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Why the Eglinton LRT needs to surface: Airport edition

Posted by Guest Contributor / January 31, 2012

Eglinton Crosstown LRT TorontoLike Sisyphus and his boulder, Torontonians seem condemned to forever push transit plans forwards and backwards in a never-ending struggle. Proposals for rapid transit along Eglinton Avenue have been seriously promoted and rescinded for nearly thirty years now, and although work seems to finally be starting on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, the last year has been consumed with debate over the configuration and operation of the line. And with good reason, since besides the ongoing legal and political issues, the entire concept of burying of an entire LRT line is an engineering contradiction in terms, forgoing the lower cost and easy expandability of light rail but retaining the expensive tunnels and stations of a high-capacity subway, sans the capacity.

There are many light rail lines across North America with tunnel segments and underground stations; in fact, the very first "subway" in North America is considered to be the downtown tunnel segment of the Boston Green Line LRT. Similar LRT tunnel segments can be found in cities as far flung as San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, Edmonton, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Newark. Even Rochester has an abandoned one from nearly a century ago. However, these underground portions are always found in either the older, higher-density downtown areas or to cross obstacles such as hills, airports or university campuses. The majority of an LRT line always lies on the surface — that's the entire point of using "light" rail.

In Toronto, the all-underground mandate of Mayor Rob Ford for the Eglinton LRT is being challenged in its eastern portion, where Eglinton is already six lanes wide (two of which are partially reserved as a rush hour busway). The Mayor is not budging yet, despite plenty of media attention on various new proposals and their proponents.

Eglinton CrosstownLost in this discussion has been any mention of what will happen to the western end of the Eglinton LRT. Under the original Transit City proposal, the line would have run in a tunnel until Keele, then continued west on the surface to Pearson airport. This was later cut back to a first phase stopping at Jane Street. Under Mayor Ford's 2011 all-tunnel agreement with the province, the Eglinton line is now to stop underground at Black Creek Drive, more than 1 km east of Jane. While it is important to get the Crosstown line to the surface in Scarborough, it is of equal importance to bring it above ground in Etobicoke for reasons that go beyond current cost savings.

Those reasons are of course Pearson airport and its thousands of workers and millions of passengers. While an Air Rail Link is now under construction, the projected fare is likely to be sky-high and it will certainly not serve airport workers, budget travellers or those trying to get quickly to central and eastern parts of the city. Connecting the Eglinton Crosstown line to Pearson is vital for Toronto's economic health, but it's a goal that will never be met if the Eglinton line remains banished to the costly netherworld beneath the streets.

It's at least 12 km from Eglinton Ave & Black Creek Drive to the terminals, which would mean a cost of ~$3 billion dollars to extend the line (underground LRT construction assumed at $225M/km). If the Fordian all-underground directive holds, and if the western end of the LRT is not brought to the surface in the first phase, you should be hopping on the Crosstown LRT for your hoverflight at Pearson sometime around the year 2112.

Eglinton Avenue WestOn the other hand, nothing could be simpler than a much less expensive surface LRT running down Eglinton West. While the street is hemmed in by existing development up until Keele, the section from Black Creek to the airport is wide open thanks to the long-cancelled Richview Expressway. Land was purchased and protected for this project in the 1960s, and the corridor is clearly visible today on aerial maps. This would allow for ample room for a surface LRT extension in the median of a widened Eglinton Ave.

But would such a physical arrangement be operationally practical? It depends on whether one takes guidance from the comments section of the Toronto Sun, or from real-world examples outside the GTA. It turns out that there are many precedents in North America for such surface LRT lines to the airport in environments very similar to Eglinton Avenue West.

Seattle LRTSeattle may be the closest match, with an LRT that travels in a tunnel downtown but then emerges to run in the median of a four-lane major avenue through a low-density suburban environment on its way to Sea-Tac airport. It is not quite as fast as an all-underground configuration, but it was designed and built in the time it took Toronto to plan and cancel Transit City. And the fare for the 31 minute ride from Sea-Tac to downtown Seattle? $2.75.

