City
Should the TTC ban eating on its vehicles?
After a YouTube video of an altercation on the the New York subway over a passenger eating spaghetti went viral, the Metro Transit Authority (MTA) has made a few rumblings about the possibility of banning food in the system. It doesn't look like those ideas are going anywhere, but proponents argue that food and subways just don't mix. Not only is there the issue of inter-rider anger, but organic garbage that doesn't make it to the bins is the stuff of dreams for mice and rats (the latter of which is quite the problem in NYC).
So what about the TTC? When we polled readers a few month ago about what passenger behaviour they found most annoying, smelly food didn't rank particularly high (less than three per cent of the vote). But, then again, there were so many other gripes on the list, I'm not sure if that exercise told us much about what people think of eating on the TTC.
It's noteworthy that the Commission did in fact try to ban the consumption of food on its vehicles many years ago, but as TTC spokesperson Brad Ross explained to me in an email, it ultimately pulled the plug when "a complaint was filed with the Ontario Municipal Board, as there are people, for example diabetics, who do require food at various times to maintain blood-sugar levels."
Believing it would be difficult to manage the exceptions to rule, the TTC opted not to pursue the issue. So I suppose the question becomes, was that the best course of action? Some passengers would need to be exempted, but one wonders if it would really pose that much of a challenge to implement a set of rules in which takes this into account.
What do you think? Do other people eating and drinking on TTC vehicles bother you? Are you sick of Coke cans that tirelessly roll back and forth on the subway floor? Is it worth making an effort to keep this to a minimum? Let's add this to the list of issues that newly appointed Chief Customer Service Officer Chris Upfold has to consider.
Update:
Brad Ross brought up a good point in a conversation about why the TTC didn't (and doesn't) want to pursue a ban: "To make exceptions and/or exemptions for those who do need to eat, the concern, at the time, was one of stigmatizing those people. In general, we hope people are considerate of others and, of course, use the garbage receptacles that are on every platform, elsewhere in the stations, and on almost every street corner. There's really no excuse for littering."
Photo by neuroticjose on Flickr.
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"Are you sick of Coke cans that tirelessly roll back and forth on the subway floor?"
Yes, add more trash receptacles.
what a debacle.
I don't think you should ban eating, but some people need to stop eating stupidly.
...and if you are going to eat your tuna sandwich on the subway, please chew with your fricken mouth closed!
Smells may bother some people, but smells in enclosed areas that passengers can't exit quickly from can severely impact the health of those with allergies.
Since they are most likely to be eating.
Basically they don't condone eating on the TTC, but they'd prefer people eat than faint from hunger, which is actually a fairly common problem on the subway.
It isn't getting banned. Move along.
Rob: Jokes are required to be remotely comedic. Don't be an idiot.
The TTC have balls (yet none at all) to even be thinking about this. I don't like sitting next to someone eating but at the same time, I don't even sit down when I'm on the damn thing anyway.
Worry more about violence and the smoking thing.
- curry (indians, pakistanis et al)
- rice noodle (asians)
- feces (homeless, infants and the disabled)
- fast food (blacks, low-incomes, students and teens)
- free newspapers on the floor(all of the above)
- paid dailies on the floor (educated, established, employed)
Are we done here?
Is it the odour? If that is the case, I have yet to come across a meal that smells as vile as some of the people I come across while riding the TTC, so I do not think the smell is that much of a problem.
Is it the litter? What about all the other litter one comes across on the TTC? For the longest time now I have wondered why the TTC does not put waste bins on its vehicles. At most adding waste bins would decrease a vehicle's maximum capacity by one or two people.
Just how would the TTC enforce this anyway? The TTC is having trouble enforcing regulations it already has. Someone already brought up smoking on TTC property. In addition to that, when is the last time anyone has seen a TTC employee board the Queen streetcar to check to see if everyone has paid their fare? I am guessing they do not do that much because they cannot afford to spend their resources on that. Can you imagine the nightmare they would have checking to make sure that no one is eating on trains, buses and subways?
http://backlinkseotool.com/
Even if this was enforced (which it wouldn't be), what is a TTC Special Constable going to do when faced with an eater? Forcibly take their food? Halt the subway until they turn over the pizza?
Given the amount of respect in the form of spitting, racial slurs, and profanity thrown at TTC workers, there's no point in discussing how this would go over. TTC would be accused of power tripping, public would be accused of causing even further workplace frustration for TTC workers.
Save some of that prime ad space, TTC, and continuously run smart 'Be courteous to your other riders' campaigns. Forever. And never let up on it.
Kind of like blowing a really wicked acid fart. It's rude. *most* people know better than to fart on the subway. You would think most people would know better than to eat their meal on one too....but alas, this society is going down the drain.
