City
Developers want subways, but not to pay for them
More subway news comes today in the form of a meeting between Rob Ford and 20 some odd real estate developers, who not surprisingly are all for the construction of a subway extension along Sheppard Avenue East. The problem, like usual, is they're not that jazzed about paying for it. And that's the issue in general, isn't it? Everyone would like more subway infrastructure in Toronto, but few are interested in coughing up the dough to get it built.
Here's what Ford had to say about the meeting via the Toronto Star: "They said 'Let's do it. Every single person at the table — I said if you're against it, let us know — not one person, not one developer said we're against it.'"
This is the equivalent of that Forum research poll question that pits subways vs. LRT without any additional context. If money wasn't a factor, subways are the natural frontrunner in debates of this nature. When the financial considerations are put on the table, it's another story.
What was it that Gary Webster said in getting fired? "We don't recommend spending money you don't have on an asset you don't need." Yup, that's pretty much exactly where we remain on this Sheppard subway extension thing, regardless of who the mayor spins his meeting this afternoon.
Photo by Martin Reis in the blogTO Flickr pool
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Why should I be paying to help Scarborough real estate prices?!
You presume to know what they think? And basing your conclusion on one fact, at least in your thinking, I'd say you're very ignorant. I would say they are self serving, greedy and capitalists. Not that there is anything wrong with making money.
Toronto needed subways 20 years ago. It's time to shut up and start building something to get people from A to B and if LRTs will get us there before 2025, then we should go for LRTs.
Those on the left support paying taxes as long as all benefit, with a very strong support of social programs. The left knows what taxes are for.
I do hope that you will be put your money were your mouth is and place an extra cheque in the envelope when you pays you property taxes
http://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/2012/02/28/tunnel-vision/
Build a downtown relief line along King or Queen (from the Beaches to the Junction) where the true riders of the TTC need it. I can't even use these useless streetcars in the morning for my commute because they're always too full to board. If Rob Ford is so intent on lessening congestion, getting the streetcars off the road would be a good start.
Development fees were one of the few sources of revenue I actually thought Ford could get for this subway. If he isn't willing to stand up to the developers and charge them accordingly for all the extra money they'll make then how can he justify charging citizens?
Subways really need serious amounts of employment and people to make them viable. Assuming all the experts are wrong and the Sheppard Subway can cause that level of investment in the next decade or so, do people in Scarborough realize that any neighbourhoods near the subway are going to drastically change? I feel like most people just think "awesome! I'll have a subway I can walk to!" and they don't think about how their taxes are going to go up to pay for it, how their property values (and thus property taxes) are going to go up because of the subway near them, and how their neighbourhoods are going to get a lot denser. NIMBYs generally don't like it when large condos or towers are built, are they willing to sacrifice their neighbourhoods for a subway?
And for what? As @Learn pointed out in the link to Matt Elliot's page above, Sheppard is at 15% of capacity, while Yonge is at 105% of capacity right now and for the foreseeable future. It makes no sense to waaaaay overbuild capacity on Sheppard. Build the LRT first and then if demand warrants it, change it to a subway 50 years from now. That's how it worked with the Bloor and Yonge lines too - they were streetcar routes first (running in mixed traffic no less, unlike the proposed LRTs that will be in their own right of way).
There is no mechanism to make developers pay. How could the city discriminate between developers of new highrise and homeowners along the same corridor? Or smaller builders with shallow pockets doing quality small urban infill? You can't expect every property owner along the subway line to shell out an arbitrary amount of money because they happen to fall within a given distance to the subway line.
Ford's is a flawed concept. All of the Ford's ideas are ill-conceived. These guys are just really, really dim.
If you are building infrastructure that isn't needed then it becomes a luxury, and people have to pay for luxuries. If everyone wants a subway that is within 5 minutes of them, whether the density warrants it or not, then they have to pay for it.
Please read it, Andrew, and then come back when you can make some sense.