Phoenix and San Jose also run LRT down the medians of arterial streets to their airports, and Salt Lake is currently building just such an extension to its LRT service. There's also the option of placing the Crosstown LRT beside Eglinton Ave West in the reserved expressway land rather than down the middle of the street; in this circumstance the configuration would closely resemble the DART line to Love Field in Dallas or the Hiawatha line to MSP in Minneapolis.

To stretch Toronto's meagre transit dollars as far as possible, it's critical that the Eglinton Crosstown be buried in a tunnel only where urban geography and transportation planning require it. The most savings are indeed to be found to the east, and the current Scarborough discussion is life-or-death in terms of saving funding for other transit projects in the city. But do not neglect the future of the western terminus or the shortsightedness of today will mean a bus to the airport along Eglinton for many decades to come. Blow the tanks — it's time to surface.

Guest contribution from Larry Green

Photos from Bombardier, Metrolinx, Google Maps, and johnzebedee

Discussion

68 Comments

Rick / January 31, 2012 at 11:25 am
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Just build something. Please.
PierreNick replying to a comment from Rick / January 31, 2012 at 11:38 am
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The ultimate despear "just build something, please" approach is wrong I think, it has already plagued this city. That's what gave Toronto the Scarborough RT and Sheppard Line..
Nick replying to a comment from Rick / January 31, 2012 at 11:47 am
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@Rick, I agree with PierreNick and further Metrolinx is already in fact buidling the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown line (construction started last fall) but the whole point of this discussion is what happens at the termini of this line. And what can we build elsewhere for the money that is saved by building the LRT at grade on Eglinton where's there's enough space to land a 747. "Just build something" is not a way to wisely spend scarce taxpayer dollars on improving transit for all of Toronto. Nor is "subways is why I was elected".
Drake / January 31, 2012 at 11:54 am
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While a side of roadway alignment through the Richview corridor is ideal, I hope it's constructed more akin to the Ottawa O-Train, routed in a trench with underpasses than with at-grade lighted intersections. For Toronto, Malton and airport-bound commuters using Dixon Road as the right-of-way northwest of Matrin Grove/Eglinton is also a far better alignment than routing the line through the Airport Corporate Ctr and Silver Dart where TTC customer demand was so low they recently cut back service that far west.
Graham / January 31, 2012 at 11:54 am
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You forgot to mention that the City, under the Ford administration, is currently trying to sell off the Richview lands to land developers. If the lands get sold, say goodbye to any sort of cost-effective extension to the airport!

Pro-Ford Comment Trolls / January 31, 2012 at 12:04 pm
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yeah maybe we can build trains ABOVE ground when CYCLESTS learn teh RULES OF THE ROAD (haha when a pig flys!!!) and get more TIM HORTENS than a libary you LATTE SIPPER!!!!!!1 Street Cars block my dads car!!!!!! Thank Lord Jesus that Mike HARRIS stopped the Eglington subway. Mayer Doug FORD will have a mono-rail you'll see leftords!!!!!!!!!!!11
Patrick Smyth (@MisterSafetytoe) / January 31, 2012 at 12:23 pm
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Let's do this in stages. Stop at Keele and the DVP and maybe by then Stintz will have stopped flip-flopping!
Grant / January 31, 2012 at 01:29 pm
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It would be great if people understood that Mayor Ford is not proposing to build any subways. They are LRT lines that may be underground. That isn't the same as a subway in capacity or design. It seems to me that the Eglinton makes sense to be underground near the centre, and above ground where the road is wider and could benefit from additional street level activity, like in the East and West ends. Lets be accurate - neither "subways" or "streetcars" are in any of the proposals.
Paul Barry Karn / January 31, 2012 at 01:34 pm
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I think that cycling is for chumps! I am a fatso that lives in his parent's basement & am 34!
lol replying to a comment from Grant / January 31, 2012 at 01:44 pm
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It would be great if mayor ford understood that he is not proposing subways. The guy is equally as retarded as his 'nation'
Transit Shitty / January 31, 2012 at 01:48 pm
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Transit Shitty what a joke... LRT's will set this city back to the stone age!
Toronto Todd / January 31, 2012 at 02:13 pm
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Yeah, I don't know about an above ground LRT along Eglinton West. There's a reason they almost/should-have built a subway there 20 years ago. The traffic is a mess. Removing lanes of traffic on a narrow street will only make things nightmarishly worse.

