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Will Mayor Miller's endorsement of Joe Pantalone make any difference?

Posted by Derek Flack / October 6, 2010

Joe Pantalone, David MillerMayor Miller's official endorsement of Joe Pantalone earlier today may be just the thing that the deputy mayor's campaign needed going into the final three weeks of the mayoral race. With the last Nanos poll still showing the progressive candidate at 16.8% -- which is a distant third to Rob Ford and George Smitherman -- there's little doubt that Pantalone needed a jumpstart of sorts. And yet, given the current climate of the race, I can't help but think Miller's approval will make little difference come October 25.

It's really anybody's guess how this endorsement will play out at this point, but it might be worth recalling the degree to which Pantalone sought to distance himself from the current mayor earlier in the race. When we interviewed him in early June, he had this to say about their relationship: "He's the mayor; I'm the deputy mayor...We have mutual respect; but I can't say we're friends....I think he's a smart guy; his heart is in the right place, but there's been a failure of communication [with Torontonians] unquestionably."

That's not particularly damning, and the two politicians certainly don't need to be friends to have similar philosophies about how the city is run. But, when prodded, Pantalone continued by saying, "When you're a leader you have to be ahead of the people -- that's what leadership is all about, and you have to show the way. But you can't be so far ahead that you distance yourself from the people...I think the distinction is that I'm more grassroots."

Given the degree to which Rob Ford's campaign has capitalized on the rhetoric of "change" that's been a rallying cry throughout this election, Pantalone's prior reticence to affiliate himself too closely with Miller was hardly surprising. If the prevailing sentiment amongst voters is that the city is broken -- even if, in actuality, that's a straw man argument -- then tethering his campaign to the person putatively responsible for the city's ills just doesn't make much strategic sense. The possibility also exists that Pantalone's wholehearted acceptance of Miller's endorsement will come off as a desperate flip-flop in the final stages of a flagging campaign.

But, perhaps the more interesting question today's announcement raises is why Miller waited so long to make this move. Despite the possible negatives mentioned above, other polling numbers suggest that Miller is far more popular than the current mayoral candidates have made him out to be. An Ipsos Reid poll released in late August revealed that, were he in the race, David Miller would likely win the upcoming election by a comfortable margin. Perhaps that's merely the power of incumbency (or pseudo-incumbency, as the case may be), but wouldn't that have been the a ripe opportunity to give the Pantalone campaign a shot in the arm?

Left this late, the likelihood is that today's endorsement won't propel Pantalone into the thick of a race that he's signficantly behind in. Miller's own campaign in 2003 may lead some to believe otherwise, that there's plenty of time for the deputy mayor to make a surge, but with the Smitherman camp attracting the support of those who believe that he's the only candidate who can prevent a Rob Ford victory, it's hard to believe that Pantalone will be able to use this endorsement to alter the trajectory of the race in any significant way.

In fact, of the two endorsements announced in the last 24 hours, Joe Mihevc's boost of Smitherman will almost surely prove to be more important than Miller's support of Pantalone. The progressive councillor's decision to get strategic with his endorsement -- not to mention Sarah Thomson's decision to drop out of the race last week -- lends powerful credence to the notion that the election has been reduced to two players, neither of whom is Joe Pantalone.

Photo by Pedro Marques

Discussion

68 Comments

michael / October 6, 2010 at 01:27 pm
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Yesterday Toronto was Voted " The Most Livable City In The World
And The Greenest In North America" Lets keep it that way and Vote Joe!
: ( / October 6, 2010 at 01:27 pm
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So sad. Smitherman or Ford. Such a sad choice.
Erik replying to a comment from : ( / October 6, 2010 at 01:43 pm
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Well, um, no. You can still vote for Pantalone.
CandyVag / October 6, 2010 at 01:47 pm
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Go Pants!
Methos / October 6, 2010 at 01:47 pm
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Can the fact that his campaign has almost completely ignored the issues that have defined this election have anything to do with it? After last summer's strike, bloor st redesign, st. clair reconstruction, etc there's a large perception (either real or perceived) that the city isn't being efficiently run. He's only meandered about planting trees and blaming mike harris for all of the city's problems.

He's toast.
marlon / October 6, 2010 at 01:49 pm
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Again, the only thing Smitherman has going for him is that he is not Ford. Joe Pantalone has many great ideas. Also he is not going to sell off the city's assets and leave thousands of people unemployed. Pantalone will work to make this city green, progressive, employed and accessible. Hopefully this will give a lot of the people who are voting for Smitherman strictly out of a fear of Ford the confidence to vote for who they actually want to vote for: Pantalone.

