property tax windfall from it.
If people who live in the city are less likely to drive that means they're more likely to take transit... and thus building massive condo buildings all over the place without upgrading transit is making transit congestion worse... which is why I suggested we shouldn't allow any more crazy large condo buildings until someone starts seriously talking about how we can improve downtown transit.
I no longer live down on the Harbour front so could care less if it continues to be wrecked by developers and greedy investors. It's been headed that direction for a decade now.
At least I can get across to the Islands for a bit of R&R when I need to.
On traffic....when I lived on the harbourfront, 3 or 4 times a year, either Lakeshore or the Gardiner was blocked off from traffic. This resulted in traffic chaos, usually on Lakeshore or Queen's Quay. I can remember it taking a hour+ just to drive from York to Spadina on either Lakeshore or Queen's Quay. (normally it takes 5-6 minutes.) But what happens when they permanently close two lanes down on Queen's Quay? (I support this by the way as it will make biking Queen's Quay much easier.) When this happens, you are going see a traffic situation on those days that will make the news. With all the new buildings and density, I could see it taking 2 hours to drive from York to Spadina on those days when there is a traffic closure on Lakeshore or Gardiner. It's gonna be interesing! If you live down there, you better be in a condo where you can access York or Bay without driving on Queen's Quay (i.e. in Harbour Square) or there will be 3-4 days a year where you cannot leave your home by car. And all of the other days won't be fun either.
Further, I want them to keep chewing up some of the most productive farm land in the country. Chew it up all the way to Barrie and Georgian Bay. I don't want dirty outsiders who purchased or moved in after me blocking my view, contributing to increased residential density that will bring businesses in, etc.
I'm moving to Orangeville where I don't need to worry about thousands of outsiders hindering *MY* enjoyment of what I'm entitled to, to the exclusion of all others.
WHOA! Try telling that to the thousands of new condo dwellers on King West who can't get aboard a jam-packed, rickety-tickety 19th-century streetcar in the morning rush.
Let's make Toronto look beautiful, not full of the same old design. We have some of the best looking skylines in the world, lets try and keep it that way.