I don't like Rob Ford, but my problem with his Eglinton subway is its expense and impracticability. In a perfect world, burying the whole line is a great idea. But at the very least, they should at least leave underground what Transit City had proposed.

As for a line from the airport? It too is a great idea, but won't be much of a benefit for tourists hoping to get downtown. The Airport Rocket would still be the best way to go.
DC replying to a comment from Toronto Todd / January 31, 2012 at 02:18 pm
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Even though the plan has not nearly been set, there will be no net loss of car lanes on Eg. West because of the land reserved for the Richview Expressway. Clearly you didn't even read the article as this is explained.
Teach 101 replying to a comment from Rick / January 31, 2012 at 02:29 pm
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Just LEARN something about LRT before you shoot off your mouth again, please: http://lrt.daxack.ca/

Better yet, travel to the cities that have LRT lines, RIDE them, and experience what LRT is.
Teach 101 replying to a comment from Toronto Todd / January 31, 2012 at 02:35 pm
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The Airport Rocket is crap and needs to die off, painfully. It's an overcrowded vehicle that's hard to keep luggage on, is too long in getting to the airport, and most of the time is as hot as an oven (depending on the bus that's used.) LRT would be much better, and would make Toronto as world class as the cities that already have LRT lines that go to the airport.
Toronto Todd replying to a comment from DC / January 31, 2012 at 02:51 pm
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I did read the whole thing, but the Richview Expressway land does not go between the Allen and Keele, the area that was to have been a subway line.
Jildren replying to a comment from Transit Shitty / January 31, 2012 at 02:52 pm
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I'm pretty sure that you are being funny but if you aren't give your head a shake. underground a subway does not make. it's an LRT. Can we all work to correct the language around this. its still an lrt no matter where it is. the misinformation is getting way out of hand
Yawn Mills / January 31, 2012 at 03:20 pm
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Who cares about Etobicoke? That is where Rob Ford is from. Put a subway station in his house like that Robert Munch story "Jonathan cleaned up".
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 03:22 pm
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You all won't be happy until you turn all our streets into St. Clair. how many businesses have to close and how much congestion is enough for you idiots? Putting an above ground rail line down Eglinton will cause more congestion and pollution. Underground is the only logical way to go.
iSkyscraper / January 31, 2012 at 03:26 pm
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In any other city this would have opened in 2003 as a central tunnel + surface extensions. Yet Toronto, the spiritual home of surface rail transit in North America, can't get a standard LRT done. Mind-boggling.
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 03:43 pm
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Oops, I totally forgot that the Eglinton LRT would run underground downtown, and above ground only in the suburbs where Eglinton is very wide. Sorry I just sounded like a dummy!
Teach 101 replying to a comment from Mark / January 31, 2012 at 03:44 pm
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No Mark, making it surface will be better and less expensive than tunneling through the Don Valley. But I guess your love for the car and public transit 'in its place' just can't give way to surface rail being a part of Toronto life, can't it?
stupidfordsupporter replying to a comment from Mark / January 31, 2012 at 03:46 pm
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once again you are proving yourself to be an idiot, now be quiet the adults are talking.
keven replying to a comment from Mark / January 31, 2012 at 03:47 pm
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I take it you haven't ever been to St. Clair west?
Josh / January 31, 2012 at 03:48 pm
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LRT will cause traffic congestion. There is no way it cannot. We'll be removing lanes from the street for gods sake. Yes, St.Clair is a nightmare if you drive. However, we need to stop driving so much anyway! We need to expand transit so people don't have to drive. The car is not an effective way of moving large groups of people. When the population expands you need to cut down on cars, not make way for more. In NYC, most people take the Subway as it's more effective. LRT will be amazing, but it will suck if you want to drive everywhere.
Al / January 31, 2012 at 03:53 pm
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The airport isn't in Toronto.
Josh replying to a comment from Josh / January 31, 2012 at 03:54 pm
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The only people that want more Subways are people that will drive everywhere anyway. They are not helping anyone with that.
DC replying to a comment from Toronto Todd / January 31, 2012 at 03:57 pm
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Well clearly you have no understanding of the current Eglinton project. Between the Allen and Keele (and beyond), the LRT WILL be underground. Always has and always will.