I
AV / October 6, 2010 at 01:50 pm
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The saddest part will be the announced voter turnout (20% maybe?) after this election cycle is over. People either don't care or can't bring themselves to vote for one of these "candidates".
SAG / October 6, 2010 at 02:06 pm
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No.
Cony / October 6, 2010 at 02:06 pm
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It will make a difference - turn even more people off Joey Pants
Hmmm / October 6, 2010 at 02:10 pm
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To answer the rhetorical headline: yes, it will make a difference, though not to Ford or Smitherman. It will put the final nail in the coffin of Pantalone's campaign. Nothing like the seal of approval from your ex-boss whom everyone dislikes to keep that fading campaign going.

Pants is Miller-lite, and while he is less filling on our pockets he doesn't taste great except to his union buddies.
Marlon replying to a comment from Hmmm / October 6, 2010 at 02:18 pm
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All these maroons on here saying it'll be the nail in his coffin and the rest are the same dopes who are voting for Ford anyway. You guys are concerned that Ford will be up against a guy with a clean record instead of smitherman. I understand your concern
Voting Guy / October 6, 2010 at 03:10 pm
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Up with Pants!

And keep in mind that most of the polling sizes are small numbers (400 in some, 1000 in others), and the polling is done through land line phones, I'd like to think that the numbers are actually more realistic for Pantalone than is being given credit for.

Who has phone land lines? Mostly families and home owners who are admittedly more in the Rob Ford demographic anyways.

And to those thinking David Miller's backing is a bad thing, according to a poll done a month or so ago, if he were to run again, he would win. Again, Im not sure the polling size to know the validity behind it and how much it will change the vote, but I can honestly say that in my general discussions on the election, Pants fever is picking up!
Martin replying to a comment from Voting Guy / October 6, 2010 at 03:25 pm
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Based on walking around between downtown and the west end, I've seen more signs for Pantalone than for any other candidate. So I agree - I think he's got more support than these polls are indicating. And I bet that one-on-one he'd have just as a good a chance to beat Ford as Smitherman or any of the other non-Ford candidates. So maybe people are calling for the wrong person to drop out...
Bubba / October 6, 2010 at 04:04 pm
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Pants Good!
Mark Boyle / October 6, 2010 at 04:07 pm
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Panties is a joke. This troll would be an insult to the people of Toronto as mayor.

He's a distant third to two better candidates. In fact, Joey is a non-issue in this election.

The Miller endorsement will only assist Ford --- GO ROB!
The Shakes / October 6, 2010 at 04:18 pm
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I actually like Pantalone much more than i like Miller. Because unlike Miller and Giambrone, he's not an arrogant, self-congratulating, condescending know it all. Frankly a Miller endoresment turns me off of him a bit. But at the end of the day i am going to vote for whoever has the best chance of beating Ford. So if Pantalone gets to #2, he gets my vote, if he remains way back in third he doesn't.
Dave / October 6, 2010 at 04:19 pm
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On a day when homicides in Toronto are up 10% YTD over last year the last thing we need is another one of David Millers cronies elected as mayor later this month. The only candidates that will take care of this issue are Smitherman or Ford. Pantelone is the WRONG choice - SOFT on crime and HARD on the wallet.
Jesse Ewles / October 6, 2010 at 04:24 pm
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Go Pants Go! Let's see what the polls say on the 20th before we start strategic.
scott / October 6, 2010 at 04:32 pm
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Joe has a Great Record after 30 years on Council- Smitherman realized he could not possibly be premier of Ontario after the E-health Fiasco so he decided to run for Mayor -
Smitherman is the gay Rob Ford- backed now by Mike Harris goons and has Michael Bryant
who killed that cyclist last year working for him. i own a large business downtown and meet up to 500 people a week and i have not met one Ford supporter. Miller is still extremely popular I can only see this as a plus for Joe. ps i support the gay community but Smitherman
I do not support
LJ replying to a comment from scott / October 6, 2010 at 04:39 pm
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So Scott claims to meet "500 people a week" and has yet to meet a Ford supported, yeah well I met 3 people downtown this week who do support him. I dont belive your numbers Scott, unless your "large business" is actually a few hot dog stands, then it makes sense.
Bob-Omb / October 6, 2010 at 04:51 pm
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So Pants stays in and splits the anti-Ford vote and Ford wins in a landslide on the 25th.