Public shamming! Every time someone opens up their lunch box and digs into a large meal everyone on the subway stands up and gives them a long drawn out round of applause.
1. Some people have commutes that last well over an hour. Some people even spend a couple of hours each way travelling on the TTC. Many of these people travel during times when humans are accustomed to eating and consequently get hungry. Yes, the simple answer to this is to take 5-10 minutes off TTC property to eat but, that extra 5-10 minutes could see a person wait an additional 20 minutes for their bus because they missed it due to their need to eat. They then might have to wait even longer because of the additional connecting routes they have to take. Those 5-10 minutes they had to take to eat can easily snowball into reaching their destination at a time that is much greater than 5-10 minutes later. Combine that reality with the reality that many people have children they need to attend to or other jobs they have to be at and this becomes anything but an ideal solution.
2. A major cause of TTC delays is fainting. One of the primary causes of fainting are low blood sugar levels.
Purchase this pack of gum from the Bloor station newstand but DO NOT SWALLOW ANY GUMMY SALIVA UNTIL YOU ARE OFF TTC PROPERTY
Buy this charity PIZZA PIZZA slice but put it in your pocket until etc
etc
etc
etc
This city is run by f*cking morons
However I am all for making the TTC peanut free.
A simple PSA campaign will accomplish that.
If you are going to eat then clean up after yourself.
I eat on the subway, two patties I get at Kennedy station on my way downtown. I throw the paper/envelope/whatever you want to call them and my coke bottle/water bottle/etc... at Bloor-Yonge.
You're in a public place. Leave your shoes on. Don't spit. Don't fart. Don't eat massive meals.
But if you are having a snack between school and work, who is hurt?
(see comment #3)
Take out all of the seats, see how easy it is to eat noodles with chopsticks!!
This, however, does not extend to those who eat smelly MacAnything in-transit. You should rather keep that putrid stuff to yourself.
Oh and @Rob, I believe that is a WOMAN eating noddles in the lead pic... just sayin'
Love you guys : )
Two words: time management
---
Chicago's RTA has a no food or drink rule and from observations it appears 99.9% of people obey it. I have yet to see a ubiquitous TTC-style rolling pop can or McDonalds wrapper on the floor.
We should ban cell phone usage, personal music players & headphones, sneezing and yawning in public spaces as well.
While the TTC obviously can't prohibit people from being rude or slovenly, they can encourage better behaviour via a good PR/ad campaign. And, more importantly, the TTC can crack down on littering, which is ultimately the real issue we're discussing here.
Fine people for littering, put up signs, advertise a "zero-tolerance" policy - and, as some have suggested, place trash receptacles in all TTC vehicles. There are plenty of ways to go about it.
This is in fact what I do when someone who is being discourteous to me (hitting me with their bag after having given them the 'dead' eye, sitting on top of me because their fat rolls from their seat onto mine/me, etc...). I say all is fair on the subway... if you want to take it there and be an asshole, game on.
You people want the TTC to pay for these things without realizing that the TTC is poorly funded.
Eating on transit is low-class. period. A coffee or fruit, or something small; okay. A hot meal from a vendor or take out is just too much. It's a dirty place to start with, and even if you choose to eat in it, it makes some people revolted to have to watch and smell your meal in addition to the rest of the smells already inherent.
Rule or not, it's up to society to truly judge where we stand on it, and here's one vote against it.
Save the food for home, or at a table. not in a seat bombing through an underground tunnel.
LMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh. I'm in tears!
... and yes, that would solve it.
Last I checked, people do not usually puke in garbage bins. Moreover, if there are no garbage bins in the first place, how would a train, bus or streetcar smell any better in the event of someone throwing up?
As for the potential odor associated with trash bins, that problem can easily be solved by using bins with lids and emptying out the trash at the end of each trip.
Hey why not ban cell phones while you're at it. Talk about annoying - get a life!
When you eat on the subway, you wear an invisible sign that says "I'm a vulgarian without self-control". It's presumptuous to think that everyone in your vicinity is oblivious to the stink of your meal or the food-shoving and chomping show you're putting on -- you are a beast of a spectacle.
Eating on the Metro in Paris is illegal and unconscionable.
A granola bar or small snack is fine. Who has a problem with that?
It is when full meals are brought on car that is unnecessary and unpleasant for other passengers.
Sometimes it smells bad. Sometimes you see people eating with their hands, fingers diving into their mouths, sucking off remnants...then pulling the stop cord or crabbing on to the pole for stability.
