City
Reaction to the return of Transit City in Toronto
So yesterday's vote to return to an LRT-based transit strategy for Toronto (one that looks a lot like the former phase one Transit City plans) was kind of a big deal — regardless of which of the competing plans you hoped would win the day. Ranging from elation to frustration, there's been no shortage of reaction to the events at city hall. Here's a quick roundup of what's being said in the aftermath of one the most significant city council decisions in recent memory.
IN THE MEDIA
While the reaction on Twitter was mostly positive (see below), perhaps it shouldn't be surprising that the folks at the Toronto Sun were positively incensed at what Christina Blizzard called the work of a bunch of "elitist downtown councillors." Here are a couple of choice quotations from her and colleague Sue-Ann Levy:
Listening to council's debate Wednesday was like something out of Alice in Wonderland... Councillors opposed to Ford called him a 'dictator.' They said what he was doing was 'undemocratic.' ¶ Hello? He ran an election on building subways. Voters gave him an overwhelming mandate. So, he pushes for subways — and that's "undemocratic." ¶ I don't think so, Ms. Stintz. ¶ He's the mayor — elected right across the city. You? You and your breathtakingly massive ego represent only a handful of people in your little corner of the world. — Blizzard
It's no small coincidence that The Woman Who Would Be Mayor (Stintz) and her ragtag group of assorted Useful Idiots in the Moronic Middle (Josh Colle, Josh Matlow, Ana Bailao, Mary-Margaret McMahon, Chin Lee, James Pasternak and the ever indecisive Jaye Robinson) plus the Miller Leftovers would strike while the iron was hot with their Transit City Lite plan. — Levy (who likes the all-caps thing)
Over at the Post, council's vote was characterized as an own-goal for Ford:
"For now, however, the vote stands as a win for common sense — or commoner sense, at least. And it's an own goal for a Mayor who seems to genuinely believe he was elected solely by people who think LRTs are Satan's chariots. Reality has forced Mr. Ford, like any mayor, into many climb-downs. But his death grip on his transit preferences remains, despite daunting feasibility reports on the Sheppard subway and his inability to gain the necessary support of council for his agreement with Metrolinx to bury the entire Eglinton line. He must regret not seeking that support before councillors grew their collective spine." — Chris Selley
The Globe, meanwhile, pointed out just how colossal a loss this was for the mayor:
"City hall veterans are struggling to remember a time when a mayor of Toronto suffered such a humiliating and public setback. Mel Lastman eventually lost a bid to ship Toronto garbage to the Adams Mine. David Miller failed in his first try at passing the land transfer tax. But this — this was on a whole other scale of magnitude. — Marcus Gee
And although not a direct reaction to the vote per se, it's also worth highlighting Peter Kuitenbrouwer's article on former TTC General Manager Rick Ducharme, who believes that Metrolinx is to blame for the disarray that has defined Toronto transit planning over the last few years.
TWITTER REACTION
Discussion
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Would have thought the PC's would have cast him off long ago given how poorly he fared against that goofy grinning mannequin, Dalton.
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2012.CC17.1 - Scroll down to motion 3a - #5. last sentence.
Councillor De Baeremaeker is particularly significant because of how directly a Scarborough line affects his constituents.
An expanded Sheppard subway leading into Scarborough is still going to be studied and discussed.
At the very worst, LRTs are fast, comfortable, attractive, and are a thousand times better than the current SRT.
Scarborough should be pleased that a sound, rational network of public transit is being planned that will work its way towards them in time for their grandchildren to use it. This is what was on the line, because a similarly thorough network of subways was *never going to happen*. Public works simply don't have that kind of money any more.
Yesterday provided plenty for Scarborough residents to be pleased about. LRTs are fucking cool, and everyone is using them these days. Anything beyond is spin, and an attempt to build narratives leading up to a 2014 election.
The only subway being discussed was Ford's proposal for a Sheppard extension to the Scarborough Town Centre - this would be the extension that at last word would require practically selling off Sheppard and giving up all tax revenues for half a century, plus instituting road tolls and reinstating the VRT. Scarborough deserves better than promises and vapour. The Eglinton "subway" is an LRT that is already underground for most of the route, going at-grade east of Laird due to this little valley in the way that would be pricey and annoying to dig under. The SRT already has a ROW for much of its route, and unless the existing plans are wildly different this is where the LRT would go, at-grade or otherwise.
If Scarborough deserves good transit options - and it does - then so do underserved parts of North York.. The plan council approved actually makes this possible, while leaving the door open for furher expansions of LRT and, if the money somehow appears to do so, subways. Subways and trainsets also need maintenance and upgrades; to imply that only LRT suffers from this problem is disingenuous at best.
It's odd watching so-called conservatives and budget hawks go to the mat in favour of destroying years of careful studies and planning in favour of burying one line in its entirety and making eveyone believe in a subway with zero funding or planning. That's respect for taxpayers? I though respect for taxpayers included being realistic when necessary. Vision is great, but as noted above vision without the ability to get the actual resources necessary is just masturbation and sloganeering.