Terrific ...

dogs! replying to a comment from LJ / October 6, 2010 at 04:52 pm
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why would a hotdog stand make sense?
Bodie / October 6, 2010 at 05:24 pm
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When's the last time a sitting Mayor endorsed a candidate to replace him/her? Usually they stay above the fray.

Oh well, wallowing in the shit is par for the course with David Miller.
scott / October 6, 2010 at 05:30 pm
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in Reply to L J My Business is in the Hospitality Sector Much Higher End than "Hot Dog Stands" Maybe that is why I do not meet Ford supporters as i have never been a Patron of a "Hot Dog Stand" I have no reason to be dishonest here - Just Sharing my Experience as i am shocked that the media keeps stating how much Ford is in the lead but i have not personally met anyone who supports him on the contrary the people I have spoken with about the race are appalled at the notion of Ford being the Front Runner.
Mike W replying to a comment from Bob-Omb / October 6, 2010 at 05:56 pm
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I have the same concerns over him splitting the anti-Smitherman vote.

Although aside from a few aspects of his platform he's not a bad candidate.
Mike W replying to a comment from scott / October 6, 2010 at 05:57 pm
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I'm kinda shocked you haven't met a Ford supporter given how much media attention there is on how he is the frontrunner (supported by professional polls, not personal anecdotes).
over here / October 6, 2010 at 06:06 pm
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Vote Pants. Go Pants.
Voting Guy replying to a comment from Bob-Omb / October 6, 2010 at 06:11 pm
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Bob-Omb - if you're worried, remember its not too late to decide to change your vote to Pantalone.
dave / October 6, 2010 at 06:39 pm
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joe pants makes sense. me and the rest of scarborough feel this way. smitherman and his crooks are very powerful and manipulate the media, some how his e-health scam hasn't been front page ammo. really, how could smitherman be in 2nd place, most of his supporters just live east of yonge st???
gadfly replying to a comment from scott / October 6, 2010 at 06:43 pm
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Wow, you have time to talk to 500 different people a week, speak about politics, ask them who they support and manage to run your business? Fantastic. (Look up the word - truly 'fantastic.')
Matthew / October 6, 2010 at 06:44 pm
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I've seen a number of people who dislike Ford but haven't read enough about the other candidates to make a choice yet. Remember polls have found still a large percentage of voters undecided, the last one from late September had it at 17%.

So for those voters, either for positive or negative, a David Miller endorsement could both help and hurt Joe Pantalone.

However, Joe's ad campaign isn't helping, as he should be pushing what makes him different from other candidates. Example from this endorsement, I've seen more people talking about that fact that he's the only candidate that supports Transit City.
gadfly / October 6, 2010 at 07:09 pm
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... and yet 19 tickets were sold over at the Canadian Club. The event had to be cancelled. LMAO. Just goes to show you that if you stick a microphone in someone's face (or hold a clipboard and write their remarks down), people will say what they think you want to hear, but ask them to open their wallets...well, that's an entirely different matter.
Hmm replying to a comment from Martin / October 6, 2010 at 07:13 pm
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A clean record means nothing to me when I'm out of pocket in the same fashion as under Miller. And we all know (you included) who Pants' buddies are and how much they cost to keep happy, to say nothing of all the costly wefare state programs he'll foist on us.
realest / October 6, 2010 at 07:37 pm
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Im voting for Pantalone. He cares about the whole city. Arts,Culture youname it. Toronto is a world class city and having Ford leading it would destroy what we have. He would cut services and we will be facing Mike Harris number 2.
People Ford is counting on the old white cranky voter and the message he is spewing is for them because they vote. If you are young and care about your city get out and vote for Pantalone
Steve replying to a comment from michael / October 6, 2010 at 08:03 pm
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What is this city's obsession with everything being green?
KL replying to a comment from Dave / October 6, 2010 at 08:04 pm
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I'm with you 100%. Ever since Canada changed its name to Liberia and imported all of its people, problems, and debt, I've wondered which (formerly) Canadian metropolis would be renamed Monrovia. It turns out that this 10% increase in gang related, drug related, and domestic homicides that don't affect the average law abiding citizen, made selection much easier.