Again, some research would be nice before commenting.
Justorbs / January 31, 2012 at 04:09 pm
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You get what you pay for. Yes, an above ground LRT is cheaper. But it also causes dinky little LRT cars to congest our streets. We need subways, they move people. LRTs are a dinky solution that doesn't make sense for a city like Toronto.

Obviously we're going to need MUCH more money for subways though. Since Mcguinty won't ever be kicking in any more cash, Toronto has to explore other options. The private sector is one, raising taxes in another. What I'm in favour of is road tolls.

I'd make road tolls where the QEW meets the Gardiner and where the 404 turns into the Don Valley. I wouldn't touch the 401 though. If people that live in the suburbs want to come and earn their paycheck in Toronto every day, pay road tolls. Chicago has a similar system where people entering the city via highway have to pay a fee. Toronto should adopt this system and it will provide a much-needed cash infusion for transit projects.
Rob replying to a comment from Justorbs / January 31, 2012 at 04:20 pm
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Except that Mayor McCheese has said no to any alternative financing. I think most people would agree tolls are the way to go to raise revenue. I'd go a step further and toll the Allen and the 401 (with a 50-50) split with the province. I'd even suggest a toll to enter/exit (whichever works best) the Airport. Another step would be reintroduce the VRT and introduce a sales tax on items bought and sold in the city limits.
Batman / January 31, 2012 at 04:22 pm
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Hey guys, it's me, Batman. I have a secret lair on St. Clair West and I gotta say, those years of construction made me want to do some vigilante justice on City Hall, but now that it's finished, St. Clair is awesome. When I'm not fighting crime and I'm just a regular dude, I ride the streetcar and it blows past all the car traffic. It's so good. When the new Flexity streetcars come in, it's gonna be super rad. And this is coming from a bro who has his own helicopter.

PS - Complaining about stuff on the internet makes you sound fat. And not the awesome kind of fat person who buys my comics.
DS replying to a comment from Justorbs / January 31, 2012 at 04:27 pm
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What he said!
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 04:33 pm
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I used to drive down St. Clair all the time. Now I can't because of congestion, that wasn't there prior to Mihevc's boondoggle of a street car. That is the future of Eglinton unless the morons fighting to save a failed plan are stopped and we get underground transit that will serve the interests of all in the city, not just the car hating socialists.
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 04:39 pm
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Oops! I forgot AGAIN! The section of the Eglinton LRT that corresponds to St. Clair West was always going to be underground anyway. Egg on my face! Sorry guys.
DC replying to a comment from Mark / January 31, 2012 at 04:41 pm
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If ONLY there was another way you could get from place to place on St. Clair. Maybe you wouldn't even have to get into your car, you could just walk a short distance and wait for something completely separate from other cars. Hey! You get some exercise! Wow! And what a trip! So quick! You didn't have to pay for gas either! Wow!
Stephen Harper / January 31, 2012 at 04:43 pm
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As King of All Conservatives, I find it amusing that Toronto's left-wing is preaching financial discipline on this issue, while the Mayor and his yes-men are the ones trying to set billions of dollars on fire. Normally this goes the other way around. Toronto is crazy!!!
Mike Harris / January 31, 2012 at 04:48 pm
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Hi Toronto! It's your former Premier, Mike Harris. In the 90s I cancelled subway construction on Eglinton and had the tunnel filled Rob Ford has a big photo of me in his office. And that is all you need to know about Eglinton. MUA HA HA HAAAA!!!
Grant replying to a comment from Justorbs / January 31, 2012 at 04:53 pm
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For those who want "subways" everywhere, have you even looked at any ridership forecasts, even 20 or 30 years into the future? There are areas that warrant subway capacity, and there are other areas that are not going to get the density increases. Toronto/Ontario has a growth plan that directly new development to certain locations. Suburban areas will never get the density downtown has. Avenues like Eglinton will have mid-rise, and Scarborough will not have high density. It really makes sense to actually look at what transportation planners are doing, and not just keep repeating "subways" "subways". Lets spend the taxpayers money wisely, isn't that what people want?
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 04:57 pm
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The point of my posts is this:

You should always trust what politicians say, especially after they're elected. Mayors never lie, and aren't wrong about anything.

Our civic duty is to support and defend the Mayor, by repeating everything he says. We must do this anonymously, against strangers, on the internet.

Politicians are always smart and never lie!!!
Captain Awesome / January 31, 2012 at 05:37 pm
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Last time I checked, traffic was caused by too many cars. Much of the GTA is a congested mess, even the parts that are a dozen km away from even the slightest hint of a streetcar. Seems to suggest that perhaps we should be trying to develop a way to reduce the number of cars on the road, no? Something like a broad transit network?
Transit Shitty replying to a comment from Grant / January 31, 2012 at 05:40 pm
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By 2020 people will be complaining about how out of date and inefficient these LRT's are because density and population will have increased. Imagine Bloor-Danforth and Spadina-Yonge subways as LRT's now. It takes me 30-40min to get down from Downsview to Union. LRT's will need to stop at the same lights that car intersections have to stop at and not have right of way. Used to work at Queen and Spadina and I'd always walked to Osgoode to take the subway. Spadina streetcar always broke down and stops much more often. Rush hour was a disaster. People are shortsighted to think we don't need subways.
DC replying to a comment from Transit Shitty / January 31, 2012 at 05:51 pm
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1) The Eglinton LRT will only open in 2020
2) Of course population will increase; will density? Will it all be downtown? A subway has very nodal development, LRT has even development, better walkability. Nonetheless, Eg corridor is projected to have about 8000 rides/hr by 2031, needed for a subway = 20000+
3) LRTs don't stop at lights, they have transit priority (different than what u see on some streetcar lines downtown). Clicks a switch further away from intersection to allow vehicle to go throughwithout stopping
4) LRTS will have their own right of way.
5) You can't compare the Queen Streetcar to the Eglinton LRT. There's nothing similar about them, except the use of rails.

Please PLEASE do some research before commenting. The past 5 notes are EASILY found on google. You're just perpetuating horrible falsities. Please only use facts.
1 / January 31, 2012 at 05:56 pm
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this city is the shits
Mark / January 31, 2012 at 06:17 pm
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I don't like to read, but when I do I make sure its the Toronto Sun.
Todd Toronto replying to a comment from DC / January 31, 2012 at 06:33 pm
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Yes, I know that, but on first reading, the post seemed to be suggesting that Eglinton Avenue West SHOULD be a surface route.