Scarborough needs transit now, not maybe 20 years down the road if someone finds the funding under a couch cushion.
Ford's facebook statement is over-the-top ridiculous, a work of art that deserves deconstruction. I'm not sure how one could pack so many lies and false truths into one paragraph. It needs to be ripped apart before those who don't follow transit believe the lines they are being fed and think that somehow this was a vote against Scarborough or not the best use of available dollars.
You mean council just saved a whole bunch of vibrant communities from being destroyed?
Awesome!
http://twitter.com/DougFord_for_PM
Giorgio Mammoliti!
It's all here:
http://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/2012/01/30/council-votes-transit-city/
The guy has absolutely no understanding of how democracy is supposed to work. He cites democracy (I was voted in by all these people!) when it serves his interests. When democracy doesn't serve his interests, he runs away pissed off.
Indeed, Ford prefers a sort of paternal democracy -- he'll be like your daddy, helping you out when he can, as long as you're really really nice to him. But don't expect it to be a two-way relationship. Don't expect compromise. Ford doesn't know what compromise is.
Can't say I'm surprised, but still... really?
But these construction projects better go as smooth as butter, or it'll be another two generations before another substantial build is attempted in this town.
Underground subways are faster, hold more people, cost less to maintain as they are not weathered and remain in a closed, monitored and safe environment for pedestrians, take up no space on our roadways to free up space for drivers, and pedestrians will be warm and not freeze waiting for above-ground transit and the added bonus is it will cost Toronto tax payers less in maintenance, decrease wait times thereby allowing people to get to their business meetings, entertainment venues and places quicker.
Speaks for itself
Next will be their tax on anyone outside the core that may want to drive their car downtown.
And all the while they refuse to cut services that people in the core enjoy that people in the suburbs to do.
This will be remembered and will guarantee Ford a win next time around. The campaign slogan is simple. If you live outside the core vote for Ford. He's the only person who will listen or cares.
Do your homework!
In the 70's, the TTC's plan was to eliminate Toronto's streetcar system. Responding to pressure from a group called "Streetcars for Toronto", this plan was reversed and the streetcars were kept. As a direct result, the TTC was forced to continue operating a streetcar system that it didn't want; and thirty years later, we have a functional, but awkward and poorly-run, streetcar system; one that compares poorly to every other tram system in the world.
Similarly, yesterday we saw Toronto's city council override both the mayor and Metrolinx, forcing them to build an LRT system that they don't want.
While agreeing the obvious fact that streetcars and LRT are similar but different technologies, forcing a transit agency to build and operate a mode that it doesn't want is likely to result in mediocre, awkward, and poorly-run transit. 30 years from now, Transit City is going to be seen as a disappointment.
What's your plan, scottd, for avoiding this outcome? Or is there some reason why you think you don't need to learn from history?
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1128479--council-vote-map-motion-to-restore-light-rail-plan
See all that green north, and east, of the "downtown core"? Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd your point goes *poof!*
Thanks!
- adding more congestion to our road-ways causing unsafe conditions for pedestrians,
- causes businesses to go bankrupt due the construction light-rail causes,
- costs the tax payer four to six time more for maintenance costs over the life-cycle of the infrastructure being highly weathered (do you not know what salt does to metal - take chemistry, doesn't take a genius to know what weather does to our outdoor public buildings and vehicles - keep in mind - light-rail is outside),
- due to weathering of infrastructure there will be many service disruptions (think about the issues Go-Transit has during winter,
- is slower (time is money) and therefore people won't be able to get around as quickly causing missed meetings, employee lateness, ect.
- we already have cramped subways today and many people have to wait for the next one because there were too many people on the last one. Light-rail holds less people than subways, so tell Torontoians how giving them less space on a transit system in a growing city is intelligent? I'm sure us Torontonians would love to hear your argument for this one. By the way, I have the facts to prove the numbers.
- Freezing! Is it "smart" to make pedestrians, us Torontonians to suffer having to wait in the freezing weather for the NEXT light-rail because of: Technical difficulties due to weather and to add with less capacity we have to now wait FREEZING longer in the cold weather waiting for the NEXT stupid light-rail above-ground rail.
- We in Toronto want subways. Over 80% of us voted for subways when Rob Ford campaigned on getting rid of the pedestrian freezing light-rail garbage other cities around the world have scrapped and for obvious reasons.
- drivers on our roads will have less space and pedestrians will get seriously injured or killed by light-rail, simular to what other cities have seen,
- LASTLY: Mrs. Stintz lied to the board, she lied to the Mayor, she lied directly to her constituents and I sure as hell won't vote her back in. Even at the community center when she was asked specifically, "What is your position on replacing light-rail transit city with subway infrastructure?" She told us all at the community center she, "I'm aligned to with our Mayor's plans for subway infrastructure". She lied to me, to my wife and to our friends and neighbours. She is a liar and we within her ward will NOT vote her back in. She has her own agenda and she is a liar!