We need a mayor that's tough on crime, resilient to corruption, and not afraid to use his enemies entrails as fencing.
Steve / October 6, 2010 at 08:15 pm
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I agree KL. It's time to get these out to lunch liberal jackasses out of power. I'm conservative but even I think Rob Ford is an idiot and not the right guy to lead this city, however, he will probably slash a lot of useless social programs which is a good thing.
Steve / October 6, 2010 at 08:17 pm
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Torontonians also need to lose this world class city mentality. If we were world class we wouldn't have to constantly address it. World class cities have world class architecture/infrastructure. Something Toronto lacks immensely. Multiculturalism doesn't make a city world class.
gonzo / October 6, 2010 at 09:20 pm
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Chicago gets the former white house chief of staff.

We get Chris Farley, Joe pants and the host of who wants to be a billionaire.

FOC.
KL / October 6, 2010 at 09:23 pm
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I thought it was obvious that I was being sarcastic, but if you drew that from my post, more power to ya.
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:02 pm
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What this city's obsession with being green? I feel like you aren't serious but if you need it explained to you here are a few reasons. Oil is scarce. It makes more sense for us to get produce from local farmers than to have it trucked in from Californian sweatfarms. Also trees provide fresh air. Sun's energy is cheaper to harvest with much less of the long term damage to the planet than oil. As I write this I'm convinced you're taking the piss so I'm stopping now but I wouldn't put a lack of understanding for the desire for green past you based on your other statements. Go pants!!!
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:06 pm
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Also the world class thing isn't based on multiculturalism slowpoke. It's events like tiff, nuit Blanche, pride and everything else that makes this city so packed with traffic congestion as a result of everyone wanting to be here.
jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:16 pm
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Also we don't need to 'constantly address' our worldclassness, lol, I know. It's just coming up a lot at the moment because we are in election time and a the current frontrunners want to take away the things that make us world class.
Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:21 pm
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The whole green initiative is so overblown. It's just propaganda used to control the way people think the same could be said for global warming. What difference does it make whether garbage bags are plastic or biodegradable when they end up in a garbage dump? How does that effect the planet as a whole. when garbage is isolated from habitable areas? Wouldn't the concept of garbage landfills in general be just as harmful for the planet? I'm not saying being green isn't completely bad. Certain aspects such as Enwave's deep lake water cooling system are interesting and a good alternative form of energy but worrying about how much hydro you're using isn't something people shouldn't be so concerned about.
Steve replying to a comment from jildren / October 6, 2010 at 10:26 pm
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How does Tiff, Nuit Blanche and pride make us world class? Seattle has a film festival too but it's not a world class city. Nuit Blanche lasts one night of the year, and pride isn't something most people in this city as in favour of. It caters only to gays and liberal/affirmative action individuals. What about the rest of the population?
Jildren / October 6, 2010 at 10:32 pm
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That's fine if you don't believe in global warming but I never mentioned that. I'm talking about oil being scarce. Oil being expensive. Trees providing fresh air or would you deny smog being a problem. Solar power being a more affordable resource. Getting produce from local farmers instead of foreign Countries that rely on slave labour and send our money out of the country while putting our own people out of business. It's not about global warming it's about efficiency.
Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:42 pm
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There's definitely a smog problem and yes, like I said, certain aspects of 'being green' are good but too much of it is nonsense, such as waste bags. As for oil, we should be able to convert plastic back into oil.
jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 6, 2010 at 10:45 pm
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Those were a few random examples. Also settles film festival doesn't measure up to torontos. Let's not kid ourselves. Pride is enjoyed by millions! It isn't just the gays and activists. World pride is coming here because we have one of the best. I don't want to go on because it all sounds very arrogant but being amongst the most livable, most expensive to live, most rude (trying to be humble) Toronto makes pretty much every world list of cities. That's what makes it world class. The entire world is familiar with Toronto and has a respect for it. I'm stopping now because the arrogance is making myself sick. But it's true!!!!
jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 6, 2010 at 11:03 pm
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Well pantalone is big on planting trees to combat smog. Making sure there is a connection between local farmers and the public sector so we don't send our money to other countries and put our own out of business and investing in things like solar power. I don't buy all green propaganda as the technology is very new but those are all things I agree with which is one of the many reasons I and many others will be supporting Joe pantalone. Look into him.
Steve / October 7, 2010 at 12:37 am
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Rob Ford looks like he'd be big on planting trees. He has a green thumb. I've seen it. It was probably Smarties smears though. I'm also big on planting trees. Do the parks department plant any new weeping willow trees? Two old, huge beauties in my local park were beaten to a pulp in a recent storm. I know the city is trying to cut down on invasive species such as Norway Maple. The ravine behind my house is loaded with them. Trees aren't enough to make me vote for Pantalone though. Maybe if Jesse Ventura throws his support behind I'll have a change of heart.
Sean / October 7, 2010 at 02:31 am
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HA HA

Pantalone gets endorsed by Miller. Buh bye Pantalone, your career is toast!!!
Taxpayer / October 7, 2010 at 06:27 am
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A Miller endorsement is the kiss of death.