Not to mention, if it is a day when you forgot your ipod ( god forbid ) you may get the privilege of listening to the sound of crunching, sucking, smacking, and gnawing of various dripping, flaking, spilling foods.
Eating on the subway isn't a big deal, and trying to enforce a ban would be a waste of effort and resources.
Jesus, people, get a grip.
In the grim hierarchy of B.O., halitosis, loudly debated right-wing opinions, toe-crushing, loud iPods, offensive ugliness, fight-starting stares, public Daily Mail reading, nose picking, ear picking, crotch rearrangement, flatulence, spot worrying, tooth picking, hair fiddling, obsessive texting, humming and generally florid shouty psychosis; can't we agree that a quiet nibble on your lunch is pretty low down the list.
Public transport is a barely contained mobile bedlam; a charivari of the angry, uptight, hurried and frankly mental of the city. In my neck of the woods the definition of a polite public transport customer is one who'll eat his lunch without getting his knob out.
Get a bike.
People have to enforce their own behaviour, it also bothers me when people leave their food or wrappers behind. I would purposely ratpack my purse full of garbage until I find the nearest trash can. It shouldn't be so hard to clean up after yourself.
agree with others that attempting to enforce a ban would be difficult to the point of impossible. the same way it's impossible to get people to take. off. their. goddamn. backpacks. on. a. crowded. effing. streetcar. or. move. the. eff. back.
have also had coffee perilously close to landing in my lap several times this week.
let's just be a little considerate please people.
I saw some asshole eating a SOUVLAKI DINNER on the subway, sandwiched between two unfortunate souls on one of those three-seater sectionals. Of course, he's oblivious to the fact that he's being an asshole.
Unfortunately, for the TTC, jursidiction rests with the OMB, which turned down the one TTC request I'm aware, prior to my tenure as TTC CMO in 1997.
Take off your backpacks during rush hour please!
There may not be trash receptacles on TTC vehicles, but it doesn't take much energy to hold on to your garbage until the next stop. Subway stations have garbage/recycling receptacles, as do city streets, building lobbies, malls, etc.
Seriously, folks. How lazy and disgusting do you have to be to dump your half-eaten container of "oodles of noodles" on the subway floor? Hold on to it for a few minutes. It's not going to kill ya (although your apparent sloth and gluttony might).
Commercial profit groups must use a permit to photograph on TTC property.
As well, this portly oriental did not consent unless he/she accepts responsibility for being portly on said grounds.
Has this come up in the past? This can't be the first photo of such nature on blogto.
Also: chicken balls are native to Asia. They're native to North America. The more you know.
Anyone can take pictures of the TTC, whether off or on-TTC property, there is no specific TTC by-law prohibition against taking pictures that I'm aware of—as long as you're not interfering with TTC operations—although there may be secondary Toronto, Provincial, Federal (by)laws that prohibit or limit what, when, where you can take certain pictures and what permissions you made need to publish them (i.e. personal releases, the HTA—e.g. standing in roadway or taking a flash picture directly into a nearby TTC driver's eyes while they're operating a vehicle—just as laser pointers being aimed at plane/helicopter cockpits are Federally prohibited—a criminal offence, I believe).
To film (commercial or movie shoot) on the TTC requires a TTC permit, including review & pre-approval of the storyboard/script for any material objectionable to the TTC that would likely reduce rides or increase rider concerns, fears of riding the TTC (e.g. subway suicides, assaults, a person being pushed off platform to the platform, or in front of a bus etc.).
Some TTC Operators assume (erroneously) that "filming" on the TTC prohibits you taking pictures on the TTC and they may order TTC riders to stop taking pictures. If so, politely inform them they are misinformed, pictures are allowed, only filming requires a TTC permit.
In the recent backlash over riders snapping candid pictures of TTC drivers texting/using cell while operating vehicles the TTC pointedly did not state riders didn't have the right to take the pictures, rather requesting they refrain from doing so as a courtesy and report the driver to the TTC (in fact it's a bother to report vehicle Route, Run number, operator badge/description, time, etc. by phone or e-mail and it's less effective without corroborating evidence when the operator's conduct is reviewed by a supervisor for potential punishment).
It'e been awhile since I was TTC CMO and was responsible for filming on the TTC, so I'm not sure where digital cameras with video capabilities would fit in. I suspect that amateur videos taken with a consumer digital camera would be allowed, as long as there is no auxillary light unit that could impair or blind a TTC driver or guard's vision as they are operating a vehicle, particularly when turning or entering a subway/bus platform.
This place earns money, and is using a non-consenting photo in a place that requires a permit to shoot.
This is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
<i>No person shall operate for commercial purposes any camera, video recording device, movie camera, or any similar device upon any vehicle or premises of the Commission without authorization.</i>
I can't find a ttc reference myself but is this valid?