Maybe I misread it. In that case, my humblest apologies.
Grant replying to a comment from Transit Shitty / January 31, 2012 at 07:01 pm
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I suggest you have a look at the 2006 Growth Plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe, and the Toronto Official plan. Growth, Density, population increases are being specifically directed towards certain parts of the city, and other parts are being protected from growth, as they are made up of stable, lower density areas called "neighbourhoods". "Avenues" are main streets, and these, like Eglinton for example, will see "Mid-Rise" building forms, NOT hi-rise. The transit city plan is a comprehensively detailed plan that goes WITH the development plan for the GTA. Has anyone who is proposing spending billions on burying LRT routes completely even read the growth policy documents? Even if we had 20 or 30 Billion to spend on real subways (which is not what Ford is advocating - He's only talking about burying LRT) the fact is, if you ask planning experts who know how to revitalize neighbourhoods - Scarborough and Etobicoke would benefit from additional surface activity that above ground LRT would bring to their locations. No plan is suggesting more surface transit for Eglinton in the core, where the street is congested.
Peter Witt / January 31, 2012 at 08:16 pm
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Jesus H. Christ, how can you Fordies still be confusing LRT with streetcars? Do they give five-year olds computers now?

St. Clair is a streetcar route, not LRT. Spadina is a streetcar route, note LRT. Eglinton (and other Transit City lines) are LRT, not streetcars. With their own ROW, sometimes underground or not in the street at all. Just like LRT in the twenty or so other big cities that apparently don't actually exist.

And by the way, streetcars? You should be thrilled that you have them slowing down your SUV because a dozen other cities across the continent are spending hundreds of millions to add them. Turns out they make downtowns vibrant and livable. For the love of whatever Ford Nation considers holy (hot dogs?) try visiting Washington DC, a metro region the size of the GTA, where they are BUILDING FIVE STREETCAR LINES IN A CITY WHOSE SUBWAY SYSTEM KICKS THE TTC'S ASS. Argh.
W. K. Lis / January 31, 2012 at 08:51 pm
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The trouble we have is that our mayor is an automobile-addicted driver who sees transit ONLY from the driver's point-of-view. Rob Ford avoids public transit, would prefer to drive himself in his large gas-guzzling SUV. His streetcar-phobia shows in his denouncing of Transit City but calling them streetcars, when they are not. Cities, including Paris and London, are returning to surface rail (both streetcars and light rail) after finding decades of trying other means of public transit were lacking.
Rob / January 31, 2012 at 10:14 pm
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I understand DRL, but this airport thing is far too premature. I understand how many with satisfactory transit want this. Unfortunately there are many in the city who don't have satisfactory transit.

I think when thinking about an LRT to the airport, one should first consider transit IN Toronto, before outside of the city.