I still can't believe this sad group is the best this city can do. Every one of them is an embarrassment.

Why can't we for once have respectable candidates instead of buffoons every election year.
Ryan L. / October 7, 2010 at 07:37 am
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Pants should have distanced himself from Miller early on. Miller is just poison to his campaign
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 7, 2010 at 08:55 am
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Yeah eliminating thousands of jobs and extending the unused sheppard subway boondoggle is more important I guess
scott replying to a comment from gadfly / October 7, 2010 at 04:15 pm
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in response to Gadfly I own the business. I have people who Run it with/for me. I am regularly on the premises and speak to many people and since this election is such a hot topic, it is usually the first topic of conversation. Fantastic- Yes
o.k. / October 7, 2010 at 04:35 pm
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Ive followed politics long enough to understand it doesn't matter what 'side' of the paradigm you are on; you're either a Union booster or a Corporate booster.. you can't get elected without support from one of the sides; both interests have too much power and can be poisonous.

I do like Joe pa because he is the only candidate who is realistic with his goals. Everybody else talks to much horse-sh*t.

Smithermen will sell out the city to Queens Park
Ford will sell out the city to 'old club' interests
Joe pants will sell the city out to the unions

Pick you poison. all will bring in the unwanted interests, just vote for whom will lead the city best.
Steve replying to a comment from jildren / October 7, 2010 at 04:44 pm
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Jildren, once again pride doesn't represent the city as a whole. Most people here don't even agree with it. Only gays and straight liberals support it. It represents such a small sect of the city. Are you sure everyone knows about Toronto? Many people have no clue where or what Toronto is. It's a second tier city. London, Paris, New York are world class cities. World class cities have identities. Toronto's must be the, 'the world's largest ESL class.'
jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 7, 2010 at 06:21 pm
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in a city of 2.5 million, 1.6 in attendance is a lot of gays and liberals. Its more of a big street party for people who like to have fun and aren't homophobic. Not really a small sect of the city. Your ESL comment shows you are ignorant so i won't waste too much time. Do you have a problem with Toronto having people from all over the world represented within it? Honestly google any list of cities we are on there.
Steve / October 7, 2010 at 08:04 pm
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The 1.6 million that attend aren't all Torontonians. Most of the people that attend are from abroad. Being against pride doesn't make one homophobic. The parade does a disservice to humble gay people. It just furthers the stereotypes of gay people being ostentatious and flamboyant. There's no need for the parade in general is what I'm saying. It's just an excuse to party. No, I don't have a problem with people from other parts of the world coming here at all. If they are educated and contribute to society than I support them. What I have a problem with are the ones that come here and don't bother working because there are copious social programs that look after them. How is that fair to people that were born here? We don't get the same benefits. And there's no incentive for them to learn English. Step outside of downtown and come out to North York and Scarborough. Immigration is fine as long as they contribute, and many do, but far too many reap our white guilt mentality. Are we living together in harmony or segregated in harmony? Many immigrants choose to stick to their own people. There are so many isolated groups of people in this city that you're failing to notice.
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 8, 2010 at 09:06 am
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Yeah Steve, and Caribana does a disservice to humble Jamaicans and Canada Day does a disservice to humble Canadians. It's a celebration(economic benefit of 136M), you should lighten up and go enjoy it some time, it might just open your mind. I assure you it isn't only for gays and liberals, its for people who like to have a good time and a chance for gays who have been forced to 'tone it down' to be themself.
I worked several years in Malvern and currently work in west Etobicoke. I'm not failing to see anything. There are isolated people in every major city, its a law of averages when you have a population. It's not exclusive to Toronto and its not exclusive to immigrants. Maybe our identity is 'the world's biggest ESL class' That's an identity that I'm comfortable with and an identity that non-xenophobes around the world would respect. There are many Canada born people reaping the benefits of social programs. It seems to bother you that we help people with a disadvantage here. That's unfortunate.
Steve / October 8, 2010 at 12:57 pm
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No one on the right agrees with pride. Maybe I should have specified just gays and people on the left rather than liberals. I just don't see a purpose for it. It's seems like a cry for attention and acceptance. If you're comfortable with being a gay person than you don't need a parade or other people's approval of your lifestyle. You should be happy regardless of differing opinions. I think the ones that attend pride are just really insecure. There's no need to walk around scantily clad or completely naked. Having a party is fine but being gay isn't reason to lack class and maturity. The same can be said for straight exhibitionists. Regardless I respect your free will to do what you want.

