City
Toronto ranks among the most expensive cities in the world
This surely isn't breaking news for anyone who has more than fluttered through the city, let alone tried to rent an apartment.
A new UBS report released today ranks Toronto among the most expensive cities in the world to live in, more expensive than Paris, Los Angeles and Dubai. Excluding the cost of rent, Toronto was ranked eighth in the world, followed by Montreal.
Compared to the 2009 version of the study, both Montreal and Toronto jumped over 10 places mostly on account of the strong dollar. Speaking to the Financial Post, UBS's head of global economic research, Daniel Kalt, explained "Exchange has a big impact.... The Canadian dollar has appreciated something like 20% on the U.S. dollar."
But over and above the exchange rate, the cost of rent is a defining and problematic factor. With rent factored into the equation, Toronto comes in at ninth spot on the list, while Montreal drops behind cities like London and Dubai.
So, could this report be used as more ammunition for the cutbacks Team Ford advocates? Or is it simply another reason for all of us city-dwellers to just grit our teeth?
Photo by wvs / Sam Javanrouh in the blogTO Flickr pool
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Restaurants and groceries are no more expensive in Toronto than elsewhere in Canada (in fact, cheaper than Alberta and much of Atlantic Canada.) Clothes cost the same as anywhere else. Vancouver has significantly higher real estate values, and lower average incomes, which should place it much higher on this list.
I really don't think this is meaningful data unless you're a global citizen with access to some kind of trans-national currency and no need of shelter.
http://www.workgateways.com/working-cost-of-living.html
you know what 750 pounds equals in canadian dollars? $1,200. On average, I don't know many Torontonians paying that little for a non-basement 1 bedroom. I think the average here could be around 13-1,400 a month. that does not take into account parking, hydro and the like.
my family's weekly grocery cost has gone up by 50 dollars a week in the last year alone (just for two adults) and we eat mostly vegetarian and shop at local stores (no big box).
as well, this article talks more about cost of rent than purchasing a home which should be taken into account as well.
as well, BLOG TO, the post and the study's author discuss the impact of a strong dollar (on global markets) in relation to the ranking.
you may not experience it, but it's there for sure.
I can't speak to things such as the real estate transfer tax.
I remember going to see a "1 bedroom" listed at $1450 at the new Thompson hotel condo - 430 square feet, awkward layout, could barely fit a double bed anywhere in there. Shya, no.
The average one-bedroom in TO goes is nowhere near 1,300 or 1,400, It's about $920 a month, according to CMHC. (Not in the core, mind you. That figure is city-wide. In the core you can bump it up 100 or more, but still not $1,300.) Maybe that "average" rent will get you a crappy place, but I'm sure the same holds true in London. I don't know anyone who pays $1,200 for a one bedroom in Toronto. If you do, and it's not a GREAT apartment, you're getting ripped off.
I'm living paycheque to paycheque too, subsisting on a post-university wage slave job at about $25,000 a year. So I'm not speaking from a privileged point of view. I have a $1,600 3-bedroom around College and Ossington, split with one roommate. I know I could pay less if I were less choosy about neighbourhood, etc.
I've also lived across Canada, and have never paid less for food than I do in TO. (I assume due to population density and a longer growing season, but who knows.)
Toronto's not cheap, but it's not as expensive as London. It's just not.
Go on any apartment hunting website and limit your searches to one-bedrooms under 1000. Even downtown, tons of listings.
(Also: I personally refused to have a commute longer than an hour. I only get so much time to myself in day, and I don't want to spend 3 hours of it just killing time going back and forth.)
We live in a 790 square foot flat and were looking to expand as our family is growing - a 2 bedroom that is only 850 square feet for 1800+ hydro is the average we found. We looked for months (across the city, btw) before deciding to stay put as it wasn't worth the extra 500+ a month for us whe we'd be down to one income for a year.
add 300 a month for metropasses, 150 for telecommunications (and no frivolity - we don't pay for cable etc) and an increase to 600 a month for groceries...I'd say that's pretty damned expensive.
I don't have transport either. (If by that you mean a car.)
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I really have to question where you've been looking. $1,800 a month is way above average for a two-bedroom. 1,100 is average (though that includes basements and dumps, and I wouldn't want to see what a two-bedroom apartment downtown looks like for that little. But again, the London average you quoted above includes dumps and basements too.)
1,500 two-bedrooms are abundant, even centrally. Where do you live now?
My friend use to live outside of Central London, rent was only slightly cheaper.