I live in a city with possibly the best airport link in the world. I also live in a city with 10+ million people and a 25 million metropolitan area. A city this size should have a great link. A city with such poor public transit infrastucture as Toronto should not.
Simple logic / January 31, 2012 at 10:58 pm
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At this point it is becoming painfully clear that ford nationalists plug their ears and go lalala every time anyone other than ford or one of his drones speaks. Spread the word! An lrt underground is an lrt! A subway above ground is a subway and a streetcar underground is a streetcar. The language needs to be corrected! These monkeys really believe an lrt above ground becomes a streetcar but when underground becomes a subway.
Breaking news!!!! / January 31, 2012 at 11:29 pm
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Stintz just got thrown under the bus. The wheels are definitely falling off the ford gravy train,
a / February 1, 2012 at 12:05 am
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eternal damnation to whoever designed the toronto transit system in the first place. only 2 tracks per line, uncomfortable seatings, no connection to the airport, and expensive as shit. what the fuck were/are they thinking? toronto is the only major city in the world where you can't do jack shit if you don't have a car, because the transit system is extremely unreliable. even if they start implementing everything i want to implement, this will take at least 15 years. so fuck toronto, fuck mcguinty, fuck ford, and fuck this gay earth
Transit Shitty / February 1, 2012 at 12:19 am
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More breaking news!!! Stintz has signed a 10 year contract with Undercover Boss scrubbing toilets for a waste company and signed her resignation with the TTC.
Toronto / February 1, 2012 at 05:19 am
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I gotta say while ford is a moron and putting the lrt's is clearly a waste of money and disrespectful to the taxpayer. I live downtown I have access to all types of ttc along with getting around on a bike. No One downtown really has any interest in getting into those shitholes scarboring and etobijoke. Let's be frank, these are the retards who voted him in these are the retards who are suffering. If I was a driver I'd be more annoyed because their lack of viable transit is the reason for the cores congested streets but I have a bike and use ttc so really honk away idiots. Transit was a great plan and would have been a huge benefit but really I can't get to worked up about it the only real thing to get worked up about is fords complete disregard for the taxpayer and the process of council but by bosom used to it and have accepted that our city has been put on pause two years nine months. Let's not freak out.
Toronto / February 1, 2012 at 05:21 am
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Bosom=by now I'm. Stupid autocorrect
Sherm Cooper IV replying to a comment from Toronto / February 1, 2012 at 08:40 am
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This is the most sane statement in all of this thread. I agree with you!
Ray replying to a comment from Batman / February 1, 2012 at 09:13 am
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Thanks for the morning chuckle. Well said!
Vote NDP in the next federal/provincial election / February 1, 2012 at 12:08 pm
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This article is correct. We only need to bury a transit line if the geography and density require it. Running underground transit underground in low-density areas will be money losers for decades.
Adam replying to a comment from Jildren / February 1, 2012 at 12:51 pm
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underground a subway does not make - love it
Adam replying to a comment from Jildren / February 1, 2012 at 12:54 pm
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If you're going to bury it, build a bloody subway and be done with it. Don't bury an LRT, and especially don't start calling it a subway. What's that? We can't afford to build a subway? Oh, then maybe we should stick to plan... just a thought...
Andrew / February 1, 2012 at 04:41 pm
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Anyone who is ever driven the 401 west towards the airport will know that a streetcar line along Eglinton is totally inadequate. This is the busiest and most congested section with over 450000 cars a day! We need a serious alternative to driving on the 401 for getting across this city to the huge employment areas around the airport in Mississauga, which means a subway (or elevated subway) along Eglinton is necessary.
Alex / February 1, 2012 at 06:30 pm
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Building Surface LRTs on Eglinton is going to slow down speed by a huge margin due to traffic lights. Look at Spadina streetcars for example, they have their own dedicated lane, but it still moves at snails pace since it has to stop at every light...
mike / February 1, 2012 at 07:46 pm
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lets leave the lrt on the surface and bury Rob Ford (he takes too much space on the surface, slowing down transit projects)
Serge / February 2, 2012 at 12:10 am
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The half-buried Eglinton LRT is the right call, except that it should run to the airport. The saved money should go towards a Finch BRT that, coming from the west:

(1) connects with the new York University subway station, and
(2) keeps on going eastbound to Sheppard subway.

Then, at Sheppard/Don Mills, a similar BRT would keep on going eastbound to Scarborough City Centre.

This would be enough to serve the corridor now, while building demand towards extending the Sheppard subway line in the future.
Thatcherite Guelphophile / February 2, 2012 at 11:39 am
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Another level-headed analysis from the mind-fortress of Larry Green.

The true crime of all this undergound Fordianism is to slather our humble people-moving enterprise with ambiguity sauce, just the kind that tastes great to politicians.

"Solvable is the enemy of electable." - George Orwell's Mom, Carol.

Dr. Shrinker replying to a comment from DC / February 2, 2012 at 04:39 pm
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I just wasted time posting a link to a great information site about LRT, and these idiots can't even read them, or click on them to read them. What else is new? What can we do to convince them?
Dr. Shrinker replying to a comment from Peter Witt / February 2, 2012 at 04:44 pm
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You think that these 'people' (and I use that term lightly) are five year-olds? That's an insult to true five year old kids; these people are one month-olds who have somehow been able to access a computer and talk, but don't know what the frack they're doing.
Dr. Shrinker replying to a comment from Alex / February 2, 2012 at 04:47 pm
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Once again, somebody justifies use of the facepalm....holy fracking shit.

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