I'm fine with the government giving help to people that actually need it, such as the handicap or mentally ill. I was referring to people such as the Tamils that arrived on that boat recently. If they chose to come here illegally then chances are very high that they're hiding something. Why should be a welcome mat to everyone in the world? They're just exploiting our pathetically lenient system. I suppose we should just accept them with open arms and overlook any possible threat they could be.
FordEatsIt / October 8, 2010 at 01:01 pm
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Don't feed Steve or Gadfly the trolls. Just sit back and wait for the epic meltdown when Ford gets sent packing back to Krispy Kreme on election night.
Christopher replying to a comment from Steve / October 8, 2010 at 01:25 pm
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No one on the right...
So Steve, you know each and every one of these folks personally enough to be able to speak out on their behalf?
Own your opinions, and unless you have relevant facts to justify your statements, don't try to pass them off on "everyone" else.
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 8, 2010 at 02:20 pm
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Yeah Steve, and birthday party's are cries for attention from insecure people and weddings are a couples way of seeking approval and acceptance. No one on the left agrees with criminalizing abortion what's your fucking point? left and right disagree thanks for the information. Also, I knew you were going to fall back on the trusty ol' Tamils. Every anti-immigration idiot I've argued immigration with brings up the Tamils once they've been shown how hollow the anti immigrant argument sounds coming from a Canadian. Side note when I read your grammar I think that you might wanna consider one of those ESL classes you love to laugh about. You should really have a read over of some of your statements, its pretty funny.

Steve replying to a comment from FordEatsIt / October 8, 2010 at 03:08 pm
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Let me gues, FordEatslt, you must be one of those guys that calls Ford a bigot yet doesn't see the hypocrisy in making fun of his weight.
Steve replying to a comment from Jildren / October 8, 2010 at 03:11 pm
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Where is my grammar incorrect, aside from maybe missing a comma here and there? Anyway, what is your opinion on immigrants/refugees that milk our system? Is it fair for someone from another country to be allowed to come here and live off welfare, never having to work a day in their life? If I chose to apply welfare the government would laugh in my face.
Steve / October 8, 2010 at 03:14 pm
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Why is it that lewd conduct is accepted at the pride parade? If I were to go for a walk downtown, naked, I would either be arrested or ticketed yet gay men are allowed to do so just because they're gay and God forbid we offend a minority. Affirmative action is such a great policy.
Jildren replying to a comment from Steve / October 8, 2010 at 04:23 pm
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My opinion of immigrants/refugees milking our system is the same as non immigrants milking our system(and believe me its pretty even if not more so on the non immigrant side). If a kid acts up in class do you put the entire class in detention? milking the system isn't an immigrants thing its a sleazeball thing and it comes in all shapes,sizes and colours. I resent this attitude that welfare scams are an immigrant thing. I've only known one person who admittedly scammed welfare and he was a white as day carpenter(under the table). Apply for welfare (well, don't, but you know) I assure you they will not laugh at you. They will expect you to look for work or take a training course to make yourself employable but they won't laugh at you and you will be accepted. White people can't get welfare is bs.

Lewd conduct? That's an opinion. I think old white guys yelling at women in front of abortion clinics is pretty lewd. why are they allowed to do that? I don't think chubby hairy guys walking around with their pecker out is lewd. The human body doesn't make me uncomfortable old men yelling at younng girls does. I do think verbal assault is illegal yet year round those old white guys yell at young girls. Anyway, you're arguing against freedom its ridiculous. If those same gay men were anywhere other than church street and it was any day other than pride they would be arrested. You sound jealous of the freedom they have, if you want, you have the same freedom to go down to pride and stick your pecker out and no one will give you a hard time I promise.

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