Grocery shopping was fairly expensive, I went to the local Tesco, which is like in between Metro and No Frills. Entertainment, dining out, alcohol, travelling, fruits and vegetables were more expensive in London
Also, it's only expensive if your point of comparison is, I dunno, Kitchener or something. If your point of comparison is London UK, it's an eye-popping deal.
i expect to spend no less than 250 pounds/week for a one-bedroom, plus council tax, which is usually an extra 75 pounds/month or depending on your area. basically i'm gonna come home broke. which is way more expensive than my killer 2 bedroom, third floor apartment in the annex. with a dishwaher and deck. $1200 + utilities people. i dunno who's ripping the rest of you chumps off, but serves you right.
there are, however three things that are cheaper annnd better in london:
beer
chocolate
international travel
(note to self proof-read before posting)
kind of implies that anyone paying less simply has low standards. perhaps 'complete snob' is harsh but the point remains
if you take toronto's average income, it's pretty damn low compared to the cost of housing, rent, and groceries.
granted, not everyone who lives in NYC or london makes a bag of money but there are more people who make more money in those cities, which (semi) justifies their higher rents.
not so in toronto - hence why we rank higher than london, singapore, hong kong, etc.
i am living in very small bachelor apartment near y/e and paying $970. I think when i looked 1b here went for $1100 and 2b for ~$1200.
Anyway, I really don't think this study is very meaningful. There are a million of these surveys and studies and they all have wildly different conclusions because the methodology is always different.
This list is useless and only for companies to muse and hum over. if a firm is choosing between a list of desirable large and mega cities it will be pricey as hell regardless where they settle. These list must be great for mid sized cities to make a pitch for there affordability compared to the big dogs like London, Chicago, Paris, Toronto etc.
Why does Toronto still stink when it's so cheap! :D
~$4 for a sweet red bell pepper (WTF?!), Milk that's 1.50 to $2 more expensive than No Frills, Cabbage $3-4, etc. On top of that, the selection of products isn't all that great.
And downtown its hard to get a take-out meal for under $7. I mean a simple Burrito (wrap, beans, rice, meat, etc.) can cost up to or over $10. Its nuts.
It's not like this study was done in a vacuum. Dozens of these come out every year and they are pretty consistent about one thing: Toronto ranks amongst the most expensive cities in the world - that is something we should all be outraged about. With all the abundant land, water and resources we have in Ontario, let alone the rest of Canada, the fact that we are in the same leagues as Paris, London, New York, etc. is a farce! I doubt many people on this thread have travelled much, but let me say, the more you do, the smaller and more ridiculous Toronto becomes.
I've been flamed for saying this before, but I will repeat it because I stand by it: Toronto has L.A. traffic, New York prices, transit that would be the envy of a 3rd world country and taxes to rival Scandinavia. Not all of these issues are Council's fault or even within their realm to fix, but this city is circling the drain and while the usual suspects cry about lack of bicycle lanes and free Metro Passes for students, real issues are going to implode this city like a bug on a windshield.
Rent tends to be commensurate with property values, meaning that mortgages in London/Paris/NYC are higher than Toronto, along with rents. If you think Toronto has New York prices (at least as far as real estate) your perspective is warped.
Toronto is not one of the most expensive cities in the world. It is quite cozily in the middle of the price rankings, pretty much where it is in all other respects. If you believe otherwise, you are ignoring facts. FACTS.
Toronto is waaaaay cheaper, I think, because of its proximity to the US. Australia highly encourages buying Australian products but it's just easier and cheaper for Canada to import all the American goods. It makes a huge difference in buying everyday things.
Re: London. In 2001, I learned that everything in the UK is priced the same as in the States, it just simply had a £ instead of a $ at the front.
I'd also like to point out how relevant it is how much people are paid where they are. It's obvious to mention it but minimum wage in the UK is like £5.50 and in Australia it's at least $14, but most people won't take a job unless it's upwards of $18. That said, when you make $18 an hour, going for a $18 cocktail isn't so bad, but still hefty.
And then there are all the social benefits of the national and municipal governments, so...
For the record, I don't have a mortgage or kids, but more people in this city do than those who are renting and don't have kids.
But, hey - let's have this debate degenerate into another 'suburbs/cars = bad; downtown/bicycles = good' debate. Facts are much more uncomfortable than hurling insults.
Are the "nice" apartments with low rent that people are referencing apartments that are newly moved into? Are they apartments that were passed on from other friends or family? As someone who was recently searching and got a "hook up" through a friend I am paying $1125 for a main floor one bedroom at Ossington and Bloor. The landlord wanted to charge $1300 but my friend talked him down.
This study is talking about the last year and there has definitely been a huge hike since i was last looking. The apartment I am leaving is a small one bedroom in a 100 year old complex and that was $1000 at Lansdowne and Bloor.
AND WHO CARES IF YOUR/OR SOME CITY IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN OTHERS?
Theres still be people living everywhere.
It's just a perferance that matters, if it a bit more expensive here then you work you're ass more.
And I prefer living in Toronto over London, cause it more suitable for me.