This doesn't seem to apply in this case since the original photography was not for commercial purposes, but instead a photo used for commercial purposes (without model release which is still a no-no).
The key phrase is "for commercial purposes" so if you have an obvious TV commercial or movie "film" shoot, or even a photographic shoot with staged lighting/backgrounds needing set-up they would have to be reviewed by the TTC's Filming Coordinator, to ensure it wouldn't disrupt TTC operations or customer flow, safety or sully the TTC's image or make riders fearful or less likely to ride the TTC—before the TTC would authorize it and provide dated/timed property passes to access the TTC (usually a subway station).
In some cases the company or producers appeal a negative decision to not allow filming and it goes to Senior TTC General Managers or even TTC Commissioners in a few rare cases to arbitrate. It's a real art in trying to being consistent, fair and transparent in applying film standards, as the creative community is after all is very creative in thinking of ways to skirt them!
As long as there is no commercial purpose in shooting a picture or video, then an individual has the right to take them, with the proviso they're not interfering with TTC Operations, safety or passengers.
I've heard of situations where TTC Operators or Supervisors have invoked safety or operational concerns where there clearly are none —in an attempt to intimidate and discourage otherwise innocent amateur photographers and film buffs who simply the the transit sub-culture.
It would be a real stretch for the TTC to legally argue that because a picture may be or was later posted or reposted on a for-profit "commercial" blog, photo or video site (e.g. The Star.com, G&M.com, Flickr, YouTube, etc.) that the picture/video is in fact for commercial purposes and is therefore prohibited without prior approval.
The TTC loves blog posts, pictures and videos that cast the TTC image in a positive light and naturally cringe when they're cast in a negative light. That's only fair play—you take the bad with the good!
I can't count the number of times at Scarborough Town Centre that I've touched escalator belts with a streak of cheese along them or attempted to hold onto a bar that was coated in Dorito crumbs. Absolutely, positively disgusting food eaten by uncivilized animals.
I also forgot to add, from Apple's Mac OS X Dictionary, its definition of "Commercial" which pretty clearly excludes any amateur transit and rail fans taking pictures and video on the TTC!!:
commercial |kəˈmər sh əl| (abbr.: comm.)
adjective
1 concerned with or engaged in commerce : a commercial agreement.
2 making or intended to make a profit : commercial products.
• having profit, rather than artistic or other value, as a primary aim : their work is too commercial.
3 (of television or radio) funded by the revenue from broadcast advertisements.
4 (of chemicals) supplied in bulk and not of the highest purity.
I didn't know that arrows mean don't include in HTML, so back to quotation marks!
I've seen people eating snacks and it's no problem at all, but I've also seen people slopping down big macs and it's kinda gnarly.
manners.
I don't even like to use my cell on the subway, let alone chow down.
And seriously, what's up with the orange peels? Out of all the garbage I see, orange peels have got to be the most common on the streetcars. A banana peel is messy, so I could understand being an ass and leaving that, but an orange peel?! Come on!
BlogTO earns revenue.
BlogTO must now follow TTC commercial rules.
BlogTO must now have consent from people in their photos.
Seeing food on the subway for the first time was a real culture shock and kind of offensive. If you're not going to finish that burger, at least throw it away.
I wouldn't mind seeing a crackdown on food, smoking, and handing out literature on the TTC.
Oh, wait a minute..
That does not sound too tolerant to me.
With the subway this would be made much more difficult, but simply having the rule deters most people, and for those who do eat strongly encourages them to clean up after themselves. More than anything I think it is an issue of litter. Loose papers on a seat are one thing...but no one wants to pick up, or sit near food soiled packaging, or constantly see coffee cups and cans littered around.
If TTC wasn't stretched far beyond capacity cleaning subway cars wouldn't be an issue. But because it is, service would be worse if they attempted to clean the cars more often because there are not enough replacements to keep services running smoothy and at the status quo.
This simply isn't a viable option if they want to keep up current services, while attempting to expand so the system isn't overloaded.
I think banning just food is fine.
Go Toronto!
Ride your bicycle instead, whiners.
Washington has an established no-food policy that doesn't seem to be called into question; Singapore is a much more rule-abiding place.
I wouldn't mind a crackdown on gum wads here, though. And cigarette butts.
Instead of banning food on the ttc i am interested to install gigantic fume-hoods over each seat so we don't have to smell anything, except our own smug farts!
Mike / March 27, 2011 at 12:57 PM
Singapore's subway system has all food and drink banned and the people seem to get on fine. The cars are all spotless and I didn't really hear complaints that people are being inconvenienced.