Light-rail is not intelligent, it is completely going to waste our time, our money, cause undue heart ache for those who are injured by it as many have in cities who are now scrapping it within their cities and is only going to cost the tax payer and businesses more money. CALL YOUR COUNCILLOR AND TELL THEM YOU WON'T VOTE THEM IN IF THEY DON'T VOTE FOR SUBWAYS.
Fact-less arguments work with Conservatives and uneducated voters, but you won't find may of either on BlogTO. HOWEVER, you are providing some excellent brevity in the middle of this impassioned debate, so maybe you should stick around.
I'm torn.. stay/go.
On an slightly related note: It's strange how easily people forget the past; before there was either a Yonge or Bloor-danforth subways, there were streetcars on Yonge and Bloor.
Can you honestly say it make sense to hold out for an UNFUNDED politicians' promise of subways on Finch, Eglinton and Sheppard? When we know - and it should be obvious (council is bickering over 5M funding to keep bus service at current levels for a couple of months) - that there is barely enough money for even the current LRT plan?
ps. Mammoliti can - but he's an sensationalist turncoat; see his previous comments on just about anything, also consider he has the uncanny ability to suck-up to anyone power at the time.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1128609--mayor-rob-ford-warned-province-would-support-council-official-says?bn=1
as a sidenote: Hudak is saying the premier needs to respect the mayors wishes. who is giving this worm a mic to talk into and doesn't he remember that he had his ass handed to him?
The question now is will ford attempt to waste even more of our time and tax dollars on suing everybody. i have a feeling it may be the crescendo of his public meltdown.
What does this even mean? Ford didn't get 80% of the vote (didn't even get 50%). Or are you saying that 80% of Ford voters did so because of his subway platform (no pun intended). Which would be a bit of a surprise, seeing as how at the time, it was all about the gravy, gravy, gravy. But I would love to see a statistic to back this up!
Chiarelly: Doug and Rob Ford have declined to meet with me to talk about transit issues.
Question: How do you implement a plan the mayor is actively campaigning against? Don't you usually deal with the mayor?
Chiarelli: Uh, yes, that usually is the thing we do. Ford has ignored our formal request to talk about this stuff.
Chiarelli: "When he signed the MOU, he signed a condition in there that he would take it to council."
Ever travel from Bloor to Eglinton. That's not below the surface. F A I L
And Jay - Trolling is the work of small minded people who live in their parents basement in scarborough.
Classic, and absolutely predictable.
Not she didn't. She offered him a nice alternative that could have satisfied part of what he wanted (including Sheppard) but he said no, because he wanted it all. Well he got nothing.
So Scarborough can just blame it on the personality issues and tantrums of Ford.
http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/02/transit_and_planning_experts_rally_against_fords_plans/
Doesn't looks like a bunch of "downtown lefty elitists" voted YES to me.
Not so sure why folks outside of the core are so incensed. You'll be getting more, new transit quicker. More of your neighbours will be served well.
Just because RoFo is so stubborn and "lost" this battle doesn't mean the result is bad. Ever stop to consider that maybe Rob's plan wasn't so smart in the first place?
Once and for all (again) here's the 411 on LRT for silly people like you: http://lrt.daxack.ca/
But at the end of the day... who cares?
Toronto is a running joke, and will continue to be until someone steps in with an iron fist. Until then (Read; never), enjoy your 3rd rate transit system, LRT or not.
Hopefully by the time everything has been said and done "Presto" will be used throughout, instead of at the odd station here and there.
Maybe they will even decide to introduce 30 day passes instead of strict monthly passes... like any normal transit system.
Or or or having the side the platform will be on being announced.
Oh who am I kidding. Keep debating Torontonians. It will serve as a great distraction from the decades it takes to get anything done (poorly) in this city.
Ford's promise to Scarborough was that they would get no higher-order transit. Council has just opened the door to at least one new rail line, possibly two. How is anyone in Scarborough upset about this? There was no "robbery" of a subway since Ford had no plan for a subway to Scarborough.
Please explain.
I understand people don't want to wait in the cold for a bus or LRT on Eglinton, but those people are basically saying they are better than the people on Finch and Sheppard, which would be getting NOTHING in Fords plan. How is it fair to spend all your money burying an LRT on a wide open area on Eglinton and then saying to Finch and Sheppard commuters "screw you, you can wait in the cold for buses that are already full because I'd rather wait underground for my nice new LRT than stand in the cold for a few minutes." It's this kind of rampant selfishness that destroys communities and cities.
The issue is whether the extra $2B it would take to sink the Crosstown LRT line completely underground is a worthwhile expenditure when that money cold be used to help fund other transit projects.
Again: there was no subway involved in Ford's plan.
As for you, and ignorant people like yourself, time is making a fool of you and your anti-streetcar/LRT point of view by influencing groups like these: http://www.lastreetcar.org/
Now, please tell me where you got the idea that we don't need streetcars from again?
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Now, please tell me where you got the idea that we don't need streetcars from again?