If you don't care "IF YOUR/OR SOME CITY IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN OTHERS?", then why read this article?
we live in the west end and have looked from bathurst to kipling, the lake to north of st. clair and for 1500 + utilities we've found the same square footage or a bit more (Say 100 square feet) for a 2 bedroom. there are also a lot of "two bedroom" units that are, in fact, one bedroom plus hallway nook. there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there. we have friends that pay 1400 for a 2 bedroom at queen and niagara but they have so many issues with maintenance, neighbours, noise etc that they are looking to move.
i'm not willing to commute 1 hour+ a day to live in deepest etobicoke, where, often, without a car, grocery shopping is near impossible (big box grocery stores etc).
also keep in mind that cost of living has gone up (even more so because of HST this year) but salaries are not. we've definitely felt the hit and have a better family income than we did 2 years ago.
My girlfriend just found a gorgeous and large-ish twp-bedroom just north of High Park for 1400 all inclusive. And I love my 1600 three bedroom in Little Italy. So they're out there.
Again, gotta disagree with Ruthless. There's the salary you CAN earn in the UK and the salary most people DO earn. Anyway, since all the other former London dwellers seem to disagree with you, I'll defer to them.
I've had 4 friends return from moving to Vancouver and one of the reasons each of them cited was the one of the same reasons I left (beside it being just plain old boring), and that it was way too expensive - even ignoring rent. Groceries are at least 35-50% more, gas more, eating out more, drinking out more and when it comes to travel, if you think you're in a bind here in Toronto when we're so close to NY, Boston, Philly, and respectively, Europe, just try finding a decently priced flight to anywhere but Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Even flights to Asia are only about $200 more from Toronto.
People who complain about Toronto being expensive are fools. You can live here, quite comfortably, as a single person, on minimum wage.
Look at the residents of BC. They actually convinced the government to have a referendum on the tax! People in Ontario are way to complacent to do anything like that.
We'll just keep on paying, and when they raise taxes and prices, we'll just keep paying more.
Instead of complaining about how the cost of living is so expensive, do some thing about it!
Otherwise, just shut it and keep paying up.
it would take too long to list all the various aspects that make it cheaper to live here... but i know that living on $60K in toronto is nowhere near as enjoyable living on £37K here. travel is accessible (and i mean global travel, and more than once a year!!!). more time off work (paid). much lower property tax. lower university fees. used car market is there. and virtually everything you can buy, you can buy "on offer" (on sale) every single day AND have it delivered to your home for free, anywhere in the country.
toronto is a very inward looking place and for the most part, is largely overlooked by the rest of the planet. sure peeps have heard of it and regard it highly, but it doesn't really have much impact. trust me. a great city in many ways (ethnically, aesthetically, creatively) but it isn't the centre of anyone else's universe. having come back a few times over the years and seen it changing, it astounds me to think how peeps there keep on spending and buying even though things have leaped in price (retail) dramatically over a relatively short time... it is like they don't notice how that cumulative cost is doing to their overall ability to enjoy a good life (save, travel, eat, dine, shop, etc). It's shrinking and most folks can't see it.
I find this way off, what are you buying salad? even then fruits and vegetables are way more expensive in London. Also inlcuding 2 bottles of GOOD wine; from what I remember, depending on deals wine goes for 4-7 pounds for cheap to average.
Excluding rent as the article states, public transport is more expensive in London, eating out is comparable, drinks more expensive in Toronto, cinema far more expensive in London.
When it comes to owning a home, London is about double the price, if you want to live within a 45 minute commute of the city centre.
However, rent in Toronto is significantly cheaper than London. I'm renting a one bedroom in Yorkville for $1550, which is exactly what I was paying for a similar sized apartment in England. The only difference is that in England I was living a 40 minute drive from downtown London, whereas in Toronto, I actually am downtown. If I were to rent a similar sized one bedroom apartment in downtown London, I would be paying at least $4000 (here's an example to blow your mind :) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/12376814?featured=1&;utm_content=featured_listing and not have any of the facilities that I have in my condo, such as gym and swimming pool. These were all additional expenses I had in England (around $70 for gym)
Renters in England also have to pay 'council tax', which for a one bedroom is around $170 every month, pus TV Licence fee and water and sewerage rates.
The fact I have to pay $30-40 a week extra for groceries and expensive internet isn't that bad all things considered.
What I have issue with is the real estate market. You have to be making 6 figures to afford anything other than a small condo.
I don't think anyone is saying Toronto on an absolute basis is more expensive than NYC, London, etc. but when on average your take-home pay is 30-50% more than in Toronto, while costs are 5-25% more mean you still come ahead. And as a lifelong Torontonian, I don't think anyone would deny costs here have soared in recent yrs from taxes, etc. I've been multiple times to all the so-called "global cities" (Tokyo, NYC, London, HK, etc) and let's be honest, what you get in those cities is worth a premium...and now that premium is shrinking and actually reversed if you actually work there. The best apples-to-apples comparison is probably Chicago and that city is amazing and cheaper. (and yes anyone would agree that Vancouver is more $$$ especially since they have lower incomes, but then again Vancouver is considered the most over-priced city in the world!)