In fact, your absurd attempt to derail the discussion through logical fallacy is not unlike what happens in places like Singapore with strictly enforced consensus, where certain subjects magically become off-limits when they're too sensitive and exaggerated arguments like 'If we allow eating and drinking on public transport like Canada does, what's next?' are used to short-circuit the debate.
Washington, DC, banned eating and drinking from its Metro but homosexuality and porn continue to be legal in the district, so it's not all or nothing.
Allowing eating and drinking on the TTC, but not smoking, spitting or littering, works for the TTC and for Toronto. It's the enforcement that needs improvement.
I find it hard to believe that there are as many fainting spells that affect service as some of the posts suggest, but assuming there are, here is a solution that not only addresses this problem, but another: ban eating on vehicles, BUT replace the current trip-based transfers with time-based transfers. Anyone needing a bite to eat can exit at the next stop and grab a bite to eat and then continue their trip without extra cost.
This even permits going to the wash room without having to use those wonderfully clean washrooms in the odd subway station!
Why does this work in Berlin? Because it's a civilised, sophisticated, cosmopolitan city. People take great pride in their city and clean up after themselves. In the rare event that they don't, the transit authority actually cleans the system throughout the day (even the washrooms are impeccable). Alcohol isn't viewed as something scary that has to be restricted and controlled at all cost. People here don't drink swill beer to get wasted, they drink a nice beer to relax.
Not to mention that there is more transit in Berlin itself than in all Canadian cities combined (then multiplied by 2). All U Bahn, S Bahn, RE, Trams are electric. All buses (articulated, double decker, you name it - they've got it) run on natural gas. One automated fare system that runs across all systems in Metro Berlin. No turnstiles, all door boarding. Runs 24 hours (like the bars). All modes are completely integrated, fast, clean, efficient, modern, affordable, almost eerily quiet. An absolute joy to use.
It's both refreshing and disturbing to be here. Refreshing to see what cities can be like when citizens are treated like adults instead of children and people are willing to pay the necessary amount (tax) to establish such a system. Disturbing to be reminded of what a backwards-ass, sh*thole of country Canada is becoming. I can't even imagine what Berliners must think when they come over here. It's embarrassing to even think about it.
If the people of Berlin are so offended by what they see here, perhaps they should not come here at all. Or better yet, they should write to the mayor of Toronto and tell him what's wrong instead of having their noses in the air like snobs.
The U bahn and S bahn run 24 hours on weekends and holidays only. During the week they're replaced by night buses which mirror the routes from 1-5 am. The trams, metro trams and metro buses also run 24 hours as do the regional trains and buses.
I don't know what Berliners (or anyone else in Europe or Asia or...) would think about our third world transit and ridiculous 'ban everything' approach, I just know how I would feel if I were in their shoes. Yours is the typically Canadian reaction these days - find a million excuses why we CAN'T do something then get all smug and defensive when it's pointed out what CAN and IS being done in other countries. No wonder that nothing ever gets done.
Tell people with better transit not to come here? Brilliant strategy! I hope that Cleveland, Buffalo and Detroit can fill the tourist void.. until they too have better transit than we do.
Gracious guests do not insult the host's lacking qualities, but try to make the best of what is there. Besides, we have had prominent and non-prominent people come to visit, and the usually enjoy themselves here (some visiting more than once) and they've always praised Toronto highly. As for what the three U.S. cities have in terms of transit; they probably don't have to put up with silly people who vote for dumb-asses like Rob Ford or the dumb-asses at Queen's Park, or with people who probably really don't vote like they're supposed to but can yet whine their heads off as if they do.
The sad thing about fare media and payment systems here is that the TTC has probably known about better solutions for years but preferred to wait forever until something became cheaper or better, when technology simply become obsolete or unfeasible over time instead. Thus they justify doing nothing.
Visitors probably think our transit system is quaint, especially if theirs did away with tokens years ago.
The point I'm trying make is that I would be embarrassed if anyone I've met here were to come over and ride around on our dilapidated transit system. I would go so far as to avoid taking them anywhere near a subway station (not difficult considering there are only 2.5 lines). I'm sure they wouldn't say it but they couldn't help but think "Wow, what a filthy, decrepit piece of shit".
It's time to get off the pot and do something before we fall even further behind and contemplating an eating ban
accomplishes nothing.
There's nothing wrong with eating on the TTC (which is why there is no regulation or law against it) as long as it's not overly messy and doesn't inconvenience other riders in terms of space. Be thankful that we're allowed to make that kind of decision for ourselves.
And personally, I can't wait for those new subway cars with the tray tables and the meal service on the longer stretches.